DICE cooling

[sno.lcn]

You can find good deals on used DI/LN2 pots. For DI, you'll want something that's easy to fill and holds a lot, like the Tek you posted above. I see some good deals pop up at OCN from time to time, I think a lot of those guys buy a bunch of cooling gear, and then decide they don't like it and quit.

For cooling RAM, just put a fan on it. With GPU core frozen, the RAM will stay cool. For VRM you can just find a heatsink that is about the right shape, and use zip ties. Or find another stock heatsink, and cut the VRM part off.

For safety, use grease in the PCIe slot, but not too much. Vaseline works well and is easy to remove afterwards. Paper towels under the card to catch any falling condensation. If you want to be able to remove it easily, use silicon conformal coating on the entire card, without covering the GPU core, the tops of the RAM, or VRM stuff that you want to cool. I usually use acrylic though, since Fry's always has it in stock. I also put a good coat on the motherboard around the PCIe slots too.

You have more control and fun with LN2, but DI is super easy for learning, since you just drop to -70 and keep it there. If you only have access to bricks of the stuff, it sucks breaking it up though. I always wrapped the blocks in a towel and smashed it against a concrete floor, picking out the small pieces, and then doing it again until it's all broken up.

Hope this helps!

 

[Nicholas Peyton]

You can find good deals on used DI/LN2 pots. For DI, you'll want something that's easy to fill and holds a lot, like the Tek you posted above. I see some good deals pop up at OCN from time to time, I think a lot of those guys buy a bunch of cooling gear, and then decide they don't like it and quit.

For cooling RAM, just put a fan on it. With GPU core frozen, the RAM will stay cool. For VRM you can just find a heatsink that is about the right shape, and use zip ties. Or find another stock heatsink, and cut the VRM part off.

For safety, use grease in the PCIe slot, but not too much. Vaseline works well and is easy to remove afterwards. Paper towels under the card to catch any falling condensation. If you want to be able to remove it easily, use silicon conformal coating on the entire card, without covering the GPU core, the tops of the RAM, or VRM stuff that you want to cool. I usually use acrylic though, since Fry's always has it in stock. I also put a good coat on the motherboard around the PCIe slots too.

You have more control and fun with LN2, but DI is super easy for learning, since you just drop to -70 and keep it there. If you only have access to bricks of the stuff, it sucks breaking it up though. I always wrapped the blocks in a towel and smashed it against a concrete floor, picking out the small pieces, and then doing it again until it's all broken up.

Hope this helps!

Thanks for your post, yes that was helpful . thanks

It's difficult to start out in this business it seems.

I can't access the marketplace yet at hwbot or overclock.net (despite having over 500 posts there and a good reputation count).

 

[sno.lcn]

But you can access the marketplace at OCN if you log out first, then when you see something you want, log back in and PM the seller

I think I've always had access at hwbot, so I don't know what the requirements are there.

 

[Nicholas Peyton]

But you can access the marketplace at OCN if you log out first, then when you see something you want, log back in and PM the seller

I think I've always had access at hwbot, so I don't know what the requirements are there.

ahh thank you, i'll try that

p.s. I read you can get down to -100c if you mix Diethyl Ether with DRY ICE (not sure of the science behind that)

I am finding it difficult to get hold of LN2 in Scotland (I live near the capital, Edinburgh)

 

[basco]

same with hwbot- log out

 

[buildzoid]

See if you can't get Mansfield Cryogenics to deliver LN2 to you. That's where I get mine.

Also for cooling the VRM just put a high RPM fan over it. It's a 14 phase VRM originally designed to power 300W+ GPUs powering a 150W. It doesn't really need heatsink on the 1080.

Make sure to insulate both your mobo and GPU really well. Running DICE you will get a lot of water. you'll want to cover the PCI-e slot somehow to prevent water running down the card from getting into it. Also I'd recommend you first just try DICE+Isopropanol. -100C tends to be around where you will see cold bugs, cold slow and other cold related issues on a GPU. With DICE + Iso you'll have like -78C in the pot and more like -65C on the GPU so there won't be any chance of issues. You can't temp control DICE like you can LN2 so it's gonna be better to go a little warm instead of too cold.

TBH I think you chose one of the hardest architectures to start subzero on. Doing a GPU also doesn't make things easier as that's generally harder than freezing a CPU of any generation. I have zero expirience with Pascal but from what I've heard there's issues with Boost 3.0 acting up and also the cards generally don't scale past 1.35V except for a few special editions.

 

[sno.lcn]

TBH I think you chose one of the hardest architectures to start subzero on. Doing a GPU also doesn't make things easier as that's generally harder than freezing a CPU of any generation. I have zero expirience with Pascal but from what I've heard there's issues with Boost 3.0 acting up and also the cards generally don't scale past 1.35V except for a few special editions.

Very good point. You can get practice video cards for super cheap and will be less painful if you kill it. Just like taking your car to the track: don't do it unless you can afford to leave it in the dumpster on the way out, or something like that.

The first thing I went cold I was young and had no money, but I saved up for a Core 2 X6800, put it into my daily driver motherboard (I think a P5E Deluxe), and I got like 3 test benchmark scores before it died. Turned out to be lack of prepping the motherboard, and I was in central FL during summer so humidity was crazy, condensation happen super fast. So I RMA'd the CPU, threw the motherboard in the trash, and learned a lot.

 

[Nicholas Peyton]

hmm maybe it would be a better idea to start on my old FX-8350 then?

I was planning an upgrade after ZEN releases, soon anyway.

I agree boost 3.0 seems to cause issues because it seems to cause issues when I use the Classified Voltage tool (even when I'm only applying small voltages like 1.1 (only 7 milli volts above stock limit of 1.093v).

I think people like Kingpin must of been using CUSTOM BIOS on the cards, which EVGA refuse to release to the rest of us, due to fear of losing their warranty with Nvidia.
(you can tell the elite guys have access to custom BIOS from the advertised screenshots, and "stock boost" data in GPU-Z reading higher than anything released to the public, yet the vendor still shows "EVGA" etc).

 

[basco]

fx 8350 loves cold+voltage and you dont have problems like cold bug-super for 1st time and moarr

did ya do thisfor vga:
http://overclocking.guide/increase-the-nvidia-power-limit-all-cards/3/

 

[Nicholas Peyton]

fx 8350 loves cold+voltage and you dont have problems like cold bug-super for 1st time and moarr

did ya do thisfor vga:
http://overclocking.guide/increase-the-nvidia-power-limit-all-cards/3/

Nope, I thought about doing it but my 1080 Classified has a 320W power limit (with 'slave BIOS' switch selected which enables 130% power limit in MSI AB ).

Nvidia's 'Founder Edition' max Power Limit is 216w (with power slider at 120%).

So I don't power throttle unless I run something like Furmark. ;-)

Someone on the 1080 owners club at overclock.net done it on his Founders Edition and the liquid metal ate away at the solder point on the resistor and his card stopped working.

I think he was able to fix it without RMA but after that, many people over there cleaned their cards up and stopped doing the mod. (relying instead on cross-flashing the "T4 STRIX BIOS) that has no power limit, no temp limit and also allows voltage up to 1.2v (107 milli volt increase over stock limit). Surprisingly the ASUS BIOS is actually compatible with most cards. It's also rumoured to have tighter memory timings.

My GPU is already sealed for use in my Sub-zero water chiller. So If I'd got the GPU pot it would pretty much be plug-n-play with the Dry Ice lol.

My mobo may hold me back with overclocking my 8350. It has an 8 phase VRM (ASROCK 990FX Killer, but I'm not sure it's a *true* 8 Phase, or the components aren't great quality).

Even with an extra dedicated 3500rpm fan attached to the heatsink on the front (with a card and putty) and a 3000 RPM fan pointing at the back of the socket (aimed at the VRM area) it still gets awfully hot. A prime95 at 4.9GHZ causes motherboard induced CPU throttling. However I don't imagine I'll be running prime95 when I'm running EXTREME, I'll be running benchmarks ;-)

If I could afford it, I'd grab both pots right now.

Got 2 people I'm discussing buying 'used' pots with. So I'll see how I get on with it.. was hoping to have something, by this time next week, (+ / - a few days) as I've got 7 days annual leave off work starting next Saturday (a week tomorrow). ;-)

Little Question
Are "slim" pots a nightmare when benching with Dry Ice? I know you need to re-fill them more but *how much more* are we talking? (It seems the slim versions are cheaper (used).)

I mean. are you constantly filling them up ever 30 seconds or are you still able to leave the slim ones for a few mins? (dry ice)?

 

[basco]

the prob is that the good dry ice pots are not so good for ln2 and vice versa
i think its not so much a problem if you have the dry ice next to you and filling every few minutes is the same as ln2. when the pot gets colder the time between the filling decreases. so yes you will have time
maybe i can look if i have apot lying around-i think i have 1 from otterauge which he used only for dry ice.
its bigger then the norm but has alu sides and only copper ground.

 

[FireFox]

You are going crazy with this Subzero thing when you can solve your problem using PELTIER, easy to use, cost a way less than a chiller or dry ice.

 

[Nicholas Peyton]

the prob is that the good dry ice pots are not so good for ln2 and vice versa
i think its not so much a problem if you have the dry ice next to you and filling every few minutes is the same as ln2. when the pot gets colder the time between the filling decreases. so yes you will have time
maybe i can look if i have apot lying around-i think i have 1 from otterauge which he used only for dry ice.
its bigger then the norm but has alu sides and only copper ground.

okay thanks for all your help, it is very much appreciated

You are going crazy with this Subzero thing when you can solve your problem using PELTIER, easy to use, cost a way less than a chiller or dry ice.

Interesting I watched the whole video... I think you'd be lucky to get -50 on any TEC the second you switch the PC on though, lol

still.. it would be a very nice experiment (to have some fun with) ;-)

I suppose running "chilled water" on the 'hot side' would also help the 'cold side' maybe get very low.

I am definitely doing the DICE (I am excited about it now) so nothings going to stop me, lol... but this TEC thing would still be a very interesting 'side experiment' for some fun ;-)

They are available on Ebay quite cheap (the biggest I could find was only a 400w model (power consumption) but with a max load (Qcmax) of 200w?. Even at stock my CPU is 125w -- so I doubt it would manage it lol -- FX CPU's can draw over 300w overclocked at 4.8GHZ (which I can achieve on normal water

 

[FireFox]

You need to buy 2 of this:

This is the same cooler that you see in the pic above, from the cooler you will need just that piece in the red circle

and need to buy one of this

You need to adapt the piece from pic #2 in pic #3

You can put the peltier cooler between chiller and CPU/GPU or between reservoir and chiller, better said, it doesn't matter in what order you put the pertier cooler, the fact is that the water will be subzero.

If i decide subzero temps that is how i will do it, i should get my Evga SR-2 Classified Board delivered on Monday and i would like to try subzero temps on it.

so I doubt it would manage it lol

once you get -50c believe me your CPU/GPU wont be able to old back that temp.

 

[Nicholas Peyton]

You need to buy 2 of this:

once you get -50c believe me your CPU/GPU wont be able to old back that temp.

very interesting ;-)

 

[basco]

its interesting but nearly nobody uses TEC for benching. there has to be a reason.

 

[silentbogo]

There are several reasons:
1) Peltier cooling is inefficient
2) Decent high-power elements are hard to find (except US, maybe).
3) Modules are rated at certain dT, so you have to actively cool the other side with something big, before you crack it.

For example, if you manage to get your hands on a 200W Peltier module, you will get a lot more than 200W of heat on the hot side of the module, which requires something huge and loud to maintain the temperature difference below 68 degrees (Like a giant H2O loop). BTW, the more the dT, the less efficient is the module.

Some food for thought:
http://www.farnell.com/datasheets/2057100.pdf?_ga=1.263975179.681908773.1483792398

Basically, the only thing they are good for, is a sub-zero screenshot at idle, or for very-very short benchmarks. That's why hybrid cooling died so fast - too expensive to make and maintain and too inefficient to do anything useful.

 

[FireFox]

Basically, the only thing they are good for, is a sub-zero screenshot at idle, or for very-very short benchmarks

If you are clever enough ( and I know you're ) you can do long benchmark sessions.

 

[silentbogo]

If you are clever enough ( and I know you're ) you can do long benchmark sessions.

DICE is easier. It does not require a >500W chilled water setup. Just a jar, bag of CO2 ice, and some insulation on the MoBo. Can be done on low budget.

I still have a pair of 60W elements, which I never used beyond small experiments (never with computers).
Hell, even Phase change is easier and cheaper (especially if you now someone who does HVAC, or fixes refrigerators).

 

[Bones]

I'll warn you to drop your DICE pieces in the pot first, then slowly add the acetone - Acetone first then DICE will awaken the infamous "Acetone Volcano" and you don't want that.
Benching Krakatoa-style isn't how it's done you know.

 

[silentbogo]

 

[Nicholas Peyton]

lol, good advice.. actually.

seems silly now, but I may of made that mistake, ha ;-)

while we're on the topic; how much acetone exactly ? (25% do)?

P.S. I was considering using Diethyl Ether.
I'm not sure of the science, but according to this page: when you combine DICE & Ether, the result is -100C.
http://www.larkinweb.co.uk/science/freezing_bath_temperatures.html

 

[Mr.Scott]

It's Ether.
If you're using this inside without proper safety measures you're going to hurt/kill yourself. Acetone is bad enough inside.
The difference is not that great. You want to go colder than -70 or so, you move up to cascade or LN2. It's smarter and safer.

 

[CAPSLOCKSTUCK]

+ 1 on the ether thing....its a very powerful anaesthetic as was proved in my school days when my mate nicked a test tube full from the chemistry lab and we all had a sniff.

 

[Mr.Scott]

+ 1 on the ether thing....its a very powerful anaesthetic as was proved in my school days when my mate nicked a test tube full from the chemistry lab and we all had a sniff.

Lol. We all did that. The slang term for it was 'Locker Room'. Used to be able to buy it blackmarket for about 10 bucks a vile.