AMD Vega Discussion Thread

[xkm1948]

Let's talk about HBM2. So Vega, at least the one held by Raja, has two stacks of 8GB in total right?

According to this: https://www.techpowerup.com/gpudb/2871/radeon-rx-vega

Vega should be 2048bit HBM2. If paired up with 1GHz HBM2 it will match the 4096bit HBM1 FuryX's 512GB/s

The thing is HBM2 have different speed tiers. If Vega comes with the already available Hynix 800MHz version, the final bandwidth will be ~408GB/s.

Best case scenario is full speed 1GHz HBM2 @ 2048bit. But that is just matching FuryX's memory bandwidth. I can see a narrower bandwidth starving Vega and possibly drag down the performance gained from improvement over GPU side.


Overclocking HBM does help improve performance for Fiji, so I am assuming the bandwidth should be of similar importance to Vega.

 

[EarthDog]

Only something to worry about for the 1% at 4K...

 

[Divide Overflow]

The FUD train has left the station.

 

[FordGT90Concept]

Let's talk about HBM2. So Vega, at least the one held by Raja, has two stacks of 8GB in total right?

According to this: https://www.techpowerup.com/gpudb/2871/radeon-rx-vega

Vega should be 2048bit HBM2. If paired up with 1GHz HBM2 it will match the 4096bit HBM1 FuryX's 512GB/s

The thing is HBM2 have different speed tiers. If Vega comes with the already available Hynix 800MHz version, the final bandwidth will be ~408GB/s.

Best case scenario is full speed 1GHz HBM2 @ 2048bit. But that is just matching FuryX's memory bandwidth. I can see a narrower bandwidth starving Vega and possibly drag down the performance gained from improvement over GPU side.


Overclocking HBM does help improve performance for Fiji, so I am assuming the bandwidth should be of similar importance to Vega.

You're forgetting the bigger L2 cache and the HBCC. The point of Vega is that it is supposed to keep as much data as possible in the L2 cache (by way of DSBR) circumventing the need for HBM. Why HBM then? Power consumption and implementation simplicity. The whole point of Vega is to be attractive to high-performance computing customers and HBM is as attractive as it gets.

On paper, Vega's HBM might not look the best but it's not the size of the RAM that matters, it's how you use it.

 

[TheoneandonlyMrK]

I don't. Cooperation with AMD has really been sluggish, chaotic and unorganized, didn't get any RX 500 samples, I had to organize my own. Going by that we might not even get a Vega review sample.

That is a poor show on amds part.

 

[Aenra]

I don't. Cooperation with AMD has really been sluggish, chaotic and unorganized, didn't get any RX 500 samples, I had to organize my own. Going by that we might not even get a Vega review sample.

Say i'm AMD and you're still W1zzard. Would i bother sending you a sample? Let me think:

"Ryzen 1800x is of limited game performance"
- because it outputs some measly FPS less than a 4core
- because techpowerup.com didn't even compare it to Intel's 8core in its """official""" review. Instead it pitted it against.. anything else really.

Now what would i think or do after that, if i was AMD.
Of course, this isn't how the game is played, they (sadly) need people like you, so may well be i'm dead wrong. But food for thought anyway.

 

[phanbuey]

Say i'm AMD and you're still W1zzard. Would i bother sending you a sample? Let me think:

"Ryzen 1800x is of limited game performance"
- because it outputs some measly FPS less than a 4core
- because techpowerup.com didn't even compare it to Intel's 8core in its """official""" review. Instead it pitted it against.. anything else really.

Now what would i think or do after that, if i was AMD.
Of course, this isn't how the game is played, they (sadly) need people like you, so may well be i'm dead wrong. But food for thought anyway.

Everyone said that... it's fact. Plus this is one of the more AMD friendly forums if anything.

 

[cdawall]

Say i'm AMD and you're still W1zzard. Would i bother sending you a sample? Let me think:

"Ryzen 1800x is of limited game performance"
- because it outputs some measly FPS less than a 4core
- because techpowerup.com didn't even compare it to Intel's 8core in its """official""" review. Instead it pitted it against.. anything else really.

Now what would i think or do after that, if i was AMD.
Of course, this isn't how the game is played, they (sadly) need people like you, so may well be i'm dead wrong. But food for thought anyway.

So you want him to lie and compare it to a platform that starts out of the am4 price range? Amd themselves said this is not HEDT.

 

[Frick]

So you want him to lie and compare it to a platform that starts out of the am4 price range? Amd themselves said this is not HEDT.

Comparing it to Intels HEDT platform was the best way to showcase the performance though.

 

[johnspack]

Please be at least 1080 level. At 1060 price levels. Bad enough I have to wait for Ryzen2 to upgrade..... Bah, I'll be waiting another gen or 2 yet....

 

[RejZoR]

Comparing it to Intels HEDT platform was the best way to showcase the performance though.

They even compared 1800X to 6900k in the Ryzen launch event. And then TPU didn't even include a direct competitor chip that costs twice as much, but performs around the same. As much as I love TPU in general and their reviews, they often have weird ways of doing things.

And I personally think all the reviewers are doing AMD injustice with all the dramatization of "uh oh games run worse on Ryzen" thing. Do they really? Apart from a hand full (of a really clumsy carpenter) that actually have a considerable difference, most are insignificant and they run with framerate high enough to be irrelevant. And for the future, core count IS the future. IPC will never increase enough to offset the fact that you can't clock cores to infinity either. Having them at 5GHz is really pushing them hard and 7700K is very close to that. Game studios will simply have to start making games more multicore aware and less dependent on just few threads and those clocked ridiculously high. Unless Intel pulls a magic out of nowhere and gives CPU's a 2x IPC boost. But I find that highly unlikely.

 

[Vya Domus]

Please be at least 1080 level. At 1060 price levels. Bad enough I have to wait for Ryzen2 to upgrade..... Bah, I'll be waiting another gen or 2 yet....

Nah mate , they should sel it for free.

People's logic : 1000$+ prices for an Nvidia/Intel product is OK it's considered enthusiast level, AMD on the other hand has to sell competing products for nothing because ?

 

[RejZoR]

That logic always baffled me. If NVIDIA sells something for 700€ and AMD releases product that matches that, in what parallel universe AMD isn't allowed to charge same amount for their product? People always have this weird illusion that just because it's AMD, they have to give stuff away basically for free. But NVIDIA, charge 1200€ away. And they'll ask for more. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

If it'll match GTX 1080Ti, then I'm willing to pay the same price. Or, if they feel comfortable setting the bar a bit lower to attract more customers, then so be it. That's competition and free market. The more there is, the better for us, customers.

 

[cdawall]

Comparing it to Intels HEDT platform was the best way to showcase the performance though.

It isn't a workstation chip, there are no workstation boards and it's not an HEDT platform. I am not surprised there is no 6900k just like there is no 5930k in the fx8350 review.

 

[FordGT90Concept]

I, for one, would pay more for an AMD card than NVIDIA because they tend to improve with age. I hold on to cards for years so AMD is far more valuable to me than NVIDIA.

Ryzen got compared to Intel HEDT because both platforms feature 8 cores.

 

[uuuaaaaaa]

It isn't a workstation chip, there are no workstation boards and it's not an HEDT platform. I am not surprised there is no 6900k just like there is no 5930k in the fx8350 review.

The 5930k was released in the 29th of august 2014 while the FX8350 was released in the 23rd of october 2012. (it doesn't take from the fact that in the TPU review it was not compated to HEDT though)

 

[Vya Domus]

I, for one, would pay more for an AMD card than NVIDIA because they tend to improve with age. I hold on to cards for years so AMD is far more valuable to me than NVIDIA.

Ryzen got compared to Intel HEDT because both platforms feature 8 cores.

If they have similar performance , I see no reason why it wouldn't get compared. Who cares if it's supposed to be HEDT or not. It's only done for the sake of performance/price metrics. Apparently in some people's opinion Ryzen is not meant for gaming and niether it is for workstation use.

 

[RustyKats]

Spot on from this Deep Dive video:

 

[uuuaaaaaa]

Spot on from this Deep Dive video:

This result is fake. I was looking on the database a few minutes after this was posted on the comment section of wccftech, and I could not find it, however there is a 1080ti with that exact same score. Photoshop is a powerful tool.

 

[RustyKats]

This result is fake. I was looking on the database a few minutes after this was posted on the comment section of wccftech, and I could not find it, however there is a 1080ti with that exact same score. Photoshop is a powerful tool.

Sure, they could all be fake. You can even fake device ids and detection with driver hacks.

 

[uuuaaaaaa]

Sure, they could all be fake. You can even fake device ids and detection with driver hacks.

At least there as a link for the previous leak (1200MHz/700MHz)... This was straight photoshop. I previously saw the video that you linked, it is interesting tho.

 

[RejZoR]

If they have similar performance , I see no reason why it wouldn't get compared. Who cares if it's supposed to be HEDT or not. It's only done for the sake of performance/price metrics. Apparently in some people's opinion Ryzen is not meant for gaming and niether it is for workstation use.

People who use Xeons for gaming are also heretics apparently... You use Xeon for gaming? YOU MADMAN!

 

[dorsetknob]

People who use Xeons for gaming are also heretics apparently... You use Xeon for gaming? YOU MADMAN!

And Why not ?
Same silicon Different SKU often Each Xeon has a direct I7 Counterpart
and certain old Xeons Overclock so well ( X56** Series for example )

 

[Frick]

It isn't a workstation chip, there are no workstation boards and it's not an HEDT platform. I am not surprised there is no 6900k just like there is no 5930k in the fx8350 review.

That is the point.

 

[FordGT90Concept]

Not found:
http://www.3dmark.com/search#/?mode.../9753?minScore=9750&cpuName=AMD Ryzen 7 1700X

This is the only legitimate one that is likely Vega:
http://www.3dmark.com/search#/?mode.../5951?minScore=5949&cpuName=AMD Ryzen 7 1800X

This result is fake. I was looking on the database a few minutes after this was posted on the comment section of wccftech, and I could not find it, however there is a 1080ti with that exact same score. Photoshop is a powerful tool.

Indeed:
http://www.3dmark.com/compare/spy/1544741/spy/1595952