Ryzen 3 Die Size

[The Riddler]

Hi guys.

1/ As far as i know, all Ryzen 5/7 CPUs are based on same chip die.(195 mm^2 size). Will the new Ryzen series(Ryzen 3) are based on the same chip?

2/If Ryzen 3s use another die, how much of area will be saved? AMD announced one CCX costs only 44 mm^2 and a possible brand new design won't be able to 1/2 of size of the recent Ryzen die. (there are a lot of another units).

3/If Ryzen 3 dies come with reduced area, should AMD disable DDR4 Channel 2? (Likely, but Wikipedia says Ryzen 3 will support dual channel DDR4 memory like its big brothers)

4/Do you think Ryzen CPUs are a little bit overpriced? They made in GloFo(AMD and GloFo are very linked companies) at 14 nm FinFET process. I don't have any idea of wafer costs and yields of the production of these CPUs but Polaris 10s are 232 mm^2 and GTX 1060s are 200 mm^2. These cards(not only GPUs, they have another components to increase the costs) are cheaper than most of the Ryzen CPUs. I know that AMD spent a lot of bucks to Ryzen's R&D, but i still think that the top models are overpriced. So:

a/Does AMD have a lot of headroom to reduce the prices?

b/Do you have information about the costs of 14 nm wafer prices, yields of medium sized(around 200 mm^2?) chips, etc.

 

[natr0n]

all ryzen chips look the same inside and out.

 

[m1dg3t]

all ryzen chips look the same inside and out.

Pretty sure they are the same, just with parts fused/disabled to segment the product/s???

 

[natr0n]

Pretty sure they are the same, just with parts fused/disabled to segment the product/s???

Yes

 

[Countryside]

No they are not overpriced its a new architecture that works well and will continue to do so.

Reduced price not likely before the next series of intel cpus come out.

 

[newtekie1]

3/If Ryzen 3 dies come with reduced area, should AMD disable DDR4 Channel 2? (Likely, but Wikipedia says Ryzen 3 will support dual channel DDR4 memory like its big brothers)

No way would they disable a memory channel.

 

[NdMk2o1o]

No they are not overpriced its a new architecture that works well and will continue to do so.

Reduced price not likely before the next series of intel cpus come out.

New architecture or not they're still not overpriced for the performance of them and compared to Intel

 

[Countryside]

New architecture or not they're still not overpriced for the performance of them and compared to Intel

You think that and older architecture would have been better

 

[trparky]

Is there any chance that perhaps Ryzen v2.0 will do away with the Infinity Fabric and do a true six or eight core CPU?

 

[m1dg3t]

Is there any chance that perhaps Ryzen v2.0 will do away with the Infinity Fabric and do a true six or eight core CPU?

Unlikely they'll get rid of it, what do you mean a true 6 or 8 core CPU?

 

[trparky]

You know, a true eight core CPU as versus two quad-core CPUs tied together with the Infinity Fabric.

 

[alucasa]

The true core and glued core was a decade old marketing trick AMD used during Athlon and Intel Netburst era (and later Intel Core Quad).

Doesn't really matter anymore.

 

[Kanan]

Is there any chance that perhaps Ryzen v2.0 will do away with the Infinity Fabric and do a true six or eight core CPU?

Probably not as it's so much cheaper to do it via CCX'es of 4 Cores each connected via IF. Just compare Ryzen to 5960X, die size vs. die size. It's so much bigger and more expensive to produce. Ryzen is relatively small for a 8 Core.

Doesn't really matter anymore.

It does, that's why Intel CPUs don't have downsides in gaming or other apps despite having more than 4 cores. They all use the same L3 Cache via Ringbus, they all are direct neighbors. AMD can only hope to increase bandwidth of IF to counter those shortcomings.

 

[The Riddler]

Thanks for the replies.

No they are not overpriced its a new architecture that works well and will continue to do so.

Reduced price not likely before the next series of intel cpus come out.

AMD CPUs were tend to be great values in the past. Ryzen 7 CPUs have good price/performance for many things except gaming. Even Core i5 7600 can beat them on some benchmarks(e.g Far Cry: Primal. Dunia Engine heavily depends on single thread performance)

 

[trparky]

AMD needs to do one of the following...
1. Boost Infinity Fabric bandwidth for inter-CCX communications.
2. Do away with the Infinity Fabric and produce true eight-core CPUs instead of two four-cores connected together (probably unlikely).

Until one of the two things I outlined above happens AMD will always lag behind Intel.

 

[newtekie1]

Probably not as it's so much cheaper to do it via CCX'es of 4 Cores each connected via IF. Just compare Ryzen to 5960X, die size vs. die size. It's so much bigger and more expensive to produce. Ryzen is relatively small for a 8 Core.

Agreed. Though I wouldn't be surprised if we see a bigger 8-Core CCX in the future. It just won't happen any time soon.

Although, comparing the Ryzen die size to the 5960X die size is a little unfair. Ryzen has a big advantage thanks to the processor size, 22nm vs 14nm. A better comparison would be Ryzen to Broadwell-E, but then the Broadwell-E die is a 10-Core die so it wouldn't be a fair comparison there either.

 

[Kanan]

Although, comparing the Ryzen die size to the 5960X die size is a little unfair. Ryzen has a big advantage thanks to the processor size, 22nm vs 14nm. A better comparison would be Ryzen to Broadwell-E, but then the Broadwell-E die is a 10-Core die so it wouldn't be a fair comparison there either.

Yes indeed, I took the 5960X as the nearest example, because Intel 22nm is relatively small compared to the wannabe 14nm node of GF/Samsung and 6950X not being a native 8 core.

I'd like to add that bandwidth is not the only limitation resulting into lower FPS of Ryzen in games, it's actually latency, and this is not solvable via increasing bandwidth of IF. Actually bandwidth is a non-issue for Ryzen after you go past 2666 or so on DDR4 clocks, but the worse latency - problem persists resulting in lower FPS in games.

 

[The Riddler]

According to Bits And Chips' sources Ryzen Threadripper dies cost 110-120$ for AMD:

https://twitter.com/BitsAndChipsEng...gamesn.com/amd/amd-threadripper-price-rumours

Maybe packaging is more expensive than single-die Ryzen series but looks like a Ryzen die costs about 60$.

Rough estimation= chip+cooler=80$ for AMD.

WCCFTech says Zen chips have %80+ yield.

Ryzen 7 1800X have minimum 419$ retail price. (499$ MSRP)

Looks like pretty overpriced for me. I don't ignore R&D costs but I'm sure that there's a lot of headroom for the possible price cuts.

 

[R0H1T]

According to Bits And Chips' sources Ryzen Threadripper dies cost 110-120$ for AMD:

https://twitter.com/BitsAndChipsEng/status/870388109812355072?ref_src=twsrc^tfw&ref_url=https://www.pcgamesn.com/amd/amd-threadripper-price-rumours

Maybe packaging is more expensive than single-die Ryzen series but looks like a Ryzen die costs about 60$.

Rough estimation= chip+cooler=80$ for AMD.

WCCFTech says Zen chips have %80+ yield.

Ryzen 7 1800X have minimum 419$ retail price. (499$ MSRP)

Looks like pretty overpriced for me. I don't ignore R&D costs but I'm sure that there's a lot of headroom for the possible price cuts.

That includes margins for someone like one Ingram Micro, Newegg or Amazon, transportation, packaging & marketing costs. You'd be surprised to see what AMD makes off of these, just to give you a hint I bet Apple makes more profit selling just their Ax SoC than the whole revenue stream of AMD.

 

[The Riddler]

That includes margins for someone like one Ingram Micro, Newegg or Amazon, transportation, packaging & marketing costs. You'd be surprised to see what AMD makes off of these, just to give you a hint I bet Apple makes more profit selling their just Ax SoC than the whole revenue stream of AMD.

I don't ignore retailer profits, shipping and other costs and margins. But it still looks like overpriced.

 

[R0H1T]

I don't ignore retailer profits, shipping and other costs and margins. But it still looks like overpriced.

Well looks are often times deceiving (story of every other person's life ) but they can't sell them any cheaper, certainly not when they don't own the fabs now.

 

[R-T-B]

Well looks are often times deceiving (story of every other person's life ) but they can't sell them any cheaper, certainly not when they don't own the fabs now.

Not only that: they shouldn't. AMD needs every dollar it can get in its present state.

 

[Frick]

I honestly don't understand people. Zen is overpriced garbage because games.

 

[R-T-B]

I honestly don't understand people. Zen is overpriced garbage because games.

I honestly don't understand this comment. Is it even serious?

 

[eidairaman1]

People always trying to find fault with AMD, smh, without them Intels hedt cpus would cost 3 grand, remember Intel has been price gouging up till this point.