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How sure are you about your AV ?

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FordGT90Concept

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Yup, because a lot of people don't update it and refuse to switch to Windows 10. Also a lot of businesses are still installing Windows 7 on new systems (even Windows 10) because they want one platform for everyone.
 
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WannaCry sure showed how that "I'm Mr. Smart Guy, I don't click things I don't know" has worked out... And what is that hassle? A false positive every few years?
Most AVs did not prevent machines from WannaCry, though. You come off as unnecessary arrogant and almost sound like a salesman for AV software. If machines were simply kept up to date, instead of "Mr. Smart Guy" thinking he knows better, using third party tools or messing with the registry to postpone security updates, foolishly assuming that his snake-oil software will actually protect against already known backdoors instead of adding more layers of potential attack surfaces for malicious threats, WannaCry would have done no damage at all.
 

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Most AVs did not prevent machines from WannaCry, though. You come off as unnecessary arrogant and almost sound like a salesman for AV software. If machines were simply kept up to date, instead of "Mr. Smart Guy" thinking he knows better, using third party tools or messing with the registry to postpone security updates, foolishly assuming that his snake-oil software will actually protect against already known backdoors instead of adding more layers of potential attack surfaces for malicious threats, WannaCry would have done no damage at all.
No, it's the "Mr. Smart Guy" people who come off as arrogant. @RejZoR is absolutely correct. When you encounter actual security experts, you'll find they all use AV (as I said earlier, more properly called anti-malware now).

You are right that patched systems were protected, but it's also true that the major AV players like BitDefender, Kaspersky, and Avast! had this covered from the beginning as well with their web-filtering software. Why is that important? Look at the number of people on this very forum who proudly proclaim they don't update Windows, whether it be 7, 8.1 or 10.

Just adding more food for thought, not hostility. :)
 
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Not sure if anyone read this, but Windows 7 accounted for the most affected OS from the WannaCry outbreak. Windows 7 x64 being the bulk of Windows 7 versions that was hit.
That just proves W7 x64 is still the most widely used O.S. not that it is any more vulnerable.
 

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91% of infections were on Windows 7. Windows 7 does not have 91% marketshare. And yes, that is proof Windows 7 is more vulnerable, at least to that attack. Or rather, more people using Windows 7 are careless with updates and security. Just look around this forum in Windows 10 threads about people protesting leaving Windows 7. I ran into one of these people myself outside of TPU. All I can do is shake my head and scoff at them. Welcome to the 21st century where the internet is a never ending warzone.
 
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Most AVs did not prevent machines from WannaCry, though. You come off as unnecessary arrogant and almost sound like a salesman for AV software. If machines were simply kept up to date, instead of "Mr. Smart Guy" thinking he knows better, using third party tools or messing with the registry to postpone security updates, foolishly assuming that his snake-oil software will actually protect against already known backdoors instead of adding more layers of potential attack surfaces for malicious threats, WannaCry would have done no damage at all.

They have prevented. If you're detecting binaries, how is it then suppose to "infect" anything? And that's exactly what they were doing. If you think I'm here as an AV "salesman", I couldn't care any less. Just don't come crying back here when you'll lose all your data to ransomware (not that I'm expecting any, because I know people who are the loudest now will be quiet as a mouse when they'll be nailed by ransomware).

I still preferred Windows 7 way of updating things because I had a complete control when and how I update. I've always updated as soon as updates were available, but on my own terms and not like Win10 does by just updating it and then you restart because you need to while i hurry and the damn thing begins updating (during which time you can't do anything). People who don't update for weeks and months, those are special class of idiots.
 

FordGT90Concept

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Which is why Microsoft adapted the strict policy it did with Windows 10. The best way to stop a small problem from becoming a big problem is to fix it and push the fix out to everyone. 48 hours, every running system is no longer vulnerable versus sometime never. Yeah, people get annoyed by the inconvenience and that is Microsoft's fault: not for doing it but not explaining the risks clearly and concisely what the potential consequences are of failing to update (e.g. ransomware). I think if people saw a message saying "your computer needs to restart to protect against ransomware," they'd restart immediately without fuss. Microsoft only conveys the seriousness of the situation through buried technical bulletins.
 
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I'm gonna guess that win7 has more victims because of the refusal to have the upgrade to Win10 shoved down their throats. The sole reason for win7 users to disable windows update. I dont think its about stupidity, but there is some of that involved too. Small business might have a more legitimate excuse not to upgrade due to costs, while a (work at home) neighbor didnt want to upgrade from XP because his programming software didnt work in win 7 and it wasnt updated. I shook my head at the latter thought train.:shadedshu:
 
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They have prevented.
Very few actually did.
If you think I'm here as an AV "salesman", I couldn't care any less.
Neither could I. I simply don't like your tone at times. I don't mind people voicing their opinions, but I can't stand it when people fail to accept that opinions may differ. And none of us is knowledgeable enough (not just years of experience in IT, but actual facts on the matter; but reliable data on this very topic is somewhere between scarce to nonexistant) to have anything more than an educated opinion on the topic at hand.
Just don't come crying back here when you'll lose all your data to ransomware (not that I'm expecting any, because I know people who are the loudest now will be quiet as a mouse when they'll be nailed by ransomware).
Good backup practice makes sure there is no reason to cry. And there are other means to protect your network/machine(s) than AV software, too.
People who don't update for weeks and months, those are special class of idiots.
I guess you just called lots of users here on TPU idiots. But I kinda agree, it is not the best practice and not necessarily very clever.

No, it's the "Mr. Smart Guy" people who come off as arrogant. @RejZoR is absolutely correct. When you encounter actual security experts, you'll find they all use AV (as I said earlier, more properly called anti-malware now).
I've been working with quite a few in recent years. None of 'em was very fond of AV/anti-malware.
You are right that patched systems were protected, but it's also true that the major AV players like BitDefender, Kaspersky, and Avast! had this covered from the beginning as well with their web-filtering software. Why is that important? Look at the number of people on this very forum who proudly proclaim they don't update Windows, whether it be 7, 8.1 or 10.

Just adding more food for thought, not hostility. :)
No offense taken. And there's nothing to argue in this paragraph.
 
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Wow, there was so much more to that anti-trust cry then just the anti virus part. m$ blocked other programs from running and/or from running correctly, Netscape ring a bell?.
As I said, Microsoft was trying to rule the world - but that was not the point. The point was, they wanted to put AV code in XP from the beginning, but Congress and the EU shot them down - and for the wrong reasons and that was a huge mistake. And the politicians know that now which is why they are not threatening to break up MS anymore.

And note Avast, BitDefender, Kaspersky, Norton, McAfee, etc. aren't whining and crying monopoly anymore either - because they are getting filthy rich milking unsuspecting consumers who believe all their (and the Microsoft bashers) hype that WD is not good enough.
Most AVs did not prevent machines from WannaCry
True. But as you, me and others correctly noted several times, it would not have mattered if those users simply allowed Windows Update on those systems to update the systems.

IF Microsoft failed to patch that vulnerability in a timely manner, or the patch failed, then I think it fair to praise those products that covered the vulnerability. Otherwise, meh!

I'm gonna guess that win7 has more victims because of the refusal to have the upgrade to Win10 shoved down their throats. The sole reason for win7 users to disable windows update.
The sole reason? No way! Folks have been disabling WU ever since WU was introduced in Vista. And with W7, long before W8 came about. The W10 upgrade was just one reason for those people who felt they had to have total control.

But that was almost 2 years ago and almost a year since the nagging update icon was disabled when the free update period ended. And of course, there were tutorials everywhere on how to get rid of the Get Windows 10 icon anyway. So disabling WU for that reason was no excuse. And certainly no excuse to keep it disabled.

For the "Mr Smart Guy" who disables Windows Updates or runs without an anti-malware solution because he truly believes his experience, a degree or two, or some certs makes him smarter than the Microsoft developers and the bad guys, then he is more arrogant than smart - and likely graced with dumb luck too.

But for the "Mr Smart Guy" who really is smart and disciplined he (or she) can greatly minimize (but not totally prevent) the risk of infection when not using an anti-malware solution - but as noted way back in post #19, that still requires keeping Windows updated in a timely fashion, staying away from illegal activity, and avoid being click-happy. But only if he or she is the only user of that computer and on their network. And they still need a bit of luck too.

I can understand some folks "delaying" installing updates for a few days while they "listen for fallout" in the oft chance an update starts breaking things. But 2 months? Or indefinitely? That's just not smart.

Yeah, people get annoyed by the inconvenience and that is Microsoft's fault: not for doing it but not explaining the risks clearly and concisely what the potential consequences are of failing to update (e.g. ransomware).
And Microsoft is listening. It is simple to schedule reboots during your own "off hours" - like 3:30AM. I never get interrupted with update notifications or requests to reboot. And after you install the new Creators Update in W10, you can delay installing updates for up to 35 days if you really want. You can also tighten even more "privacy" settings - such as location settings and more.

But people really do need to understand and accept the difference between privacy and security. The difference is huge! Microsoft protects our security and is no where near the biggest threat to our privacy. Now that our illustrious leaders in Congress have rolled back the FCC's regulations protecting our privacy by allowing ISPs to sell information about our online habits, we have no privacy any more. For privacy fanatics, Microsoft is not your enemy. Your ISP, Google and Facebook are. And maybe your elected representatives too. :(
 
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WannaCry sure showed how that "I'm Mr. Smart Guy, I don't click things I don't know" has worked out... And what is that hassle? A false positive every few years?
I'm sorry, should I be "Mr. Smart Guy" that installs crap on their machine? Over 10 years.... No issues. Not going to change now. Even if I got some crippling virus, so what. Wipe clean, start new. Smart people keep their PC's up to date and don't bother with A/V's that are worthless and just there to make money. Seems dumb for a gaming PC.

At work, I use a bunch of A/V's not for protection but for an outlet to complain to when their software doesn't work and I need to hold someone liable.
 
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Smart people keep their PC's up to date and don't bother with A/V's that are worthless and just there to make money. Seems dumb for a gaming PC.
I think smart people still use A/V programs - just not the worthless ones there to make money. And of course, smart people keep current backups.

I don't see how a gaming PC makes any difference - assuming it still connects to the Internet, and downloads updates for the games. Gaming sites can be hijacked and turned malicious too.

It's not the function of computer that matters. It's if it connects to a network that has Internet access.
 
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I could get hit by a truck but I don't go around wearing protective gear. If you or anyone else feel safer using one, by all means use one. There's other ways of protection in terms of financials and identity that work very well that I use. Well.. that I've paid for, never had to use yet.
 
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I want to back up a tiny bit to clarify what I said in my last reply.

After thinking about this further, I don't want it to appear as though I am saying smart people don't use the expensive anti-malware solutions. Or that only those not-so smart do.

You can be extremely smart/intelligent but know nothing about computer security or the threats out there. Also, there are some extremely smart and very clever people in marketing working for these expensive anti-malware providers intent on getting you to subscribe to their products with those recurring annual money making fees.

A person does not have to be dumb to be duped by a clever marketing scam... err... scheme.

And the expensive solutions do work - an important fact not to be dismissed.

That said, it would be "ignorant" to not use an anti-malware solution if you did not consider and prepare for the risks. Ignorance does not imply stupidity - just a lack of knowledge of the facts. If you do your homework, keep your systems updated, keep current backups (and know how to restore from them), then running without anti-malware may be fine for you.

I would and do still advise using at least a basic anti-malware solution like MSE/WD and Windows Firewall - especially if you are not the only user of your computer, or there are other users on your network - unless you know for a fact those other users are more knowledgeable, experienced and disciplined than you.
 
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Good advice.
 
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Learn to use/configure ublock origin. If you are intelligent enough you can get away without any AV software.

I dont use AV anymore. If there is an emergency malwarebytes.

I'm sure Bill_B will blow a gasket.
 
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Not blow a gasket, but I think it ill-advised to think uBlock Origin is all you need. Malware can enter your computer via other means besides your browser - as an email attachment for example. Or via downloads.

I don't use uBlock Origin. I use Adblock Latitude with Pale Moon, my default browser. And Adblock Plus with IE and Chrome but I can't remember the last time I called Chrome up. As noted before, Google is too big a privacy abuser. Well, I have uBlock Origin with Edge, but I don't use that either.
 
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Used to be a palemoon user it got so far behind and had issues with html5 so bailed on it. I use FF 64 now you can disable telemetry in the options.

Email and downloading you eventually know/learn whats legit and where to go to download.

This is good too.
http://winhelp2002.mvps.org/hosts.htm
 
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No, it's the "Mr. Smart Guy" people who come off as arrogant. @RejZoR is absolutely correct. When you encounter actual security experts, you'll find they all use AV (as I said earlier, more properly called anti-malware now).

You are right that patched systems were protected, but it's also true that the major AV players like BitDefender, Kaspersky, and Avast! had this covered from the beginning as well with their web-filtering software. Why is that important? Look at the number of people on this very forum who proudly proclaim they don't update Windows, whether it be 7, 8.1 or 10.

Just adding more food for thought, not hostility. :)

I think the only arrogance here is those saying their way is the highway, and that's certainly not me. My way works for me, but it's certainly not for mainstream or unstudied people in this subject matter. I'm not claiming anything else.

At the moment rtwjunkie (and let me preface this by saying that I have nothing but respect for you) the only ones I see selling their way as the "only" way is the antimalware crowd.
 

rtwjunkie

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At the moment rtwjunkie (and let me preface this by saying that I have nothing but respect for you) the only ones I see selling their way as the "only" way is the antimalware crowd
I understand your view and respect it. It's not a my way or the highway mentality, but a self preservation mentality. It's the people who think they are smarter than the bad guys, and are basically lucky, who will eventually get infected. Maybe before they know they are and take their reinstall steps, they can potentially spread that infection around. I just see it as a little selfish. We are part of a worldwide web, and I feel have a responsibility to keep others safe.

It's also why I am against people continuing with XP, unless they are completely offline. So yeah, those that don't use any protection are welcome to follow their procedures. Invariably, the tone of many (not you) comes accross as haughty as they join various threads and pronounce how awesome and careful they are, and imply that those of us who use protection are stupid. Hell, one said it in this very thread.
 
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I'm sorry, should I be "Mr. Smart Guy" that installs crap on their machine? Over 10 years.... No issues. Not going to change now. Even if I got some crippling virus, so what. Wipe clean, start new. Smart people keep their PC's up to date and don't bother with A/V's that are worthless and just there to make money. Seems dumb for a gaming PC.

At work, I use a bunch of A/V's not for protection but for an outlet to complain to when their software doesn't work and I need to hold someone liable.

Ransomware aren't dumb worms and trojans where you just start with clean Windows. When it screws your data it screws it for good. Not all have fatal design flaws where you can decrypt it easily or shut it down. Some are irrecoverable. There is no "wipe, start clean".

AV's worthless and just there for money. Ok mr smarty pants, how is for example avast! there only for money when it's free? It LITERALLY costs you NOTHING. Same for AVG, AVIRA, Panda Free, Bitdefender Free. Pairing any of these with extra RansomFree which is, you haven't guessed it yet, also free and literally costs you nothing. Efficiency, VERY HIGH.

Think whatever you want, but your fully updated system is like car with really good brakes. Mine with good AV also has lane assist, 8 airbags, emergency auto braking and all sorts of sensors to detect threatening situations. Yup, car analogy still works.
 
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I use Norton Antivirus Basic, and I got a popup a few days ago saying that I didn't have to worry about WannaCry because Norton was on top of it and had been extensively testing and patching the software to make sure it couldn't get through. I'm not particularly worried.
 
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Ransomware aren't dumb worms and trojans where you just start with clean Windows. When it screws your data it screws it for good. Not all have fatal design flaws where you can decrypt it easily or shut it down. Some are irrecoverable. There is no "wipe, start clean".

There always is if you have offline backups.
 
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