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F 35 and MIG 35 at Paris Airshow (vids)

Norton

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Let's keep thing civil here please- geopolitics and other drama is a sure fire way to get this thread closed.
 
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The MiG-29 has been beaten even by the Su-27, i don`t know if it has any air to air, confirmed victories. That is why most countries buy the latter.
 

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US Air Force resumes F-35A flights despite not knowing why pilot oxygen systems failed

The US Air Force has today restarted flights of F-35As that were grounded by oxygen supply problems, even as it admits that it still doesn’t know what caused the life support systems to malfunction.

The USAF’s 56th Fighter Wing, based at Luke Air Force Base in Arizona, grounded their aircraft last week after five pilots reported experiencing symptoms of hypoxia – lack of oxygen – while airborne.

In all cases the pilots of the single-crewed fighter jets were able to continue flying by using their backup systems, before landing.

“No specific root cause for the physiological events was identified during recent visits from experts,” said the USAF in a statement.
 

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True, outside of detection range, the F 35 will score more kills on the MIG, but the problem is when the MIG does manage to get close. The F 35 will not be able to get away. But then again, I really don't see the F 35 being used as a front line fighter. But more like an attack aircraft or a stand off fighter. The Raptors will be doing our dogfighting for the most part. This how I believe F 35 will be used (fast foward to the 34 min mark)-
When the F-22 participated in simulated dog fights, it actually was pretty easy for Eurofighters to kill it. F-22 is a very large, very heavy plane where the Eurofighter is more like the F-35. Additionally, when an F-22 thrust vectors, it can end up slowing it's velocity to near zero which makes it a sitting duck for any aircraft pointing at it. F-22 needs new, better tactics to take advantage of thrust vectoring without making itself easy prey. F-35, on the other hand, should be able to maneuver like any average fourth generation fighter.

Theoretically. Pilot's abilities are much more important. Besides, Russians have developed years ago radars that are extremely effective against stealth, so F-35 has very little chance against Mig-35 or some other 4++ gen fighters like Eurofighter Typhoon. The system was tested in former YU when they easily shot down an F-117 and continued in Syria when SAA shot down an F-22 with export S-300. This wasn't reported by our media.
F-22 has a far smaller RADAR cross section than the F-117. Syria did not shoot an F-22 down. If they did, name the tail number that was intercepted. I can find no records of it happening.
 
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Why do you people ignore the fact that beside the USA, no other country has the ability to coordinate and offer information to it's air force in real time like the USAF. The multitude of E-3, E-8, drones, satellites and other communication and control assets. Not to mention logistics and the availability of PGMs and modern munitions on a large scale.

Other countries might have better pilots and even better planes or weapons, but put them all together and they are not as effective as the USAF on a large scale war.
Just look at the failure that was the deployment of the Kuznetsov to Syria, 2 MiG-29K lost in accidents in a few days, they fought off conventional runways for the remainder of the deployment.
 
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When the F-22 participated in simulated dog fights, it actually was pretty easy for Eurofighters to kill it. F-22 is a very large, very heavy plane where the Eurofighter is more like the F-35. Additionally, when an F-22 thrust vectors, it can end up slowing it's velocity to near zero which makes it a sitting duck for any aircraft pointing at it. F-22 needs new, better tactics to take advantage of thrust vectoring without making itself easy prey. F-35, on the other hand, should be able to maneuver like any average fourth generation fighter.

Huh??? The Raptor kills Eagles before the Eagle even knows it's there in simulated battles with the F-15, which dominates all other fighter jets in the world. That Eurofighter won't get close enough to kill the Raptor 99% of the time. I'll just let the pilots speak about the Raptors abilities-

EDIT:
I just thought of this also. Imagine adding about 120-150 (this is a guess based on it's size compared to the size of current manned US Navy aircraft) of these per CVN in the area. 5-10 F-22, 15-20 F-35, and 250-300 weaponized stealth drones. There is no current Air Force that could deal with that without using an EMP (which would also damaged their infrastructure).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northrop_Grumman_X-47B

And then, on top of that, since they are drones, if need be, once their weapons are depleted, they can also be used as a missile themselves, Kamikaze style (but without sacrificing a pilot) Yeah, I'm talking out my ass now, but it's not like it couldn't happen if needed to.
 
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Why do you people ignore the fact that beside the USA, no other country has the ability to coordinate and offer information to it's air force in real time like the USAF. The multitude of E-3, E-8, drones, satellites and other communication and control assets. Not to mention logistics and the availability of PGMs and modern munitions on a large scale.

Other countries might have better pilots and even better planes or weapons, but put them all together and they are not as effective as the USAF on a large scale war.
Just look at the failure that was the deployment of the Kuznetsov to Syria, 2 MiG-29K lost in accidents in a few days, they fought off conventional runways for the remainder of the deployment.
USA shares much of that technology with other NATO members. NATO members coordinate a lot in theaters of war.

Huh??? The Raptor kills Eagles before the Eagle even knows it's there in simulated battles with the F-15, which dominates all other fighter jets in the world. That Eurofighter won't get close enough to kill the Raptor 99% of the time. I'll just let the pilots speak about the Raptors abilities-

EDIT:
I just thought of this also. Imagine adding about 120-150 (this is a guess based on it's size compared to the size of current manned US Navy aircraft) of these per CVN in the area. 5-10 F-22, 15-20 F-35, and 250-300 weaponized stealth drones. There is no current Air Force that could deal with that without using an EMP (which would also damaged their infrastructure).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northrop_Grumman_X-47B

And then, on top of that, since they are drones, if need be, once their weapons are depleted, they can also be used as a missile themselves, Kamikaze style (but without sacrificing a pilot) Yeah, I'm talking out my ass now, but it's not like it couldn't happen if needed to.
These may be the only F-22’s Achilles’ heels in a dogfight against 4th gen fighter jets
Apparently along with the Rafale, one aircraft which proved to be a real threat for the F-22 is the Eurofighter Typhoon: during the 2012 Red Flag-Alaska, the German Eurofighters not only held their own, but reportedly achieved several kills on the Raptors.
Farnborough 2012: "Yesterday we had Raptor salad for lunch" Typhoon pilot said after dogfighting with the F-22 at Red Flag Alaska

The Rules of Engagement likely demanded a dogfight where F-22 isn't at its best. Consider the F-22 has limited payload while maintaining stealth, this kind of engagement isn't impossible.
 
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Eating too much propaganda?

Engines are utter fail, PAK-FA is delayed because of that, they lack the skills to make the blades that doesn't melt at the needed thrust output. Since I last checked average engine service life is two times more for US/EU made engines versus Lylka and Klimov. Nothing has changed metallurgy wise. They burn faster as they need more thrust to achieve supercruise and thus the hurdle again.

China didn't steal what can't be stolen as Russians simply doesn't have the tech. Making monocrystal blades ain't a childs play. Also trying to make something and calling it monocrystal also judging by the facts kind of doesn't work. Chinese buy their engines from Russians for their 5th gen fighter tests, yet they fail creating their own just to fulfill gen5 needs, while Russians still doesn't have a working 5th gen engine themselves, like 30 years already, ain't it? That F* kolhoz has never ceased to be.
Nope. But seems that you do. Hollywood movies are far from the reality.

Engines that were on T-50 prototype were the first, initial version which was designed to power cancelled project Mig 1.44. Newer engines are already there, with better dry & wet thrust compared to F-119, but seems to me that they lack funds to put them into production. Service life for new Russian engines is practically the same as for new western ones and I don't know ehere you pulled from that info. Let's not forget that Russia doesn't maintain the engines after every flight like USA does, so naturally, engines service life will suffer. Older and even modern Russian engines have pretty much the same service life as their western counterparts. For Instance, F-100 on F-16C has service life of 1000 house, while initial AL-31 on Su-27 had 1500 hours. Most modern Russian engines such as RD-33MK on Mig-35 have service life of 4000 hours which puts them above their western counterparts, even if you don't like that fact.

Chine stole much of the stealth technology from cancelled YF-23 and crappy F-35, while their WS-15 was made thanks to stolen data from AL-41 variants. Since it's confirmed that Russia has the technology for making monocrystallite blades, it's ridiculous to claim otherwise. As far as I know, monocrystallite blades are the least of a problem for Russians to make a powerful engine for their 5'th gen fighters. Funds are much bigger problem for them. They developed various fancy technologies which were beyonf anything west (USA) has, but eventually abandoned them because they were too expensive and not cost efficient according to their doctrine.

Practically rubbish. Tactics and information is the most important product, the pilot is only the executioner, also much more assisted by fly by wire controls (exactly this control doesn't allow MIG also the latter simply retrofitted designs marked 4++ to turn at G9).
You watch too much Hollywood movies.
Both countries have more advanced field information, so it depends on tactics and pilot. Even with good tactics and plenty of information an the battlefield, without a good pilot you will not be able to do much. That's why Russian, US and Chinese pilots train much more than, for instance, Syrian, Libyan or other pilots who neither have capabilities (funds) nor advanced weaponry.

Too much TV. Propoganda does a lot of fake news... lol
That might be partially true, since there was very little information about that. Nevertheless, US gvt would deny the incident if it happened, just like they deny many other things untill proven otherwise. If your most advanced aircraft gets hit, I think that pretty much every government would try to hide or deny that. At the moment, and I think that was somewhere in the summer 2013, Syrian and Jordanian sources said that they shot down 4 Tomahawk missiles and that F-22 crashed near Syrian-Jordanian border likely due to being hit by SAM. Syria at the time did have at least one S-300 battery, which is capable shooting down an F-22 and other stealth aircraft. If you like, it's not capable according to Hollywood movies and some propaganda articles, but in reality it is. Even a few western military experts confirmed that. I remember that after the alleged incident USA stopped illegal military activities in Syria, so all this could make sense or at least make you think twice.

Eh, I can't find any information on it. Find it very hard to believe that the first air kill of a Raptor was not made world news instantly. No Government could have suppressed that information throughout the whole world.
Look the answer above.

Let's not forget how fast we (the USA) completely destroyed Iraq as well. I joined the Navy at the beginning of that war, and it was over before I got out of boot camp.
Completely true, along with 3 million civilian casualties due to direct or indirect (eg. DU poisoning, there's a documentary and many documents confirming that) involvement. The best technology Saddam had were export (downgraded) Soviet models with poorly trained crew. This is no match for any modern army - let's keep it realistic.


F-22 is certainly a fancy aircraft with many modern technologies, but it hasn't met any modern adversary with well trained pilot in combat. F-35 the other hand is an utter garbage. Even western analysts confirmed that, despite that's not in the interests of US military-industrial complex which will greatly from this program that was primarily funded by the US citizens and nations who foolishly spend their hard earned money on such overpriced aircraft. For the price of 200+ million $ per single F-35, someone could buy 4 Mig-35's, at least 2 Typhoon's or 3 Rafale's - all of which are superior fighters and much cheaper to maintain than F-35.
 
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That might be partially true, since there was very little information about that. Nevertheless, US gvt would deny the incident if it happened, just like they deny many other things untill proven otherwise. If your most advanced aircraft gets hit, I think that pretty much every government would try to hide or deny that. At the moment, and I think that was somewhere in the summer 2013, Syrian and Jordanian sources said that they shot down 4 Tomahawk missiles and that F-22 crashed near Syrian-Jordanian border likely due to being hit by SAM. Syria at the time did have at least one S-300 battery, which is capable shooting down an F-22 and other stealth aircraft. If you like, it's not capable according to Hollywood movies and some propaganda articles, but in reality it is. Even a few western military experts confirmed that. I remember that after the alleged incident USA stopped illegal military activities in Syria, so all this could make sense or at least make you think twice.

Look the answer above.

Completely true, along with 3 million civilian casualties due to direct or indirect (eg. DU poisoning, there's a documentary and many documents confirming that) involvement. The best technology Saddam had were export (downgraded) Soviet models with poorly trained crew. This is no match for any modern army - let's keep it realistic.


F-22 is certainly a fancy aircraft with many modern technologies, but it hasn't met any modern adversary with well trained pilot in combat. F-35 the other hand is an utter garbage. Even western analysts confirmed that, despite that's not in the interests of US military-industrial complex which will greatly from this program that was primarily funded by the US citizens and nations who foolishly spend their hard earned money on such overpriced aircraft. For the price of 200+ million $ per single F-35, someone could buy 4 Mig-35's, at least 2 Typhoon's or 3 Rafale's - all of which are superior fighters and much cheaper to maintain than F-35.

Ok, first off, if a Raptor was indeed shot down, which according to what you just posted, didn't necessarily happen ( that F-22 crashed near Syrian-Jordanian border likely due to being hit by SAM ), how would the US Gov't suppress that information from getting out though news sources outside of it's control? If Syria, or any US opposed country for that matter, would have managed to shoot down a Raptor, they would have bragged about it to the world, just like when the first U2 spy plane was shot down. It would have been international news, outside of the US Gov't's ability to censor.

Saddam's military wasn't a poorly trained military. In fact they were a Soviet trained battle hardened military, and if I remember correctly, were considered the World's 5th strongest World Power, behind the UK, China, Russia, and the US (that order could be off). Iraq also had what was considered the World's strongest air defense system in place. Granted, there is a huge strength difference between the 1st or 2nd World power compared to the 5th World Power, and we completely destroyed their air defense/air force within the first 3 days. They were not a "poorly trained" military. Inadequately equipped to face the US maybe, but when they had what was considered the strongest air defense system in place, who at the time would be? We just wiped it out like it was nothing with only F-117, and then let the F-15's destroy their fighters. And now we have the Raptors.

Yes, the F-22 and F-35 are outrageously priced compared to other available fighters. And yes there are other fighters that in a up close and personal dog fight are capable of defeating the Raptors. But let me ask you this. Do you really think the US Military is going to allow those great dog fighters to get close enough to the Raptors to get that chance? Those other aircraft are not stealth, and will easily be tracked and neutralized before they become a threat more times than they will be able to reach and engage the Raptors. Let's not forget the lessons taught to the Eagle pilots. And let's not forget the Eagle's 10-1 kill ratio against all the opponents it has faced. One Raptor is equal to 10 Eagle's when working in tandem with a stand-off missile platform like a B-1R, as shown in this video at time stamp 1 hour 29 mins.


Now I'm not saying that stealth is the be all/end all weapon system that can not be defeated. But that is not the only thing the US Military has available to it. Like @droopyRO mentioned, the strength of the US Military has a lot to do with how all of it's forces are integrated together to work as one. And as of right now, no one can claim to be better in that respect. Can the US defeat Russia or China, I honestly believe yes. But it would come at such a high cost (both monetarily and in life lost), that neither country would ever fully recover.
 

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F-22 and F-35 are "outrageously priced" because they're fifth generation, not fourth generation. Bleeding edge technology has a price tag and most buyers are willing to pay it (if they can afford it) for the advantages it offers.
 
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The first one is an underperforming ridiculously overpriced piece of garbage. Literally. Pierre Sprey, a well known expert who designed F-15, F-16 and A-10, told the truth about F-35.

The other one is actually very a good fighter with excellent price tag and improved Klimov RD-33MK engine, improved maneuverability, improved radar and electro-optical systems; which at the very moment presents the best possible purchase and thus value for the money. In the world of fighter jets, it's an Ryzen Threadripper.
ergo the F35 is SKL-X :laugh:
 
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engine service life means nothing if engine/fuell controls allow it, see mig-25 mig 31 interceptors, both capable of mach 3+ one spell, and one pushes them, le: and "praying", if after pushing, the pilot can make it to "base"
more jet/small bypass turbofan powerd aircraft videos one might enjoy
 
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Images show the latest weapon testing, revealing the jet firing an AIM-9x missile while upside down.



 

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From external pylons though? Not stealthy. :(
 
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