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AMD Vega Discussion Thread

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No. In the logic of these threads, there is no logic (that is illogical itself). You may as well post a picture of banana fighting a tangerine to say if Vega is better than a beach holiday.

We just need the freaking thing released already. We know it'll make an appearance end of June in the guise of the pro card at $$$'s but the consumer version wont be out till when? July/August?

It's actually become very boring now.

Epyc Fight here! Just add beach on Vega Prime.
 

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Epyc Fight here! Just add beach on Vega Prime.

I'd thank you twice for that pic if i could! :toast:

I'm rooting for the banana, it looks like the peaceful herbivore.
 
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I'm getting that old school Duke Nukem Forever vibe here.

You too?



Back when the 1080 was released, that was a 4K card too. Back when 980ti got released, people also ran games at 4K on it - it had more than enough VRAM for it already, it has a wide bus, and it has delta compression. There is no reason it could not run 4K. And Fury X was no different either... Would it be sub 30 fps? Of course. Would you have to tweak settings? Naturally. Quite similar to the arguments you use *today* to say 1080ti is now a great card for 4K. Mmmm no. Its just the fastest you can acquire today. But its nowhere near comfortable pushing 4K either. Evidenced by its frequent, or constant drop under 60 fps which is considered smooth for gaming. Even at slightly tweaked settings. Some games don't even EVER see 60 fps at high (not ultra) settings. This is why the real evidence for 'capable' should be the min. fps numbers. Every shitty GPU can push lots of frames in the easy, low-load bits of a game. Its the variation in FPS that matters. Pascal can push massive FPS numbers, but it also falls apart fast under heavy loads, seeing 120 fps tops with dips to 30-40 fps is not at all uncommon, making 'average fps' far less relevant. You can blame GPU Boost 3.0 for that.

The reality is, 4K is still early adopters' territory. It has made strides, but its not there yet. Especially on the GPU side of things. That was the point I'm making. Its not a problem at all, just perspective.

Don't compare 980 TI to 1080 Ti.
When the first one was released you could play 4k even now you can. It's just the most games would run max 50 the dip would be enormous with some games. with 1080 Ti the dip is 40 in few games. To run 4k with 980 ti you must lower detail level pretty much to sustain 60 FPS.

I bet people can play 4k even on 1060 but please be reasonable.

For me 4K is reality. Can I have my opinion here? or is it just you that's right. You say no then I has to be no you can't. That's annoying. I wanted to share my thoughts and I did. End of the story.
 
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Don't compare 980 TI to 1080 Ti.
When the first one was released you could play 4k even now you can. It's just the most games would run max 50 the dip would be enormous with some games. with 1080 Ti the dip is 40 in few games. To run 4k with 980 ti you must lower detail level pretty much to sustain 60 FPS.

I bet people can play 4k even on 1060 but please be reasonable.

For me 4K is reality. Can I have my opinion here? or is it just you that's right. You say no then I has to be no you can't. That's annoying. I wanted to share my thoughts and I did. End of the story.

I agree , 4K performance is very much an affordable reality now. The fact that you can run most games at high settings in 4K at 30fps on a 200$ card proves that. Sure it isn't ideal but it was the same even for 1080p years ago , I remember that a GTX 280 couldn't hold 60fps in a lot of games at max settings yet it was considered very much a 1080p card.
 
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I agree , 4K performance is very much an affordable reality now. The fact that you can run most games at high settings in 4K at 30fps on a 200$ card proves that. Sure it isn't ideal but it was the same even for 1080p years ago , I remember that a GTX 280 couldn't hold 60fps in a lot of games at max settings yet it was considered very much a 1080p card.
Yeah but as you can see most people have different point of view with 4k gaming. If on a top notch card you run few games lowest 40 FPS, and most games are above 60FPS lowest that means this card is not 4k and you can throw it under the bus.
 
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Interesting tweet from S|A Charlie Demerjian:
AMD made the right call to delay Vega, trust me here. They took a short term hit for long term gain and credibility. It took guts to do.

I agree, it was smart to wait to achieve best possible launch, but the lack of communication from AMD seems to really have killed the interest for this card ...
 
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well ive seen what volta has to offer theoretically. I understand the architecture and how it works...pascal x3 throughput. AMD have added logic to vega, so it will become the most efficient gpu ever made. it looks like the card will be on par with the 1080ti, and titan xp.
quote
AMD claims that Vega’s high-bandwidth (HBM) cache controller has been rated to improve maximum frame rates by 50% and minimum frame rates by 100% over the previous generation with GDDR5. In an interview at GDC, AMD further explained that this tool increases effective memory size by mapping some into system RAM and smartly storing data on local memory.


We also know that the highest-end Vega GPU will contain the same amount of geometry engines for rendering polygons as the previous generation. However, these chips will be able to handle more than twice as many polygons per clock cycle, at 11, as the R9 Fury X’s four per clock.


This era of Vega GPUs will also ditch GDDR5 memory altogether for a new format known as HBM2, or high-bandwidth memory. AMD believes this decision will reduce the footprint of Vega graphics by 50%.


To that end, Vega chips will be more equipped to handle compute tasks than ever – specifically 8-bit, 16-bit, 32-bit or 64-bit operations in each clock cycle – the benefits of which will extend beyond video games.


Finally, AMD’s new Pixel engine will debut in Vega, now moved to a client of the GPU’s L2 memory cache. This will enable it handle graphics workloads which perform frequent read-after-write operations with less overhead on the rest of the GPU.

quote,

There’s 4096 so-called ‘stream processors’, which do the majority of the grunt work on AMD graphics cards versus the 2304 on the RX 580. Overall performance is rated at 12.5TFLOPS (trillion floating point operations per second; a basic horsepower measurement) versus 5.8 on the RX 580.

In addition, we’re looking at 8GB Of HBM2 (High-Bandwidth Memory) with a super-wide 2048-bit bus.
 
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Interesting tweet from S|A Charlie Demerjian:


I agree, it was smart to wait to achieve best possible launch, but the lack of communication from AMD seems to really have killed the interest for this card ...

They did the same with Ryzen. For a while there Ryzen News went flat up until right before Products were given to reviewers.
 
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Well, I saw another rumour that I really don't like the sound of; which is that Vega is delayed until Q1 2018.

I admittedly don't think that is likely but who knows at this point
 

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Interesting tweet from S|A Charlie Demerjian:


I agree, it was smart to wait to achieve best possible launch, but the lack of communication from AMD seems to really have killed the interest for this card ...

The same CD that has prophesized much and delivered little. I believe nothing from that web site.
I used to be on it all the time but it was full of vitriol from CD against Nvidia and he often foresaw terrible times for Nvidia.... Very wrong he was.
Also said gfx card would be dead and gone by now.

Head up his own bottom.
 

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They did the same with Ryzen. For a while there Ryzen News went flat up until right before Products were given to reviewers.
Ryzen wasn't extensively delayed.
 
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What happens when you mix RyZen and Vega Together???







Ryzen+Vega=Ryzenega=Rasengan!


lololol.jpg







OK enough joke. This is the real thing.

82b16a63c19a43cdb0989527b096c1c8.jpg
 
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the main problem I can see with vega is going to be the price. anything above 700pounds and I wont be supporting amd and ive heard and read rumors about a 1000-1500 price point. performance is meant to be on par with ti or a little better. like 70fps 4k on most titles. but then volta is coming with triple the performance of pascal. that's going to be an amazing performer. if amd don't release vega soon Nvidia is going to spoil their party. I mean isn't it supposed to of been out a month already... all the amd heads are jumping on 1070's and 1080's... if amd really blow it i'll be buying myself another titan xp from ebay.
 
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It's not gonna be that expensive. It can't be. What I still see as a problem is release time. At first they said H1. Now I've seen news about announcement of release date at Siggraph 2017. Which is on July 30, 2017. Just frigging ANNOUNCEMENT of the actual release date. How is H1 August 2017 or later!?!??!?!? If we're even getting RX Vega then. They are doing the same stupid shit they've done with R9 Fury. They've been moving release dates for so long most people just gave up and went with GeForce instead. People are sick and tired of waiting and I can't really blame them. AMD, wake the hell up. I was all hyped for grabbing RX Vega, but I'm already having second thoughts about all this endless waiting.
 
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but then volta is coming with triple the performance of pascal.

3x performance over Pascal , what do you mean by that , as in same clocks and core count ? Sorry but that's fairy tales territory. I have looked into what information Nvidia released about Volta and nothing suggests anywhere near a major performance boost over Pascal for gaming. If your conclusion is based off your observations form V100 keep in mind that's a massive die and a good chunk of it being occupied by those Tensor cores which are useless for gaming , and on top of that even if they get rid of those ( which they will ) it's still a chip with horrendous yields. That shit is going to be a a pain for Nvidia to put even in their Titan cards and still be cost effective.

Volta is a continuation of the changes they made with Pascal , more hardware scheduling for more efficient and granular compute distribution , funny enough that's what AMD has being doing for years.
 
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3x performance over Pascal , what do you mean by that , as in same clocks and core count ? Sorry but that's fairy tales territory. I have looked into what information Nvidia released about Volta and nothing suggests anywhere near a major performance boost over Pascal for gaming. If your conclusion is based off your observations form V100 keep in mind that's a massive die and a good chunk of it being occupied by those Tensor cores which are useless for gaming , and on top of that even if they get rid of those ( which they will ) it's still a chip with horrendous yields. That shit is going to be a a pain for Nvidia to put even in their Titan cards and still be cost effective.

Volta is a continuation of the changes they made with Pascal , more hardware scheduling for more efficient and granular compute distribution , funny enough that's what AMD has being doing for years.


NV had it for awhile, weakened it, i guess now bolstering it.

I honestly don't care if Vega hits desktop or not. Navi is what truly needs to be focused on.
 
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@Vya - no and no... have a look for yourself. look at the shaders. that's all your getting. do your research before you post.
tenser cores. go to 1:19

please do your research first. Vya.

that video cuts to another shot and misses the detailed description so youll still have to research it if you want to understand why it will be 3 times more powerful. have you even looked at the v100.
just re-read your post. you have probably listened to a few youtube videos. ive sat through 2 lectures on it.
quote'
Nvidia Tensor Cores The Tensor Cores in the Volta-based Tesla V100 are essentially mixed-precision FP16/FP32 cores, which Nvidia has optimized for deep learning applications. The new mixed-precision cores can deliver up to 120 Tensor TFLOPS for both training and inference applications. According to Nvidia, V100’s Tensor Cores can provide 12x the performance of FP32 operations on the previous P100 accelerator, as well as 6x the performance of P100’s FP16 operations. The Tesla V100 comes with 640 Tensor Cores (eight for each SM). In the image below, Nvidia is showing how for a matrix-matrix multiplication, commonly used in the training of neural networks, the V100 can be more than 9x faster compared to the Pascal-based P100 GPU. end quote.
you said ''tensor cores are useless for gaming'', they've renamed their shader cores tensor cores to represent their performance. they literally are the shaders ffs.
your looking for this part of the presentation. you need to watch the full unedited version. the old version of the tiny processors that make up an SM(Streaming Multiprocessor)would accept 3 operations PER CLOCK CYCLE. with the improvement the cores keep going, theres no waiting. thus the massive improvement within their shader complex. SIMPLIFIED!!!!!!!
 
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@Vya - no and no... have a look for yourself. look at the shaders. that's all your getting. do your research before you post.

Right then , point me out to whatever source from which you're getting this "3x time more performance" info because I sure as hell can't find one and like I said nothing Nvidia released even hints at that , already did my research. Till then , like I said , fairy tales.

Tensor cores have nothing to do at all with gaming ( I think we are on a different page ) , it's meant for extremely specific workloads most likely limited for use with CUDA. Look up TensorFlow to understand what they are truly meant for , definitely not meant for next gen geometry shaders that are going to replace conventional ones or anything like that. Just like FP16 , all these things are where Volta truly outperforms Pascal by a lot and none of that will make it's way to the consumer variants or they will be severely stripped down. Not that it would matter , again. You seem to be confusing things. For us it's Pascal 2.0 , no point in getting excited for 3x more performance. All the advantages it's going to carry for gaming will stem from larger dies , think of it as going from 600 to 700 series.

Fine , I'll be waiting for those 120 TFLOP "shaders" to be supported by DirectX and other graphics API's and having entire paradigms shift over night. We'll finally have ray-tracing in real time for games commonplace :rockout:. I am not going to hold my breath though.
 
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Jensen Huang mentions ray tracing is possible in real time with the v100
if anyone fancies a good read, check this out. https://devblogs.nvidia.com/parallelforall/inside-volta/
we can basically expect at least 100 fps @4K although I imagine it will be more like 140-150fps...
I base my opinion on the most up to date information. on google there are around 40sites speculating 60fps @4k for a volta gpu. I get that already with my titan xp so based on the new information around the new shader abilities and the way latencies have been reduced I stand by my original statement.
link to keynote livestream http://wccftech.com/nvidia-rumored-...cs-card-computex-tomorrow-watch-live-keynote/
 
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FordGT90Concept

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RTRT could be done on pretty much any card. The question is "how many rays?" Response is usually "not enough to look better than conventional dynamic lighting."

And no, V100 is not capable of 100 fps at 4K on any heavy game. V100 is about 13 TFLOP which is only slightly faster than 1080 Ti. 1080 Ti generally doesn't get 100 fps at 4K either.
 
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volta gpu will have 5100 shaders minimum. if I added another 2000 shaders to my pascal card what would be the improvement. ?????
i'll quote you on that FORD. sli 1080ti gets 198fps in prey @4K.
that's 7000 pascal cores vs volta's 5100 cores.
I supported amd for 10years and have bought the last two titans from NVidia so I'm not biased here either. I'm not making it out to be that much better because its a thread about vega. the fact is amd are not going to help us out bring the prices down if they don't compete. so I'm routing for amd to bring out the best possible card they can.
so no more silly responses about volta as we are just making educated guesses.

rumors about volta being held off and reup of pascal die shrink.... ^^
 
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FordGT90Concept

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Bigger chip = lower clock. Volta is compute biased (like GCN).
 
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Take the following information with some exotic martian toxic salt:


Next nVidia main line-up may be Pascal refresh instead of Volta.

http://www.fudzilla.com/news/graphics/43962-new-geforce-will-be-incremental


Well if RTG is not getting its head out of its head to compete, we may soon witness Intel's customer milking practice in nVidia(maybe it has already started, it just might get worse)
 
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