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Global Warming & Climate Change Discussion

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Ahhzz

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As much as I hate to admit it, CAFE worked. Light duty, full size pickups a decade ago would never dream of hitting 20 mpg (unless diesel). Today, most of them are 20+ highway. Most new cars are 30+ mpg. Baby diesels are starting to show up as options in pickups and turbocharged, smaller displacement engines are becoming the norm. That said, this progress is also driven by customers because of the $4/gallon scare ~2009. People know it's going to happen again, it's just a matter of when.

EPA putting incandescent bulb manufacturers out of business created a drive for CFL and LED lights which has reduced residential lighting power consumption.

Energy Star program has lead to the development of more power efficient furnaces, air conditioners, refrigerators, microwaves, TVs, and other appliances. 80plus (private, not government) has done the same for electronic power supplies.


On the power generation side of things, the wind subsidy programs have lead to power companies investing heavily in wind turbine installations around here. I think my power company has actually added all of their new capacity in the last decade in the form of wind. That said, the low cost of natural gas has mostly driven to the transition to a cleaner grid.


Even though USA keeps growing. Energy demand has remained steady or fallen. Sadly, it's not enough in terms of global surface temperatures but it's still baby steps towards a more eco-friendly economy.

I still think Freeman Dyson's path is the best the USA is going to manage (and did, as described above).

Someone I know had a client say last week "Man, I love my new SUV! Gets 44MPG!!"
She replied "Absolutely!!! Thanks Obama!!"
They walked away.
 

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Bush and Obama both tightened the requirements. Bush did most of the legal work because of a lawsuit levied against the government in 2006.

That said, did CAFE even matter? The price of fuel skyrocketing lead to increased demand for fuel efficiency, which caused a spike in sales of unibody (lighter) crossovers versus body-on-frame SUVs. 10 years ago the roads were ruled by body-on-frame SUVs. Today, there's less than a dozen body-on-frame SUVs left.
 

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.....

That said, did CAFE even matter? ......
There will never be any way to know. We can speculate. Experts can speculate. Idiots will speculate. We'll never know.
 
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This is exactly what made me skeptical about global warming / climate change when I started this thread a couple of years ago. However, there's now clearly enough evidence that climate change isn't a myth which I've experienced myself and all those reports of extreme record this or that as well as the melting ice caps and more that has convinced me. Trump is truly a deluded moron for denying this, removing all the climate change stuff from the White House website and pulling out of the Paris agreement. :nutkick:
In my area Im experiencing cooler temps than normal. We dont use global warming anymore its climate change. You didn't even read over the Paris climate deal. Its not a deal at all. It's globalist tax/theft.
 
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Remember the oceans: they take up 70% of the surface of the Earth. It doesn't take much heating of the oceans to offset cooling on land. This is why, at the beginning of the thread (referring to similar thread on the now-defunct General Nonsense), I was adamant that satellites are the key to temperatures. Over the last decade, they confirmed what was observed over the decade before, and the decade before that: each warmer than the set before it.

The only climate change we've really seen so far is the receding of the northern ice cap. The short term effect of that is cooling. The long term effect is even more heat and higher ocean levels. I don't think we've seen much in the way of actual climates changing yet that isn't arctic. Climate change means significant changes in vegetation.
 
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Remember the oceans: they take up 70% of the surface of the Earth. It doesn't take much heating of the oceans to offset cooling on land. This is why, at the beginning of the thread (referring to similar thread on the now-defunct General Nonsense), I was adamant that satellites are the key to temperatures. Over the last decade, they confirmed what was observed over the decade before, and the decade before that: each warmer than the set before it.

The only climate change we've really seen so far is the receding of the northern ice cap. The short term effect of that is cooling. The long term effect is even more heat and higher ocean levels. I don't think we've seen much in the way of actual climates changing yet that isn't arctic. Climate change means significant changes in vegetation.

I think you'll find this news interesting then, just released within the past 24 hours:
https://www.carbonbrief.org/major-correction-to-satellite-data-shows-140-faster-warming-since-1998
 

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In my area Im experiencing cooler temps than normal. We dont use global warming anymore its climate change. You didn't even read over the Paris climate deal. Its not a deal at all. It's globalist tax/theft.
I know they renamed it to climate change, but overall the planet is getting warmer, which is where the energy for these more extreme weather events is coming from.

You're right though, I haven't read the Paris climate deal and I'm not surprised that politicians are using climate change to foist various unnecessary austerity measures on the likes of us. I've seen this kind of crap in all these "green" policies being pushed out in England alone.

I'd have said that Trump may possibly have been right to pull out of it if he hadn't been such a climate change denier. However, wouldn't it be better to stay in and be part of the deal and use his influence to make it better for everyone?
 

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I briefly looked at the Wikipedia page for it and it left a knot in my stomach. It both doesn't really do anything except create a very large fund (not sure where the funds for it is coming from) and allow UN oversight of submitted, internal plans. Why the knot? It comes across me as something akin to a wiretap: UN oversight of government environmental policy. I assume the funding comes from dues paid to the UN and the UN will use that position to dangle refunds over countries. It makes a lot more sense for countries to take the initiative themselves and not pay foreign bureaucrats to dangle a carrot over their head.

I have no problems with Trump pulling out of it. Hell, if UN took that money ($200 billion/year if memory serves) and put into fusion development...need I say more? Technology is really the only permanent solution. What good has bureaucracy done anyone?

It just strikes me as odd how USA is the only UN member to not be part of it. My guess is that access to any of that $200b/yr is conditional on signing the agreement. In other words, everyone (including Obama) was effectively bribed to participate.


Edit: I don't know if this is legit but it gives a strong impression that the Obama administration tried to hide how much USA paid the UN (2010-2016):
http://www.humanrightsvoices.org/EYEontheUN/un_101/facts/?p=15

Obama lost the election and a bill got passed in the 2016 lameduck session requiring the State Department to keep track of all money sent to the UN. 2014 estimate was $48 billion. 2017, so far, the State Department is failing to keep track of it.


2012 source: US paid 22% of UN's budget 2000~2015.

2009 source, but probably most credible: http://www.foxnews.com/world/2009/09/17/budget-believe-billion.html

Two major takeaways:
1) UN's budget process is more confusing than Congress's
2) USA is UN's sugar daddy (2007 budget vote was 142-1, that 1 "no" vote was USA under the Bush administration).
 
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I briefly looked at the Wikipedia page for it and it left a knot in my stomach. It both doesn't really do anything except create a very large fund (not sure where the funds for it is coming from) and allow UN oversight of submitted, internal plans. Why the knot? It comes across me as something akin to a wiretap: UN oversight of government environmental policy. I assume the funding comes from dues paid to the UN and the UN will use that position to dangle refunds over countries. It makes a lot more sense for countries to take the initiative themselves and not pay foreign bureaucrats to dangle a carrot over their head.

I have no problems with Trump pulling out of it. Hell, if UN took that money ($200 billion/year if memory serves) and put into fusion development...need I say more? Technology is really the only permanent solution. What good has bureaucracy done anyone?

It just strikes me as odd how USA is the only UN member to not be part of it. My guess is that access to any of that $200b/yr is conditional on signing the agreement. In other words, everyone (including Obama) was effectively bribed to participate.


Edit: I don't know if this is legit but it gives a strong impression that the Obama administration tried to hide how much USA paid the UN (2010-2016):
http://www.humanrightsvoices.org/EYEontheUN/un_101/facts/?p=15

Obama lost the election and a bill got passed in the 2016 lameduck session requiring the State Department to keep track of all money sent to the UN. 2014 estimate was $48 billion. 2017, so far, the State Department is failing to keep track of it.


2012 source: US paid 22% of UN's budget 2000~2015.

2009 source, but probably most credible: http://www.foxnews.com/world/2009/09/17/budget-believe-billion.html

Two major takeaways:
1) UN's budget process is more confusing than Congress's
2) USA is UN's sugar daddy (2007 budget vote was 142-1, that 1 "no" vote was USA under the Bush administration).


I think you misunderstand the Paris climate agreement. It is a non-binding agreement with no enforceable requirements where countries come together to agree to attempt to do something for a common goal. It's essentially countries saying we have a problem and we should probably do something about it so i agree to try. It is more of a symbolic agreement which is why some complained that it didn't go far enough. The shock came where Trump backed out of an agreement that basically was just acknowledging that there was a problem, and it is to note he doesn't believe in climate change anyway so he is following his belief system.
 

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...no enforceable requirements...
Knowledge is power and the sharing of knowledge is binding. More specifically, it empowers the UN to metaphorically look over governments' shoulders. It's kind of like the difference between attacking someone outright versus telling someone "I'm going to attack you" but you won't know when, you won't know with what, and you won't know how. It's a boogey man in the closet. Whenever a signed government makes a policy decision, it no longer is about "what is best for me (which naturally includes environmental concerns)," it becomes "what is the United Nations going to approve?" This is terrible path to follow.


That said, I agree: it would have been symbolic...for the USA. USA generally doesn't care what the UN says and UN isn't really going to try to enforce anything on the USA because there goes a quarter of their funding. Trump pulling just cements what would have happened in practice.

Countries like the Netherlands can't afford to pull out because they're literally underwater. There's a lot of small coastal countries that can't either because they're convinced of a do-or-die situation. The question is: do big players like China and Russia back out because of Trump?


Edit: Example of my first paragraph (and rolling back into the previous post):
http://www.wri.org/blog/2015/12/what-does-paris-agreement-mean-climate-resilience-and-adaptation
The vast majority of national climate plans submitted in advance of Paris – known as Intended Nationally Determined Contributions (INDCs) – included not only countries’ plans to reduce emissions, but also descriptions of their adaptation goals, priorities, actions and needs.

...

Every five years, countries will review and increase the ambition of their climate plans. Countries will also submit and periodically update information about their adaptation priorities, implementation, and support needs to a public registry.

Every five years, these national adaptation communications will feed into a global moment to take stock of collective progress. National and international action will then adjust to address shortcomings and opportunities identified, thus laying the groundwork for the next cycle of adaptation action.

...

The agreement also addresses these constraints by specifying that developing countries will receive “continuous and enhanced” international support to undertake adaptation activities.

...

Increase the share of funding going to adaptation from the $100 billion in climate finance developed countries will provide each year by 2020

...

...the United States committed to double its annual public grant funding for adaptation to $800 million by 2020.

...

Perhaps even more important, negotiators now return home confident that adaptation is high on the global agenda, and with an expectation that funding will grow to match its importance.
$800 million by 2020. USA only put about a billion into fusion research in 2008, by comparison:


I love bandages to stop bleeding but, there's this wonderful thing called technology, which has developed a gel that can stop bleeding almost immediately. Fusion is the miracle cure for anthropomorphic global warming, yet we're investing in futile attempts to install pumps and raise levees instead of investing in a more permanent solution with far reaching positive consequences.

Case in point: Haiti used to be lush tropical forest but it is now relatively barren because people chopped down most of the trees to stay warm at night. If we had fusion designs that were relatively compact and affordable, and other nations invested in setting them up in Haiti, those forests would still be standing. Not only would that be better for Haitians, it would have also been better for removing carbon from (and other particulate matter) from the air. Haiti is not a fringe case either: all developing nations require a growing amount of energy. If no source of cheap, plentiful, reliable, green energy isn't available...there's always shit to burn (metaphorically and literally)...

A similar story could be told for Brazil and destruction of the Amazon forest in the name of planting corn to produce ethanol, to burn in their cars. Don't get me wrong, corn is great for taking carbon out of the air but that soil can't maintain a good corn crop for many years without heavy use of chemical fertilizers.
 
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Knowledge is power and the sharing of knowledge is binding. More specifically, it empowers the UN to metaphorically look over governments' shoulders. It's kind of like the difference between attacking someone outright versus telling someone "I'm going to attack you" but you won't know when, you won't know with what, and you won't know how. It's a boogey man in the closet. Whenever a signed government makes a policy decision, it no longer is about "what is best for me (which naturally includes environmental concerns)," it becomes "what is the United Nations going to approve?" This is terrible path to follow.


That said, I agree: it would have been symbolic...for the USA. USA generally doesn't care what the UN says and UN isn't really going to try to enforce anything on the USA because there goes a quarter of their funding. Trump pulling just cements what would have happened in practice.

Countries like the Netherlands can't afford to pull out because they're literally underwater. There's a lot of small coastal countries that can't either because they're convinced of a do-or-die situation. The question is: do big players like China and Russia back out because of Trump?

I think as a Canadian I haven't a different view of the UN than most Americans. The US is a very powerful country and its participation in the UN feels like another form of soft power and global influence that the US can take advantage of (of course not always). Even the Paris Agreement was subject to significant US influence. Now granted soft power is something that is hard to calculate.

In terms of effects your DoD seems to consider climate change to be a very significant security challenge and while the US is a wealthy nation there will still be significant cost preparing coastal cities for the changes that appear to lie ahead.


Edit: Example of my first paragraph (and rolling back into the previous post):
http://www.wri.org/blog/2015/12/what-does-paris-agreement-mean-climate-resilience-and-adaptation

$800 million by 2020. USA only put about a billion into fusion research in 2008, by comparison:


I love bandages to stop bleeding but, there's this wonderful thing called technology, which has developed a gel that can stop bleeding almost immediately. Fusion is the miracle cure for anthropomorphic global warming, yet we're investing in futile attempts to install pumps and raise levees instead of investing in a more permanent solution with far reaching positive consequences.

Case in point: Haiti used to be lush tropical forest but it is now relatively barren because people chopped down most of the trees to stay warm at night. If we had fusion designs that were relatively compact and affordable, and other nations invested in setting them up in Haiti, those forests would still be standing. Not only would that be better for Haitians, it would have also been better for removing carbon from (and other particulate matter) from the air. Haiti is not a fringe case either: all developing nations require a growing amount of energy. If no source of cheap, plentiful, reliable, green energy isn't available...there's always shit to burn (metaphorically and literally)...

A similar story could be told for Brazil and destruction of the Amazon forest in the name of planting corn to produce ethanol, to burn in their cars. Don't get me wrong, corn is great for taking carbon out of the air but that soil can't maintain a good corn crop for many years without heavy use of chemical fertilizers.

Hey now, you know I have a soft spot for technology. I actually have no idea why fusion isn't being funded more, other than for political reasons, you'd think it would be an energy sector checkmate of sorts. I actually find my graph to be much more depressing than yours:
 
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I can draw graphs about how I could make fusion if they gave me billions of dollars too.

Fuck fusion for now, Fission with breeder reactors for base load, water purification and start a electric vehicle mandate for large cities and use batteries that idiots are trying to use with solar for grid power for vehicles instead. But nah, nothing will happen and people will keep arguing about the best band-aid for a mangled missing leg, butterfly, or clear....
 

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With Westinghouse collapsing and NPPs shutting down all over the place in the USA, power companies don't have the stomach to build or expand NPPs. Natural gas is too cheap and there's too many subsidies for wind to take a renewed risk on nuclear.

The smallest NPP in the nation (250MW) shutdown a few years back and it's going to cost them $1 billion to decommission it over many years. It would cost more than that to build a new NPP and get it producing for the grid. There's too many regulatory hurdles but without those hurdles, the facility could be unsafe/unprotected/vulnerable. It's a lose-lose situation without a huge investment from the government to make nuclear attractive again.
 

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I can draw graphs about how I could make fusion if they gave me billions of dollars too.

Fuck fusion for now, Fission with breeder reactors for base load, water purification and start a electric vehicle mandate for large cities and use batteries that idiots are trying to use with solar for grid power for vehicles instead. But nah, nothing will happen and people will keep arguing about the best band-aid for a mangled missing leg, butterfly, or clear....

With Westinghouse collapsing and NPPs shutting down all over the place in the USA, power companies don't have the stomach to build or expand NPPs. Natural gas is too cheap and there's too many subsidies for wind to take a renewed risk on nuclear.

It's such a big shame that NPPs aren't getting invested in. :ohwell:

I read a good 7-8 years ago now in a science mag that the modern reactors are much cleaner and waaay safer than the old ones so pose no threat. Also, we can find 100 years at least of storage space for the radioactive waste, at which point technology will have likely been developed to process it into something inert and no longer harmful. As usual, politics and egos fuck everything up. :mad:
 

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With Westinghouse collapsing and NPPs shutting down all over the place in the USA, power companies don't have the stomach to build or expand NPPs. Natural gas is too cheap and there's too many subsidies for wind to take a renewed risk on nuclear.

The smallest NPP in the nation (250MW) shutdown a few years back and it's going to cost them $1 billion to decommission it over many years. It would cost more than that to build a new NPP and get it producing for the grid. There's too many regulatory hurdles but without those hurdles, the facility could be unsafe/unprotected/vulnerable. It's a lose-lose situation without a huge investment from the government to make nuclear attractive again.


The issue with decommissioning is the black magic boogeyman that idiots fear from nuclear, meaning that a lot of people would rather risk dumping millions of tons of CO2 into the air than to let a nuclear plant near them, while holding a save the earth sign. Sure some parts of the plant will remain mildly radioactive for a few years, and some will remain slightly radioactive for hundreds or thousands of years, but https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guarapari meaning the beach could give the maximum 5 year dose allowed to Canadian/US nuclear workers in a couple months. Breeder reactors can reprocess "waste" on site. The radioactive parts can be stored underground, or in water for a few years and then recycled. We could be recycling waste from other plants for fuel.

Think of a average person, then realize half of the population is dumber than they are, they believe things like the earth is flat, we haven't been to the moon, have no idea how electricity, magnetism, chemistry, or even fucking airplanes work. This is why nuclear power is such a big issue. Once the first Fusion accident happens and gruesome details of instant vaporization of everyone in close proximity, high energy ionizing radiation killing others close by is shown, people will fear it too. Look what happened with Fission in the early stages, it was going to do everything from power your car to make your coffee, and now.......
 

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Decommissioning is costly. They have to disassemble all components that were exposed to radiation, evaluate them for contamination, then pay for their proper disposal which often includes transportation. It's a long, costly process. On top of that, they have to dispose of the spent fuel rods that are usually housed at the facility itself as well as all the contaminated fluids that kept these radioactive components cool (read: stable).

It's not a "boogeyman." These costs are known even during construction of the facility but are increased through extension of planned lifespan as well as inflation.

"Few years?" Ha! Decades at minimum. The fuel rods themselves are centuries at minimum.

Breeder reactors take mildly contaminated waste from typical nuclear reactors and make it much, much more radioactive while extracting a lot more energy from it in the process. In short, you end up with less waste but that waste is far more dangerous. So why aren't there breeder reactors all over the place? Because they produce plutonium which is fantastic for weaponization. No one trusts anyone with access to a lot of breeder reactors.
 
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Decommissioning is costly. They have to disassemble all components that were exposed to radiation, evaluate them for contamination, then pay for their proper disposal which often includes transportation. It's a long, costly process. On top of that, they have to dispose of the spent fuel rods that are usually housed at the facility itself as well as all the contaminated fluids that kept these radioactive components cool (read: stable).

It's not a "boogeyman." These costs are known even during construction of the facility but are increased through extension of planned lifespan as well as inflation.

"Few years?" Ha! Decades at minimum. The fuel rods themselves are centuries at minimum.

Breeder reactors take mildly contaminated waste from typical nuclear reactors and make it much, much more radioactive while extracting a lot more energy from it in the process. In short, you end up with less waste but that waste is far more dangerous. So why aren't there breeder reactors all over the place? Because they produce plutonium which is fantastic for weaponization. No one trusts anyone with access to a lot of breeder reactors.


I was pointing out the radiation standards are a joke, and how the fear of radiation has caused those standards to be what they are. If realistic standards were implemented whats classified as nuclear waste would change significantly, cost of decommissioning would decrease substantially.

Breeder reactors can be built and designed to generate enriched plutonium, or virtually none with some changes to the fuel matrix. But even the type or design that allows us to create enriched plutonium isn't that bad. On one hand we aren't going past our planet without Plutonium to power RTG's and the last few that we have used we actually had to buy the plutonium from Russia. http://dailycaller.com/2017/03/28/nasa-wants-to-stop-buying-russian-plutonium/
On the other, while we aren't in the cold war anymore, a few high power nuclear weapons to help deter small countries like Iran from building their own and nuking Israel or any nearby country isn't such a bad thing. Insane dictators usually don't respect "please don't do bad things to your people or ours" as much as "if you do this, we will nuke you and if you survive you will be the king of a sea of glass, and a army of skeletons"
 

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The problem with radiation is no specific amount is known to be safe. It's more about mitigation of risk rather than elimination.

I don't think breeder reactors produce the plutonium suitable for RTGs. The plutonium is too dirty which causes the containment to decay quickly. Usually they take U-238, bombard it with neutrons to produce Pu-238 and then extract it while it is stable. Breeder reactors for electricity generation will keep that Pu-238 in the reactor because it's producing heat that eventually drives the turbines.

Nuclear weapons are useless to all countries except those like Iran and North Korea that really couldn't care less what happens after the weapon is used in anger. A country like the USA or Russia can't use them as a strike weapon: only in retaliation to a nuclear attack.

Even if a nuclear weapon isn't made from breeder reactor Pu-238, the material itself is dangerous if detonated with conventional explosives because it is extremely radioactive.
 
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No known amount..... well, we all live in risk, and flying on a plane gives you a higher dose, as does laying on a beach, or lighting off fireworks....etc

But the radiation nuclear workers and others are expected to sustain is lower than that of coal workers and the public from radioactive elements being released from its combustion. So lets not squabble over semantics, a safe amount is far greater than what is allowed, and sure we are always trying to mitigate exposure and worse case scenario, but its unrealistic to expect a worker to receive less than an airline pilot.

Breeder reactors are exactly how Plutonium is made for these missions. Thus the name Breeder. https://neutronbytes.com/2017/03/05/nasa-re-starts-pu-238-production-at-two-sites/ Its just that the reactors use Neptunium to enrich specifically during a Fission reaction to increase yield, but again, reactor design can create or "burn" newly formed Plutonium depending on design.

Nuclear weapons are useless against countries like Russia, France, China.... etc as its becomes a zero sum game. They are ONLY effective against smaller countries which cannot retaliate against a nuclear deterrent, the only question then becomes, what do they have to do for us or someone else to use a nuke? North Korea, if they launched an actual weapon against the US for example.... or China, or Korea. Or Palestine, lets say they finally got their hands on one and decided to use it against Israel, what then, you have a country where a large percent of the population feel that Jews are the enemy and are OK with their death.

Are Hiroshima and Nagasaki uninhabitable? Nope, higher power nuclear source means shorter half life and less dangerous byproducts. It would be worse for someone to use conventional explosives and elements with longer half lives.

Also, Pepto Bismol emits Alpha particles https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bismuth-209 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bismuth, as does Plutonium https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plutonium-238 , and Plutonium in non-critical mass can be shielded with a few sheets of paper or aluminum foil https://solarsystem.nasa.gov/rps/docs/APP RPS Pu-238 FS 12-10-12.pdf " Shielding: Pu-238 decays by the alpha emission process,
and these alpha particles can be stopped by material as thin
as a sheet of paper. This greatly enhances radiation protection
safety. Other radioisotopes would require much greater (and
heavier) shielding to protect both the humans working on the
power source and its spacecraft on the ground before launch,
as well as the many radiation-sensitive electronic parts onboard
a spacecraft."
. HMWP are common shields in labs as they absorb the occasional neutron easily with no secondary decay effect.
 

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But the radiation nuclear workers and others are expected to sustain is lower than that of coal workers and the public from radioactive elements being released from its combustion. So lets not squabble over semantics, a safe amount is far greater than what is allowed, and sure we are always trying to mitigate exposure and worse case scenario, but its unrealistic to expect a worker to receive less than an airline pilot.
Because radiation environments are kept clean purposefully to detect leaks. Radiation from coal isn't going to escalate to lethal levels in a matter of hours; radiation from a purposeful source of radiation can. Again, no one has been able to establish what exactly is "safe." It's more about what is "normal" and "abnormal." We also know that Acute Radiation Syndrome is real and that, at least in humans, ionizing radiation has the greatest and most immediate effect on the thyroid.

Breeder reactors are exactly how Plutonium is made for these missions. Thus the name Breeder. https://neutronbytes.com/2017/03/05/nasa-re-starts-pu-238-production-at-two-sites/ Its just that the reactors use Neptunium to enrich specifically during a Fission reaction to increase yield, but again, reactor design can create or "burn" newly formed Plutonium depending on design.
Anything that adds neutrons is technically a breeder. Your average nuclear reactor does some breeding as well. My point stands that breeder reactors for the purpose of generating electricity won't be producing plutonium to use in RTGs.


Nope, higher power nuclear source means shorter half life and less dangerous byproducts.
USA selected Nagasaki and Hiroshima as well as detonating the bombs high off the ground to minimize radiation exposure. Most of it blew out over the Pacific Ocean. See this if you want to learn about it.

Also, Pepto Bismol emits Alpha particles https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bismuth-209 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bismuth, as does Plutonium https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plutonium-238 , and Plutonium in non-critical mass can be shielded with a few sheets of paper or aluminum foil https://solarsystem.nasa.gov/rps/docs/APP RPS Pu-238 FS 12-10-12.pdf " Shielding: Pu-238 decays by the alpha emission process,
and these alpha particles can be stopped by material as thin
as a sheet of paper. This greatly enhances radiation protection
safety. Other radioisotopes would require much greater (and
heavier) shielding to protect both the humans working on the
power source and its spacecraft on the ground before launch,
as well as the many radiation-sensitive electronic parts onboard
a spacecraft."
. HMWP are common shields in labs as they absorb the occasional neutron easily with no secondary decay effect.
Alpha isn't the problem, gamma is (ionizing). Beta is in between in terms of ionization.
 
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Because radiation environments are kept clean purposefully to detect leaks. Radiation from coal isn't going to escalate to lethal levels in a matter of hours; radiation from a purposeful source of radiation can. Again, no one has been able to establish what exactly is "safe." It's more about what is "normal" and "abnormal." We also know that Acute Radiation Syndrome is real and that, at least in humans, ionizing radiation has the greatest and most immediate effect on the thyroid.


Anything that adds neutrons is technically a breeder. Your average nuclear reactor does some breeding as well. My point stands that breeder reactors for the purpose of generating electricity won't be producing plutonium to use in RTGs.



USA selected Nagasaki and Hiroshima as well as detonating the bombs high off the ground to minimize radiation exposure. Most of it blew out over the Pacific Ocean. See this if you want to learn about it.


Alpha isn't the problem, gamma is.

"Acute Radiation Syndrome (ARS) (sometimes known as radiation toxicity or radiation sickness) is an acute illness caused by irradiation of the entire body (or most of the body) by a high dose of penetrating radiation in a very short period of time (usually a matter of minutes)."

We aren't talking high doses, or abnormal, we are talking amounts that are experienced by everyone at one point in time or another. I have flown quite a bit, had some Xrays from broken bones, and camped at high altitudes for weeks, so my exposure is probably greater than what is allowed for nuclear workers. This is not the issue, the issue is if we had or have a standard protocol for reprocessing the waste and a realistic view of radiation we wouldn't have such high costs associated with decommissioning. I am not saying to build a plant with less safety or with higher allowable limits during operation, but we KNOW at some point the in operation reactors will be shutdown and there is a unrealistic fear of "waste" that prevents better processing and procedures. We have miles on miles of wasteland that we could bury the useless components in that receive no rain and would make it no more dangerous than uranium in the ground already. Water is a good shield, dump the waste in a sectioned off part of the ocean and then pour concrete over it to seal it until it can safely degrade, sea water already contains uranium.
 

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There's only been 22 known cases of ARS (if memory serves) and all of them occurred as Chernobyl NPP. The strict safety testing at any facility that handles radioactive material is for the express purpose of stopping the problem before it gets to the point of causing ARS.

Nuclear detonations aren't reasonably capable of causing ARS. Decaying nuclear warheads could.

Water is a good shield, dump the waste in a sectioned off part of the ocean and then pour concrete over it to seal it until it can safely degrade, sea water already contains uranium.
Water is corrosive, salt water especially so. The gamma and beta radiation coming off the spent fuel is also potentially lethal to the wildlife.

The pools they keep spent fuel in have no life in them and they're constantly circulating to prevent the water from boiling.
 
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