AMD Vega Discussion Thread

[notb]

I agreed with your entire post outside of this passage.

There are plenty of heatsinks able to cool 250W+. Remember the cooler on the old 780Ti/980Ti Lightning? Yeah that triple slot thing was said to cool 500W. 300W+ is nothing compared to that.

980Ti was a high-end mainstream card. Vega RX is on a path to be just a nuisance.
I think the fact that 3rd party vendors are offering a repainted AMD's cooler is a good sign of things.

MSI is clearly able to make a cooler for a Vega, yet:
https://www.msi.com/Graphics-card/Radeon-RX-Vega-64-8G.html

You people can bash HBM all you want, but the reality is, HBM is the future. In 10 years time, there will be nothing but HBM on all cards (except maybe bottom feeder ones that might still have some revision of GDDR). Modular stacking of stuff around GPU core is how graphic cards will exist in the future. Multiple smaller cores, memory modules, video decoder engines, all of this will come modular next to actual GPU core and not as massive monolithic cores.

Maybe they will, maybe they won't. But if it's 10 years, why bother now?
Today HBM in a gaming product is nothing but problems.

 

[EarthDog]

980Ti was a high-end mainstream card. Vega RX is on a path to be just a nuisance.
I think the fact that 3rd party vendors are offering a repainted AMD's cooler is a good sign of things.

Mainstream, Flagship, budget........whatever. That is completely not relevant. The point was there are '500W' coolers out there which can easily cool this card.

MSI is clearly able to make a cooler for a Vega, yet:
https://www.msi.com/Graphics-card/Radeon-RX-Vega-64-8G.html

Are you kidding? How is that a sign you wont see any?? WTH????? You rarely see AIB cards out day 1. You will see AIB cards with aftermarket solutions soon enough.

Today HBM in a gaming product is nothing but problems.

It is? Seems to work just fine.



Sheesh Rejz, with posts like this ^^, I can see why you went batshhhcrazy...

 

[notb]

Mainstream, Flagship, budget........whatever. That is completely not relevant. The point was there are '500W' coolers out there which can easily cool this card.

It is relevant.
Of course they can make such a cooler - they might have made it in the past.
But they would need relatively large sales to make it sensible. Is RX Vega a large volume product (even for a $500 flagship)? It doesn't look to be.
Yet, they obviously want to have an AMD flagship GPU in the lineup.

Are you kidding? How is that a sign you wont see any?? WTH????

So why is MSI offering the reference model? Other companies are doing the same thing.

You rarely see AIB cards out day 1. You will see AIB cards with aftermarket solutions soon enough.

I got the impression that we usually see AIB cards pretty quickly after the launch.
On the other hand, I don't recall a situation where so many GPU vendors offer a bare reference model.
You can check yourself that these cards have same outputs and even identical clocks - they didn't even bother with a tiny factory OC.
It's the same card - only the logo changes.

AFAIK ASUS is the only major manufacturer that has already shown a Vega with custom cooling. Coincidentally, they're not offering a reference model.
So my guess is that few others (including MSI, Gigabyte and XFX) said "not interested". We'll learn the truth soon enough.

It is? Seems to work just fine.

But it gives no advantages. And while it might work fine in a final product, it impacts the card design. In fact the whole idea of this GPU is based on HBM.
AMD could have made an equally good (or bad) card using GDDR. And did I mention the price and availability?

 

[EarthDog]

It will sell... its not relevant where it sits in the product stack for a company to build a cooler.

They always do offer reference... look back and see. Same with other AIBs! This isnt new.

I get that its a sticker change this is normal. Again, aftermarket cards will be here. Asus announced you mentioned. More will be on the way.

There is a difference between no advantages and "nothing but problems". I agree there are few advantages right now. But you said nothing but problems which i disagree with. Make up your mind...those are almost polar opposite things.

 

[RejZoR]

980Ti was a high-end mainstream card. Vega RX is on a path to be just a nuisance.
I think the fact that 3rd party vendors are offering a repainted AMD's cooler is a good sign of things.

MSI is clearly able to make a cooler for a Vega, yet:
https://www.msi.com/Graphics-card/Radeon-RX-Vega-64-8G.html


Maybe they will, maybe they won't. But if it's 10 years, why bother now?
Today HBM in a gaming product is nothing but problems.

You do realize that GDDR5 and GDDR5X didn't just fall out of thin sky? It went through 6 revisions actually. And maybe you don't remember, but I do, every iteration had problems initially (loose timings, lower clocks at larger capacities etc). GDDR5 is so problem free because we have it around for so freaking long.

 

[Vya Domus]

Except HBM didn't really had any problems on Fiji. It wouldn't OC well , but damn the thing was producing half a terabyte of bandwidth already. 4 Gb was also enough at the time as well.

Memory is among the most well vetted component in any computer system , it needs to be 100% stable and fault free.

 

[EarthDog]

Yeah.. im having trouble recalling any hbm issues. It didnt overclock (well), but, i wouldnt call that a problem either.

 

[RejZoR]

I know why they cut down the bus width with Vega. Memory bus width increases costs because you have to route tons of connections to GPU in order to give both GPU and VRAM a highway to connect data between them. It' why everyone is keeping memory bus width as low as possible. But we also know super wide memory bus does work. Good example are Hawaii and Fiji cores, both having exceptionally wide memory bus. But it's more expensive.

 

[purecain]

well how disappointing. I hope amd have a vega 96 on its way(although we know that's never gonna happen). they're not at the limit here, looking at the results I just can not understand why they wouldn't create a stronger version of this core... an extra 10fps on their scores would of made all the difference. but then I'm not a GPU engineer. they came close...

 

[RejZoR]

The problem is not in the amount of shaders really. I think the issue is somewhere else in the Vega core where it's starved and causes these problems. Because in some cases it comes really very close to GTX 1080Ti, where elsewhere it hardly beats R9 Fury X. So, clearly some architectural issue. Or just driver issue at best, but it's hard to say.

 

[cucker tarlson]

ROTFL if true.

It doesn't make much difference if vega's msrp is $499 like amd told us, a hundred bucks more or a hundred bucks less for that matter. The card is gonna be unobtanium and retailers are gonna be raising the prices fivefold.

 

[kurosagi01]

Sad really i was really looking forward to seeing what the hype was all about.. Scan uk has a powercolor vega64 going for £599.99 in stock at the moment.
I was waiting on Vega aswell before i bought my RX580 but because i was building a 2ndary rig i needed a suitable replacement for my GTX970 for right price. Was still waiting on seeing how much vega would be and reviews. Guess i'll be sticking with the 580 for next 2 years or so or get another Nvidia card.

 

[cucker tarlson]

Comparing Vega64 vs 1080 is disappointing. 1080 is 15 months old, 1080Ti is uncontested, and it's still a cut version of GP102. I'm 1080 SJS owner myself, the card runs +2100MHz and I can say in some titles its performance @1440p is mediocre. WatchDogs2 is a game that I'm very much into but enabling PCSS/HTFS which look amazing in this game bring the GTX1080 to 30 fps.

 

[kurosagi01]

AMD sure was on a roll with the value for money,specially with Ryzen release and then after hyping Vega for so long its just been a let down, Vega64 cost more than 1080 and the 56 will probably be priced more or equal to a aftermarket cooled GTX1070 on a reference cooler. The UK pricing has always been stupid with PC parts and this is just icing on the cake.
The 56 seems more better deal out of the 2 vega cards though if it does get priced right..

 

[ViperXTR]

so how about the RX Vega Nano?

 

[RejZoR]

RX Vega launch seems to be one of the worst I've seen from AMD. The chip isn't necessarely bad or underperforming, they just totally cocked it up with really terrible timing and even worse pricing scheme and even more worse marketing feeding of info to consumers which was endless postponing of stuff. Not to mention they charge premium yet they are in no position to do that.

 

[Vya Domus]

, they just totally cocked it up with really terrible timing and even worse pricing scheme and even more worse marketing feeding of info to consumers which was endless postponing of stuff. Not to mention they charge premium yet they are in no position to do that.

I have been saying that for ages , Vega was in no shape or form going to be an amazing gaming card given it's release time. There's a very good reason they charge a premium , the GPU itself is huge and very expensive to manufacture and going past the unimpressive gaming performance it is in reality a very capable piece of hardware. There was no way they would've sold it for cheap.

Marketing wise , AMD, Nvidia , Intel , they are all garbage at that anyway.

 

[kurosagi01]

Marketing wise , AMD, Nvidia , Intel , they are all garbage at that anyway.

Pretty much cover all the lead hardware developers lol which i can agree with.

 

[Vya Domus]

Pretty much cover all the lead hardware developers lol which i can agree with.

Even if they would be amazing at marketing , it's not like most people on here would care , we wouldn't buy whatever they said anyway just because of fancy marketing.

 

[FreedomEclipse]

I doubt it would happen but hopefully this might force price drops on the 1080ti...even though it's performance is uncontested.

Fingers crossed

 

[notb]

Even if they would be amazing at marketing , it's not like most people on here would care , we wouldn't buy whatever they said anyway just because of fancy marketing.

So why do you buy AMD's products?

 

[kurosagi01]

So why do you buy AMD's products?

I'm sure we all love and enjoy buying quality products that is within our budget and fits our needs, the marketing strategy is of course to attract potential buyers but with today consumer standard we all prefer to wait for feedbacks and tested by users that are able to test it. Whether its a reviewer or a journalist as they are capable of getting a review unit of said product for free or at discount.

I went for Nvidia GTX970 over AMD equivalent around 2015 purely because it offered better value for money from reviews.
Jump to 2017 i bought a RX580 which is practically a side upgrade and reviews only show only minor improvements but i jumped on it over 1060 because i fancied trying AMD again even if it cost bit more(today price) which is a gamble when the 1060 on paper is the better card.

 

[P4-630]

AMD Radeon RX Vega 10 chips differ - physically and quite significantly

http://www.guru3d.com/news_story/am...iffer_physically_and_quite_significantly.html

 

[Vya Domus]

AMD Radeon RX Vega 10 chips differ - physically and quite significantly

http://www.guru3d.com/news_story/am...iffer_physically_and_quite_significantly.html

Couldn't really gather what it is supposed to mean though

 

[EarthDog]

May be a problem for cooler mounting...