LENOVO T470S not turbo boosting

[azerty1983]

Hi,

I have a LENOVO T470S with an i7 7600U which is supposed to go up to 3.90Ghz on turbo boost.
Guaranted frequency is 2.9Ghz.

When on battery using the balanced mode of windows, I can't turbo boost at all.
I use Prime95 to stress the laptop and it goes up to 2.80 Ghz max with 1 thread only.

On another forum, someone told me to try ThrottleStop. So I did.
Weird thing. When ThrotlleStop is launched but off (the button label is "turn on" not "turn off"), the same above (using prime) test goes up to 3.25Ghz. And ThrottleStop report CPU PL1 limit and RING EDP OTHER LIMIT.

When ThrottleStop is enabled (the button label is "turn off"), it can't go up to 3.25Ghz also with the same limits report (CPU PL1 and RING EDP OTHER). SpeedShift EPP 128 and SST green enabled.

Why can't I reach 3.5Ghz and above when using only 1 thread ? Reaching around 3.25Ghz with 4 threads is OK, but I though with one thread, I should thread higher frequency.

I feel ripped off by lenovo. I bought an premium CPU to compile code and I can't event reach the advertised turbo boost frequency.

Thank you all.


o

 

[P4-630]

It's probably designed with a poor cooling solution so that it doesn't run at full turbo.
You may want to contact Lenovo about this.

Also I don't think this laptop is designed to run something like prime95, I'm sure the CPU will throttle when you run it, it's a laptop.

 

[Vya Domus]

I think you need to disable BD PROCHOT and set the multiplier as high as it can go in order to achieve what you want. Anyway don't feel ripped off , pretty much all laptops do this

You are trying to run Prime95 ? On a laptop ? What did you expect ? Even on a desktop you would not maintain the turbo clocks with Prime95.

 

[FreedomEclipse]

It's a thin low profile business laptop. The cooling system probably can't handle the heat load.

Prime95 is causing your CPU to thermal throttle. Either send it back and get a new/thicker laptop. Namely a gaming orientated one from gigabyte or msi and get the performance you are looking for

 

[_JP_]

Funny, I already configured 5 of those and actually checked that all of them boost to 3.9, which is awesome.
So let's go for the first round of questions:
- What Windows did you install?
- If it is Windows 10, did you install the Intel CPPC settings, which come as part of the Lenovo System Interface Foundation package?
- If you change to high performance and launch...idk, youtube, does it boost to 3,9?

When on battery using the balanced mode of windows, I can't turbo boost at all.

Yeah, it isn't supposed to in Windows 7 or 8.1 and Windows 10 without CPPC installed.

I feel ripped off by lenovo. I bought an premium CPU to compile code and I can't event reach the advertised turbo boost frequency.

And, to be honest, if that was the purpose, you could have gone with a T470p, which would be almost the same price and the i7 would be a HQ instead of a U model, which translates into an actual Quad Core.
Lenovo didn't rip you off, you just didn't choose right.

 

[cdawall]

So you enabled a power saving profile and you are trying to figure out why a laptop wont turbo to max turbo under a stress test?

Because thats not how turbo works. If you exceed the tdp envelope it will downclock. All Intel and AMD processors do it. No one ripped you off you don't understand how turbo works.

 

[unclewebb]

The ThrottleStop Turn On - Turn Off option only applies to the Clock Modulation and Set Multiplier options. You do not have either of those checked so this is not relevant. For maximum performance, set EPP to 0. This is the Energy Performance Preference setting. You use 0 when you are interested in maximum performance.

I bought a Lenovo T570with a 7500U for my wife and it is a beast of a little computer. It can use the 35 multiplier whether 1 or 2 cores are loaded. Lenovo was nice enough to leave the power limits unlocked so I bumped those up and it can run LinX on both cores and maintain the 35 multiplier without a hint of any throttling.

Running steady at 28 Watts when the TDP rating is only 15 Watts is wonderful. So is 87 GFlops out of a supposedly low power dual core CPU. If Lenovo left your power limits unlocked then bump them up and see how it goes.

Edit - By the way, there is no guaranteed frequency. Manufacturers can do whatever they want with these low power U CPUs. If the Clamp bit in the processor is set, it might not be able to run at the default frequency. If a manufacturer decides to send it into low power mode, it might not be able to run at its rated 15W TDP. That is why I generally do not recommend the U Series. You need to make sure that the power limits are unlocked and send the thing back immediately if it does not meet your requirements.

Edit - I like a solid 35 multiplier when idle too. A fast computer is an efficient computer. Check out the idle power consumption. People do not realize that the reported frequency and voltage when a U CPU is idle is meaningless. These CPUs will hunker down in a low power C State where the individual cores are actually spending 99% of their time at 0 MHz and 0 volts.

 

[azerty1983]

It's probably designed with a poor cooling solution so that it doesn't run at full turbo.
You may want to contact Lenovo about this.

Also I don't think this laptop is designed to run something like prime95, I'm sure the CPU will throttle when you run it, it's a laptop.

It's a thin low profile business laptop. The cooling system probably can't handle the heat load.

Prime95 is causing your CPU to thermal throttle. Either send it back and get a new/thicker laptop. Namely a gaming orientated one from gigabyte or msi and get the performance you are looking for

The thing is I never reached the max temperature. I was far away from it.
Throttlestop reported a power limit instead : thats what is odd because I read on reddit that they removed it. So perhaps they gave me one which still have this limit ?

So you enabled a power saving profile and you are trying to figure out why a laptop wont turbo to max turbo under a stress test?

Because thats not how turbo works. If you exceed the tdp envelope it will downclock. All Intel and AMD processors do it. No one ripped you off you don't understand how turbo works.

Laptop won't turbomax when on stress test ? Really ? I thought intel CPU are designed no matter what to reach that turbomax. Not for long, I agree, but their CPU are born to give the extra juice unless they're too hot or they're drawing to much power. Please correct me if I am wrong.

The temperature never reached TJMax.

 

[StefanM]

Try XTU
https://downloadcenter.intel.com/do...treme-Tuning-Utility-Intel-XTU-?product=66427

 

[azerty1983]

Try XTU
https://downloadcenter.intel.com/do...treme-Tuning-Utility-Intel-XTU-?product=66427

I tried XTU and it reports the same thing as throttle stop : power limits throttle is yellow lighted when using their bench test.

 

[unclewebb]

Did you raise the power limits yet? That is the only way to get around power limit throttling.

The 7500U I have does not report any throttling after this is taken care of while running a much more demanding benchmark compared to XTU.

 

[Drone69]

Does it boost fully when not just using the battery?

 

[cdawall]

Laptop won't turbomax when on stress test ? Really ? I thought intel CPU are designed no matter what to reach that turbomax. Not for long, I agree, but their CPU are born to give the extra juice unless they're too hot or they're drawing to much power. Please correct me if I am wrong.

The temperature never reached TJMax.

Even my 4980 will drop multipliers you hit the tdp limit for the chip. Multiple people have mentioned how to get around it if Lenovo left it open.

 

[Drone69]

This review found the same problem your having.

https://www.notebookcheck.net/Lenov...D-Laptop-Review.200880.0.html#toc-performance

 

[azerty1983]

Thanks for passing by ! You're quiet a legend around here !

How do you check if the T470s they sent me is power limited ? I read on reddit some where that they removed that power limit. And you also said that they did.

You're talking about a Clamp bit. How can I check if it's set ?

My requirement should be met with the 7600u if it can reach the turbomax. I compile code in visual studio and the thing is, for the kind of projects I mainly design, the compiler does not use more than one core. So I chose to put money on a U CPU instead of an HQ of an T470P because of the 4x pci lane for the hard drive, the weight and the slim body.

The T470p is beefy but seemed too thick and too much.

On the screenshot you made, your multiplier above the speed shift setting is 35. Mine is 27.

Did you change it by yourself ?

Did you make your test while on batterry ? People are telling me it's because I am on balanced mode. I thought balanced is supposed to push the CPU and slow down when no major load is queued.

I just fire up the laptop and it's odd : I am on balanced and it's right now at 3,8Ghz with no load, no stress test, no app launched.

The ThrottleStop Turn On - Turn Off option only applies to the Clock Modulation and Set Multiplier options. You do not have either of those checked so this is not relevant. For maximum performance, set EPP to 0. This is the Energy Performance Preference setting. You use 0 when you are interested in maximum performance.

I bought a Lenovo T570with a 7500U for my wife and it is a beast of a little computer. It can use the 35 multiplier whether 1 or 2 cores are loaded. Lenovo was nice enough to leave the power limits unlocked so I bumped those up and it can run LinX on both cores and maintain the 35 multiplier without a hint of any throttling.

Running steady at 28 Watts when the TDP rating is only 15 Watts is wonderful. So is 87 GFlops out of a supposedly low power dual core CPU. If Lenovo left your power limits unlocked then bump them up and see how it goes.

Edit - By the way, there is no guaranteed frequency. Manufacturers can do whatever they want with these low power U CPUs. If the Clamp bit in the processor is set, it might not be able to run at the default frequency. If a manufacturer decides to send it into low power mode, it might not be able to run at its rated 15W TDP. That is why I generally do not recommend the U Series. You need to make sure that the power limits are unlocked and send the thing back immediately if it does not meet your requirements.

Edit - I like a solid 35 multiplier when idle too. A fast computer is an efficient computer. Check out the idle power consumption. People do not realize that the reported frequency and voltage when a U CPU is idle is meaningless. These CPUs will hunker down in a low power C State where the individual cores are actually spending 99% of their time at 0 MHz and 0 volts.

Did you raise the power limits yet? That is the only way to get around power limit throttling.

The 7500U I have does not report any throttling after this is taken care of while running a much more demanding benchmark compared to XTU.

I guess that the problem. ThrottleStop and XTU report both a PL1.

When stressing with 4 threads, I can go as high as 2.6Ghz. It draws 8.5W

When stressing with 1 thread, I can go as high as 3.4Ghz. Still stopped at 8.5W.

Should have been able to reach 3.9Ghz with 1 thread ? I though I could get a little bit above 3Ghz with 4 threads and the full spectrum with only one thread.
That's what is important to me because the projects are not meant to be done on multiple threads.
Testing code may need more threads but I am not really concerned by that.

Thanks for helping me ! It's very much appreciated !

This review found the same problem your having.

https://www.notebookcheck.net/Lenov...D-Laptop-Review.200880.0.html#toc-performance

OMG !!!! I am doomed !!! That's exactly what's happening to me. How come they can sell those computers with those high end CPU if we can't even manage to use them at their full capacity ?

It's like selling a ferrari but telling people they can't go much higher than 10 km/h because the body of the car is made of paper...

So it's 3.9Ghz for the 2 cores ! Not just one of them ! I would be happy if I could reach that frequency with only one...

 

[unclewebb]

Your screenshots show that you still have Speed Shift - EPP set to 128. Why? That value can block your CPU reaching its maximum rated speed. If you are looking for maximum performance when plugged in, change that to 0 in ThrottleStop. Set it to about 80 when on battery power.

After that, disable BD PROCHOT. This is a common throttling method and it is not needed. With BD PROCHOT disabled, your CPU will still throttle if it ever gets too hot.

Next click on TPL and post a screenshot. That will show what your power limits are set to and if they are locked or not. If they are unlocked, try setting the Long and Short term power limits to 28 instead of 15.

http://www.cpu-world.com/CPUs/Core_i7/Intel-Core i7 i7-7600U.html

A 7600U can use the full 39 multiplier whether 1 or 2 cores are active as long as it is not overheating or exceeding the turbo power limits. If you can increase the power limit, then your CPU can reach its full potential.

Edit - I just read the review. Those guys need to learn how to use ThrottleStop.

Edit - You might be doomed. U CPUs have a mode called TDP down. This changes a 15 Watt TDP CPU into a 8.5 Watt CPU. This change happens while you are using it and there might not be anything you can do about it. The 7500U I played with never went into TDP down mode so it ran like a champ. If this is the case, your only hope is to use ThrottleStop to do some under volting. Reducing your CPU voltage can help your CPU avoid going into TDP down mode.

There is a setting within the Windows power profile that can let you access this TDP down limit but sometimes this setting is hidden. Make sure you are on the Windows High Performance profile when testing.

 

[azerty1983]

I'll try to use the setting you just gave me to see what happens. But here a screenshot that bugs me out :

Why my PL1 is at 8.5W ? Is it normal ?
The guys in the review has 25W for both (PL1 and PL2)

I'll be back in 15 minutes : I am going to try your settings.

Does it boost fully when not just using the battery?

When o

Your screenshots show that you still have Speed Shift - EPP set to 128. Why? That value can block your CPU reaching its maximum rated speed. If you are looking for maximum performance when plugged in, change that to 0 in ThrottleStop. Set it to about 80 when on battery power.

After that, disable BD PROCHOT. This is a common throttling method and it is not needed. With BD PROCHOT disabled, your CPU will still throttle if it ever gets too hot.

Next click on TPL and post a screenshot. That will show what your power limits are set to and if they are locked or not. If they are unlocked, try setting the Long and Short term power limits to 28 instead of 15.

http://www.cpu-world.com/CPUs/Core_i7/Intel-Core i7 i7-7600U.html

A 7600U can use the full 39 multiplier whether 1 or 2 cores are active as long as it is not overheating or exceeding the turbo power limits. If you can increase the power limit, then your CPU can reach its full potential.

Edit - I just read the review. Those guys need to learn how to use ThrottleStop.

Edit - You might be doomed. U CPUs have a mode called TDP down. This changes a 15 Watt TDP CPU into a 8.5 Watt CPU. This change happens while you are using it and there might not be anything you can do about it. The 7500U I played with never went into TDP down mode so it ran like a champ.

As you can see the short and long power term are at 25.
Throttlestop reports the same thing that HWinfo reports : PL1= 8 and PL2 = 25

Your screenshots show that you still have Speed Shift - EPP set to 128. Why? That value can block your CPU reaching its maximum rated speed. If you are looking for maximum performance when plugged in, change that to 0 in ThrottleStop. Set it to about 80 when on battery power.

After that, disable BD PROCHOT. This is a common throttling method and it is not needed. With BD PROCHOT disabled, your CPU will still throttle if it ever gets too hot.

Next click on TPL and post a screenshot. That will show what your power limits are set to and if they are locked or not. If they are unlocked, try setting the Long and Short term power limits to 28 instead of 15.

http://www.cpu-world.com/CPUs/Core_i7/Intel-Core i7 i7-7600U.html

A 7600U can use the full 39 multiplier whether 1 or 2 cores are active as long as it is not overheating or exceeding the turbo power limits. If you can increase the power limit, then your CPU can reach its full potential.

Edit - I just read the review. Those guys need to learn how to use ThrottleStop.

Edit - You might be doomed. U CPUs have a mode called TDP down. This changes a 15 Watt TDP CPU into a 8.5 Watt CPU. This change happens while you are using it and there might not be anything you can do about it. The 7500U I played with never went into TDP down mode so it ran like a champ. If this is the case, your only hope is to use ThrottleStop to do some under volting. Reducing your CPU voltage can help your CPU avoid going into TDP down mode.

There is a setting within the Windows power profile that can let you access this TDP down limit but sometimes this setting is hidden. Make sure you are on the Windows High Performance profile when testing.

 

[unclewebb]

In ThrottleStop, try checking the TDP Level Control and set that to 0. Push OK and then try some more testing with those other suggestions I made.

HWiNFO shows that your CPU is in Current cTDP Level 1. That is what is causing this problem. That is low TDP mode and it sucks.

This can be set in multiple locations within the CPU. If ThrottleStop or your Windows power plan can access this, you have hope. If not, you are screwed.

Also, clear the Clamp option. It is not needed.

TDP Level 2 is your TDP up level and that is rated at 25 Watts. If you can get your CPU into this level and keep it there, performance will go way up.

Edit

 

[azerty1983]

So with the settings you ask to change, there's no change from the last stress test. Still hitting 2.6Ghz with 4 threads :

And hitting 3.4Ghz with 1 threads.

I need the extra juice when unplugged because I mostly works not near my desk. And it would be an hassle for me to be plugged all the time just in order to get the extra juice.

Also, even when I am plugged, the results are the same. For 4 threads :

I'll spare you the screenshot for 1 thread...

Also I'd like to mention that right now, i am plugged and the CPU is reaching 3.78ghz on average but the power drawed is around 3W. Here's a screenshot of HWmonitor

Your screenshots show that you still have Speed Shift - EPP set to 128. Why? That value can block your CPU reaching its maximum rated speed. If you are looking for maximum performance when plugged in, change that to 0 in ThrottleStop. Set it to about 80 when on battery power.

After that, disable BD PROCHOT. This is a common throttling method and it is not needed. With BD PROCHOT disabled, your CPU will still throttle if it ever gets too hot.

Next click on TPL and post a screenshot. That will show what your power limits are set to and if they are locked or not. If they are unlocked, try setting the Long and Short term power limits to 28 instead of 15.

http://www.cpu-world.com/CPUs/Core_i7/Intel-Core i7 i7-7600U.html

A 7600U can use the full 39 multiplier whether 1 or 2 cores are active as long as it is not overheating or exceeding the turbo power limits. If you can increase the power limit, then your CPU can reach its full potential.

Edit - I just read the review. Those guys need to learn how to use ThrottleStop.

Edit - You might be doomed. U CPUs have a mode called TDP down. This changes a 15 Watt TDP CPU into a 8.5 Watt CPU. This change happens while you are using it and there might not be anything you can do about it. The 7500U I played with never went into TDP down mode so it ran like a champ. If this is the case, your only hope is to use ThrottleStop to do some under volting. Reducing your CPU voltage can help your CPU avoid going into TDP down mode.

There is a setting within the Windows power profile that can let you access this TDP down limit but sometimes this setting is hidden. Make sure you are on the Windows High Performance profile when testing.

 

[unclewebb]

TDP Throttle is still lighting up in ThrottleStop because your CPU is still in TDP Level 1 mode. Go read my last post again. I did a few edits.

Is Windows using the Balanced power profile when plugged in and on battery power? That is what is probably causing your CPU to go into low TDP mode and getting stuck there.

Here is some important info about this subject.

https://superuser.com/questions/909...al-framework-settings-what-exactly-do-they-do

 

[azerty1983]

So i cleared the clamp, put on the settings you asked and even clicked on "turn on" lol

But still the same result.

Where can I change the cTDP low level in ThrottleStop ?

Also what time is it over there ? It's only to see if you're going to sleep soon or we can talk a little bit longer to see what are my options. (i am crying lol)

In ThrottleStop, try checking the TDP Level Control and set that to 0. Push OK and then try some more testing with those other suggestions I made.

HWiNFO shows that your CPU is in Current cTDP Level 1. That is what is causing this problem. That is low TDP mode and it sucks.

This can be set in multiple locations within the CPU. If ThrottleStop or your Windows power plan can access this, you have hope. If not, you are screwed.

Also, clear the Clamp option. It is not needed.

TDP Level 2 is your TDP up level and that is rated at 25 Watts. If you can get your CPU into this level and keep it there, performance will go way up.

Edit

 

[unclewebb]

Have a look for this Windows setting.

https://superuser.com/questions/909...al-framework-settings-what-exactly-do-they-do

Almost have to go. I will check back tomorrow to see if you can figure this out. Post another screenshot of the ThrottleStop TPL window so I can see how you have that setup.

Some people disable or delete the Intel Thermal driver. It is useless but I heard that WIndows 10 likes to reinstall it over and over again. I avoid those updates.

 

[azerty1983]

Windows is in balanced mode everytime : when plugged and when on battery. I though it was the best power plan since I want my CPU to get rest when not compiling anything.

I am going to read the link you sent from superuser.

TDP Throttle is still lighting up in ThrottleStop because your CPU is still in TDP Level 1 mode. Go read my last post again. I did a few edits.

Is Windows using the Balanced power profile when plugged in and on battery power? That is what is probably causing your CPU to go into low TDP mode and getting stuck there.

Here is some important info about this subject.

https://superuser.com/questions/909...al-framework-settings-what-exactly-do-they-do

 

[unclewebb]

Balanced profile is not necessary. Modern CPUs use low power C States to save power. Switch to High Performance ASAP.

 

[azerty1983]

Running the CPU that high all the time ? Now, it never goes below 3.5Ghz all the time.
And when I launch ts bench 4 threads, it goes at 2.7Ghz (like in the previous tests)
I am read the link you sent and I am going to install the driver, even if it's for windows 8.

It's a DELL software, not from INTEL. Is it ok anyway to install it ?

Balanced profile is not necessary. Modern CPUs use low power C States to save power. Switch to High Performance ASAP.