Riding the Crypto wave

[trog100]

notb is playing the negative naysayer role in this thread.. i dont mind the role he is playing an opposing view is always of value..

i know i have just dumped a fair bit of dosh into something that may not pay off.. one thing i am sure of is that nothing in this world is certain any more.. some say the entire stock market is in a bubble just waiting to pop.. something i think is true..

nukes could start flying who the f-ck knows.. i am inclined to think notb knows f-ck all and is just playing the role he is playing for fun..

if he does know something i dont know i would be glad to hear it..

do i trust my dosh sat in a bank earning f-ck all.. nope that could go poof.. when it all come down to it its all just digits in the cyber ether.. nothing is real any more.. he he..

trog

 

[EarthDog]

i am getting into mining partly for something to play with and a feeling that if i dont i may be missing out.. he he..

as to money its all an unknown.. i dont think i am gonna lose out and i may make something.. but it will be an interesting trip finding out..

most things i get interested in (hobbies) cost me money.. the odd one makes me money.. but when the bug bites i kind of have to go for it.. he he..

trog

finally, trog actually using his hardware instead of neutering its performance!!

 

[notb]

Considering it has the opurtunity to pay a net profit, I kind of doubt it. Unless you are talking upfront cost.

Precisely speaking: there exists a probability distribution that describes the possible financial results. By increasing the costs you're just making the profit less probable (and lower).

notb is playing the negative naysayer role in this thread..

That depends how you look at it. I'm clearly not against blockchain and most of the time I'm not even against cryptocurrencies.
I just have some experience in finance (and in investing in particular). I'm just trying to point out some risks involved in this. And I started doing this when profitability was enormous and this thread was full of people keen to get into mining, spending thousands of USD, buying dozens of cards. Look what happened since then.

Think about it this way. If you go to a bank with some cash to invest, they'll try to give you all the risky products with very high potential return. But your friend or family will tell you not to, that it's all rubbish. How is "playing the negative role" in that situation?

That said, I don't really understand why you're starting mining now. Profitability is really bad - most "home miners" already quit or at least stopped investing into this (looking at GPU prices).

 

[trog100]

i just spend over two grand on a DJI camera drone which could fall out of the sky any moment.. the odd flutter on a mining rig to help relieve the boredom dosnt seem to carry much risk..

i do wonder what happens next though.. as far as i can work out blockchain needs miners.. will they all end up being in china maybe they will.. cheapest hardware and cheapest power costs the only place its profitable..

but as yet the only way i see me making any dosh is if the coins i mine now go up in value big time.. i am assuming they will when traditional money disappears up its own arse.. i am not looking at a quick profit.. i intend to mine and keep what i mine..

trog

 

[Vya Domus]

when traditional money disappears up its own arse..

Never going to happen or at least not how you would want it to happen.

 

[trog100]

Never going to happen or at least not how you would want it to happen.

i dont want it to happen.. but officialdom dosnt like cash and would love to get rid of it.. crypto could help destroy fiat cash.. that was my first thought when i saw bitcoin rapidly going up in value.. its increase in value will be at the expense of something else.. precious metals or more probably fiat cash the US dollar..

the world is awash with debt.. the only way its gonna get paid back is with valueless fiat money.. which is what i meant by cash disappearing up its own arse.. how about cash notes with a "spend by date" on them.. you can have some but if it aint spent within four weeks it becomes worthless.. he he..

everything i read kind of suggests that crypto is the future.. assuming we have one.. i aint so sure of that ether..

trog

 

[Vya Domus]

i dont want it to happen.. but officialdom dosnt like cash and would love to get rid of it.. crypto could help destroy fiat cash.. that was my first thought when i saw bitcoin rapidly going up in value.. its increase in value will be at the expense of something else.. precious metals or more probably fiat cash the US dollar..

the world is awash with debt.. the only way its gonna get paid back is with valueless fiat money.. which is what i meant by cash disappearing up its own arse.. how about cash notes with a "spend by date" on them.. you can have some but if it aint spent within four weeks it becomes worthless.. he he..

everything i read kind of suggests that crypto is the future.. assuming we have one.. i aint so sure of that ether..

trog

Thing is , the reason why people like crypto so much is because of mining , most couldn't care less about what advantages it carries.

If crypto truly is the future then it will be no good , we will go back to what we have today in one way or another. You can't get rid of things such as external debt so easily.

Anyway , we'll see eventually.

 

[R-T-B]

Thing is , the reason why people like crypto so much is because of mining , most couldn't care less about what advantages it carries.

Most invested in crypto have nothing to do with mining.

 

[r9]

Precisely speaking: there exists a probability distribution that describes the possible financial results. By increasing the costs you're just making the profit less probable (and lower).


That depends how you look at it. I'm clearly not against blockchain and most of the time I'm not even against cryptocurrencies.
I just have some experience in finance (and in investing in particular). I'm just trying to point out some risks involved in this. And I started doing this when profitability was enormous and this thread was full of people keen to get into mining, spending thousands of USD, buying dozens of cards. Look what happened since then.

Think about it this way. If you go to a bank with some cash to invest, they'll try to give you all the risky products with very high potential return. But your friend or family will tell you not to, that it's all rubbish. How is "playing the negative role" in that situation?

That said, I don't really understand why you're starting mining now. Profitability is really bad - most "home miners" already quit or at least stopped investing into this (looking at GPU prices).

Too bad all my comments on you are getting deleted.
To all stop feeding the troll.
To the troll nobody gives a f$#% about what you think or do.

While you were wasting your time convincing everybody that mining is not a smart investment I did 100% return on my investment.
Invested $700 in one gtx 1070 and two 1060s and already had rx 480.
Even if you don't make money its still fun.
That's something you will never understand.

 

[Vya Domus]

Most invested in crypto have nothing to do with mining.

I'd assume you're talking about the ones that use crypto like the stock market , although I doubt those are the majority. Or maybe those that genuinely believe in crypto as replacement for traditional currency ?

Still , for the rest , like the ones in this thread, it's all about mining you can't say it isn't. Crypto not cypto , they couldn't care less really , it's a way to get some cash nothing more.

 

[R-T-B]

I'd assume you're talking about the ones that use crypto like the stock market

Yes, and those are well established to be the majority. I mean who do you think buys the mined coins? It certainly isn't other miners.

As for the rest, you do realize you can be both a miner and crypto advocate, right?

 

[Vya Domus]

As for the rest, you do realize you can be both a miner and crypto advocate, right?

I do , I just don't think there are many that care about the latter.

 

[R-T-B]

I do , I just don't think there are many that care about the latter.

I agree that's probably true. But that's more a human issue than a crypto issue. People like money... period.

 

[notb]

To the troll nobody gives a f$#% about what you think or do.

Well... I did have a few nice and intelligent conversations in this thread. Not with you, obviously.

While you were wasting your time convincing everybody that mining is not a smart investment I did 100% return on my investment.

No, you didn't (not possible) - unless your cards are second-hand and were cheap. But more likely you just can't calculate properly.
According to your posts you've started mining with your 1060s on 16/06 - 67 days ago, which is more or less the ROI on 1060 from the peak profitability (assuming cheap electricity - e.g. in US).
But profits quickly dropped afterwards, so if you didn't hedge this (unlikely) I'd say you're somewhere around 60-70% ROI.

My bet would be that you're just looking at the total inflow (how much coins generated vs how much you've spent on GPUs since June), so you're most likely "financing" your GTX investment with the RX480 you had earlier. And you might also be forgetting about energy costs.

Even if you don't make money its still fun.
That's something you will never understand.

Well... one can have fun in many ways. I'm not going to evaluate that here!
In this thread I was concentrating purely on the profitability (mean and variance, so to speak).
However, you're right about one thing: I would have absolutely no fun from maintaining mining rigs and optimizing hashrate. That is pretty boring.

And I can also tell you that in the last 2 months I made more on cryptocurrencies than you did. How funny is that? ;-]

 

[r9]

Well... I did have a few nice and intelligent conversations in this thread. Not with you, obviously.

No, you didn't (not possible) - unless your cards are second-hand and were cheap. But more likely you just can't calculate properly.
According to your posts you've started mining with your 1060s on 16/06 - 67 days ago, which is more or less the ROI on 1060 from the peak profitability (assuming cheap electricity - e.g. in US).
But profits quickly dropped afterwards, so if you didn't hedge this (unlikely) I'd say you're somewhere around 60-70% ROI.

My bet would be that you're just looking at the total inflow (how much coins generated vs how much you've spent on GPUs since June), so you're most likely "financing" your GTX investment with the RX480 you had earlier. And you might also be forgetting about energy costs.

Well... one can have fun in many ways. I'm not going to evaluate that here!
In this thread I was concentrating purely on the profitability (mean and variance, so to speak).
However, you're right about one thing: I would have absolutely no fun from maintaining mining rigs and optimizing hashrate. That is pretty boring.

And I can also tell you that in the last 2 months I made more on cryptocurrencies than you did. How funny is that? ;-]

You can look at the ROI the same way for graphics cards vs bitcoin miners for example.
Because when bitcoin miner comes obsolete they doesn't worth a penny.
I can sell the cards tomorrow for profit and keep all the money.

And you keep saying that you can make more money in trading cryptocurrencies than mining.
But that is you, might not apply to me.
Maybe I'm not good in trading, I might even lose money.

All your statements only apply to you: I have this experience I have that diploma etc.
We get it you can make more money other ways, good for you.
Just go and do whatever makes you happy.
This thread is for people who are committed to mining or thinking about starting to mine.
You are not being helpful at all.
So what is your point in all of this ?

 

[notb]

You can look at the ROI the same way for graphics cards vs bitcoin miners for example.
Because when bitcoin miner comes obsolete they doesn't worth a penny.
I can sell the cards tomorrow for profit and keep all the money.

So you're admitting that you haven't really earned what you suggested earlier. You just have a card that you can sell. Correct?
You don't have the money - you only have so called means of production which you may or may not sell.

What you've said there is pretty stupid, to be honest.
It means that for you every investment is instantly profitable, because - assuming you're paying the fair price (= as much as the product will earn in the future) - you can always sell it and get your money back.

And you keep saying that you can make more money in trading cryptocurrencies than mining.
But that is you, might not apply to me.
Maybe I'm not good in trading, I might even lose money.

You could lose money on mining as well.

Putting aside the potential resale value of your cards, can you tell how much you've actually made (mining revenue - energy cost)?
Since you're advertising mining as a great idea, wouldn't showing your results be the best argument to support that claim?

Actually, I don't think I've been putting so much stress on trading earlier. I'm sure I once mentioned hedging, which makes it possible to mine at the price you want, not the current market price.
But this is a basic production concept. All mines (and manufacturers in other industries - e.g. farming) use some financial instruments to lower market risk. It can be hedging, it can be contracting. In the end it's the same thing: there is a financial instrument that guarantees you a particular selling price of your product.
Large crypto mining companies do it as well.

So I merely presented a concept that is widely used in the activity we're discussing here.
This has nothing to do with speculative trading that I do.

All your statements only apply to you: I have this experience I have that diploma etc.

I don't think I've ever mentioned any diploma (I didn't study finance). But someone has already used an argument like this one - a situation I find quite weird. Unless it was you back then as well - that will make you weird, not the situation.

Yes, I have some experience in investment and risk management. I'm trying to share it, because it is useful in the matter we're discussing. Just like you're trying to share your experience in overclocking. What's wrong with that?

And please don't give me answers like "this is a computer enthusiast forum" or "building mining rigs is fun".
People in this thread haven't been asking if starting mining will be fun. They're asking how much can be earned.

This thread is for people who are committed to mining or thinking about starting to mine.

Exactly that! For people who are thinking about starting to mine!
So you think that answers should only be coming from the "committed" people - i.e. "mining is great, do it!", right? No need for someone who will say "you might lose money"?
Are you old enough to remember the 2007 crisis? :-D

You are not being helpful at all. So what is your point in all of this ?

And what is yours?
Your activity here does nothing useful - unlike a few people that gave actual hints on optimizing rigs etc. If anything, you're actually harming people that currently think about starting mining - just like you did in your previous comment about 100% return. All your previous comments were very similar: no risk, free money etc.
So you're either advertising mining or bashing me. That's "being helpful"? :-D

If we made a big pool - asking everyone that started mining after reading this thread, how many would be happy with the outcome? Wanna bet? :-D

 

[trog100]

miners are the workers.. for their efforts they are rewarded with a small amount of coin..

the real money will be made in other more conventional ways.. i have never been a market trader but i am prepared to become a miner.. i have no problems with someone like notb putting across the negatives..

i am also looking forward to all my bits and pieces arriving and putting it all together.. i like fiddling with stuff so i dont view mining as simply a way of making some extra money it is more of a hobby thing with me..

i look forward to this thread continuing and containing some useful information.. hey oh hey ho its off to work we go.. he he..

trog

 

[CAPSLOCKSTUCK]

@trog100

good luck with your new venture/hobby. im looking forward to seeing your results.


I decided to invest in a new hobby for the summer.....fishing. So far, my investment has netted me nothing.

 

[TheoneandonlyMrK]

So you're admitting that you haven't really earned what you suggested earlier. You just have a card that you can sell. Correct?
You don't have the money - you only have so called means of production which you may or may not sell.

What you've said there is pretty stupid, to be honest.
It means that for you every investment is instantly profitable, because - assuming you're paying the fair price (= as much as the product will earn in the future) - you can always sell it and get your money back.


You could lose money on mining as well.

Putting aside the potential resale value of your cards, can you tell how much you've actually made (mining revenue - energy cost)?
Since you're advertising mining as a great idea, wouldn't showing your results be the best argument to support that claim?

Actually, I don't think I've been putting so much stress on trading earlier. I'm sure I once mentioned hedging, which makes it possible to mine at the price you want, not the current market price.
But this is a basic production concept. All mines (and manufacturers in other industries - e.g. farming) use some financial instruments to lower market risk. It can be hedging, it can be contracting. In the end it's the same thing: there is a financial instrument that guarantees you a particular selling price of your product.
Large crypto mining companies do it as well.

So I merely presented a concept that is widely used in the activity we're discussing here.
This has nothing to do with speculative trading that I do.


I don't think I've ever mentioned any diploma (I didn't study finance). But someone has already used an argument like this one - a situation I find quite weird. Unless it was you back then as well - that will make you weird, not the situation.

Yes, I have some experience in investment and risk management. I'm trying to share it, because it is useful in the matter we're discussing. Just like you're trying to share your experience in overclocking. What's wrong with that?

And please don't give me answers like "this is a computer enthusiast forum" or "building mining rigs is fun".
People in this thread haven't been asking if starting mining will be fun. They're asking how much can be earned.


Exactly that! For people who are thinking about starting to mine!
So you think that answers should only be coming from the "committed" people - i.e. "mining is great, do it!", right? No need for someone who will say "you might lose money"?
Are you old enough to remember the 2007 crisis? :-D


And what is yours?
Your activity here does nothing useful - unlike a few people that gave actual hints on optimizing rigs etc. If anything, you're actually harming people that currently think about starting mining - just like you did in your previous comment about 100% return. All your previous comments were very similar: no risk, free money etc.
So you're either advertising mining or bashing me. That's "being helpful"? :-D

If we made a big pool - asking everyone that started mining after reading this thread, how many would be happy with the outcome? Wanna bet? :-D

Time to get helpful then , you mentioned hedging to mine for what price i want , so advise me how would you mine to make the most return on investment ,i mine through a pool already and I've not heard of anywhere to mine or anything to mine where i pick the price i want to mine at.

 

[r9]

So you're admitting that you haven't really earned what you suggested earlier. You just have a card that you can sell. Correct?
You don't have the money - you only have so called means of production which you may or may not sell.

What you've said there is pretty stupid, to be honest.
It means that for you every investment is instantly profitable, because - assuming you're paying the fair price (= as much as the product will earn in the future) - you can always sell it and get your money back.


You could lose money on mining as well.

Putting aside the potential resale value of your cards, can you tell how much you've actually made (mining revenue - energy cost)?
Since you're advertising mining as a great idea, wouldn't showing your results be the best argument to support that claim?

Actually, I don't think I've been putting so much stress on trading earlier. I'm sure I once mentioned hedging, which makes it possible to mine at the price you want, not the current market price.
But this is a basic production concept. All mines (and manufacturers in other industries - e.g. farming) use some financial instruments to lower market risk. It can be hedging, it can be contracting. In the end it's the same thing: there is a financial instrument that guarantees you a particular selling price of your product.
Large crypto mining companies do it as well.

So I merely presented a concept that is widely used in the activity we're discussing here.
This has nothing to do with speculative trading that I do.


I don't think I've ever mentioned any diploma (I didn't study finance). But someone has already used an argument like this one - a situation I find quite weird. Unless it was you back then as well - that will make you weird, not the situation.

Yes, I have some experience in investment and risk management. I'm trying to share it, because it is useful in the matter we're discussing. Just like you're trying to share your experience in overclocking. What's wrong with that?

And please don't give me answers like "this is a computer enthusiast forum" or "building mining rigs is fun".
People in this thread haven't been asking if starting mining will be fun. They're asking how much can be earned.


Exactly that! For people who are thinking about starting to mine!
So you think that answers should only be coming from the "committed" people - i.e. "mining is great, do it!", right? No need for someone who will say "you might lose money"?
Are you old enough to remember the 2007 crisis? :-D


And what is yours?
Your activity here does nothing useful - unlike a few people that gave actual hints on optimizing rigs etc. If anything, you're actually harming people that currently think about starting mining - just like you did in your previous comment about 100% return. All your previous comments were very similar: no risk, free money etc.
So you're either advertising mining or bashing me. That's "being helpful"? :-D

If we made a big pool - asking everyone that started mining after reading this thread, how many would be happy with the outcome? Wanna bet? :-D

So far nothing you said in this thread is helpful to anyone.
Just throwing terms and theories around.
I for example I've been helpful by answered people questions and trying to get rid of you. lol
Second of all I don't try to convince people either way good or bad.
I just give them facts and they need to decide for them selves.
Would I start mining at current condition, provable not.
But I've already put the work in have the machines setup so they don't need my intervention at all they just make me money.
I've sad this before I do a lot of stuff like fixing and modding consoles never saw it as a extra income just something to support my hobbies.

 

[cdawall]

So couple of updates as far as rma service with companies. Now none of these cards have failed while mining, but will be mining after the fact.

EVGA-less than a week turn around first card back bad. This is not the first time I have had this issue with EVGA. The tech argued if the card was bad the second time as well.

Powercolor-going on two weeks now no card back as of yet. Shows completed testing and failed card on their webpage. I assume since it is a 480 this is a stock issue.

MSI-within 2 days of receipt notified card was bad and not replaceable due to no stock offered a buyout that was $130 less than purchase price, MSI offered full refund if I could provide receipt (was on vacation and did not have a copy). Before I had a chance to get the receipt MSI got new cards in and has already shipped a new one back ups ground (will be in Wednesday).

Gigabyte-two cards shipped in together both cards repaired and shipped back within 1.5 weeks this included waiting on parts for the 390. This is the second fully satisfied experience I have had with them. For all the horror stories they seem great to me.

Overall if I had to rate service MSI, GB, powercolor, EVGA in best to worst. Mainly disappointed in the QC if EVGA.

 

[verycharbroiled]

Had to rma a msi 470/4 armor (hynix ram, was dual mining at the time), took about 3 weeks. Got a 470/4 armor with Samsung ram back. Sweet.

Only card I've had to rma, have 6 assorted mining cards currently, plus had maybe 8 others over the years with btc/ltc and f@h that never had any problems aside from a fan failure on a HD4850.

 

[cdawall]

Just picked up a pair of Z170-AR's for $55 each. Going to swap my X99 stuff out. These boards are tested working with 7 GPU's so should help me consolidate up

 

[silkstone]

Just picked up a pair of Z170-AR's for $55 each. Going to swap my X99 stuff out. These boards are tested working with 7 GPU's so should help me consolidate up

I think one of the slots on that is PCI rather than PCIe, no? Wouldn't that mean 6 GPUs max?

https://www.asus.com/us/Motherboards/Z170-AR/specifications/

 

[cdawall]

I think one of the slots on that is PCI rather than PCIe, no? Wouldn't that mean 6 GPUs max?

https://www.asus.com/us/Motherboards/Z170-AR/specifications/

The m.2 slot can be converted over for the 7th card