bitcoin down to $14000.."healthy correction" ..

[R-T-B]

Before "the recent craze" it was worth next to nothing (*cough*what's it's really worth*cough*).

a lot more than next to nothing ford. Consult a price graph. We're talking a couple hundred per btc at worst.

No one could really even profit on mining BTC until courts approved its trade and other cryptocurrencies (especially ETH) began trading.

Profit from holding is not the point of a currency, ford.

Mining is likewise not supposed to be profitable. According to Satoshi himself, it's only supposed to reimburse the electric at best.

 

[FordGT90Concept]

"Price graphs" weren't created until after it established itself as something worth trading. Remember buying a pizza costing thousands of BTC? That probably is about what it was worth in terms of electricity. As you said, it wasn't profitable and only a small population got involved in the beginning. It only became profitable and worth mining after BTC became an intermediary for exchange.

See the irony in there? When it served as a reward for itself, it wasn't a currency and was worth next to nothing. When people started treating it as a currency it became a self destructive pyramid scheme.

 

[Jetster]

 

[R-T-B]

"Price graphs" weren't created until after it established itself as something worth trading.

The craze happened way way later than price graphs, which have existed since the early days of Mt Gox.

It only became profitable and worth mining after BTC became an intermediary for exchange.

Patently false. The majority of 2014-2015 is a prime example of non-profitable mining timeframes. I know, because I lost a lot of money then.

 

[verycharbroiled]

Patently false. The majority of 2014-2015 is a prime example of non-profitable mining timeframes. I know, because I lost a lot of money then.

what were you mining and with what hardware in that timeframe? my memory is a bit hazy (corrupted even?) as i am not even finished with my 1st coffee right now but i think i remember my fpga was *just* able to make a profit around then. barely.

that was around the end of gpu mining (for btc anyway) and the long crypto winter after the mtgox meltdown wasnt it? sorry brain is stalled out, and it wont start up for another few coffees (well hopefully the brain can restart, things look iffy at the moment), so errors in above thinking are purely mine.

 

[R-T-B]

what were you mining and with what hardware in that timeframe? my memory is a bit hazy (corrupted even?) as i am not even finished with my 1st coffee right now but i think i remember my fpga was *just* able to make a profit around then. barely.

that was around the end of gpu mining (for btc anyway) and the long crypto winter after the mtgox meltdown wasnt it? sorry brain is stalled out, and it wont start up for another few coffees (well hopefully the brain can restart, things look iffy at the moment), so errors in above thinking are purely mine.

Litecoin on a gpu.

 

[verycharbroiled]

Litecoin on a gpu.

yeah that seems right, once i switched to btc mining on a fpga i tried litecoin on my gpus. wasnt worth it.

 

[FordGT90Concept]

Patently false. The majority of 2014-2015 is a prime example of non-profitable mining timeframes. I know, because I lost a lot of money then.

You're forgetting that it takes time for government to catch up. "The Commodity Futures Trading Commission, CFTC, classified bitcoin as a commodity in September 2015." That's when it started trending upwards. Everyone could start converting USD to BTC and back again at that point...and so BTC became the USD of crypto.

 

[R-T-B]

You're forgetting that it takes time for government to catch up. "The Commodity Futures Trading Commission, CFTC, classified bitcoin as a commodity in September 2015." That's when it started trending upwards. Everyone could start converting USD to BTC and back again at that point...and so BTC became the USD of crypto.

It was convertible to USD and trending upwards way before then, ford. I was around then. Consult some historical coinbase charts for fun.

 

[trog100]

i am down four f-cking grand down over the last three days its time it started trending upwards again.. he he

and i recon its time some mericans caught up with the fact the US aint the driving force behind crypto.. its the asians..

trog

 

[FordGT90Concept]

It was convertible to USD and trending upwards way before then, ford. I was around then. Consult some historical coinbase charts for fun.

Traded for, sure, directly convertible as a commodity, not so much. There's a big difference between the two.

 

[R-T-B]

Traded for, sure, directly convertible as a commodity, not so much. There's a big difference between the two.

There were direct usd<->btc exchanges operating. What is the difference exactly?

 

[FordGT90Concept]

http://www.cftc.gov/About/MissionResponsibilities/index.htm
TL;DR: it increased confidence in the market by legitimizing it.

 

[R-T-B]

http://www.cftc.gov/About/MissionResponsibilities/index.htm
TL;DR: it increased confidence in the market by legitimizing it.

There were several factors driving it upwards prior. That was certainly a mark of legitimization, but you'll be hard pressed to convince me that is the sole reason it rose so drastically in value.

 

[FordGT90Concept]

Pretty much everyone left BTC for dead. Then CFTC made that announcement, and people started trading altcoins for BTC to convert it to legal tender. It was slow at first but it picked up speed.

 

[notb]

He is in Poland, Warsaw and they do have a different outlook on how an economy should be run.

Wow. This went pretty personal.
The idea of economy in Poland is pretty similar to other European countries, so you don't have to worry that much.

"Poland has a mixed economic system which includes a variety of private freedom, combined with centralized economic planning and government regulation."

F... me. Where is this rubbish quoted from? It's 30 years old at least.
How is it possible that you don't know better?

So from his standpoint, up-bringing, education.. maybe this all does make sense to him..but in a pure capitalist view point his stance just doesn't hold water for me. I mean if his government is dictating what price to set for something then yeah that can sort of remove some of the market perception.

And you're still going on! Man! Use wikipedia or ask your teacher! :-o

Poland is relatively east European poor.. most of them have decamped to the UK.. i have a house full of them next door to me and its rare to hear an english voice in my local aldi super market..

Actually Poland is relatively OK now. Surely, no match for UK, but doing great compared to other EE countries.
And man... for such a successful crypto miner, you're still remaining very humble - buying stuff at a German discount supermarket with all those nasty Poles around you!

I'll open my own thread called 'bitcoin down to $12662... WTF is a bitcoin?' and welcome all the people that would like to share or learn what "intrinsic value" means. That said, I'm sure we'll all learn this sooner or later.

Follow up: how's the learning process going?
Maybe I should have made that thread after all...

 

[R-T-B]

Pretty much everyone left BTC for dead.

Yeah, no.

I mean your free to think what you want, but I can't think of a less accurate assessment of those times from my view.

Follow up: how's the learning process going?
Maybe I should have made that thread after all...

That would be too easy, given the clockwork bitcoin collapses in January.

 

[notb]

That would be too easy, given the clockwork bitcoin collapses in January.

Yeah, I've seen that funny discussion.
But I don't want to write there - I kind of got bored of these quasi-economical disputes. I come here just for entertainment and occasional xenophobic outbursts. :-D

It's not a "clockwork collapse", but just a major correction - sometimes triggered by external effects, sometimes not. These moves are happening few times a year.
The only reason why they seem to happen in January, is that it's a unique month - the first one of the year (i.e. new legal acts in force, change of corporate strategies and so on). I.e. there are a lot of triggers.

And the amplitude of this move is nothing special either. It's just that miners (or crypto supporters) are too attached to the asset and they treat an upward movement as expected, so they're shocked by a correction.

When you look at a 5Y log plot, you can see that BTCUSD is actually beautifully stable.

 

[R-T-B]

Like it or not, even on your chart, it still tanks 10-30% just about every January. I've noticed this for a bit. I made jokes about it being kids selling daddies useless "stocking bitcoin" it's been so long.

 

[notb]

Like it or not, even on your chart, it still tanks 10-30% just about every January. I've noticed this for a bit. I made jokes about it being kids selling daddies useless "stocking bitcoin" it's been so long.

Of course. But it also dropped significantly on 10-15 different occasions since 2014. It gives roughly 1 correction every quarter - distributed fairly regularly (most likely because BTC is a constant bubble ).
What I meant is: assuming there's a correction due in December-February period, early January is the best moment, because of all the year-end triggers. Nothing special about it.

My humble (as always ) suggestion is only this: just because BTC went up after the last 3 corrections in January doesn't mean, that it will happen again. Don't build a pension saving strategy around this.

 

[R-T-B]

Don't build a pension saving strategy around this.

I never would, but I'll make forum bets 'till the cows come home.

 

[ZenZimZaliben]

Wow. This went pretty personal.

It went personal only in the sense that your OPINION is personal and influenced by many factors..one being where you and I live differ quite a bit. Don't take offense just stating there are different ways to look at economics.

"F... me. Where is this rubbish quoted from? It's 30 years old at least.
How is it possible that you don't know better? "

Pulled Directly from US Commercial Service and Wikipedia.

https://globaledge.msu.edu/countries/poland/memo

"And you're still going on! Man! Use wikipedia or ask your teacher! :-o"

See above....

"My humble (as always ) suggestion is only this: "

Nothing about you is Humble...

When BTC falls below $300 I will officially be losing money...until then I just enjoy the ride...buy in these wonderful dips and HOLD.

 

[notb]

https://globaledge.msu.edu/countries/poland/memo

That's a LOL...
1) I don't really know much about this page - is it considered serious / credible in US?
Do they know about the broken HTML?
2) The fragment saying that a country "has a mixed economic system which includes a variety of private freedom, combined with centralized economic planning and government regulation", in exact this form or with slight modifications, appears in summaries of the following countries (and surely many more that I haven't checked):
Germany, France, Ireland, Spain, Poland, Slovakia, Belgium, Netherlands, Sweden, Finland, Croatia, Romania
and also: South Korea, Australia, Egypt, Thailand.

So when you said "they do have a different outlook on how an economy should be run" did you mean most of Europe or much of capitalist world?

 

[R-T-B]

That's a LOL...
1) I don't really know much about this page - is it considered serious / credible in US?

It's a .edu, so it's an educational associated establishment at least.

Do they know about the broken HTML?

What HTML? It's a PDF man.

 

[notb]

It's a .edu, so it's an educational associated establishment at least.

I'm aware of the domain hierarchy, but thank you.
Being an "educational associated establishment" doesn't really tell much about the quality.
@ZenZimZaliben quoted this page like if it was a popular, credible source.

What HTML? It's a PDF man.

If you save it as PDF, it's a PDF. But before that happens, it's just HTML rendered as PDF.
You can actually view the source.
And you can see the broken <p>'s in 2 paragraphs (languages and religions).