Are this black-grey artifacts-squares in dark areas normal?

[bug]

That will take a while RX 580 price are starting to raise again, Vega mid range will be released in 2H 2018?

What if I try monitor on other PC, my friend has Nvidia 8800GT, very old card. Does that matter or it is better to wait for stronger-newer GPU?

That will do the trick. You don't need GPU power for want you need to test. Hell, you can even connect your monitor to an IGP if you have one readily available.

 

[lorcav123]

That will do the trick. You don't need GPU power for want you need to test. Hell, you can even connect your monitor to an IGP if you have one readily available.

In that case should even the integrated gpu from Android box that I tested be enough for that? For display port test my GPU has mini display port so I will need a adapter to use normal DP cable with that. So without buying a new GPU I can test everything

 

[erocker]

If you can do it, do it.

 

[Batou1986]

Pretty sure OP stated that he already tested the monitor on another machine, his mini android box with the same result.

People in this thread keep going back to "video quality" or "GPU" and ignoring the fact that we can rule both those things out due to the monitor displaying the same issues on the android box and it displaying the issue in still images and games.

Its really obvious in this image where there are a bunch of greys and the monitor is adding color that is not there
https://www.techpowerup.com/forums/attachments/dsc_0272-jpg.96070/

This is not the limit of 8-bit color either, I have this exact display which is nothing fancy and I never see this
I did get a new 27" acer monitor that had the exact same problem as OP and it got returned, there are a bunch of people having similar problems with new displays which leads me to believe its an issue with a panel supplier or that VA panels are just garbage.

The problem is the monitor period buying a new GPU for 400 $ minimum isn't going to solve his issue.

 

[bug]

Yeah, I'm leaning towards the monitor as well. Seems to a cheap Samsung one. Maybe FRC acting up?

 

[eidairaman1]

Pretty sure OP stated that he already tested the monitor on another machine, his mini android box with the same result.

People in this thread keep going back to "video quality" or "GPU" and ignoring the fact that we can rule both those things out due to the monitor displaying the same issues on the android box and it displaying the issue in still images and games.

Its really obvious in this image where there are a bunch of greys and the monitor is adding color that is not there
https://www.techpowerup.com/forums/attachments/dsc_0272-jpg.96070/

This is not the limit of 8-bit color either, I have this exact display which is nothing fancy and I never see this
I did get a new 27" acer monitor that had the exact same problem as OP and it got returned, there are a bunch of people having similar problems with new displays which leads me to believe its an issue with a panel supplier or that VA panels are just garbage.

The problem is the monitor period buying a new GPU for 400 $ minimum isn't going to solve his issue.

Ok i misread it earlier, was tired, try the monitor first, if no change then gpu.

 

[OneMoar]

yall are ignoring the fact that his internet is most likely craptacular and this entire thread is based around youtubes shitty compression
everything hes posted with the issue has been youtube or video the gratients look fine the monitor isn't gonna win any Srgb awards but its NOT broken

his crappy camera way overexposing the image is not helping either especially with a Va panel

if he had a broken polarizer or backlight issue he would know it the entire section would be black or white or look like somebody punched it

what we have here is somebody looking for problems where there are none cheap monitor is cheap I have had cheap samsung panels I am looking at one now there is NOTHING WRONG HERE
other then the calibration is Way way off

 

[Batou1986]

yall are ignoring the fact that his internet is most likely craptacular and this entire thread is based around youtubes shitty compression
everything hes posted with the issue has been youtube or video the gratients look fine the monitor isn't gonna win any Srgb awards but its NOT broken

his crappy camera way overexposing the image is not helping either especially with a Va panel

if he had a broken polarizer or backlight issue he would know it the entire section would be black or white or look like somebody punched it

what we have here is somebody looking for problems where there are none cheap monitor is cheap I have had cheap samsung panels I am looking at one now there is NOTHING WRONG HERE
other then the calibration is Way way off

Feel free to actually read and comprehend before posting or continue to look like an ass which seems to be a common theme with your posting.

moving on I found a thread on reddit where someone has the exact same issue with the HP omen.

https://www.reddit.com/r/ultrawidemasterrace/comments/6177cj/hp_omen_x_35_acer_predator_in_quad_monitor_setup/dfc9ove/

http://imgur.com/uJwx4t4

looks exactly like what OP's screen is doing and what the Acer I bought was doing

 

[OneMoar]

Feel free to actually read and comprehend before posting or continue to look like an ass which seems to be a common theme with your posting.

moving on I found a thread on reddit where someone has the exact same issue with the HP omen.

https://www.reddit.com/r/ultrawidemasterrace/comments/6177cj/hp_omen_x_35_acer_predator_in_quad_monitor_setup/dfc9ove/

http://imgur.com/uJwx4t4

looks exactly like what OP's screen is doing and what the Acer I bought was doing

crappy monitor there is nothing wrong here panel quality varies at that price point

he can replace the monitor but he may get one thats worse

 

[lorcav123]

Yeah, I'm leaning towards the monitor as well. Seems to a cheap Samsung one. Maybe FRC acting up?

What is FRC? Can I effect that by software?

crappy monitor there is nothing wrong here panel quality varies at that price point


he can replace the monitor but he may get one thats worse

This is not a crappy monitor. It cost nearly 300€ and it was praised by this reviewer. That page has most deepest reviews of monitors on web, he rarely gives recommendation awards and this monitor got one. It is almost the best VA 1080p panel on the market.

For gradient images I posted you link before of one Asus monitor that has good colors on gradient test but whole line of that model has similar problem like me. I know I posted that mostly from youtube but I also posted images from movies and games. And if you want more proof here is the one, you can`t miss blocky artifacts in pictures I recorded:

Original link:

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt3131050/mediaviewer/rm1190932992

like what OP's screen is doing and what the Acer I bought was doing

Thank you very much for your links and pictures I also read many time that current Samsung quality control is not good. In this post above I posted evidance so that no one can complain that I post mostly from youtube videos. I will try monitor on friend PC and and with DP cable than we'll see.o

 

[bug]

What is FRC? Can I effect that by software?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frame_rate_control

But it's not that, as your monitor doesn't use FRC.

This is not a crappy monitor. It cost nearly 300€ and it was praised by this reviewer. That page has most deepest reviews of monitors on web, he rarely gives recommendation awards and this monitor got one. It is almost the best VA 1080p panel on the market.

Trust me, at that price point quality control is all over the place. You've just learned (the hard way) why you never buy a monitor solely based on reviews and recommendations. You have to go into a store and look at it. Your eyes are the only tool you should trust when buying a monitor (and your ears when buying audio equipment).

But, of course, go ahead and try it with your friend's PC, that'll narrow down your issue. Maybe try other outputs on your video card as well?

 

[DAOWAce]

..or that VA panels are just garbage.

As someone who bought the FG2421 when it was released, I agree wholeheartedly. It was reviewed as being the most "CRT-like" monitor released yet, but VA's issues, good god.

VA panels are garbage. Worse than TN, solely because of their off center contrast shift and black crush. Black levels are better, colors are better, but that doesn't matter when the inherent flaws to VA override their benefits.

Stick with TN or IPS. Preferably IPS, but IPS has that 'glow' that also ruins black levels, albeit worse than VA (and especially those with active dithering).

As for everything you've said, I agree 100%: It's not the GPU; it's the monitor itself.

I'm one of the people who made one of those linked threads about my PB298Q: https://hardforum.com/threads/artifacts-in-dark-scenes.1829007/

Issue:

http://imgur.com/N61qOu9

No issue:

http://imgur.com/Gb0TrpB

Never found a resolution for it and damn well can't afford getting a new monitor, so I've had to deal with less than stellar performance in dark content media.


I believe the main problem is people aren't educated enough to see things like this either in the first place, or as a problem. I've only found mention about this in a single site review of my monitor; everything else has never mentioned it.

Sure, there's hundreds or even thousands of monitors out there now, all with varying panels and factory settings.. it's hard to find something specific about a specific niche monitor. I assume if 20% of the PC gaming population used a single monitor, there'd be hundreds of posts about this from the people who are more technically savvy.

If it's an issue with quality control and only affects certain monitors (like dead pixels, backlight bleed), then this would be an even more convoluted issue than it is now. I've never been able to test, because who has enough money and time to RMA/buy multiple displays and look for this issue? I sure wish I did..

 

[lorcav123]

I think that this is not a VA panel problem. As I stated before I contacted this guy who seen more monitors probably than any of us here and he told me that something is wrong with a picture, that these artifacts are not normal:

https://pcmonitors.info/reviews/archive/

He gave a monitor recommendation award which he rarely gives.

Some positives about color from his review about my monitor:

"Strong vibrancy and varied shade representation, especially following appropriate tweaking in the OSD – a generous colour gamut without wandering into true wide gamut territory"

"Strong contrast performance providing a fairly inky look to dark shades and allowing lighter shades to ‘pop’ out from this. The screen surface was light and left such light shades appearing relatively smooth rather than noticeably grainy"

Negatives from review:

"Slight deviation from the ideal ‘2.2’ curve even after tweaking and slight loss of saturation towards edges and bottom of screen – but about as little of this as we’ve seen from a 27” VA panel"

"Minor ‘black crush’, but a level of detail maintained throughout the screen that puts non-VA panels and in fact many VA panels to shame"

If this was the VA panel problem I think we would here much more complaints of this problem.

Also as stated before, my problem is similar to this Asus TN model, that whole line has that problem:

https://rog.asus.com/forum/showthread.php?88573-PG248Q-Is-this-normal

so it not VA.

On your two pictures you changed brightness?

I will definitely sent monitor to RMA, probably in April because I also have some problems with motherboard so I will sent both of them at a same time, in that case I will be a lot less without PC. And than report here.

@bug

Sorry for long answer, I am doing some house renovation so I didn`t have much time to test it. In my current gpu I have DVI port, monitor has VGA and I have DVI to VGA adapter so I can try with that.

 

[lorcav123]

Little update: Today I received Displayport cable (DP to DP mini) I ordered on Amazon. Same situation with him, nothing changed.

In game Sins of solar empire I have worst color banding-artifacts I`ve seen so far. In color gradient that @bug sent me before on black-white gradient there is visible color banding columns. Other color are fine. I will update next when I send monitor to RMA in April.

 

[bug]

Little update: Today I received Displayport cable (DP to DP mini) I ordered on Amazon. Same situation with him, nothing changed.

In game Sins of solar empire I have worst color banding-artifacts I`ve seen so far. In color gradient that @bug sent me before on black-white gradient there is visible color banding columns. Other color are fine. I will update next when I send monitor to RMA in April.

View attachment 97182View attachment 97184View attachment 97185

Fwiw, those greyscale image show banding on my monitor as well. But the monitor is perfectly fine otherwise. I still haven't figured out why each color separately is fine, but together they cause banding.

 

[lorcav123]

Fwiw, those greyscale image show banding on my monitor as well. But the monitor is perfectly fine otherwise. I still haven't figured out why each color separately is fine, but together they cause banding.

So you see it too on gradient grayscale images...I will upload originals here so the others if they are willing to test it. I can see small colums on Aida64 monitor grayscale test. RMA is imminent

 

[kn00tcn]

i didnt even bother to read page 2, um... games have banding, videos have banding, everything has banding, that is how the math works: if you have a very small change gradient, such as grey 20 to grey 30 (8bit max capable of 255), then you only have 10 steps of brightness that you can store & display, but your screen is more than 10 pixels in dimensions, therefore there will be banding guaranteed

to make banding less ugly, you need dithering, some images do this, some games do this, some videos do this on their source, but many dont...

do not post bad quality photos of your monitor UNLESS you also post a screenshot of that same moment in time for everyone else to view the same image on their own monitor to confirm

videos come with additional issues like blocking, so instead of an organic looking puddle band like on that witcher image, you might see large squares because video compression is designed to be based on human vision, meaning darker colors or small gradients (like an image of the sky) & the differences throughout them are harder to notice, therefore it is a waste of bandwidth to store such colors at high accuracy compared to lighter colors & detailed objects (you may have also noticed, colors like red/green/blue look like they are quarter resolution, this is intentional, human vision perceives contrast more than color, so most jpeg/video compression stores colors in half or quarter resolution compared to brightness in full resolution)

do not think videos will ever look good unless they are extremely high bitrate (50+), i have seen official hollywood blurays with messed up artifacts on a company logo, you are almost always going to be viewing lossy compression, accept it or add post processing to your video player (drivers can also 'enhance'), but i personally dont want to alter the existing quality since it may result in losing details somewhere else

speaking of screenshots, open it in a photo editor or any tool that has an eyedropper, zoom in, now click & drag around on the blocks/spots, hopefully your tool updates the color in realtime while you drag, if you then see that the color does not change in the photo editor, then that means that block is exactly like that as rendered BEFORE it reaches your monitor

 

[lorcav123]

@kn00tcn

I have only banding in gray - black color, other color are fine. I know I posted in the beginning mostly from youtube (video compression) but banding and blocky artifacts is also in pictures, movies and games. Those pictures I posted from Sins of a solar empire looks horrible when gaming (my mobile camera is far from perfect but you can see the problem). As I said many time before the guy who has most deepest monitors reviews on web in mail told me that this is not normal behaviour for my monitor. We are just running in circles here. I will update after RMA.

 

[bug]

@kn00tcn

I have only banding in gray - black color, other color are fine. I know I posted in the beginning mostly from youtube (video compression) but banding and blocky artifacts is also in pictures, movies and games. Those pictures I posted from Sins of a solar empire looks horrible when gaming (my mobile camera is far from perfect but you can see the problem). As I said many time before the guy who has most deepest monitors reviews on web in mail told me that this is not normal behaviour for my monitor. We are just running in circles here. I will update after RMA.

Any chance you can hook your PC into a TV? TVs tend to be better when it comes to banding. But yes, at this point you have to RMA anyway.

 

[lorcav123]

Any chance you can hook your PC into a TV? TVs tend to be better when it comes to banding. But yes, at this point you have to RMA anyway.

Not possible, on this floor I have only some old TV with RCA connection.

 

[Vya Domus]

You are going to RMA and end up getting nowhere. I have never seen a display that doesn't exhibit banding to a certain degree.

And if you want more proof here is the one, you can`t miss blocky artifacts in pictures I recorded:

Original link:

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt3131050/mediaviewer/rm1190932992

I can see those artifacts even on my phone with the brightness all the way up. You are on a witch hunt , the monitor is fine. Don't waste your time any longer.

 

[lorcav123]

You are going to RMA and end up getting nowhere. I have never seen a display that doesn't exhibit banding to a certain degree.



I can see those artifacts even on my phone with the brightness all the way up. You are on a witch hunt , the monitor is fine. Don't waste your time any more.

If you read my thread completely I posted before this problem from some Asus monitor. In short, that model had color banding problems and Asus replaced all monitors that users sent.

https://rog.asus.com/forum/showthread.php?88573-PG248Q-Is-this-normal

 

[Vya Domus]

If you read my thread completely I posted before this problem from some Asus monitor. In short, that model had color banding problems and Asus replaced all monitors that users sent.

https://rog.asus.com/forum/showthread.php?88573-PG248Q-Is-this-normal

Regardless , I have been able to reproduce every single "problem" you posted on both my TV and phone. Of course it varies since all these displays are tuned differently but overall I can say 100% that whatever you are experiencing is due to the content and not due to some faulty hardware. I can guarantee you that you'll see those artifacts on every other monitor given the right combination of brightness/contrast. Maybe this particular monitor is tuned in such a way that it makes it more apparent which is why I suggest trying different color formats and brightness/contrast/gamma settings.

 

[lorcav123]

You could only reproduce problems on youtube videos and some pictures that maybe have banding on themself. Too bad I can`t upload games and movies here I doubt that game Thief and Sins of the solar empire have blocky artifacts inside themself. I tried changing all settings on monitor, didn`t help. Like @Batou1986 mention before there were some problems with "bunch of people having similar problems with new displays which leads me to believe its an issue with a panel supplier" and I also mention that I read that recently Samsung have bad quality control.
Best to suspend this discussion until my RMA update because we are just repeating ourself

All we can is just speculate but time will show who is right

OT: I noticed that with DP cable I can see whole boot procedure but with HDMI picture shows up on Windows welcome screen. Strange

Edit:

I can see those artifacts even on my phone with the brightness all the way up

That with brightness all the ways up, I see them immediately, regarding of brightness.

 

[kn00tcn]

I have only banding in gray - black color, other color are fine. I know I posted in the beginning mostly from youtube (video compression) but banding and blocky artifacts is also in pictures, movies and games. Those pictures I posted from Sins of a solar empire looks horrible when gaming (my mobile camera is far from perfect but you can see the problem). As I said many time before the guy who has most deepest monitors reviews on web in mail told me that this is not normal behaviour for my monitor. We are just running in circles here. I will update after RMA.

send an original PNG screenshot so we can see if the GAME is the one doing it, it's that simple

of course people say it's not normal, did those same people run the same game with the same smoke effect on the same gpu with the same driver???