Ryzen 5 - 2500X or 2400G ?

[AlwaysHope]

After seeing the specs of the 2500X, it just makes the standard 2600 even more appealing...

In theory, the 2500X should have more OC headroom but budget wise 2600 is very competitive. Presuming the pricing of 2500X is where we think it will be...

If the wait is killing you, that CPU is a very good value. And it also has good OC headroom. Temps stay cool as well.

Agreed. Whatever happens, I'll be marrying them to a B450 board. That platform has everything I need without useless features of X470 for my usage scenario.

 

[newtekie1]

In theory, the 2500X should have more OC headroom but budget wise 2600 is very competitive. Presuming the pricing of 2500X is where we think it will be...

In theory, yes, but in practice Ryzen seems to like to stay around 4.0-4.1GHz. So the difference is going to be minor.

 

[lexluthermiester]

In theory, yes, but in practice Ryzen seems to like to stay around 4.0-4.1GHz. So the difference is going to be minor.

Good point. I've been finding that the Ryzen refresh CPU's have been a little better at OCing than the first iterations, generally getting between 4.2ghz - 4.3ghz without a serious bump in voltage.

 

[AlwaysHope]

Good point. I've been finding that the Ryzen refresh CPU's have been a little better at OCing than the first iterations, generally getting between 4.2ghz - 4.3ghz without a serious bump in voltage.

Yep, I'll soon find out & probably end of next week or therabouts with MSI B450 Gaming Pro Carbon. Haven't used MSI since socket 478 days!
going to be sad decomissioning the AM3+ platform... we had our highs n' lows... it was fun though!

 

[newtekie1]

going to be sad decomissioning the AM3+ platform... we had our highs n' lows... it was fun though!

I know exactly the feeling. I've got all the parts to upgrade the FX-8350 rig in my sig, new case, motherboard, CPU, and RAM, but I'm actually having a hard time bringing myself to actually do it...

 

[AlwaysHope]

I know exactly the feeling. I've got all the parts to upgrade the FX-8350 rig in my sig, new case, motherboard, CPU, and RAM, but I'm actually having a hard time bringing myself to actually do it...

I'll just add it to the collection of about 30 yrs worth of systems & parts in perpetual archival storage. I've always regretted selling no longer needed parts.

 

[lexluthermiester]

but I'm actually having a hard time bringing myself to actually do it...

Oh go on, force yourself.

 

[biffzinker]

Yep, I'll soon find out & probably end of next week or therabouts with MSI B450 Gaming Pro Carbon. Haven't used MSI since socket 478 days!

Last MSI board I had was during Socket 478 with a Northwood. Otherwise it's been GIgabyte, Asrock, and Asus. Still miss Abit and the several boards of theirs I bought plus one Epox.

 

[robot zombie]

I'll just add it to the collection of about 30 yrs worth of systems & parts in perpetual archival storage. I've always regretted selling no longer needed parts.

Oh god... ...I'm trying to picture what that space looks like, but I can't. And here I am feeling bad having a few odd mobos and cpus kicking around. I keep telling myself I'll sell them off for upgrades, but I never do. And I don't fully understand why.

For the best, I guess. That can be a vicious cycle.

Really just came here to chime in on the 2600 being a great option here. Killer deal atm.

Got it up to 4.2 with just a little playing around today. Temperatures/voltage are actually lower than my 1200 were at 4.1. Stock boost to 3.9 is already good and it runs super cool/efficient that way. Not sure how high the 2500X will be able to go but I'm betting it's not much higher, if at all, probably not even for all that much less power. Personally I'd go with the 6c/12t over the 4/8 in this particular case, especially given how likely it is to be a small price difference.

I mean, right now, the 2600 is going for ~$165. The 1500x is going for ~$150! That is going to be hard to beat. Could be wrong, but I don't see how the 2500 is gonna be better in any way and I'm assuming the cost difference isn't enough to justify going down. I can't see the 2500x going for much less than $140.

Just from a performance per dollar standpoint, the 2600 is probably gonna be better in the long run. Just because you don't need the 6 now doesn't mean it can't be beneficial later. And of course there's always general performance. Something you're doing probably benefits, even if it's not your first consideration. A couple of extra cores never hurt anything! Especially if they're cheap! And especially given that it's looking like core count is starting to matter a whole lot more. More L3, too, if you care

Though I guess to be fair, I got the 2600 because I do have a use for those extra cores. My goal is audio production and the DAW's I use do benefit from SMT. I just think for the money it's a no brainer. That's me, though. By all means suit yourself. They're both great CPU's! Tough call.

 

[GorbazTheDragon]

Not sure why you present the reduced core count argument and then completely ignore the i3s...

 

[AlwaysHope]

Oh god... ...I'm trying to picture what that space looks like, but I can't. And here I am feeling bad having a few odd mobos and cpus kicking around. I keep telling myself I'll sell them off for upgrades, but I never do. And I don't fully understand why.

For the best, I guess. That can be a vicious cycle.

Really just came here to chime in on the 2600 being a great option here. Killer deal atm.

Got it up to 4.2 with just a little playing around today. Temperatures/voltage are actually lower than my 1200 were at 4.1. Stock boost to 3.9 is already good and it runs super cool/efficient that way. Not sure how high the 2500X will be able to go but I'm betting it's not much higher, if at all, probably not even for all that much less power. Personally I'd go with the 6c/12t over the 4/8 in this particular case, especially given how likely it is to be a small price difference.

I mean, right now, the 2600 is going for ~$165. The 1500x is going for ~$150! That is going to be hard to beat. Could be wrong, but I don't see how the 2500 is gonna be better in any way and I'm assuming the cost difference isn't enough to justify going down. I can't see the 2500x going for much less than $140.

Just from a performance per dollar standpoint, the 2600 is probably gonna be better in the long run. Just because you don't need the 6 now doesn't mean it can't be beneficial later. And of course there's always general performance. Something you're doing probably benefits, even if it's not your first consideration. A couple of extra cores never hurt anything! Especially if they're cheap! And especially given that it's looking like core count is starting to matter a whole lot more. More L3, too, if you care

Though I guess to be fair, I got the 2600 because I do have a use for those extra cores. My goal is audio production and the DAW's I use do benefit from SMT. I just think for the money it's a no brainer. That's me, though. By all means suit yourself. They're both great CPU's! Tough call.

That is with just 2600 & not the X version right?

I recall rationalising to myself back in 09' when obtaining an i7 with prospect of 8 logical cores in Win 7 was appealing, however game engine tech had not caught on until yrs after this. Perhaps the rational for 12 logical cores in windows will pay dividends for us keen on AAA titles in coming yrs?

Butin the bang for buck argument, 2600X is a winner atm, at least in my part of the world.

Going to start a new thread when all the parts arrive & setup for benching.
but I'm afraid early bioses of B450 boards could be limiting factor in OC performance but I hope I'm wrong.

 

[Bill_Bright]

I'll just add it to the collection of about 30 yrs worth of systems & parts in perpetual archival storage. I've always regretted selling no longer needed parts.

Been there done that. But after being accused (and with some truth to it) of being an electronics "hoarder", I decided to clean out my basement store room of old electronics. These included several old "stereo" (yes, 2-channel) receivers, amps, and preamps, cassette players, reel-to-reels, as well as a bunch of old computer parts, printers and monitors, TVs, VCRs, surround sound A/V receivers, and more. All stuff that "I might need someday". But of course, never did.

I ended up taking it out to a local electronic recycling center and they ended up paying me $80 for the steel, aluminum and precious metals found in the old RAM and processors. They took everything but the old CRT monitors. It seems compliance with the EPA requirements for the proper disposal of that tiny drop of mercury found in the cathode ray tubes themselves costs way more than the recycling value of the monitors. I would have had to pay $10 each for them to take the 6 monitors. So I took them back home.

I then printed a "FREE!" sign and taped it to a monitor and lugged it out to the curb. By the time I was carrying the 3rd monitor out to the curb, some guy was loading the first 2 into his truck. He grabbed the rest and I was free!

With all that free space now in my basement, with a nice carpet remnant and fresh coat of paint, I ended up with a nice spare bedroom for when the kids visit.

Bottom line is this, however. By taking all that old obsolete, superseded, legacy hardware to a real electronics recycling center, I kept literally a ton of junk and hazardous waste out the landfills. I am not a tree-hugger but I still felt pretty good about that.

 

[newtekie1]

Oh go on, force yourself.

I'm trying, it is going to be a couple more weeks before I even have the time to dig into that machine.

I'll just add it to the collection of about 30 yrs worth of systems & parts in perpetual archival storage. I've always regretted selling no longer needed parts.

I had that "problem" too. But then I had to move out of the place with the huge basement into a ranch house with no basement. I almost cried when I dropped off the load of stuff with my old Athlon XP 2500+ Barton on it at the electronics recyclers.

 

[AlwaysHope]

Been there done that. But after being accused (and with some truth to it) of being an electronics "hoarder", I decided to clean out my basement store room of old electronics. These included several old "stereo" (yes, 2-channel) receivers, amps, and preamps, cassette players, reel-to-reels, as well as a bunch of old computer parts, printers and monitors, TVs, VCRs, surround sound A/V receivers, and more. All stuff that "I might need someday". But of course, never did.

I ended up taking it out to a local electronic recycling center and they ended up paying me $80 for the steel, aluminum and precious metals found in the old RAM and processors. They took everything but the old CRT monitors. It seems compliance with the EPA requirements for the proper disposal of that tiny drop of mercury found in the cathode ray tubes themselves costs way more than the recycling value of the monitors. I would have had to pay $10 each for them to take the 6 monitors. So I took them back home.

I then printed a "FREE!" sign and taped it to a monitor and lugged it out to the curb. By the time I was carrying the 3rd monitor out to the curb, some guy was loading the first 2 into his truck. He grabbed the rest and I was free!

With all that free space now in my basement, with a nice carpet remnant and fresh coat of paint, I ended up with a nice spare bedroom for when the kids visit.

Bottom line is this, however. By taking all that old obsolete, superseded, legacy hardware to a real electronics recycling center, I kept literally a ton of junk and hazardous waste out the landfills. I am not a tree-hugger but I still felt pretty good about that.

I understand. Having a clan makes one compromise on their hobby. But what about those bargain hunters &/or collectors on ebay or other market places whom may be interested in acquiring some old tech bits?
Constantly surprised at how many users watch & end up bidding or buying decade + old PC hardware in those places. I mean it's not like they wanna run latest version of Win 10 right? let alone with a bunch of apps in it.

Imo, they are probably a bunch of Linux connoisseurs into running custom made OS on old hardware or just into collecting old PC gear. Who knows!

CPU world has forums with enthusiasts into collecting old cpus & gear related to running them.

 

[robot zombie]

That is with just 2600 & not the X version right?

Yep, no X version here, though I was tempted.

I recall rationalising to myself back in 09' when obtaining an i7 with prospect of 8 logical cores in Win 7 was appealing, however game engine tech had not caught on until yrs after this. Perhaps the rational for 12 logical cores in windows will pay dividends for us keen on AAA titles in coming yrs?

It's risky... ...slippery slope where you wind up paying for all kinds of ridiculousness you don't tap into. That said, I think we're at a point where having 6 physical cores is worth it. I wouldn't go out of my way for it - not the 12 threads, but if 6 cores is only a little more money than 4, on the exact same architecture, then it's already worth it now. Many games are already making good use of at least that many cores. On the flipside some will not use all 8 threads, but they might happily use 6 physical cores without SMT! Hehe.

It's the same cycle it's always been. Once a few things catch on and prove the concept, and chip manufacturers start making them more accessible, devs follow quickly. You know that time is coming when 4c/4t is falling into the low end and most mid-range are packing more. If we're at a point where 6c/12t is entering mid-range, then the train on that has already left the station. Developers are going to put to use whatever happens to be the best that most people are likely to be using.

You're right when you say the shift has taken longer than expected before - I saw that, too. But adoption seems higher this time around, and it seems like devs picked it up early. Core/thread counts are shooting wayyy up while buy-in costs are lower than ever. The price/performance is there for the market to grab. AMD is giving away dem threads! We're seeing more very compelling and affordable >4 core threaded offerings already. And you know there will be more, if current trends are any indication. It's no longer the gimmick/parlor trick it was in the FX days, or on intel's end only for super-ultra-high-end $10000 workstations. Anybody can nab one now.

Suppose how you take it depends on who you think is ultimately gonna define the norm... intel, or AMD? I'm not gonna say either way there. But looking at the direction AMD is headed in and how they've shaped the market just in this year so far, there are likely gonna be a whole lot of people with cores to spare very soon, lol. Somebody out there has to recognize that and take advantage of it. It's not so niche anymore. There's already a strong demand for better optimization across more cores. Though on the flipside intel will always have a big share, too. But then it's like, AMD comes in and shakes things up, then intel swoops in and makes it widespread. Doesn't matter who you root for - we know what's coming.

Right now, we're looking at 4c/8t as the new paradigm, imo. Whether it's intel or AMD, that is a reasonable assumption for most people building anything but budget machines now. This is what stuff is gonna be most likely to be better optimized for, and often already is. One can generally get by fine with less, but that's where top performance generally seems to be, clocks/ipc notwithstanding. So the 2500x would be right in that sweet spot, if that's where your heart is. I have to give you that. To me, that's a perfectly reasonable way to go right now. And it'll likely continue to be very good for a long time.

I mean, when moving past 8t, you can almost consider the SMT/HT a nice afterthought. Some people will find SMT/HT useful and the implementations are better than ever before with SMT in particular, but for most what you're really paying for past 4/8 are more physical cores. I guess it comes down to your philosophy. I don't really believe in "holding out." I say pick the best you can for the best price, as of the time when you're buying. The thing you're most likely to be most satisfied with for the longest time at the most reasonable price. Timing is everything I suppose. That's tough to pin down. "Best right now." is more rational, to me.

Basically, if better tech is there and the cost is minor, then to me it makes sense to go with that over what's more "of the times." Just means you'll keep it for that much longer, rather than wishing you hadn't tried to save a little before only to wind up wanting before you're due for an upgrade. As much as I don't like the idea of future proofing, it makes sense within reasonable limitations. And besides... ...in a time when 8 threads are affordable, having 6 physical cores to go around is probably gonna be better than 4 physical with 8 logical, even if the 12 threads to those 6 cores don't entirely get put to use. The 6 cores absolutely will. It's beneficial both now and in the future. Just because it's not a "must have" right now doesn't mean it can't be a "do want" if the price is right

Lots of here/there to that whole argument, I know. I myself am not setting anything in stone, nor do I wanna go too deep down the rabbit hole of pros/cons to higher core counts, ipc, SMT latency, yadda yadda. Just kinda sayin how it looks to me right now. To me it's a very personal thing. All anyone can do is look at the facts and make a judgement call. Even the most knowledgeable of us are not soothsayers. Some people get pretty heated about it, but to me there's no wrong way to play the upgrade game. With enough experience, you know best what's gonna make you happy and how to get there. Just as I know what makes me happy

Butin the bang for buck argument, 2600X is a winner atm, at least in my part of the world.

Oh absolutely. I've been watching the x vs non-x and the better value propositions tends to vary depending on where/when you are. When I jumped, the 2600 made more sense. May not always be true.

 

[Bill_Bright]

But what about those bargain hunters &/or collectors on ebay or other market places whom may be interested in acquiring some old tech bits?
Constantly surprised at how many users watch & end up bidding or buying decade + old PC hardware in those places.

But if we could follow-up 6 months or a year later and found out if they actually put that hardware to good use, I bet many would say it is still sitting on a shelf somewhere. I also think many buy just in the hopes they can turn around and sell it for a profit. And there's nothing wrong with that, if they can. But my fear is this hardware, much of which contains hazardous materials, ends up in a dump somewhere instead of being properly disposed of or recycled.