• Welcome to TechPowerUp Forums, Guest! Please check out our forum guidelines for info related to our community.

Power supply analyzer for better OC or longer PC life

Edgaras006

New Member
Joined
Feb 14, 2019
Messages
8 (0.00/day)
Hello everybody,

I am designing a power supply analyzer which will monitor your power supply output voltage ripple and I would like to have some feedback from the community (weather or not you would be interested in such device).

Output voltage ripple is one of the most important parameters for any switching power supply, because it shows the quality of output voltage, but not only that. It also reveals when the power supply is reaching its load limit or when output/input capacitors need to be replaced. I know caps are not the only point of failure in power supplies, but in 99,9% cases it is, so I believe we can rely on that.

For example, when overclocking system with several 12V rails you might be approaching power limit on a single rail, but drawing way less than rated power supply power. My analyzer would show that. Also, you would be able to see how your power supply ages, because output voltage ripple increase over time. When it goes over ATX specification limit alarm will warn you about that.

This device is far from complete but this is how it looks now (3D render attached). Schematics design is half completed.

I would like to hear if you would be interested in a device like this or maybe you would like to have some features which I did not mention.
 

Attachments

  • PSU analyzer 3D model.png
    PSU analyzer 3D model.png
    694 KB · Views: 460
Joined
May 3, 2014
Messages
965 (0.27/day)
System Name Sham Pc
Processor i5-2500k @ 4.33
Motherboard INTEL DZ77SL 50K
Cooling 2 bay res. "2L of fluid in loop" 1x480 2x360
Memory 16gb 4x4 kingstone 1600 hyper x fury black
Video Card(s) hfa2 gtx 780 @ 1306/1768 (xspc bloc)
Storage 1tb wd red 120gb kingston on the way os, 1.5Tb wd black, 3tb random WD rebrand
Display(s) cibox something or other 23" 1080p " 23 inch downstairs. 52 inch plasma downstairs 15" tft kitchen
Case 900D
Audio Device(s) on board
Power Supply xion gaming seriese 1000W (non modular) 80+ bronze
Software windows 10 pro x64
if it fits in a drive bay where an optical drive used to live, and it was able to not introduce issues or vdrops then it would be nice to have for those of us who always monitor our system variables.

but if it is 100% independent of the pc, then we already have things like that.
 

Edgaras006

New Member
Joined
Feb 14, 2019
Messages
8 (0.00/day)
I forgot to mention it, yes it sits in the optical drive bay. It will not introduce any voltage drop for +5, +3.3, +12V1, for other voltage there might be few mOhms of resistance which will not cause any issues.

I had not had plans for connecting it to USB. Well, I had but as an optional feature which would be introduced something like 6 months after launch.

Could you show me what you had in mind saying "but if it is 100% independent of the pc, then we already have things like that. "?
 
Joined
May 3, 2014
Messages
965 (0.27/day)
System Name Sham Pc
Processor i5-2500k @ 4.33
Motherboard INTEL DZ77SL 50K
Cooling 2 bay res. "2L of fluid in loop" 1x480 2x360
Memory 16gb 4x4 kingstone 1600 hyper x fury black
Video Card(s) hfa2 gtx 780 @ 1306/1768 (xspc bloc)
Storage 1tb wd red 120gb kingston on the way os, 1.5Tb wd black, 3tb random WD rebrand
Display(s) cibox something or other 23" 1080p " 23 inch downstairs. 52 inch plasma downstairs 15" tft kitchen
Case 900D
Audio Device(s) on board
Power Supply xion gaming seriese 1000W (non modular) 80+ bronze
Software windows 10 pro x64
Joined
Dec 31, 2009
Messages
19,366 (3.72/day)
Benchmark Scores Faster than yours... I'd bet on it. :)
Neat... but, really this is living in the minutia...even for enthusiasts. Most people, even here at an 'enthusiast' site, dont even know what ripple is. Also, people in this group are generally educated enough and tend to overbuy on PSUs so very few are close to the limits with how users here suggest to size them.

How does it tell caps need to be replaced? And what good is that information, really? It tells a user to RMA or go buy another, yes?

Multirail psus arent as common as they were and half which claim they are... are not.

It's an interesting product and kudos for the idea...but, cant say I want to live in that part of my system/psu, personally. I'd also rather have a GUI than something in my 5.25" bay (some cases dont nbn have one).

lol, that costs thousands of dollars and isnt consumer friendly...:laugh:
 

Edgaras006

New Member
Joined
Feb 14, 2019
Messages
8 (0.00/day)
My initial idea was to replace this beast this small and way cheaper device which measure parameters of PSU operating in real system at real time.
 
Joined
May 3, 2014
Messages
965 (0.27/day)
System Name Sham Pc
Processor i5-2500k @ 4.33
Motherboard INTEL DZ77SL 50K
Cooling 2 bay res. "2L of fluid in loop" 1x480 2x360
Memory 16gb 4x4 kingstone 1600 hyper x fury black
Video Card(s) hfa2 gtx 780 @ 1306/1768 (xspc bloc)
Storage 1tb wd red 120gb kingston on the way os, 1.5Tb wd black, 3tb random WD rebrand
Display(s) cibox something or other 23" 1080p " 23 inch downstairs. 52 inch plasma downstairs 15" tft kitchen
Case 900D
Audio Device(s) on board
Power Supply xion gaming seriese 1000W (non modular) 80+ bronze
Software windows 10 pro x64
lol, that costs thousands of dollars and isnt consumer friendly...:laugh:


lol its true enough.
But if i wanted a independent test system for psu;s i think id be buying that.
Which is why i was saying if it sits in my drive bay id probably be more likley to buy one. i like to know whjats going on with my psu especially when overclocking. sometimes a bad oc is just the psu's fault. (especially on a gpu) so its nice to know.
but price is a factor here for a end user system. i cant see people spending more on this than they did the psu.
 
Joined
Jun 15, 2016
Messages
1,042 (0.37/day)
Location
Pristina
System Name My PC
Processor 4670K@4.4GHz
Motherboard Gryphon Z87
Cooling CM 212
Memory 2x8GB+2x4GB @2400GHz
Video Card(s) XFX Radeon RX 580 GTS Black Edition 1425MHz OC+, 8GB
Storage Intel 530 SSD 480GB + Intel 510 SSD 120GB + 2x500GB hdd raid 1
Display(s) HP envy 32 1440p
Case CM Mastercase 5
Audio Device(s) Sbz ZXR
Power Supply Antec 620W
Mouse G502
Keyboard G910
Software Win 10 pro
It's a good idea but very few people will need this so i don't think it's profitable.
 

Edgaras006

New Member
Joined
Feb 14, 2019
Messages
8 (0.00/day)
EarthDog>>>Ripple shape an amplitude can tell a lot about power supply caps and sometimes even transistors health. I have not dug that deep, but I suspect it can even give some information about PSU topology. As an EE working with power supplies and measurement devices I can tell when which caps are going bad. In the initial version I will be monitoring and analyzing only amplitudes, but switching frequency monitoring should be done too. That alone gives so much info about what is going on.

About optical drive bay. I could probably fit it in HDD try too, but hardly in 2.5" slot.
 
Joined
Dec 31, 2009
Messages
19,366 (3.72/day)
Benchmark Scores Faster than yours... I'd bet on it. :)
My initial idea was to replace this beast this small and way cheaper device which measure parameters of PSU operating in real system at real time.
It is a cool idea, no getting around that... but the data is just not terribly relevant for an overwhelming majority of users.

How much, ballpark, will this thing cost?

EarthDog>>>Ripple shape an amplitude can tell a lot about power supply caps and sometimes even transistors health. I have not dug that deep, but I suspect it can even give some information about PSU topology. As an EE working with power supplies and measurement devices I can tell when which caps are going bad. In the initial version I will be monitoring and analyzing only amplitudes, but switching frequency monitoring should be done too. That alone gives so much info about what is going on.

About optical drive bay. I could probably fit it in HDD try too, but hardly in 2.5" slot.
Whats with the bold? LOL

This is great info for an EE, but IMO its simply too much useless data for most end users, even enthusiasts. Besides all one has to do is look up reputable reviews and see. Sure things change over time but what good does supposedly knowing do for the end user? I just don't see a good purpose for it outside of additional data sets.
 

Edgaras006

New Member
Joined
Feb 14, 2019
Messages
8 (0.00/day)
It's a good idea but very few people will need this so i don't think it's profitable.

If I could find a few hundred buyers, that would be good enough for me.

At the moment (I expect low volume as I said few hundreds) I was thinking about selling it maybe for100 Euro, but there are lots of variables at play. Whether or not I get better deals from suppliers. Case manufacturing and so on. Needless to say, I am trying to get a lower price.
 
Joined
May 3, 2014
Messages
965 (0.27/day)
System Name Sham Pc
Processor i5-2500k @ 4.33
Motherboard INTEL DZ77SL 50K
Cooling 2 bay res. "2L of fluid in loop" 1x480 2x360
Memory 16gb 4x4 kingstone 1600 hyper x fury black
Video Card(s) hfa2 gtx 780 @ 1306/1768 (xspc bloc)
Storage 1tb wd red 120gb kingston on the way os, 1.5Tb wd black, 3tb random WD rebrand
Display(s) cibox something or other 23" 1080p " 23 inch downstairs. 52 inch plasma downstairs 15" tft kitchen
Case 900D
Audio Device(s) on board
Power Supply xion gaming seriese 1000W (non modular) 80+ bronze
Software windows 10 pro x64
thinking you may find it hard to develop, manufacture and supply it at €100 whilst making a profit.
 
Joined
Dec 31, 2009
Messages
19,366 (3.72/day)
Benchmark Scores Faster than yours... I'd bet on it. :)
That is pricey for its yields for the end user. I'd rather take 1 min to search for a proper review and just buy it than to add on a tool. You say this is for better overclocking, but, really, how bad does ripple have to be to affect ambient overclocking? Maybe this can be good for users who buy crap PSUs... but, those who are spending $40 on PSUs aren't buying $100+ PSU monitor.

As much as I love data and numbers and am a hardcore enthusiast, I wish the data it provided tickled me more. If it doesn't tickle a hardcore guy, I fear it will be really lost on the majority (that or they get it because of window dressing).

GL to you!! :)
 
Last edited:
Joined
Jul 16, 2014
Messages
8,115 (2.29/day)
Location
SE Michigan
System Name Dumbass
Processor AMD Ryzen 7800X3D
Motherboard ASUS TUF gaming B650
Cooling Artic Liquid Freezer 2 - 420mm
Memory G.Skill Sniper 32gb DDR5 6000
Video Card(s) GreenTeam 4070 ti super 16gb
Storage Samsung EVO 500gb & 1Tb, 2tb HDD, 500gb WD Black
Display(s) 1x Nixeus NX_EDG27, 2x Dell S2440L (16:9)
Case Phanteks Enthoo Primo w/8 140mm SP Fans
Audio Device(s) onboard (realtek?) - SPKRS:Logitech Z623 200w 2.1
Power Supply Corsair HX1000i
Mouse Steeseries Esports Wireless
Keyboard Corsair K100
Software windows 10 H
Benchmark Scores https://i.imgur.com/aoz3vWY.jpg?2
I'm with @EarthDog on this. It will be considered a niche product. Some power supplies monitor some output and have USB connections, Corsair HXi series for example, is enough for most average users and collectors of "neat stuff".


I would like to know how you you would plug this into an existing system. How do you get your input feed. And why not a use a digital Ohhhh-scope.
 

Edgaras006

New Member
Joined
Feb 14, 2019
Messages
8 (0.00/day)
Shambles1980>>>You are absolutely right. In fact, I do not expect to earn much if any. I generally do not like to though things away, especially if I can to repair it. Repairing PSUs with bad caps is easy and cheap. Usually, sub $10 for parts and about an hour of work. I like to repair stuff and bring it back to life, so I want this device for my self in the first place. I have not thrown away any single PSU yet in more than a decade from 5 PCs which runs around 100 hours a week each. PCs saw many upgrades, but PSUs are repaired and keep on going.

Later I thought that I might not be the only one who wishes to have a rock solid system (even if it is i7-920 at 4.2GHz, like mine)

That having said, it takes a lot of time to make a quality device even for good electronics engineer. So I decided to develop a device and share it with a world on kick starter or something similar, but before that, I want to check if anybody would be interested in it.

DeathtoGnomes>>>Corsair HXi do not measure output voltage ripple and frequency which my device will do. These parameters are key. .. and I agree Corsair HXi is just a nice looking thing without benefit for end users.
 

AsRock

TPU addict
Joined
Jun 23, 2007
Messages
18,851 (3.08/day)
Location
UK\USA
Processor AMD 3900X \ AMD 7700X
Motherboard ASRock AM4 X570 Pro 4 \ ASUS X670Xe TUF
Cooling D15
Memory Patriot 2x16GB PVS432G320C6K \ G.Skill Flare X5 F5-6000J3238F 2x16GB
Video Card(s) eVga GTX1060 SSC \ XFX RX 6950XT RX-695XATBD9
Storage Sammy 860, MX500, Sabrent Rocket 4 Sammy Evo 980 \ 1xSabrent Rocket 4+, Sammy 2x990 Pro
Display(s) Samsung 1080P \ LG 43UN700
Case Fractal Design Pop Air 2x140mm fans from Torrent \ Fractal Design Torrent 2 SilverStone FHP141x2
Audio Device(s) Yamaha RX-V677 \ Yamaha CX-830+Yamaha MX-630 Infinity RS4000\Paradigm P Studio 20, Blue Yeti
Power Supply Seasonic Prime TX-750 \ Corsair RM1000X Shift
Mouse Steelseries Sensei wireless \ Steelseries Sensei wireless
Keyboard Logitech K120 \ Wooting Two HE
Benchmark Scores Meh benchmarks.
As much as i like the idea, i personally use a Zalman fan controller that tell me the wattage and really nice to have some thing all in one that did that and what is shown above. be nice with alarms too.

But $100+ yeah isn't going to happen for me at least.
 
Joined
Dec 31, 2009
Messages
19,366 (3.72/day)
Benchmark Scores Faster than yours... I'd bet on it. :)
You really should stop writing in bold Edgar, wth? lol


Repairing PSUs with bad caps is easy and cheap. Usually, sub $10 for parts and about an hour of work. I like to repair stuff and bring it back to life, so I want this device for my self in the first place. I have not thrown away any single PSU yet in more than a decade from 5 PCs which runs around 100 hours a week each. PCs saw many upgrades, but PSUs are repaired and keep on going.
You sir, are a self described EE. EE's have the know how to work inside a PSU. 99.9% of people here, and 99.9999% of people in the wild, don't. ANd for us, its dangerous to be poking around and desoldering/resoldering caps, etc. PSUs are disposable items to the overwhelming majority... this tool doesn't suddenly give people the skills to tear apart a PSU.
Later I thought that I might not be the only one who wishes to have a rock solid system (even if it is i7-920 at 4.2GHz, like mine)
But this doesn't make it a rock solid system... it just tells you information... information that can easily be seen by looking at a quality review (JG, here, Hard, Overclockers.com, etc).
 
Joined
Sep 17, 2014
Messages
20,773 (5.97/day)
Location
The Washing Machine
Processor i7 8700k 4.6Ghz @ 1.24V
Motherboard AsRock Fatal1ty K6 Z370
Cooling beQuiet! Dark Rock Pro 3
Memory 16GB Corsair Vengeance LPX 3200/C16
Video Card(s) ASRock RX7900XT Phantom Gaming
Storage Samsung 850 EVO 1TB + Samsung 830 256GB + Crucial BX100 250GB + Toshiba 1TB HDD
Display(s) Gigabyte G34QWC (3440x1440)
Case Fractal Design Define R5
Audio Device(s) Harman Kardon AVR137 + 2.1
Power Supply EVGA Supernova G2 750W
Mouse XTRFY M42
Keyboard Lenovo Thinkpad Trackpoint II
Software W10 x64
My initial idea was to replace this beast this small and way cheaper device which measure parameters of PSU operating in real system at real time.

The problem here is that if your PSU isn't operating in safe ranges, it probably has an adverse effect on the system already, with or without monitoring.

Monitoring is done under the assumption that you can still prevent a problem or you can analyze a problem better. For example, rising component temperatures. They rise slowly or they continuously show an equilibrium temp with some variance. You monitor this because depending on system load which is variable, temperatures can change and it can affect performance or stability. It allows you to hit the stop or exit button well in time. And it allows you to identify a possible problem ahead of time or support the idea that temps caused it.

With power delivery, that is a whole other story. Power delivery is instantaneous and you'll never be faster than it changing or failing. You also can't monitor it in the same way, and if you did, you'd be looking at the same number most of the time, while any change is never of any impact to your PC experience - until it actually goes wrong and the part fails. In that case, both your analyzer and the rig it is in are also dead.

Last but not least, there is no tweakers' element here which is generally the incentive to monitor things. You can't really modify a PSU to make it work better, run cooler, or provide more juice. Its a different world entirely as the one of fans, shrouds, water cooling and component features. A PSU is and always will be that simple blunt instrument that either 'works, or it doesn't'.
 

Edgaras006

New Member
Joined
Feb 14, 2019
Messages
8 (0.00/day)
I am new in this forum, so I didn't know I was writing in bold. I should have previewed my message.

Vayra86, you made good points. Thank you, but one assumption is wrong. Failure of the power supply can be diagnosed long before it happens. There is such thing called ATX specification. For example, 12V supply can have up to 120mV of ripple (instantaneous fluctuation), that is not what you are measuring with a multimeter. Well technically you could, but that would be very expensive multimeter with at least 20MHz bandwidth. Anyway, that is rather complex measurement (easily done with an oscilloscope and proper probes).

Again on 12V rail, you could have 120mV of ripple, but the system will work just fine with 200mV of ripple too, but in case of sudden increase in load there might be some freezes or hibernation problems, increased power dissipation and thus temperatures on VRMs, reduced stabile overclocking clocks and stuff like that. My device would alarm you if ripple goes out of spec and you will know that problem up front waits you even if you own three years old Seasonic Prime.

Thank you, everybody. I will check in several other forums, but if the general trend keeps like this I might just make one for my own use.
 
D

Deleted member 185158

Guest
This would be good for a business practice with lots of work stations maybe.

For a guy like me.... well I have 2 main PSUs. 1000w and 850w and are over 5 years old. I consider them scrap if a power issue occurs and buy another PSU. Won't need a machine to tell me, and occasionally a PSU that pops, takes hardware with it. Also this machine will be useless if my board is toast.

A ripple from a PSU is generally stabilized by the motherboard. Nobody cares much about a PSU output ripple.
 
Joined
May 3, 2014
Messages
965 (0.27/day)
System Name Sham Pc
Processor i5-2500k @ 4.33
Motherboard INTEL DZ77SL 50K
Cooling 2 bay res. "2L of fluid in loop" 1x480 2x360
Memory 16gb 4x4 kingstone 1600 hyper x fury black
Video Card(s) hfa2 gtx 780 @ 1306/1768 (xspc bloc)
Storage 1tb wd red 120gb kingston on the way os, 1.5Tb wd black, 3tb random WD rebrand
Display(s) cibox something or other 23" 1080p " 23 inch downstairs. 52 inch plasma downstairs 15" tft kitchen
Case 900D
Audio Device(s) on board
Power Supply xion gaming seriese 1000W (non modular) 80+ bronze
Software windows 10 pro x64
You could mitigate ripplee with this device by filling it full of caps, but then that increases costs and adds an extra failure point.
 
Joined
Jul 16, 2014
Messages
8,115 (2.29/day)
Location
SE Michigan
System Name Dumbass
Processor AMD Ryzen 7800X3D
Motherboard ASUS TUF gaming B650
Cooling Artic Liquid Freezer 2 - 420mm
Memory G.Skill Sniper 32gb DDR5 6000
Video Card(s) GreenTeam 4070 ti super 16gb
Storage Samsung EVO 500gb & 1Tb, 2tb HDD, 500gb WD Black
Display(s) 1x Nixeus NX_EDG27, 2x Dell S2440L (16:9)
Case Phanteks Enthoo Primo w/8 140mm SP Fans
Audio Device(s) onboard (realtek?) - SPKRS:Logitech Z623 200w 2.1
Power Supply Corsair HX1000i
Mouse Steeseries Esports Wireless
Keyboard Corsair K100
Software windows 10 H
Benchmark Scores https://i.imgur.com/aoz3vWY.jpg?2
@DeathtoGnomes>>>Corsair HXi do not measure output voltage ripple and frequency which my device will do. These parameters are key. .. and I agree Corsair HXi is just a nice looking thing without benefit for end users.
You skirted my question, thats fine. As has been said, majority of users do not need to monitor bells and whistles, what you refer to as ripple or frequency.
 

dorsetknob

"YOUR RMA REQUEST IS CON-REFUSED"
Joined
Mar 17, 2005
Messages
9,105 (1.31/day)
Location
Dorset where else eh? >>> Thats ENGLAND<<<
Thank you, everybody. I will check in several other forums, but if the general trend keeps like this I might just make one for my own use.
Build your prototype (for Yourself) (It is a good project)
You can then after extensive Testing give a valid Opinion (till then everything is an assumption)
 

satrianiboys

New Member
Joined
Feb 27, 2018
Messages
20 (0.01/day)
I am new in this forum, so I didn't know I was writing in bold. I should have previewed my message.

Vayra86, you made good points. Thank you, but one assumption is wrong. Failure of the power supply can be diagnosed long before it happens. There is such thing called ATX specification. For example, 12V supply can have up to 120mV of ripple (instantaneous fluctuation), that is not what you are measuring with a multimeter. Well technically you could, but that would be very expensive multimeter with at least 20MHz bandwidth. Anyway, that is rather complex measurement (easily done with an oscilloscope and proper probes).

Again on 12V rail, you could have 120mV of ripple, but the system will work just fine with 200mV of ripple too, but in case of sudden increase in load there might be some freezes or hibernation problems, increased power dissipation and thus temperatures on VRMs, reduced stabile overclocking clocks and stuff like that. My device would alarm you if ripple goes out of spec and you will know that problem up front waits you even if you own three years old Seasonic Prime.

Thank you, everybody. I will check in several other forums, but if the general trend keeps like this I might just make one for my own use.

Just a quick question, rather OOT, just my curiosity
If power supply loses some of it's power, let's say 1 year ago it's ok for dual GPU use but now it can only working with 1, what parts presumably need to be replaced?
Pardon me as if i'm not too technical in terms so a picture would explain better. For example i don't understand which input/output caps as you said before.

if i could understand that, then maybe i could understand the better use of the product.
 
Joined
Feb 3, 2017
Messages
3,475 (1.33/day)
Processor R5 5600X
Motherboard ASUS ROG STRIX B550-I GAMING
Cooling Alpenföhn Black Ridge
Memory 2*16GB DDR4-2666 VLP @3800
Video Card(s) EVGA Geforce RTX 3080 XC3
Storage 1TB Samsung 970 Pro, 2TB Intel 660p
Display(s) ASUS PG279Q, Eizo EV2736W
Case Dan Cases A4-SFX
Power Supply Corsair SF600
Mouse Corsair Ironclaw Wireless RGB
Keyboard Corsair K60
VR HMD HTC Vive
Does it include a data logger and/or some easily enough usable output interface?
 
Top