Epic Games Gives Mesmerizing Look at Unreal Engine 5 Running Real Time on PlayStation 5

[ARF]

We are talking about 2080 - 2080super level GPUs in PS5/XSeX.

Even if there is something for $250 that beats those (there won't be, not even remotely) that would barely change the landscape any time soon.

RTX 2080 is 15% faster than the RX 5700 XT while RTX 2080 S is 22% faster than the RX 5700 XT.
You could buy an RX 5700 for $324. And you can flash it with RX 5700 XT BIOS and achieve its performance.

Navi 2X, that is Navi 23 ~240 sq. mm GPU and Navi 22 ~350 sq. mm with 50% higher performance per watt will most probably beat these ^^^^^^^ and cost from around $250.

 

[ValenOne]

This is not system wars Ron, it is just stating that these consoles are up there with PC, the hardware spec is of a much better and much more potent ability than PS4 or XBOX One was in retrospect to the hardware availible on PC.

But because people like to throw around 0.001% usage components as a counter-argument i call them out on how stupid they sound when literally no one buys them.
Ryzen 3000 Threadripper for gaming? get real.

2080Ti.. again a card that is very fast, great card, but for the cost.. no one is really going to buy it save for the top tier elitists who need that performance and have the money to go with it, the every day consumer will be eating up equivelent spec to these consoles.

Now back to you Ron, with your need to insult without using your brain.

You're still wrong with Threadripper Zen 2 not being good for gaming. Stop dodging your own stupid argument of envy.

Challenge = troll.

So you give up but want to win even though you can't back up anything you say.

So passive - aggressive, you are a troll, off loads responsibility from you so you look better..

Whatever you wish for mate, good luck.

The argument of envy is not a technical argument. Try again.

 

[Decryptor009]

You're still wrong with Threadripper Zen 2 not being good for gaming. Stop dodging your own stupid argument of envy.


The argument of envy is not a technical argument. Try again.

Yes i am really envious of a £1200 - 3000 CPU...

You really are trying so hard, it's terrible, the price is just insane for any sane minded person who only wants to game. For that reason it is shit, benchmarks are not everything, and most PC enthusiasts and gamers are not going to spend 1 - 3k on a CPU.


I can't help it if you dislike my choice of words, but to me anything is shit if i can't afford it, it may aswell be, it's just an inanimate object..
I would not say that to someone who owns one, that's not how i think, i just use the word shit as a shortened way of explaining why i won't buy it, less for me to say, easier for moe to move on, which is what would be nice, if you would let people move on Ron.

Or do you need to try yet more manipulation?

 

[ValenOne]

Yes i am really envious of a £1200 - 3000 CPU...

You really are trying so hard, it's terrible, the price is just insane for any sane minded person who only wants to game. For that reason it is shit, benchmarks are not everything, and most PC enthusiasts and gamers are not going to spend 1 - 3k on a CPU.


I can't help it if you dislike my choice of words, but to me anything is shit if i can't afford it, it may aswell be, it's just an inanimate object..
I would not say that to someone who owns one, that's not how i think, i just use the word shit as a shortened way of explaining why i won't buy it, less for me to say, easier for moe to move on, which is what would be nice, if you would let people move on Ron.

Or do you need to try yet more manipulation?

Again, you're still wrong with Threadripper Zen 2 not being good for gaming. Stop dodging your own stupid argument of envy.



I source my PC components from USA e.g. https://pcpartpicker.com/products/cpu/#F=79&sort=price&page=1

 

[Decryptor009]

Again, you're still wrong with Threadripper Zen 2 not being good for gaming and productivity. Stop dodging your own stupid argument of envy.

View attachment 155280

You just added stuff in there, i said it's shit for gaming, my wallet says so, learn what opinions are jerk.

Great for productivity yes, did anyone mentioned that? no... adding crap as you see fit Ron.

As i stated before though, you are this stupid on Gamespot. I don't have an account on there by the way, i read the place quite a lot.

 

[ValenOne]

You just added stuff in there, i said it's shit for gaming, my wallet says so, learn what opinions are jerk.

Great for productivity yes, did anyone mentioned that? no... adding crap as you see fit Ron.

As i stated before though, you are this stupid on Gamespot. I don't have an account on there by the way, i read the place quite a lot.

You're still wrong and stupid. You go back to gamespot. Hypocrite, Hint: I Joined TPU on Nov 4, 2011.

No, you are becoming a troll

Well done, sir. Ticket confirmed.

Decryptor009 has arguments about wealth envy and has departed from the technical discussion.

 

[Decryptor009]

There is nothing more to say, i added a laughing emoticon to your post because i genuinely laughed at how stupid your post is.

Wearing a time stamp of when you joined as some badge of honor or way of making you seem smarter than you actually are, you have trolled and tried to throw me off the entire time with manipulative tactics, now you are stringing a person that you hope has the same view because his prior opinion was me being a troll, well done on the social manipulation Ron, still no where near intelligent enough to understand the dynamics of the market and what PC gamers are truly going to be buying through statistical means.

This is my last post to you, because you are a lost cause and a very sour person.

 

[Shatun_Bear]

The PS5 SSD, to use Sweeney's words, is 'god-tier'. Not just the speed but the I/O and how closely integrated it is to the rest of the system (memory, GPU, CPU).

I really hope PC gaming hardware slowly moves closer to the tight integration of currently disparate components into one super efficient package. Brute forcing can only go so far. We'll only likely get this in an APU.

 

[londiste]

The PS5 SSD, to use Sweeney's words, is 'god-tier'. Not just the speed but the I/O and how closely integrated it is to the rest of the system (memory, GPU, CPU).
I really hope PC gaming hardware slowly moves closer to the tight integration of currently disparate components into one super efficient package. Brute forcing can only go so far. We'll only likely get this in an APU.

Based on what we know so far, the drives are standard NVMe drives connected over PCIe 4.0 x4. This is very standard approach. When it comes to "closely integrated", there are two things:
1. Hardware data compression for increasing bandwidth;
2. Priority queues for moving data (seem to be mainly aimed at getting data latency down for asset streaming to VRAM).

 

[Rahnak]

@londiste The PS5 internal SSD has a proprietary 12 channel custom controller with a bunch of extra features. It is hooked over PCIe 4.0 x4 but it's far from standard. Expandable storage is for regular m.2 NVMe SSDs though. They will need higher read speeds to compensate though (in other words, expensive as heck)

 

[londiste]

The fact that expandable storage is regular M.2 NVMe tells you it can't be that special
Probably special controller firmware plus the hardware compression hardware. Needs little to no change on the actual drive.

 

[Rahnak]

The fact that expandable storage is regular M.2 NVMe tells you it can't be that special
Probably special controller firmware plus the hardware compression hardware. Needs little to no change on the actual drive.

The expandable storage is regular m.2 NVMe because the slot is wired to the custom flash controller as well. The SSD was one of the main points of the PS5 technical talk a while back. You can read all about it in Digital Foundry's deep dive as well. No doubt it would've been simpler for Sony to package their tech into a proprietary external SSD, but allowing for off the shelf parts just earns them good points with players.

 

[londiste]

Understanding the PS5's SSD: A deep dive into next-gen storage tech

The PlayStation 5's new SSD is revolutionary, delivering massive efficiency through speed and enabling true next-gen performance on the console.

www.tweaktown.com

Controller firmware is what seems to be the key here. They also say there will be SSDs on the market that are fast enough that can be put into PS5.
Again, controller firmware plus hardware compression. Pretty standard stuff.

Remember that all the talk and marketing are against PS4's HDD. Compared to that, its leaps and bounds faster. Compared to a fast NVMe drive it's pretty good but not that unusual.

 

[Rahnak]

Understanding the PS5's SSD: A deep dive into next-gen storage tech

The PlayStation 5's new SSD is revolutionary, delivering massive efficiency through speed and enabling true next-gen performance on the console.

www.tweaktown.com

Controller firmware is what seems to be the key here. They also say there will be SSDs on the market that are fast enough that can be put into PS5.
Again, controller firmware plus hardware compression. Pretty standard stuff.

Remember that all the talk and marketing are against PS4's HDD. Compared to that, its leaps and bounds faster. Compared to a fast NVMe drive it's pretty good but not that unusual.

Had to look up the definition of standard to make sure it was what I thought it was. Yeah, still not a standard SSD. If it were they'd just chuck in an off the shelf unit, call it a day and save some money in the process. It has extra spice (besides the hardware decompression). And again, the only reason you can expand the storage with a regular NVMe drive is because the slot is wired to the internal SSD's custom controller. And again, the read speeds have to be even faster than 5.5GB/s to offset the lack of features (like the NVMe spec standard 2 priority states versus the internal SSD's 6).

Don't get me wrong, my point isn't that this is the fastest thing on the block, we'll probably have SSDs reaching 7GB/s reads later this year or early next year, just that this isn't a standard unit.

 

[ARF]

PS5's SSD runs at 5.5 GB/s, while Xbox Series X at 2.4 GB/s

Tim Sweeney Explains Exactly Why the PS5’s SSD and I/O Architecture Is Way More Efficient Than PC’s

Tim Sweeney Explains Exactly Why the PS5's SSD and I/O Architecture Is Way More Efficient Than PC's

Epic founder Tim Sweeney explained exactly why the PlayStation 5's SSD and I/O Architecture is way more efficient than PC's.

wccftech.com

The latter component is particularly relevant because Microsoft already confirmed plans to bring it to Windows PC, too. According to Microsoft, DirectStorage can significantly reduce CPU overhead for I/O operations (such as those happening in the background to load the next parts of the world) from several cores to a small fraction of a single core. Needless to say, this could severely diminish the PC I/O issues mentioned above by Tim Sweeney.

 

[Shatun_Bear]

Based on what we know so far, the drives are standard NVMe drives connected over PCIe 4.0 x4. This is very standard approach. When it comes to "closely integrated", there are two things:
1. Hardware data compression for increasing bandwidth;
2. Priority queues for moving data (seem to be mainly aimed at getting data latency down for asset streaming to VRAM).

No be logical.

The PS5 SSD is far from standard from what I've read. For a start, it has a 12-channel memory controller. Fastest PC NVMe drives have only 4-channels. Secondly, its flash memory is placed physically very close to the processor, allowing for far greater efficiency than is possible from disparate PC components clumsily communicating with each other in your average rig (SSD, memory and CPU/GPU).

Now I'm a PC gamer not a console gamer and always will be, but there doesnt need to be this insecurity when it comes to consoles. They lift the baseline and help move PC gaming forward. A general purpose machine, even if we call it a 'gaming PC', is still general purpose and made up of separate parts. We will never see the type of PS5 efficiency and I/O communication speed between all components on PC as all parts are separate. The console is built for one purpose and all its parts completely integrated.

Brute force approach on PC can alleviate some of these problems.

 

[londiste]

Most NVMe drives are 8 channels. High end is 12 channels (although these models are probably datacenter stuff and prohibitively expensive, Intel's DC45xx for example).
Sony has confirmed some standard SSDs will be supported and rumors say Sony is working with Samsung on this, so Samsung next-gen SSDs will use the same 12-channel controller.
Physically very close has almost no meaning in this context.

PS5 is a PC in terms of hardware. It being special is basically firmware and mostly software.
All the parts, buses and integration are standard affair that you get in a PC.

Edit:
Consoles used to be special - considerably different types of hardware, processors and accelerators. This was the case in early generations where computers were not standard stuff anyway and most notably 5th and 6th gen where most consoles had custom hardware. Think PS/PS2 and contemporaries that were very different from what PCs were doing at the time (and consoles really did have features and capabilities that PCs could not do for a couple years). 7th gen with PS3 and XBox 360 is interesting middle ground where both went for more standard components but in slightly different directions - XB360's Tri-core Xenon vs PS3's Cell and R520-based Xenon (with some R600 parts) vs G70/G71 hybrid RSX. Last gen and the upcoming one are starkly different from how things used to be done. There are some special ASICs here and there but CPU and GPU along with the system architecture is bog standard x86 PC. 8-core Jaguar and GCN GPU in the previous gen and Zen2 + RDNA2 in the upcoming one. It's x86, uses the standard buses and solutions for almost everything.

The only special integration I can think of in last gen and the next one is memory controller configuration. There are pros and cons to shared memory controllers but the decision to use them is not about being special but for both simplicity and lower cost when CPU and GPU are integrated into the same die or package anyway.

 

[Shatun_Bear]

Most NVMe drives are 8 channels. High end is 12 channels (although these models are probably datacenter stuff and prohibitively expensive, Intel's DC45xx for example).
Sony has confirmed some standard SSDs will be supported and rumors say Sony is working with Samsung on this, so Samsung next-gen SSDs will use the same 12-channel controller.
Physically very close has almost no meaning in this context.

PS5 is a PC in terms of hardware. It being special is basically firmware and mostly software.
All the parts, buses and integration are standard affair that you get in a PC.

Edit:
Consoles used to be special - considerably different types of hardware, processors and accelerators. This was the case in early generations where computers were not standard stuff anyway and most notably 5th and 6th gen where most consoles had custom hardware. Think PS/PS2 and contemporaries that were very different from what PCs were doing at the time (and consoles really did have features and capabilities that PCs could not do for a couple years). 7th gen with PS3 and XBox 360 is interesting middle ground where both went for more standard components but in slightly different directions - XB360's Tri-core Xenon vs PS3's Cell and R520-based Xenon (with some R600 parts) vs G70/G71 hybrid RSX. Last gen and the upcoming one are starkly different from how things used to be done. There are some special ASICs here and there but CPU and GPU along with the system architecture is bog standard x86 PC. 8-core Jaguar and GCN GPU in the previous gen and Zen2 + RDNA2 in the upcoming one. It's x86, uses the standard buses and solutions for almost everything.

The only special integration I can think of in last gen and the next one is memory controller configuration. There are pros and cons to shared memory controllers but the decision to use them is not about being special but for both simplicity and lower cost when CPU and GPU are integrated into the same die or package anyway.

I'm sorry but this is pure nonsense. Both consoles are highly custom, especially the PS5 and it's SSD with its integration into the rest of the system, extensive work on I/O to remove all bottlenecks etc. I dont get the insecurity at all, embrace it, our cumbersome and brute force PCs will only copy some of the features in the future but if they don't, its not the end of the world as I use my PC for many other things other than gaming, which there is too much focus on these days.

And most SSDs are not 8-channels. You think most SSDs are NVMe Samsung Evos?

 

[ARF]

Speaking in the latest issue of Official PlayStation Magazine UK, Epic’s Kim Liberi claimed the new consoles would fulfil his longtime goal partly thanks to Unreal Engine 5’s Nanite tech, which is claimed will allow developers to put “movie-quality” assets in their games.
“It has been a lifelong dream of mine that real-time computer graphics, and in particular games, can be as believable and realistic as a movie,” he said.
“Next-gen graphics and processing power will not only make games more immersive, but will also enable entirely new gameplay concepts that can take advantage of fully dynamic environments and lighting, much-improved physics, smarter AI, and richer multiplayer experiences.”


Epic partnered with Sony for the unveiling of UE5, which was shown running “live on PlayStation 5” via the ‘Lumen in the Land of Nanite’ demo in May.
According to Epic, UE5 will allow artists to import film-quality source art comprising hundreds of millions or billions of polygons directly into the engine.
The Nanite technology will then scale the assets in real-time, significantly reducing time spent adjusting them for game performance and with “no loss in quality.”
In the OPM interview, Liberi pointed to Epic’s recent collaboration with LucasFilm’s The Mandalorian, which used Unreal Engine to create real-time visual effects for its sets, as an example of how technologies in the two mediums were converging.

PS5 and Xbox Series X will achieve dream of ‘movie-quality graphics’, says Epic

PS5 and Xbox Series X will achieve dream of ‘movie-quality graphics’, says Epic | VGC

CTO discusses UE5’s Nanite technology…

www.videogameschronicle.com

 

[londiste]

From the comments of that article:

http://imgur.com/kVBxB04

Unreal is one of the most used engines, if not THE most used engine for games. Even more so on consoles. This is marketing, pure and simple.

 

[Vayra86]

PS5 and Xbox Series X will achieve dream of ‘movie-quality graphics’, says Epic

PS5 and Xbox Series X will achieve dream of ‘movie-quality graphics’, says Epic | VGC

CTO discusses UE5’s Nanite technology…

www.videogameschronicle.com

Only movie quality? Man I remember how the N64 was marketed with "photo realistic" graphics. At least GoldenEye did have actual mug shots of movie characters in it

I'm sorry but this is pure nonsense. Both consoles are highly custom, especially the PS5 and it's SSD with its integration into the rest of the system, extensive work on I/O to remove all bottlenecks etc. I dont get the insecurity at all, embrace it, our cumbersome and brute force PCs will only copy some of the features in the future but if they don't, its not the end of the world as I use my PC for many other things other than gaming, which there is too much focus on these days.

And most SSDs are not 8-channels. You think most SSDs are NVMe Samsung Evos?

Highly custom? They are tweaked x86 machines optimized on cost/performance and the GPU is always the limiting factor. Last I checked, AMD GPUs werent exactly performance kings. To believe a cost effective console release is somehow going to make them leap ahead by a full gen on GPU is some pretty serious wishful thinking... and that is only considering Nvidia will not improve anything over a 2080ti in the near future.

Its just business as usual.

 

[ARF]

Only movie quality? Man I remember how the N64 was marketed with "photo realistic" graphics. At least GoldenEye did have actual mug shots of movie characters in it



Highly custom? They are tweaked x86 machines optimized on cost/performance and the GPU is always the limiting factor. Last I checked, AMD GPUs werent exactly performance kings. To believe a cost effective console release is somehow going to make them leap ahead by a full gen on GPU is some pretty serious wishful thinking...

The only difference and quite significant, though, is the SSD implementation that is a magnitude of times superior than anything on PC.

But this is not a reason for me to ever consider a purchase of the PS5.
I am just impressed what they can do in order to stimulate the sales.

We must pray that Microsoft will start optimising its software ecosystem around that kind of SSD performance and no loading times, etc benefits coming from it.

 

[Vayra86]

The only difference and quite significant, though, is the SSD implementation that is a magnitude of times superior than anything on PC.

But this is not a reason for me to ever consider a purchase of the PS5.
I am just impressed what they can do in order to stimulate the sales.

We must pray that Microsoft will start optimising its software ecosystem around that kind of SSD performance and no loading times, etc benefits coming from it.

Agreed and they probably found a way to customize the pipeline such that the data on SSD serves as another level of (V)RAM, albeit slower. The move to more streaming oriented engines is not new but yes I think that is how they enable higher resolutions / textures and higher numbers of assets into scenes. Effectively they already did something along those lines with the PS4/X1, each in their own way. The PS4 just fully relies on GDDR5 for everything, sacrificing performance/snappiness outside of graphics, essentially. Its not a huge hit on GPU grunt, its mostly moving a crapload of data around. Probably fits well with a 30 FPS limitation which is what any high res content will be optimized around, most likely. The higher frametime allows sufficient time to fetch data and tradeoff is minimal, if anything.

Other than that I don't directly see how SSD can enable nicer looking games, the GPU will always be the limiting factor. The PC has other ways to get around that problem, because GPU grunt just keeps scaling up and will surpass next gen consoles within a year, at some similar price point. We've already been looking at 11GB VRAM for some years now for example

 

[droopyRO]

PS5 and Xbox Series X will achieve dream of ‘movie-quality graphics’, says Epic

I am waiting for my "dream" of gameplay and story in AAA games.