Intel 7nm CPUs Delayed by a Year, Alder Lake in 2H-2021, Other Commentary from Intel Management

[londiste]

Office PCs?
4800U is a mobile CPU that has been out for little under 2 months.
Ryzen 4000 series APUs were announced this Tuesday.

4800U price in unknown and AMD is probably discounting them heavily to get as wide adoption as possible.
i5-8500 (or newer and HT-enabled i5-10500) costs officially ~190 moneys and i5-10400 is ~20 moneys less. Old i5-8500 is probably heavily discounted for OEMs or they are clearing stock.
The 8-core Renoir for desktop - 4750G PRO that we can see for sale now - costs 400.

In Cinebench R20 MT, R7 4750G PRO is about 50% faster than i5 10500. Power consumption is probably comparable.

 

[ARF]

Office PCs?

OEMs, brother, I think OEMs most of the time ship office PCs, may be I am wrong, don't know..

 

[londiste]

Laptops (especially light-and-thin laptops that 15W CPUs are put into ) and office PCs are two very very different market segments.

 

[HenrySomeone]

I honestly feel they are fine as long as 5 nm EUV from AMD doesn't come out considerably before their (proper) 10nm; only then would I start to worry a little.

 

[ARF]

Laptops (especially light-and-thin laptops that 15W CPUs are put into ) and office PCs are two very very different market segments.

Why do big organisations and companies pursue lowest possible costs for electricity? How would they achieve their targets if they don't move all of their configurations to U-series CPUs?
Office PCs need neither top extreme performance as seen in 125-watt HEDT CPUs, nor they need so high power draw, especially when they don't even measure performance/watt.

 

[ToxicTaZ]

My question is. Why the likes of HP still ship this 2-year-old midrange desktop CPU in brand new office PCs? Why don't they use lower power state-of-the-art CPUs in their machines ?

That's easy!

Because HP is garbage lol

 

[watzupken]

People overestimate Apple. Company is indeed big but in volume its not unique at all.

Apple don't compete on volume if you have not noticed. They thrive on big profit margins despite lower volume sold as compared to their competitors. And despite the high price of Apple products, they are still able to maintain a very healthy fan base.

 

[Vayra86]

Apple don't compete on volume if you have not noticed. They thrive on big profit margins despite lower volume sold as compared to their competitors. And despite the high price of Apple products, they are still able to maintain a very healthy fan base.

Yes, but in the context of being supplied with chips and components, who cares about fan base?

 

[Chrispy_]

4, 6 and 8 cores are still all valid choices in mainstream. 12 and 16 cores are now viable but still niche. These OEM products you mention are not marketed or meant for enthusiasts or workstation-like uses where many cores help.
You are looking at it from the wrong side. 10900K vs 3900X/3950X is the wrong comparison to look at. Unless game is very thread-limited - and today, 6c/12t is plenty - something like 10400 is going to be as fast or faster than any Ryzen and 10600K is going to glow past them, more so when overclocked.

I'm looking at it from high-end side because that's the only side where the CPU is relevant to gaming. At the budget end the CPU is almost completely irrelevant. The money goes into the GPU at the low end, every time. If you're not doing that you're doing it wrong.

Take an R5 3600 vs the 10400 at the exact same price (ignore the fact that the 3600 is usually $5-10 cheaper and comes with a usable, rather than an unusable cooler). The 3600 is better at everything, including many games where the 3600 with DDR4-2666 will only be beaten by the 10400 using DDR4-3200. Yes, the 10600 is significantly faster at games than the R5 3600 but then you have problems even getting hold of the damn thing because it's out of stock everywhere, and price-gouging is rampant (I've only seen it in stock at $300+). If you were adamant that your gaming CPU had to be a 10600 then you've just thrown away $130 of budget forcing you to downgrade the planned 2060KO to a rubbish little 1650S. Ouch. What's the point of a faster gaming CPU when your GPU sucks?

 

[londiste]

Why do big organisations and companies pursue lowest possible costs for electricity? How would they achieve their targets if they don't move all of their configurations to U-series CPUs?
Office PCs need neither top extreme performance as seen in 125-watt HEDT CPUs, nor they need so high power draw, especially when they don't even measure performance/watt.

You mentioned i5 8500 - that is a 65W CPU. 35W CPUs are available from both AMD and Intel but are not too popular, even in office PCs. Moving to U-series will not happen simply because it would be too costly.
Office PCs are not heavily loaded anyway, so their real consumption is pretty low.

Electricity consumption as a cost factor for office PCs is not a real problem for companies. Most of the energy efficiency drive for office PCs is regulatory if even that.

 

[skates]

Intel lost focus, initiative & energy. Their leadership is to blame. Time will tell if Intel goes into irreversible decline or they right the ship & do what is necessary to refocus, re-energize and gain the initiative.

 

[ARF]

You mentioned i5 8500 - that is a 65W CPU. 35W CPUs are available from both AMD and Intel but are not too popular, even in office PCs. Moving to U-series will not happen simply because it would be too costly.
Office PCs are not heavily loaded anyway, so their real consumption is pretty low.

Electricity consumption as a cost factor for office PCs is not a real problem for companies. Most of the energy efficiency drive for office PCs is regulatory if even that.

This is quite disputable. There are always running applications, services and updates which quite heavily load the office computer.

 

[EarthDog]

This is quite disputable. There are always running applications, services and updates which quite heavily load the office computer.

Yeah, MS Office is a bitch to run, eh? Same with default services. THANK GOD AMD is here with all their cores and threads.

Jokes aside, in any kind of enterprise or office environment updates are rolled out after hours 99% of the time.... not while users are sitting in front of their PC.

That said, it really depends on use. CAD designers, content creators etc, likely run a higher load than most general office workers (accounting, HR, CSRs, etc). But typical office functionality isn't much on a PC. There will always be exceptions.

 

[kapone32]

Intel lost focus, initiative & energy. Their leadership is to blame. Time will tell if Intel goes into irreversible decline or they right the ship & do what is necessary to refocus, re-energize and gain the initiative.

In some ways the market made Intel what it is. Publicly traded companies that are in the profiles of super rich people

Yeah, MS Office is a bitch to run, eh? Same with default services. THANK GOD AMD is here with all their cores and threads.

Jokes aside, in any kind of enterprise or office environment updates are rolled out after hours 99% of the time.... not while users are sitting in front of their PC.

That said, it really depends on use. CAD designers, content creators etc, likey run a higher load than most general office workers (accounting, HR, CSRs, etc). But typical office functionality isn't much on a PC. There will always be exceptions.

There is no sane reason to do any work on a network during business hours. Could you imagine the Telephone company putting the lines on standy (battery power) to change a transmission cable?

 

[ARF]

Yeah, MS Office is a bitch to run, eh? Same with default services. THANK GOD AMD is here with all their cores and threads.

Jokes aside, in any kind of enterprise or office environment updates are rolled out after hours 99% of the time.... not while users are sitting in front of their PC.

That said, it really depends on use. CAD designers, content creators etc, likely run a higher load than most general office workers (accounting, HR, CSRs, etc). But typical office functionality isn't much on a PC. There will always be exceptions.

Don't browsers use a logical/physical core per open tab?

 

[EarthDog]

Don't browsers use a logical/physical core per open tab?

Not that I know of...doesn't look like it on my end...open your browser and see.

I'd be in deep shit as I have, right this second, 38 Chrome tabs open and 'only' 16c/16t (its 32t CPU but I have HT disabled)............my CPU is, for all intents and purposes at idle. Browsers do use a lot of RAM... but CPU use seems negligible (for my tabs currently). With Outlook and Excel open, Paint.Net (with a dozen images), two chrome instances with a total of 30+ tabs and while watching twitch shows ~10% give or take. If I remove twitch, I'm down to 2-4% with everything else up.

 

[mtcn77]

I wonder what is next for intel a leveraged buyout?

 

[EarthDog]

I wonder what is next for intel a leveraged buyout?

Of the company? Are you serious or did I miss some sarcasm tags?

 

[trparky]

Of the company? Are you serious or did I miss some sarcasm tags?

I'm with you on that one. Intel is too big to be bought out. Not even the likes of Amazon and/or Apple have the kind of cash on hand to buy the likes of Intel.

 

[Chrispy_]

Don't browsers use a logical/physical core per open tab?

They use a separate thread per open tab.

Windows10 will happily spawn ~2000 threads on a dual-core atom netbook with 2GB RAM.

 

[EarthDog]

They use a separate thread per open tab.

Windows10 will happily spawn ~2000 threads on a dual-core atom netbook with 2GB RAM.

I've got 2908 currently on my 16c/16t config...

 

[ARF]

Not that I know of...doesn't look like it on my end...open your browser and see.

I'd be in deep shit as I have, right this second, 38 Chrome tabs open and 'only' 16c/16t (its 32t CPU but I have HT disabled)............my CPU is, for all intents and purposes at idle. Browsers do use a lot of RAM... but CPU use seems negligible (for my tabs currently). With Outlook and Excel open, Paint.Net (with a dozen images), two chrome instances with a total of 30+ tabs and while watching twitch shows ~10% give or take. If I remove twitch, I'm down to 2-4% with everything else up.

Wrong. Those percentages are when the tab is idle. When you load the tab, you get your CPU up to 100% load.

 

[EarthDog]

Wrong. Those percentages are when the tab is idle. When you load the tab, you get your CPU up to 100% load.

Wrong? LOLwut?

When working any of these tabs, I've already mentioned my peak CPU use....which is with twitch.tv streaming as the active tab. Unless I don't understand what you are saying by "load the tab"? Please be more clear if I misunderstood?
EDIT: I just tried to bring up a new tab (blank) and then one of my book marks. There was a spike to a bit over 20%... then back down to ~10% when watching twitch. My NV GPU is working harder than the CPU (by %) watching twitch.

EDIT2: Currently I only have 6 tabs and none of them spike the CPU at all when making it the active tab. Again, my CPU use peaks at ~10% with twitch doing its thing as the active tab.

 

[mtcn77]

I'm with you on that one. Intel is too big to be bought out. Not even the likes of Amazon and/or Apple have the kind of cash on hand to buy the likes of Intel.

Of the company? Are you serious or did I miss some sarcasm tags?

Yes, just watched barbarians at the gate. I took a liking to it.

 

[EarthDog]

Yes, just watched barbarians at the gate. I took a liking to it.

lol, nice!! Fair enough!