Despite AMD Momentum, Intel Claws Back Market Share in Both Desktop and Mobile

[Melvis]

 

[HansRapad]

this is a Very Small Audiance, On Limited Region, Using 1 Creator Data , on Very Small Market Called DIY

 

[RandAlThor]

Hardly surprising.

Can't buy Renoir (no stock)
Can't buy Ryzen 5000-series (no stock)
Can't buy Radeon 6000-series (no stock)
Can't buy Radeon 5000-series (no stock)
Can't buy a single AMD laptop with more than 8GB soldered, un-upgradeable RAM (no design wins)

It's truly sad how if I want a decent laptop I have to go Intel. Such cripplingly-bad specs preventing any AMD laptops from being worth buying.
It really shouldn't be that hard to find a 12-month old processor with 16GB dual-channel RAM and a display that isn't a better fit for the sub-$500 entry-level compromise models, but it is. In many cases, it's not even that there's no stock, it's that the OEM (Acer, Asus, HP, Lenovo) simply don't even offer anything that meets those pretty ordinary, exactly-what-anyone-sensible-would-be-looking-for criteria.

The place i work for was looking to buy a new laptop for a coworker. I suggested a ryzen laptop. Went looking for it, but there are no ryzen laptops with a 4k display. Not 1 ryzen laptop has a 4k display. Bought intel ....

 

[Turmania]

This is AMD for you, make a great product but nowhere to be sold. fanboyz will always blame the scalpers and miners but this is cpu not gpu... but they can not think rational. I always say, give Lisa Su the credit, but she is not excused from mistakes either. lovely to stand on a platform and launch it, but where is it?

 

[medi01]

Looking at the latest Steam hardware survey, AMD seems to be growing its CPU usage share among gamers:

View attachment 186853

So, I'm guessing the "can find any AMD CPU's for sale" claims are a tiny bit exaggerated.

Note that this is largely DIY market, which is only about 1/6th of the total.
Lion's hare is on OEMs hands.

And they do shit like this:

Polish source claims Nvidia and Intel worked together to block the marketing of premium AMD Ryzen 4000 laptops with high-end GPUs in 2020

Back in mid-2020, laptop OEMs explained that the inclusion of dGPUs more powerful than the RTX 2060 would not really make sense on Ryzen 4000H systems, as their performance would be limited by the 8x PCIe 3.0 lanes. However, the Ryzen 5000H systems still use only 8x PCIe 3.0 lanes, yet they come...

www.notebookcheck.net

This is AMD for you, make a great product but nowhere to be sold.

Oh, tone down BS please.
AMD is not in fab business for many years and it just happened to roll out new:
1) APUs for major consoles
2) BIG GPUs
3) New CPU cores

all at once.

German site has both in stock, although, not sure what people would say about pricing:

 

[kapone32]

yeah i think some people think intel are back with their old tactic. but seeing the supply constrained that AMD are having this time intel does not even to waste their resource to really bribe OEM. they just need to let things happen. sooner or later it will start going to hit AMD hard.

You mean like securing 7nm orders from TSMC.

Intel was being outsold up to 6 to 1 in the newest consumer market (Germany). You can buy any AMD CPUs from Germany and some of the companies provide free world wide shipping too. What I see for the last quarter was as Xmas loomed and interest in PC hit a fever pitch many pre built PCs that had been sitting in inventory for months were gobbled up by parents of adolescents and some PC lovers. As evidence, (before it became known), when the 3000 series and 6000 series launched one could buy a mid range Gaming PC for the cost of a 3080. The consoles are probably the biggest drag on supply but we are starting to see supply improve. It would seem the 5600X is becoming easier to acquire.

 

[RandallFlagg]

Note that this is largely DIY market, which is only about 1/6th of the total.
Lion's hare is on OEMs hands.

And they do shit like this:

Polish source claims Nvidia and Intel worked together to block the marketing of premium AMD Ryzen 4000 laptops with high-end GPUs in 2020

Back in mid-2020, laptop OEMs explained that the inclusion of dGPUs more powerful than the RTX 2060 would not really make sense on Ryzen 4000H systems, as their performance would be limited by the 8x PCIe 3.0 lanes. However, the Ryzen 5000H systems still use only 8x PCIe 3.0 lanes, yet they come...

www.notebookcheck.net

Oh, tone down BS please.
AMD is not in fab business for many years and it just happened to roll out new:
1) APUs for major consoles
2) BIG GPUs
3) New CPU cores

all at once.

German site has both in stock, although, not sure what people would say about pricing:

View attachment 186916

So 5600X costs about the same as a 10900K? I suppose that is one way to make sure you keep stock on hand.

So I have noticed that here in the states the 5600X and 5800X go in stock and can stay in stock for hours vs minutes prior to the holidays.

I've also noticed even the big retailers here in the states charge a premium, seeing 5600X @ $375 several times. That makes it more expensive than a 10700K.

So the 10700K and the 5600X trade blows on various gaming benchmarks, with the 10700K winning in most productivity scenarios. There's really not a reason to spend more money to go 5600X, or waste time waiting in a queue.

Really the only chips Intel can't currently meet or beat in performance are the 5900X and 5950X, and those are basically absent from retail channels.

You mean like securing 7nm orders from TSMC.

Intel was being outsold up to 6 to 1 in the newest consumer market (Germany). You can buy any AMD CPUs from Germany and some of the companies provide free world wide shipping too. What I see for the last quarter was as Xmas loomed and interest in PC hit a fever pitch many pre built PCs that had been sitting in inventory for months were gobbled up by parents of adolescents and some PC lovers. As evidence, (before it became known), when the 3000 series and 6000 series launched one could buy a mid range Gaming PC for the cost of a 3080. The consoles are probably the biggest drag on supply but we are starting to see supply improve. It would seem the 5600X is becoming easier to acquire.

You are talking about one retailer in Germany selling individual chips to DIY people. You do realize that 99% of chip sales are in an actual functioning computer right?

I mean, if I told you that 95% of the engines sold by Advance Auto Parts were Chevrolet smallblock V8s, would you then conclude that 95% of the automobile engines sold on the planet were GM? Cause that is exactly the kind of logic you are using.

 

[medi01]

So 5600X costs about the same as a 10900K? I suppose that is one way to make sure you keep stock on hand.

Welp, MSRP of $299 sold for... 350 Euros is hardly something unusual.

I am not sure what makes 10900k, a $470 CPU cost "the same" (or where).
Definitely not on the same German site:

So the 10700K and the 5600X trade blows

That could be had for a bit less than 5600x (I'd still go with the latter, but oh well)

with the 10700K winning in most productivity scenarios.

No. 10700k edges about 7% in multi threaded:

And 12% some in single threaded scenarios

AMD Ryzen 5950X, 5900X, 5800X & 5600X im Test: Benchmarks in Anwendungen

AMD Ryzen 5000 im Test: Benchmarks in Anwendungen / Multi-Core-Szenarien / Single-Core-Szenarien

www.computerbase.de

While consuming 1.77 Times more energy at full load.
Hardly something to opt for.

 

[kapone32]

You are talking about one retailer in Germany selling individual chips to DIY people. You do realize that 99% of chip sales are in an actual functioning computer right?

I mean, if I told you that 95% of the engines sold by Advance Auto Parts were Chevrolet smallblock V8s, would you then conclude that 95% of the automobile engines sold on the planet were GM? Cause that is exactly the kind of logic you are using.

The DIY argument does not apply as I already established that earlier besides every PS5 and Xbox1 is an AM4 computer. Do you want me to use Amazon? I used Germany because AMD is so focused on Germany that I got a 1900x for $225 CAD including customs in early 2020 from Grooves Land. In fact Grooves land seems to be a Searsesque store with a huge variety of AMD processors. I can find AMD CPUs being sold for retail that you can only buy from Ebay or through the nose from 3rd party sellers here in North America. Even CPUs like the 3500X were available and the Server chips. If a general retailer has that much choice imagine a focused one and you will get why. There is also the fact that due to the dynamics of the late 20th century Germany is in a position through reconstruction (therefore mass employment) to have a population with more disposable income. The fact remains that AMD is still selling every piece of hardware they have.

 

[RandallFlagg]

Welp, MSRP of $299 sold for... 350 Euros is hardly something unusual.

I am not sure what makes 10900k, a $470 CPU cost "the same" (or where).
Definitely not on the same German site:

View attachment 186922



That could be had for a bit less than 5600x (I'd still go with the latter, but oh well)

View attachment 186923


No. 10700k edges about 7% in multi threaded:

View attachment 186924

And 12% some in single threaded scenarios

View attachment 186925

AMD Ryzen 5950X, 5900X, 5800X & 5600X im Test: Benchmarks in Anwendungen

AMD Ryzen 5000 im Test: Benchmarks in Anwendungen / Multi-Core-Szenarien / Single-Core-Szenarien

www.computerbase.de

While consuming 1.77 Times more energy at full load.
Hardly something to opt for.

We can all cherry pick bechmarks dude. Be a little more honest.

1080P gaming:

CPU overall :

The DIY argument does not apply as I already established that earlier besides every PS5 and Xbox1 is an AM4 computer. Do you want me to use Amazon? I used Germany because AMD is so focused on Germany that I got a 1900x for $225 CAD including customs in early 2020 from Grooves Land. In fact Grooves land seems to be a Searsesque store with a huge variety of AMD processors. I can find AMD CPUs being sold for retail that you can only buy from Ebay or through the nose from 3rd party sellers here in North America. Even CPUs like the 3500X were available and the Server chips. If a general retailer has that much choice imagine a focused one and you will get why. There is also the fact that due to the dynamics of the late 20th century Germany is in a position through reconstruction (therefore mass employment) to have a population with more disposable income. The fact remains that AMD is still selling every piece of hardware they have.

If you are buying chips you are talking about DIY. Most people do not build their own PC, this is fact. 85% of the entire PC market is from just 7 OEMs none of whom sell chips outside of server chips. This is also a fact. The remaining 15% is not all DIY, it's comprised of DIY + smaller OEM/SI's like iBuyPower, CyberPowerPC, MSI etc. You are talking about a low single digit percentage of the market. It is a false comparison.

 

[Arc1t3ct]

Intel has higher volumes, pricing flexibility and long standing partnerships with OEMs.

 

[kapone32]

We can all cherry pick bechmarks dude. Be a little more honest.

1080P gaming:

View attachment 186942
CPU overall :

View attachment 186943



If you are buying chips you are talking about DIY. Most people do not build their own PC, this is fact. 85% of the entire PC market is from just 7 OEMs none of whom sell chips outside of server chips. This is also a fact. The remaining 15% is not all DIY, it's comprised of DIY + smaller OEM/SI's like iBuyPower, CyberPowerPC, MSI etc. You are talking about a low single digit percentage of the market. It is a false comparison.

We can all cherry pick bechmarks dude. Be a little more honest.

1080P gaming:

View attachment 186942
CPU overall :

View attachment 186943



If you are buying chips you are talking about DIY. Most people do not build their own PC, this is fact. 85% of the entire PC market is from just 7 OEMs none of whom sell chips outside of server chips. This is also a fact. The remaining 15% is not all DIY, it's comprised of DIY + smaller OEM/SI's like iBuyPower, CyberPowerPC, MSI etc. You are talking about a low single digit percentage of the market. It is a false comparison.

I understand everything you are saying but the thread is titled "Intel claws back market share". Which means that AMD (through DIY) was making inroads in the total market share in 2020 until the 4th Quarter(Black Friday,Xmas). My argument is that it is due to pre-builts which as I said were 10 to 1 Intel based whether desktop or laptop is why that happened.

 

[RandallFlagg]

I understand everything you are saying but the thread is titled "Intel claws back market share". Which means that AMD (through DIY) was making inroads in the total market share in 2020 until the 4th Quarter(Black Friday,Xmas). My argument is that it is due to pre-builts which as I said were 10 to 1 Intel based whether desktop or laptop is why that happened.

I think it is 100% due to pre-built OEM systems. The 2% or so of the market that is DIY is really almost irrelevant in the current market is all I'm getting at. And I would even agree that AMD has a good 50%+ of the overall DIY market. At the same time, I would say more than 95% of posters on this forum have DIY rigs. So basically, AMD is doing really well in the segment where 95% of people who post here are active, but that doesn't mean squat in the other 98% of the market.

In fact, I'd say the main reason to supply DIY supply chain has more to do with marketing - the DIY crowd and the sites like TPU, AT, Toms etc that cater to 'us' collectively - are very vocal. Just to illustrate, at this moment in the forums, look what the ratio of known users to guests is :

Total: 12,545 (members: 176, guests: 12,369)

I wouldn't even doubt that Rocket Lake for example, will mostly be sold to smaller SI's, retail DIY outlets, and the big OEM specialty rigs like Omen and Alienware. That's good for us no doubt, and would be a lot more than AMD has done with Zen 3, but I recognize it for what it is - halo products for marketing purposes.

 

[medi01]

1080P gaming:

TPU's review was baffling for 5000 series, it used slower RAM and got figures CONSISTENTLY worse than those of other reputable reviewers.
computerbase just one of them.

AMD Ryzen 5950X, 5900X, 5800X & 5600X im Test: Benchmarks in Games (720p, 1080p, 2160p)

AMD Ryzen 5000 im Test: Benchmarks in Games (720p, 1080p, 2160p) / AMD Ryzen vs. Intel Core in 720p

www.computerbase.de

The 2% or so of the market that is DIY is

About 16%.

AMD has a good 50%+ of the overall DIY market.

Judging by figures on mindfactory, about 80%

 

[Prima.Vera]

Yeah. 2 Cores less for the "new" Intel CPU.
Penetrate this.

 

[RJARRRPCGP]

We'll get back to you AMD. Hello Intel.

Reminding me of the FX-60 era! That's how Intel passed AMD!

 

[Cobain]

TPU's review was baffling for 5000 series, it used slower RAM and got figures CONSISTENTLY worse than those of other reputable reviewers.
computerbase just one of them.

View attachment 186961

AMD Ryzen 5950X, 5900X, 5800X & 5600X im Test: Benchmarks in Games (720p, 1080p, 2160p)

AMD Ryzen 5000 im Test: Benchmarks in Games (720p, 1080p, 2160p) / AMD Ryzen vs. Intel Core in 720p

www.computerbase.de

About 16%.


Judging by figures on mindfactory, about 80%

Mindfactory? They dont sell outside of Germany for some time now. I dont think they are a good representation at all.

Try Steam survey, imo way more legit than One country results.

 

[illli]

So I'm curious, if AMD is constrained by the limitations of TSMC, how exactly would they be able to gain more market share? TSMC only has so much they can supply, which is split between many companies vying for their services vs intel, which can dedicate all their fabs to spitting out as much CPU as they can/want. Other than maybe going to Samsung, or something, but would that even help all that much?

 

[RandallFlagg]

So I'm curious, if AMD is constrained by the limitations of TSMC, how exactly would they be able to gain more market share? TSMC only has so much they can supply, which is split between many companies vying for their services vs intel, which can dedicate all their fabs to spitting out as much CPU as they can/want. Other than maybe going to Samsung, or something, but would that even help all that much?

That's the issue. They have to diversify their foundry usage if they want to grow, that means they have to backport to other process nodes.

It gets more complicated. I believe AMDs use of CCX chiplets depends on TSMC substrate technology called Chip on Wafer on Substrate or CoWoS. This allows them to have chiplets on TSMC nodes. There are other technologies that do more or less the same thing on other nodes, but I don't think they will perform as well in AMDs CCX use case. Their other option is make a monolithic die, like Intel and most others do. But that means yield will go down, using small CCXs is really their big path to keeping costs down.

Still, one would think they could for example make a monolithic 4 or 6 core without too much impact to margins / yield.

 

[junglist724]

true but what doesnt make sense is that most prebuild pc's were intel based

AMD can't come close to supplying parts for that many pcs.

 

[Totally]

No. Intel gained in both mobile and desktop market share. However, both companies are apparently shipping more units than ever before - AMD just got tapped out and can't make more. This was really evident in the Intel / AMD earnings reports, where overall sales went up +26% but Intel specifically shipped +33% more units - meaning it increased shipments more than the overall market increased.

I would bet this will be the same scene in Q1, perhaps even worse for AMD as they reportedly had 70-80% of their Q4 TSMC capacity mapped to PS5/Xbox. Their Q4 sales would mostly reflect what they got from TSMC / GloFlo in Q3, so Q1 is going to reflect that Q4 allocation.

Also - at least in Q4 - they likely had plenty of Zen 2 parts left to sell. Those are appear to be getting rarer now, meaning they have even less to sell. I would not expect to see AMD's supply situation let up until Q2 at the earliest.

Edit: I would like to see how the Macbook Air / Pro M1 is doing in market share. These are two of the most popular laptops on the planet, their switch to M1 should be having an impact.

That was sarcasm bro, I was implying that that there was nothing for Intel to take back in the first place.

 

[Caring1]

Intel has higher volumes, pricing flexibility and long standing enforced partnerships with OEMs.

Fixed that for you.
It's a case of buy from us only or else.

 

[Ravenas]

Especially when talking Ryzen 5000 series, Intel also has the price advantage.

Price advantage doesn't really matter when Intel is always in stock, and AMD is not.

 

[RandallFlagg]

Article that has an estimated number for how many Zen 3 shipped in Q4.

Almost 1 Million.

Now lets put that in perspective, which the article completely failed to do.

How many PCs shipped in 2020? 302.4M.

Zen 3 was only a Q4 product. So, what were PC shipments in Q4? 143.7M

Ok, so AMD shipped < 1M Zen 3 in Q4, into a market of 143.7M PCs sold.

This comes out to 0.6%.

To put this in more perspective, Intel had about 80.5% of the market. 80.5% of 143.7M is 115.7M. A quarter is 3 months, or roughly 90 days.

1M CPUs is about how many CPUs Intel shipped in 3/4 of one day in Q4, on average.

 

[kapone32]

I think it is 100% due to pre-built OEM systems. The 2% or so of the market that is DIY is really almost irrelevant in the current market is all I'm getting at. And I would even agree that AMD has a good 50%+ of the overall DIY market. At the same time, I would say more than 95% of posters on this forum have DIY rigs. So basically, AMD is doing really well in the segment where 95% of people who post here are active, but that doesn't mean squat in the other 98% of the market.

In fact, I'd say the main reason to supply DIY supply chain has more to do with marketing - the DIY crowd and the sites like TPU, AT, Toms etc that cater to 'us' collectively - are very vocal. Just to illustrate, at this moment in the forums, look what the ratio of known users to guests is :

Total: 12,545 (members: 176, guests: 12,369)

I wouldn't even doubt that Rocket Lake for example, will mostly be sold to smaller SI's, retail DIY outlets, and the big OEM specialty rigs like Omen and Alienware. That's good for us no doubt, and would be a lot more than AMD has done with Zen 3, but I recognize it for what it is - halo products for marketing purposes.

Totally agreed, thanks for expanding on your point, that's what 10 years of dominance means. There is no doubt that AMD owns mindshare in the CPU space now but Intel owns the supply chain. Another word for marketing is propoganda.