TSMC Could Build Six GigaFabs in Arizona

[Wirko]

which have a sticky filling.

Described in more general terms, "glue".

 

[TheLostSwede]

I know that , they are made in my country (NL)
I got some in the kitchen, only these ones are filled with honey.

Isn't that called a bait and switch?

 

[Wirko]

The upgrading of the Fabs to 3nm this early makes sense if TSMC's 3nm is already looking to be mature enough when it comes time to order and install the machines themselves.

Lithography scanners have most certainly been ordered by now. ASML is drowned in backorders.

 

[mechtech]

Bilingual? I still remember an English speaking woman from Quebec asking Trudeau about services not being available in English in the province and he answered in French...

There’s always people like that everywhere in the world unfortunately.

And there are plenty of Chinese speakers too... Or is that the west coast?
All the major cities. I’m 750km from Toronto and Ottawa and our ABMs have 5 or 6 languages on them!!!!!

 

[v12dock]

They clearly just want to build it next to Intel's new 10/7nm fab in Arizona.

 

[DeathtoGnomes]

I know that , they are made in my country (NL)
I got some in the kitchen, only these ones are filled with honey.

dammit! thats twice now, I'm twice as hungry now.

 

[Caring1]

Montreal QC is basically bilingual. I live in Ontario and even though QC is a French province many people know and speak English for those very reasons.

I'd be embarrassed to admit I lived in a French Province

Bilingual? I still remember an English speaking woman from Quebec asking Trudeau about services not being available in English in the province and he answered in French...

French arrogance at it's finest.
I'd rather live in Canada than a French Province.
English should be the first language.

 

[mechtech]

Latvia > Canada. Tons of water, tons of workers, tons of no eartquakes, tons of no dangerous animals, tons of good investment.

Jokes aside. Personally don't care where they build it, i need supply!

hmmmm I was just curious

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Drag and drop countries around the map to compare their relative size. Is Greenland really as big as all of Africa? You may be surprised at what you find! A great tool for educators.

thetruesize.com

 

[HenrySomeone]

Montreal QC is basically bilingual. I live in Ontario and even though QC is a French province many people know and speak English for those very reasons.

Many vs almost everybody in Arizona; that on top of much higher taxes and it's easy to see why nobody in their right mind would even consider QC for something like this...

 

[ARF]

Why not in Europe or Africa? These continents have a much more dire need for investments because the people there are poor!

 

[Wirko]

Why not in Europe or Africa? These continents have a much more dire need for investments because the people there are poor!

The Netherlands looks like it would be the right place for that. People are so poor there. You know, high taxes and such. Also, ASML is near.

 

[ARF]

The Netherlands looks like it would be the right place for that. People are so poor there. You know, high taxes and such. Also, ASML is near.

I meant to the East - Slovakia, Poland, Romania, Serbia, Bulgaria, etc...

 

[PerfectWave]

why build in Arizona that is hot as the sun??

 

[ARF]

why build in Arizona that is hot as the sun??

Politics, greed and pride more than common sense and willingness to help where help is really needed.
Why should the wealthy get wealthier while the already poor poorer?

Isn't this Trump's decision?

 

[Wirko]

why build in Arizona that is hot as the sun??

Suppliers could be among the reasons. Sumco has a manufacturing plant in Phoenix (and one in Albuquerque, too). No need to explain to anyone here who Sumco is, right?

For anyone interested in semiconductor supply chains: Intel makes this much public once a year.

I meant to the East - Slovakia, Poland, Romania, Serbia, Bulgaria, etc...

Some of those nations don't hate Russia and/or China nearly hard enough. They will not get the tech.

 

[sam_86314]

why build in Arizona that is hot as the sun??

On a more serious note, southern AZ gets into the hundreds (F) in summer and drops down to the sixties and seventies in winter. An interesting tidbit is that outdoor Phoenix Metro stations are actually air-conditioned, despite not being enclosed.

Northcentral AZ (where I am) gets into the eighties and nineties in summer and can get a bit below freezing in the winter. As of writing this, it's currently 64F outside (18C); just about perfect in my opinion.

I wish more major companies would build facilities in my area. It stays pretty mild temperature-wise, especially compared to Phoenix.

 

[Redwoodz]

Arizona has tons of solar power to offset the heat management costs. The other reason it will probably happen is the U.S. Government wants manufacturing here, for security reasons.

 

[RandallFlagg]

I don't think it'll happen that way. One yes, maybe two - this makes total sense on several levels including access to US military industry, political / economic ties with the US strengthening as a firewall vs China, having a secure and stable location to conduct business and retain capability in the event of a military conflict or even natural disaster (Taiwan has 9 volcanos and sits near a subduction zone making it susceptible to earthquakes and volcanic eruptions).

But 5? No.

My guess is they'll have one gigafab with 7nm / 5nm nodes, maybe some 3nm capacity, and the rest of their future processes will be done via upgrades to existing nodes in Taiwan. I think they will keep the bulk of their production capacity in Taiwan, with AZ as a hedge vs the unforeseen.

 

[mechtech]

Many vs almost everybody in Arizona; that on top of much higher taxes and it's easy to see why nobody in their right mind would even consider QC for something like this...

Taxes, no clue, do you have that info?
Hydro for industry in QC, probably 5c/kw.hr
Wages 30% less than US due to exchange rate.

A feasibility study would have to be done to determine actual costs, do you have one?

Before Trump, nobody in their "right mind" from TSMC would consider building a fab in the US.

I'm not saying that it would either, as I don't have any concrete numbers, but I wouldn't discount it as a possibility if that option was explored.

 

[R-T-B]

Before Trump, nobody in their "right mind" from TSMC would consider building a fab in the US.

Yeah, it took Trump leaving office for it to be considered.

 

[RandallFlagg]

Yeah, it took Trump leaving office for it to be considered.

You got that backwards - this is from May 2020 :

TSMC Plans $12 Billion U.S. Chip Plant in Victory for Trump

Taiwan Semiconductor Manufacturing Co. plans to spend $12 billion building a chip plant in Arizona, a decision designed to allay U.S. national security concerns and shift more high-tech manufacturing to America.

www.bloomberg.com

 

[R-T-B]

You got that backwards - this is from May 2020 :

TSMC Plans $12 Billion U.S. Chip Plant in Victory for Trump

Taiwan Semiconductor Manufacturing Co. plans to spend $12 billion building a chip plant in Arizona, a decision designed to allay U.S. national security concerns and shift more high-tech manufacturing to America.

www.bloomberg.com

I was being sarcastic and not serious. I doubt Trump is a factor at all frankly. He's a president, not a governor (and frankly, a bad negotiotator).

Governors and geography have more influence in these matters. They'll say it's to "ease security fears" but in reality tax breaks were made and Apple is next door, etc.

Plus, there have been and will continue to be fabs in the US, both before and after Trump. He is a nonfactor in that regard.

 

[bogmali]

Gentlemen, gentlemen, gentlemen. Please leave your politically charged comments at the door-we don't need them in here. Thread cleansed

 

[Space Lynx]

@TheLostSwede

Here’s why TSMC and Intel keep building foundries in the Arizona desert

Fresh water supply isn't the only consideration for chip fabrication.

arstechnica.com

interesting read there. apparently they choose this site because no hurricanes/wildfires/earthquakes/overall stable... (at least until the wind changes direction in California wildfires someday... can't exactly predict that imo) I feel like there were better locations to pick than Arizona still, but eh its their money. i think they will find out within 5 years the california wildfires will get so bad (and climate change will cause radical change in wind patterns) and they will get screwed, cause these plants are not being built with protections for that like the plants in Oregon were. but again, as long as its their money and not mine, more power to them lol

also the faultzones for earthquakes in california are still close enough to arizona to cause trouble for those factories if they ever get some big ones. so eh, i really disagree with their logic in full on this one.

 

[Space Lynx]

I still say TSMC and Intel building factories in the American southwest is a huge huge huge mistake. The water needed for these fabs, and the droughts being record level for that region of the world... its just a disaster waiting to happen.

Even The Great Salt Lake is at it's all time historical low of water level... the drought stretches far and vast... and with the huge huge population in the entire region of the SouthWest.... its a disaster waiting to happen.

@TheLostSwede I know we discussed this in the past, and I know its about skilled workers, etc... regardless... doesn't change it is a disaster waiting to happen.