• Welcome to TechPowerUp Forums, Guest! Please check out our forum guidelines for info related to our community.

EU Commission Pushing Forward with Unified Electronics Charger Standard and Unbundling of Chargers

TheLostSwede

News Editor
Joined
Nov 11, 2004
Messages
15,996 (2.26/day)
Location
Sweden
System Name Overlord Mk MLI
Processor AMD Ryzen 7 7800X3D
Motherboard Gigabyte X670E Aorus Master
Cooling Noctua NH-D15 SE with offsets
Memory 32GB Team T-Create Expert DDR5 6000 MHz @ CL30-34-34-68
Video Card(s) Gainward GeForce RTX 4080 Phantom GS
Storage 1TB Solidigm P44 Pro, 2 TB Corsair MP600 Pro, 2TB Kingston KC3000
Display(s) Acer XV272K LVbmiipruzx 4K@160Hz
Case Fractal Design Torrent Compact
Audio Device(s) Corsair Virtuoso SE
Power Supply be quiet! Pure Power 12 M 850 W
Mouse Logitech G502 Lightspeed
Keyboard Corsair K70 Max
Software Windows 10 Pro
Benchmark Scores https://valid.x86.fr/5za05v
What can only be called a long running drama, the EU has once again put its foot down when it comes to chargers for various consumer electronics devices, although it's mostly about smartphones and regular old mobile phones these days. The whole thing took off some time in 2009, although back then, it was a voluntary effort and according to today's press release by the EU Commission, we're down from 30 to three "competing" standards (micro USB, lightning and USB-C), but apparently that is still not good enough.

As such, the EU Commission has now decided that USB-C is the answer to their prayers and it'll now be an enforced standard for a wide range of devices if they're to be allowed to be sold in the EU. We doubt this will go down well with many device manufacturers, Apple being the obvious one here, even though the company has been slowly transitioning to USB-C on its tablets, none of its phones are using USB-C today. The following device categories are affected: smartphones, tablets, cameras, headphones, portable speakers and handheld video game consoles.




It's unclear as to why the device port has to be USB-C, although a move to USB-C cables for everything does make things simpler, but as long as the charger itself uses USB-C, it's hard to understand why the device end must use USB-C. There's nothing inherently wrong with USB-C, but the USB-C standard is a bit of a mess, even for charging and the EU Commission has a very "loose" proposal here where they're pushing for the USB Power Delivery standard to be the only charging standard allowed over USB-C.

Even USB PD isn't a uniform standard and there are at least four major revisions with multiple minor versions. If we assume the EU Commission goes for USB PD 3.1, then we're looking at a pretty future proof standard that can deliver up to 240 W at 48 V, but this would require different cables than what we're using today. However, if USB PD 3.0 is chosen, then anything that needs more than 100 W at 20 V isn't going to work. Admittedly no smartphone in the world is going to need to be charged at 240 W, but the issue with setting standards like this, is that they tend to filter down, or more likely filter out in this case, to other markets and devices, which means that setting the bar too low, isn't good.

It makes even more sense to go for the most advanced standard when the EU Commission also wants to unbundle the chargers, as it means that your USB PD charger can be used to power many other devices that might have different power requirements from your smartphone or tablet. This appears to be one of the goals here, judging by the amount of different devices the EU Commission already set its sight on, but they might even have limited themselves a bit here, since most laptops can and should be charged over USB-C as well. In fact, Apple is pretty much the pioneer here, which also makes their obsession with keeping the lightning connector on their phones a bit counterintuitive.

Where we're not following the EU Commission's logic is where they claim that as many as 38 percent of consumers are said to have experienced problems with their charges due to incompatibility problems. If anything this seems to suggest that most consumers haven't paid attention to what kind of device they own. On the other hand it also seems crazy that consumers in the EU have spent €2.4 billion per year on buying chargers for their electronics, since they apparently don't always come with chargers. Again, this suggests that consumers aren't paying attention to what they're buying and maybe clearer labelling would solve these problems.

Furthermore, the EU Commission claims that some 11,000 tonnes of e-waste is produced annually from chargers and power adapters that are being thrown away, since they're not compatible with newer devices. This problem could be solved to a degree by moving to USB-C, but as mentioned above, the USB PD standard has also evolved over time, so if you have a USB PD 1.0 charger, it might not be compatible with your new USB PD 3.0 device, as at some point the Voltages changed. One thing that is certain is that there's no such thing as future proof electronics, as it's impossible to predict future requirements, but as technology develops and improves, we sometimes move to entirely different standards that are vastly superior to what came before.

In as much as a common charging standard sounds great, we're not going to see universal chargers, regardless of what the EU Commission is hoping for. This comes down to one simple thing, cost. You can get a 30 W USB PD charger for as little as €10 (sticking with the EU here), which is going to be more than good enough for charging most of the devices in the EU Commission's list, but it's unlikely it'll be powerful enough to charge your laptop or even more demanding smartphones and tablets. A "cheap" 100 W USB PD charger on the other hand will set you back at least €40, although they can often charge multiple devices at once and wouldn't have a problem powering a laptop.

The only thing that is certain is that consumers won't be getting that €5 or €10 the currently bundled charger is worth back from the device makers, since we've already seen some companies that have removed the charger from the box, but seemingly didn't lower the price of their devices with an equivalent amount. This doesn't even take into consideration the reduced weight and volume per unit, which would reduce shipping costs for the device manufacturer.

At the end of the day, this is a tricky subject and although the EU does have some very valid points, it would seem that simply requiring that all chargers use a USB-C port and adhere to the USB PD standard would've been enough, it looks like we're going to see a lot more devices use USB-C ports for charging. This isn't a bad thing as such, but it does feel a bit forced, even though there are some underlying reasons behind it. It's not a done deal yet and things may still change before it becomes a legal requirement.

Photo by By Ilya Plekhanov - Own work, CC BY-SA 4.0, https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?curid=46517325

View at TechPowerUp Main Site
 
Joined
Feb 3, 2017
Messages
3,475 (1.33/day)
Processor R5 5600X
Motherboard ASUS ROG STRIX B550-I GAMING
Cooling Alpenföhn Black Ridge
Memory 2*16GB DDR4-2666 VLP @3800
Video Card(s) EVGA Geforce RTX 3080 XC3
Storage 1TB Samsung 970 Pro, 2TB Intel 660p
Display(s) ASUS PG279Q, Eizo EV2736W
Case Dan Cases A4-SFX
Power Supply Corsair SF600
Mouse Corsair Ironclaw Wireless RGB
Keyboard Corsair K60
VR HMD HTC Vive
It's unclear as to why the device port has to be USB-C, although a move to USB-C cables for everything does make things simpler, but as long as the charger itself uses USB-C, it's hard to understand why the device end must use USB-C.
When a standard is being made, why allow nonstandard things?
 
Joined
Mar 7, 2011
Messages
3,882 (0.81/day)
Unfortunately USB-C is a minefield for consumers to select proper cables from. Too many connectivity and power standards with far too many subpar cables available on market.
 

TheLostSwede

News Editor
Joined
Nov 11, 2004
Messages
15,996 (2.26/day)
Location
Sweden
System Name Overlord Mk MLI
Processor AMD Ryzen 7 7800X3D
Motherboard Gigabyte X670E Aorus Master
Cooling Noctua NH-D15 SE with offsets
Memory 32GB Team T-Create Expert DDR5 6000 MHz @ CL30-34-34-68
Video Card(s) Gainward GeForce RTX 4080 Phantom GS
Storage 1TB Solidigm P44 Pro, 2 TB Corsair MP600 Pro, 2TB Kingston KC3000
Display(s) Acer XV272K LVbmiipruzx 4K@160Hz
Case Fractal Design Torrent Compact
Audio Device(s) Corsair Virtuoso SE
Power Supply be quiet! Pure Power 12 M 850 W
Mouse Logitech G502 Lightspeed
Keyboard Corsair K70 Max
Software Windows 10 Pro
Benchmark Scores https://valid.x86.fr/5za05v
When a standard is being made, why allow nonstandard things?
Well, because 1. Apple already have their lighting port, which came out before USB-C, but you can get a simple USB-C to lightning cable, so you can still use a USB-C charger with your Apple phone. 2. there are a lot of older devices that don't use USB-C, but where you once again can use a simple mechanical adapter to make them work with a USB-C charger 3. because most laptops don't use USB-C, but you once again can use simple mechanical adapters to make them work with a USB-C charger.
My point was simply that the device end connector is going to be a much harder to win battle than having a common interface on the charger end.

If you want to talk non-standards, talk to the notebook makers, almost every single one of them, have a custom charging connector that almost seem to be made out of spite to make sure you can't use a different charger and sometimes they even use odd Voltages that no other company uses, so you have to to buy a replacement charger from them if it fails.
Personally I have an older Thinkpad X250 with one of those weird square charging plugs from Lenovo that isn't compatible with anything else than their Thinkpad laptops.
This should if anything, be the EU Commission's next battleground.

Unfortunately USB-C is a minefield for consumers to select proper cables from. Too many connectivity and power standards with far too many subpar cables available on market.
Luckily that tends to be more of a data than charging issue, until you go above 30W. But yes, you're correct, there are a lot of crap cables out there, but the same applied with micro USB cables, of which I have had many more die on me.
 
Joined
May 21, 2018
Messages
66 (0.03/day)
This article was accompanied with a lot of writer opinion about why enforcing a standard port is bad. It's like saying we shouldn't have moved from two-prong power outlets to three-prong that includes ground because it would be too confusing to the consumer or anti-construction business.

Standards of course will need to be set for the chargers themselves and I'm sure it would be a simple task to update the standard as things progress in the future. It would be better for all humanity in the long run if we can all use the same USB-C outlets regardless of country to charge our devices.

If anyone is to blame for this enforcement by the EU it's Apple for not wanting to let go of their proprietary cash cow lightning port, and the sheeple that buy said devices.

*Edit - I also forgot to mention that the devices having USB-C port is also a plus to prevent manufactuing wasteful "conversion cables" as Apple currently does and, as others mentioned, laptop manufacturers.
 

TheLostSwede

News Editor
Joined
Nov 11, 2004
Messages
15,996 (2.26/day)
Location
Sweden
System Name Overlord Mk MLI
Processor AMD Ryzen 7 7800X3D
Motherboard Gigabyte X670E Aorus Master
Cooling Noctua NH-D15 SE with offsets
Memory 32GB Team T-Create Expert DDR5 6000 MHz @ CL30-34-34-68
Video Card(s) Gainward GeForce RTX 4080 Phantom GS
Storage 1TB Solidigm P44 Pro, 2 TB Corsair MP600 Pro, 2TB Kingston KC3000
Display(s) Acer XV272K LVbmiipruzx 4K@160Hz
Case Fractal Design Torrent Compact
Audio Device(s) Corsair Virtuoso SE
Power Supply be quiet! Pure Power 12 M 850 W
Mouse Logitech G502 Lightspeed
Keyboard Corsair K70 Max
Software Windows 10 Pro
Benchmark Scores https://valid.x86.fr/5za05v
This article was accompanied with a lot of writer opinion about why enforcing a standard port is bad. It's like saying we shouldn't have moved from two-prong power outlets to three-prong that includes ground because it would be too confusing to the consumer or anti-construction business.

Standards of course will need to be set for the chargers themselves and I'm sure it would be a simple task to update the standard as things progress in the future. It would be better for all humanity in the long run if we can all use the same USB-C outlets regardless of country to charge our devices.

If anyone is to blame for this enforcement by the EU it's Apple for not wanting to let go of their proprietary cash cow lightning port, and the sheeple that buy said devices.

*Edit - I also forgot to mention that the devices having USB-C port is also a plus to prevent manufactuing wasteful "conversion cables" as Apple currently does and, as others mentioned, laptop manufacturers.
A lot? Yes, there were some opinion, but I'm by no means against USB-C as such, but the current proposal seems to be a bit too open and it's unclear on which USB PD specification the EU will base its new laws and regulations on. If this is going to happen, it's important to be clear what it coming, instead of simply using partial terminology for something that is available in several very different revisions that in some cases aren't even forward compatible.

If you knew me at all, you'd know I'm very much for standards, but USB-C is still a total, utter mess that is just getting more and more things tacked on to it.
Let's focusing on charging. If you want to charge a device that needs more than 30 W, you need to use a different type of cable, as regular USB-C cables can't handle the current/Voltage combination at higher Wattages. How many consumers do you think are aware of this? This is also why Apple supplies a special charging cable with it's notebooks, that only supports USB 2.0 data speeds.

USB Power Delivery is already an established standard, but as I mentioned, it has four major and many minor revisions and nowhere does the EU Commission point out which one they're planning to implement.

Outside of Apple, many, many, many devices still use micro USB for power, lest not a lot of budget smartphones and "dumb" phones, as it's a much cheaper connector and cable.

I was the one mentioning the laptops ;)

Then there's this.


 
Joined
Apr 8, 2010
Messages
991 (0.19/day)
Processor Intel Core i5 8400
Motherboard Gigabyte Z370N-Wifi
Cooling Silverstone AR05
Memory Micron Crucial 16GB DDR4-2400
Video Card(s) Gigabyte GTX1080 G1 Gaming 8G
Storage Micron Crucial MX300 275GB
Display(s) Dell U2415
Case Silverstone RVZ02B
Power Supply Silverstone SSR-SX550
Keyboard Ducky One Red Switch
Software Windows 10 Pro 1909
Yeah and a billion different fast charging protocols. At least with type-c they still charge, just slower. It's a start
 

TheLostSwede

News Editor
Joined
Nov 11, 2004
Messages
15,996 (2.26/day)
Location
Sweden
System Name Overlord Mk MLI
Processor AMD Ryzen 7 7800X3D
Motherboard Gigabyte X670E Aorus Master
Cooling Noctua NH-D15 SE with offsets
Memory 32GB Team T-Create Expert DDR5 6000 MHz @ CL30-34-34-68
Video Card(s) Gainward GeForce RTX 4080 Phantom GS
Storage 1TB Solidigm P44 Pro, 2 TB Corsair MP600 Pro, 2TB Kingston KC3000
Display(s) Acer XV272K LVbmiipruzx 4K@160Hz
Case Fractal Design Torrent Compact
Audio Device(s) Corsair Virtuoso SE
Power Supply be quiet! Pure Power 12 M 850 W
Mouse Logitech G502 Lightspeed
Keyboard Corsair K70 Max
Software Windows 10 Pro
Benchmark Scores https://valid.x86.fr/5za05v
Yeah and a billion different fast charging protocols. At least with type-c they still charge, just slower. It's a start
Yeah, USB PD is obviously meant to be a universal standard here, but it might not always be the case, especially with regards to the more exotic charging standards out there.
It's actually possible that some devices will revert back to some really basic charging standard, either 5V 500mA or 900-1,000mA if it doesn't recognise the chargers "mode".
 
Joined
Jan 10, 2011
Messages
1,301 (0.27/day)
Location
[Formerly] Khartoum, Sudan.
System Name 192.168.1.1~192.168.1.100
Processor AMD Ryzen5 5600G.
Motherboard Gigabyte B550m DS3H.
Cooling AMD Wraith Stealth.
Memory 16GB Crucial DDR4.
Video Card(s) Gigabyte GTX 1080 OC (Underclocked, underpowered).
Storage Samsung 980 NVME 500GB && Assortment of SSDs.
Display(s) LG 24MK430 primary && Samsung S24D590 secondary
Case Corsair Graphite 780T.
Audio Device(s) On-Board.
Power Supply SeaSonic CORE GM-650.
Mouse Coolermaster MM530.
Keyboard Kingston HyperX Alloy FPS.
VR HMD A pair of OP spectacles.
Software Ubuntu 22.04 LTS.
Benchmark Scores Me no know English. What bench mean? Bench like one sit on?
USB Power Delivery is already an established standard, but as I mentioned, it has four major and many minor revisions and nowhere does the EU Commission point out which one they're planning to implement.
Why is this a problem? Even if it had a thousand revisions, once one is picked out, it will become the de jure USB-PD standard for everything sold moving forward. One could even say this would be an effective way to clean up USB-IF's mess.

Adopting standards isn't meant to to affect things that were, rather things to be. Existing, non-USB-C phones will still have the option of getting chargers/converters for their non-standard devices, as long as they hold any significant market share.
 
Joined
Jun 14, 2010
Messages
622 (0.12/day)
Location
City 217
Processor AMD Phenom II X4 925
Motherboard Asus M4A78LT-M
Cooling Ice Hammer IH-4***
Memory 2x4GB DDR3 Corsair
Video Card(s) Asus HD7870 2GB
Storage 500GB SATAII Samsung | 500GB SATAII Seagate
Display(s) 23" LG 23EA63V-P
Case Thermaltake V3 Black Edition
Audio Device(s) VIA VT1708S
Power Supply Corsair TX650W
Software Windows 10 x64

TheLostSwede

News Editor
Joined
Nov 11, 2004
Messages
15,996 (2.26/day)
Location
Sweden
System Name Overlord Mk MLI
Processor AMD Ryzen 7 7800X3D
Motherboard Gigabyte X670E Aorus Master
Cooling Noctua NH-D15 SE with offsets
Memory 32GB Team T-Create Expert DDR5 6000 MHz @ CL30-34-34-68
Video Card(s) Gainward GeForce RTX 4080 Phantom GS
Storage 1TB Solidigm P44 Pro, 2 TB Corsair MP600 Pro, 2TB Kingston KC3000
Display(s) Acer XV272K LVbmiipruzx 4K@160Hz
Case Fractal Design Torrent Compact
Audio Device(s) Corsair Virtuoso SE
Power Supply be quiet! Pure Power 12 M 850 W
Mouse Logitech G502 Lightspeed
Keyboard Corsair K70 Max
Software Windows 10 Pro
Benchmark Scores https://valid.x86.fr/5za05v
Why is this a problem? Even if it had a thousand revisions, once one is picked out, it will become the de jure USB-PD standard for everything sold moving forward. One could even say this would be an effective way to clean up USB-IF's mess.

Adopting standards isn't meant to to affect things that were, rather things to be. Existing, non-USB-C phones will still have the option of getting chargers/converters for their non-standard devices, as long as they hold any significant market share.
It's a problem because it's an evolving standards and it'll most likely continue to evolve for the foreseeable future.
One problem as an example, is that version 1.0 (revision 1.0 through 1.3) had a 12V implementation that was removed in version 2.0, which added a 9 and 15V implementation instead.
Now your 12V device can no longer use USB PD.

So far the 9 and 15V implementations have stuck around, in addition to the original 5 and 20V, but version 3.1 added 28, 36 and 48V. So far I'm not aware of any charger that supports USB PD 3.1.
If the EU bets on USB PD 3.0, more demanding devices like high-end laptops might not end up being part of the "universal charging revolution" just because a government agency bet on something that was already old by the time they settled on a standard.
If they bet on the older USB PD 2.0 version, then device that use Qualcomms Quick Charge standard won't be able to benefit from fast charging, but the standard is compatible with USB PD 3.0.

Since it's not clear which USB PD standard the EU is going for, it's impossible to know what will be working well and what won't be. If you can't see the problem, well, then I can't help.

The EU didn't create USB-C. It is also the de facto standard already.
The issue isn't the physical connector, but rather the USB PD standard. See above.
 
Joined
Jan 10, 2011
Messages
1,301 (0.27/day)
Location
[Formerly] Khartoum, Sudan.
System Name 192.168.1.1~192.168.1.100
Processor AMD Ryzen5 5600G.
Motherboard Gigabyte B550m DS3H.
Cooling AMD Wraith Stealth.
Memory 16GB Crucial DDR4.
Video Card(s) Gigabyte GTX 1080 OC (Underclocked, underpowered).
Storage Samsung 980 NVME 500GB && Assortment of SSDs.
Display(s) LG 24MK430 primary && Samsung S24D590 secondary
Case Corsair Graphite 780T.
Audio Device(s) On-Board.
Power Supply SeaSonic CORE GM-650.
Mouse Coolermaster MM530.
Keyboard Kingston HyperX Alloy FPS.
VR HMD A pair of OP spectacles.
Software Ubuntu 22.04 LTS.
Benchmark Scores Me no know English. What bench mean? Bench like one sit on?
And this "evolution" would be meaningless if not sanctioned by the law. Broad compatibility is a central pillar for this decision, an update to the standard that breaks said compatibility obviously would go against it. Breaking backwards compatibility a la removal of 12v support is one thing such a decision should prevent, instead of leaving things to the whims of USB-IF engineers.

And again, adopting a standard isn't meant to change the past. For your example, adopting 1.0 will not magically make all existing 2.0 phones unusable. There are tonnes of chargers and cables out there for their owners to buy and use and they will remain so even after the regulation comes into effect (for a while, at least). The only thing that would change is that consumers won't -easily- find are non-v1.0 phones on sale.
 
Joined
May 17, 2021
Messages
3,005 (2.87/day)
Processor Ryzen 5 5700x
Motherboard B550 Elite
Cooling Thermalright Perless Assassin 120 SE
Memory 32GB Fury Beast DDR4 3200Mhz
Video Card(s) Gigabyte 3060 ti gaming oc pro
Storage Samsung 970 Evo 1TB, WD SN850x 1TB, plus some random HDDs
Display(s) LG 27gp850 1440p 165Hz 27''
Case Lian Li Lancool II performance
Power Supply MSI 750w
Mouse G502
i'm all for it, don't care about the details as long as it works as a standard. Enough e-waste
 

TheLostSwede

News Editor
Joined
Nov 11, 2004
Messages
15,996 (2.26/day)
Location
Sweden
System Name Overlord Mk MLI
Processor AMD Ryzen 7 7800X3D
Motherboard Gigabyte X670E Aorus Master
Cooling Noctua NH-D15 SE with offsets
Memory 32GB Team T-Create Expert DDR5 6000 MHz @ CL30-34-34-68
Video Card(s) Gainward GeForce RTX 4080 Phantom GS
Storage 1TB Solidigm P44 Pro, 2 TB Corsair MP600 Pro, 2TB Kingston KC3000
Display(s) Acer XV272K LVbmiipruzx 4K@160Hz
Case Fractal Design Torrent Compact
Audio Device(s) Corsair Virtuoso SE
Power Supply be quiet! Pure Power 12 M 850 W
Mouse Logitech G502 Lightspeed
Keyboard Corsair K70 Max
Software Windows 10 Pro
Benchmark Scores https://valid.x86.fr/5za05v
And this "evolution" would be meaningless if not sanctioned by the law. Broad compatibility is a central pillar for this decision, an update to the standard that breaks said compatibility obviously would go against it. Breaking backwards compatibility a la removal of 12v support is one thing such a decision should prevent, instead of leaving things to the whims of USB-IF engineers.

And again, adopting a standard isn't meant to change the past. For your example, adopting 1.0 will not magically make all existing 2.0 phones unusable. There are tonnes of chargers and cables out there for their owners to buy and use and they will remain so even after the regulation comes into effect (for a while, at least). The only thing that would change is that consumers won't -easily- find are non-v1.0 phones on sale.
Let's hope the bureaucrats in charge of this know enough about tech to make a sensible choice, as this is something that they can't easily fix without landing themselves in a mess.
There definitely needs to be some outside oversight into how the USB PD spec will develop, since right now, it's a comparatively small group of people that seems to be in charge of it. If it's set to become a truly "universal" charging standard, then Microsoft, Apple, Intel, HP, Renesas, ST and TI can't be the major players driving the standard. Admittedly there are some 1,100+ other members in the USB-IF, but the EU Commission isn't one of them for example. Most are actually smaller companies out of the PRC that makes cables and accessories, simply because they have to, to be able the use the USB logo on their products.
 
Joined
Mar 20, 2019
Messages
556 (0.30/day)
Processor 9600k
Motherboard MSI Z390I Gaming EDGE AC
Cooling Scythe Mugen 5
Memory 32GB of G.Skill Ripjaws V 3600MHz CL16
Video Card(s) MSI 3080 Ventus OC
Storage 2x Intel 660p 1TB
Display(s) Acer CG437KP
Case Streacom BC1 mini
Audio Device(s) Topping MX3
Power Supply Corsair RM750
Mouse R.A.T. DWS
Keyboard HAVIT KB487L / AKKO 3098 / Logitech G19
VR HMD HTC Vive
Benchmark Scores What's a "benchmark"?
This is an opinion piece in no small part based on the very misled premise that consumers know or care to know about standards. No, "clearer labeling" will not solve the problem of consumers not knowing which charger or cable they need. You know what "USB-C" means to the average consumer? Roughly the same as "microUSB", which is absolutely nothing, just random letters on a box. You people live in your tech bubble and assume that people know certain things, but they don't, they just want to charge their thing and if the cable they used with their old phone doesn't fit their new one, they just get frustrated and buy a new charger when they could have just used a new cable.
 

TheLostSwede

News Editor
Joined
Nov 11, 2004
Messages
15,996 (2.26/day)
Location
Sweden
System Name Overlord Mk MLI
Processor AMD Ryzen 7 7800X3D
Motherboard Gigabyte X670E Aorus Master
Cooling Noctua NH-D15 SE with offsets
Memory 32GB Team T-Create Expert DDR5 6000 MHz @ CL30-34-34-68
Video Card(s) Gainward GeForce RTX 4080 Phantom GS
Storage 1TB Solidigm P44 Pro, 2 TB Corsair MP600 Pro, 2TB Kingston KC3000
Display(s) Acer XV272K LVbmiipruzx 4K@160Hz
Case Fractal Design Torrent Compact
Audio Device(s) Corsair Virtuoso SE
Power Supply be quiet! Pure Power 12 M 850 W
Mouse Logitech G502 Lightspeed
Keyboard Corsair K70 Max
Software Windows 10 Pro
Benchmark Scores https://valid.x86.fr/5za05v
This is an opinion piece in no small part based on the very misled premise that consumers know or care to know about standards. No, "clearer labeling" will not solve the problem of consumers not knowing which charger or cable they need. You know what "USB-C" means to the average consumer? Roughly the same as "microUSB", which is absolutely nothing, just random letters on a box. You people live in your tech bubble and assume that people know certain things, but they don't, they just want to charge their thing and if the cable they used with their old phone doesn't fit their new one, they just get frustrated and buy a new charger when they could have just used a new cable.
And you think what the EU Commission has decided is likely to improve things?
I presume you didn't ready any of my comments above. USB PD is another swamp to navigate, if you think people have problems figuring out which end of a USB cable is for what.
I found this and I'm sure there are some missing, especially with regards to USB PD, but it contains most non USB-IF charging standards. It has nothing to do with "living in a tech bubble" it's a reality created by competition in a market that no-one really asked for competition in. It's a total mess, but when bureaucrats steps in and says "this is what we're going to use" and then don't specify which revision and subversion they had in mind of what is already a complete mess of barely compatible standards that use the same connector, it's not going to help the consumer.
Besides, USB PD is an optional part of the USB spec and a device with a USB-C port doesn't have to deliver anything more than 5V and 500mA according to the USB spec. Try charging a modern smartphone on that.


 
Joined
Aug 4, 2020
Messages
1,567 (1.18/day)
Location
::1
This is an opinion piece in no small part based on the very misled premise that consumers know or care to know about standards. No, "clearer labeling" will not solve the problem of consumers not knowing which charger or cable they need. You know what "USB-C" means to the average consumer? Roughly the same as "microUSB", which is absolutely nothing, just random letters on a box. You people live in your tech bubble and assume that people know certain things, but they don't, they just want to charge their thing and if the cable they used with their old phone doesn't fit their new one, they just get frustrated and buy a new charger when they could have just used a new cable.
That doesn't really make sense. USB-A and USB-C are now so wildly ubiquitous that people with an IQ above freezing temperature will be able to recognise and distinguish them.
Your suggestion's as asinine as, oh shit my new laptop charger uses C6 instead of C14, let's rip out the dry wall and put a new wall socket in to connect it!

(Admittedly buying a new charger would probably actually be smarter, see the above for the 15,363 different revisions of USB-PD, but that is another topic. The point is, your device will still charge. Just at a slower speed. And most people probably would care about just that.)
 

TheLostSwede

News Editor
Joined
Nov 11, 2004
Messages
15,996 (2.26/day)
Location
Sweden
System Name Overlord Mk MLI
Processor AMD Ryzen 7 7800X3D
Motherboard Gigabyte X670E Aorus Master
Cooling Noctua NH-D15 SE with offsets
Memory 32GB Team T-Create Expert DDR5 6000 MHz @ CL30-34-34-68
Video Card(s) Gainward GeForce RTX 4080 Phantom GS
Storage 1TB Solidigm P44 Pro, 2 TB Corsair MP600 Pro, 2TB Kingston KC3000
Display(s) Acer XV272K LVbmiipruzx 4K@160Hz
Case Fractal Design Torrent Compact
Audio Device(s) Corsair Virtuoso SE
Power Supply be quiet! Pure Power 12 M 850 W
Mouse Logitech G502 Lightspeed
Keyboard Corsair K70 Max
Software Windows 10 Pro
Benchmark Scores https://valid.x86.fr/5za05v
The point is, your device will still charge. Just at a slower speed.
Have you tried charging your phone using a standard USB port that delivers 5V/500mA?
Our car has one such port and it can't keep my phone at the same battery level if I use it for navigation, as the phone draws more power than the port can deliver.
So even if this is true in many circumstances, many modern devices need at least 1A to even start charging.
 
Joined
Sep 20, 2018
Messages
1,442 (0.71/day)
It's unclear as to why the device port has to be USB-C, although a move to USB-C cables for everything does make things simpler
You answered your own question.
jokes asides usb c is being used in a lot of devices, from computers, to laptops, to game consoles, to handhelds... Making all these use the same standard reduced e wast which is why this law is inforced.
 
Joined
Sep 14, 2020
Messages
497 (0.38/day)
Location
Greece
System Name Office / HP Prodesk 490 G3 MT (ex-office)
Processor Intel 13700 (90° limit) / Intel i7-6700
Motherboard Asus TUF Gaming H770 Pro / HP 805F H170
Cooling Noctua NH-U14S / Stock
Memory G. Skill Trident XMP 2x16gb DDR5 6400MHz cl32 / Samsung 2x8gb 2133MHz DDR4
Video Card(s) Asus RTX 3060 Ti Dual OC GDDR6X / Zotac GTX 1650 GDDR6 OC
Storage Samsung 2tb 980 PRO MZ / Samsung SSD 1TB 860 EVO + WD blue HDD 1TB (WD10EZEX)
Display(s) Eizo FlexScan EV2455 - 1920x1200 / Panasonic TX-32LS490E 32'' LED 1920x1080
Case Nanoxia Deep Silence 8 Pro / HP microtower
Audio Device(s) On board
Power Supply Seasonic Prime PX750 / OEM 300W bronze
Mouse MS cheap wired / Logitech cheap wired m90
Keyboard MS cheap wired / HP cheap wired
Software W11 / W7 Pro ->10 Pro
...that almost seem to be made out of spite to make sure you can't use a different charger and sometimes they even use odd Voltages that no other company uses, so you have to to buy a replacement charger from them if it fails.
For a moment I thought you were talking again about Apple, they are by a huge margin the dirtiest. I still have an old ipad air, the original cable is almost cut-off but works. Two branded lightning cables died after 11 and 14 months respectively (and were replaced under warranty) without any sign of wear. It seems Apple is using some dirty trick even inside the cables, so any unified standard could (?) protect the customers from being milked again and again.
 

TheLostSwede

News Editor
Joined
Nov 11, 2004
Messages
15,996 (2.26/day)
Location
Sweden
System Name Overlord Mk MLI
Processor AMD Ryzen 7 7800X3D
Motherboard Gigabyte X670E Aorus Master
Cooling Noctua NH-D15 SE with offsets
Memory 32GB Team T-Create Expert DDR5 6000 MHz @ CL30-34-34-68
Video Card(s) Gainward GeForce RTX 4080 Phantom GS
Storage 1TB Solidigm P44 Pro, 2 TB Corsair MP600 Pro, 2TB Kingston KC3000
Display(s) Acer XV272K LVbmiipruzx 4K@160Hz
Case Fractal Design Torrent Compact
Audio Device(s) Corsair Virtuoso SE
Power Supply be quiet! Pure Power 12 M 850 W
Mouse Logitech G502 Lightspeed
Keyboard Corsair K70 Max
Software Windows 10 Pro
Benchmark Scores https://valid.x86.fr/5za05v
For a moment I thought you were talking again about Apple, they are by a huge margin the dirtiest. I still have an old ipad air, the original cable is almost cut-off but works. Two branded lightning cables died after 11 and 14 months respectively (and were replaced under warranty) without any sign of wear. It seems Apple is using some dirty trick even inside the cables, so any unified standard could (?) protect the customers from being milked again and again.
Apple has ID chips in many of their cables, which means you have to buy Apple cables or at least cables from a company Apple sells the ID chips too.
Technically speaking, so does USB-C with PD.

You answered your own question.
jokes asides usb c is being used in a lot of devices, from computers, to laptops, to game consoles, to handhelds... Making all these use the same standard reduced e wast which is why this law is inforced.
Yes, more or less. I'm not opposed to USB-C at all, but it does feel like the EU Commission could've compromised here, but they really do seem to have a bone to pick with Apple...
Not sure if you've read the comments in this thread, as sadly the issue isn't as simple as moving to USB-C with PD. There are still a lot more things that have to be specified before this should become a law. Apparently there will be a two year grace period before everyone has to comply as well.
 
Last edited:
Low quality post by ZoneDymo
Joined
Feb 11, 2009
Messages
5,389 (0.98/day)
System Name Cyberline
Processor Intel Core i7 2600k -> 12600k
Motherboard Asus P8P67 LE Rev 3.0 -> Gigabyte Z690 Auros Elite DDR4
Cooling Tuniq Tower 120 -> Custom Watercoolingloop
Memory Corsair (4x2) 8gb 1600mhz -> Crucial (8x2) 16gb 3600mhz
Video Card(s) AMD RX480 -> ... nope still the same :'(
Storage Samsung 750 Evo 250gb SSD + WD 1tb x 2 + WD 2tb -> 2tb MVMe SSD
Display(s) Philips 32inch LPF5605H (television) -> Dell S3220DGF
Case antec 600 -> Thermaltake Tenor HTCP case
Audio Device(s) Focusrite 2i4 (USB)
Power Supply Seasonic 620watt 80+ Platinum
Mouse Elecom EX-G
Keyboard Rapoo V700
Software Windows 10 Pro 64bit
Joined
Dec 29, 2010
Messages
3,439 (0.71/day)
Processor AMD 5900x
Motherboard Asus x570 Strix-E
Cooling Hardware Labs
Memory G.Skill 4000c17 2x16gb
Video Card(s) RTX 3090
Storage Sabrent
Display(s) Samsung G9
Case Phanteks 719
Audio Device(s) Fiio K5 Pro
Power Supply EVGA 1000 P2
Mouse Logitech G600
Keyboard Corsair K95
Cannot wait for future threads on why this port or that port is overrated/superior/flawed...
 
Joined
Mar 20, 2019
Messages
556 (0.30/day)
Processor 9600k
Motherboard MSI Z390I Gaming EDGE AC
Cooling Scythe Mugen 5
Memory 32GB of G.Skill Ripjaws V 3600MHz CL16
Video Card(s) MSI 3080 Ventus OC
Storage 2x Intel 660p 1TB
Display(s) Acer CG437KP
Case Streacom BC1 mini
Audio Device(s) Topping MX3
Power Supply Corsair RM750
Mouse R.A.T. DWS
Keyboard HAVIT KB487L / AKKO 3098 / Logitech G19
VR HMD HTC Vive
Benchmark Scores What's a "benchmark"?
And you think what the EU Commission has decided is likely to improve things?
I presume you didn't ready any of my comments above. USB PD is another swamp to navigate, if you think people have problems figuring out which end of a USB cable is for what.
I found this and I'm sure there are some missing, especially with regards to USB PD, but it contains most non USB-IF charging standards. It has nothing to do with "living in a tech bubble" it's a reality created by competition in a market that no-one really asked for competition in. It's a total mess, but when bureaucrats steps in and says "this is what we're going to use" and then don't specify which revision and subversion they had in mind of what is already a complete mess of barely compatible standards that use the same connector, it's not going to help the consumer.
Besides, USB PD is an optional part of the USB spec and a device with a USB-C port doesn't have to deliver anything more than 5V and 500mA according to the USB spec. Try charging a modern smartphone on that.
(...)
Excuse me, I might have been too concise. I absolutely agree that USB is a complete and utter mess, and in order to create a reasonable base for the market the bureaucrats would have to be far more specific.
That doesn't really make sense. USB-A and USB-C are now so wildly ubiquitous that people with an IQ above freezing temperature will be able to recognise and distinguish them.
Your suggestion's as asinine as, oh shit my new laptop charger uses C6 instead of C14, let's rip out the dry wall and put a new wall socket in to connect it!

(Admittedly buying a new charger would probably actually be smarter, see the above for the 15,363 different revisions of USB-PD, but that is another topic. The point is, your device will still charge. Just at a slower speed. And most people probably would care about just that.)
First two sentences are exactly what I meant by the "tech bubble" remark. My mother was one of the first handful of people licensed to design the local infrastructure needed for, and later manage maintenance of, MRI machines in the country. I wouldn't say she has a low IQ, but she is occupied with her own things, not USB standards, fast charging standards and such. She just wants to plug in her phone and not wait hours for it to charge on basic 500mA. As TheLostSwede mentioned above, saying "use USB, hurr durr", is just the beginning of creating an actual standard.
 
Top