• Welcome to TechPowerUp Forums, Guest! Please check out our forum guidelines for info related to our community.

AMD's Upcoming X670 Chipset Could be A Dual B650 Package, Very Difficult for ITX Board Integration

AleksandarK

News Editor
Staff member
Joined
Aug 19, 2017
Messages
2,190 (0.91/day)
As we approach the next generation of AMD's Ryzen processors, accompanying chipsets will follow the launch of their main co-host device. Enabling different levels of features across the new processor generation, chipset versions are limiting the number of options a platform offers to the end-user. AMD is designing its motherboard chipsets in collaboration with a Taiwanese design firm ASMedia. They usually develop a few chipset types covering low-end, middle-end, and high-end motherboards segments. However, it seems like the high-end motherboard segment could be populated with the same silicon as the middle-end section of the chipset stack; note a few Chinese forum members on BiliBili.

As they note, the high-end AMD X670 chipset could be a multi-chip module (MCM) design incorporating two middle-end B650 chipsets. A combination of two B650 dies is allegedly forming an X670 chipset, and that is what AMD could force motherboard makers to use. By doing so, the Mini-ITX motherboard form factor could be challenging to design and manufacture, meaning that the package of the X670 chipset could be rather extensive. This rumor should, of course, be taken with a massive grain of salt as we don't know how this would function. However, it financially makes sense as AMD wouldn't need to design and request manufacturing for an additional chipset variant.


View at TechPowerUp Main Site
 
Joined
Dec 28, 2012
Messages
3,475 (0.85/day)
System Name Skunkworks
Processor 5800x3d
Motherboard x570 unify
Cooling Noctua NH-U12A
Memory 32GB 3600 mhz
Video Card(s) asrock 6800xt challenger D
Storage Sabarent rocket 4.0 2TB, MX 500 2TB
Display(s) Asus 1440p144 27"
Case Old arse cooler master 932
Power Supply Corsair 1200w platinum
Mouse *squeak*
Keyboard Some old office thing
Software openSUSE tumbleweed/Mint 21.2
So......why do you need X670 on ITX, other then e-peen?

The first M.2 and the first x16 PCIe connector are directly wired to the CPU, and last time I checked the most you can offer is a second M.2 on the back of the ITX board. There are no other expansion slots, limited connector space for the MOBO, ece.

There is 0 need for x670 on mini itx in the first place. Both the X and B series allow CPU and memory overclocking.

EDIT: I want to add that the same applies to micro ATX. Dual GPU is dead and buried at this point, and most expansion cards have no need for the extra PCIe 4.0 bandwidth that the X series provides. Even things like 10G cards are still using 3.0x4 connectors, sata III backplanes are using 2.0x4. Noboody wants to make these with a 4.0x1, and anyone with a serious number of SSDs on backplanes is going to threadripper anyway.

Maybe I'm missing something,b ut there is no reason we cant have nice VRM designs on B series boards, like the old days when the P, Z, and H series all coexisted and all had nice options.
 
Last edited:
Low quality post by dicktracy
Joined
Jul 17, 2007
Messages
164 (0.03/day)
ITX boards don't need the "premium" chipset in the first place. The only reason the there were X570 ITX boards is that B550 were too late to the market.
Unlike Intel, AMD does not restrict features like overclocking to the higher end chipset, the only difference were bandwith and features.
 
Joined
Dec 28, 2012
Messages
3,475 (0.85/day)
System Name Skunkworks
Processor 5800x3d
Motherboard x570 unify
Cooling Noctua NH-U12A
Memory 32GB 3600 mhz
Video Card(s) asrock 6800xt challenger D
Storage Sabarent rocket 4.0 2TB, MX 500 2TB
Display(s) Asus 1440p144 27"
Case Old arse cooler master 932
Power Supply Corsair 1200w platinum
Mouse *squeak*
Keyboard Some old office thing
Software openSUSE tumbleweed/Mint 21.2
ITX boards don't need the "premium" chipset in the first place. The only reason the there were X570 ITX boards is that B550 were too late to the market.
Unlike Intel, AMD does not restrict features like overclocking to the higher end chipset, the only difference were bandwith and features.
I doubt that is the only reason. The other reason is $$$$$$$.

The gaming market has proven to be full of consoomers that will overspend needlessly on gaming PCs, see also people buying $600 i9s to play Cod when an i5 is just fine, or those that used to buy HDET CPUs for "moar corars" for their gaming machines. Or the endless RGB disasters.

There are poeple out there that will demand a X series chipset for their mini ITX board for reasons.
 
Joined
May 12, 2015
Messages
31 (0.01/day)
As they note, the high-end AMD X670 chipset could be a multi-chip module (MCM) design incorporating two middle-end B650 chipsets.

Who's noted? The author (热心市民描边怪) didn't write anything about MCM, in case you haven't noticed.

And as he pointed out in his reply - "This is the first riddle".

As far as I have seen, no one has guessed yet.
 
Joined
Oct 18, 2013
Messages
5,415 (1.42/day)
Location
Everywhere all the time all at once
System Name The Little One
Processor i5-11320H @4.4GHZ
Motherboard AZW SEI
Cooling Fan w/heat pipes + side & rear vents
Memory 64GB Crucial DDR4-3200 (2x 32GB)
Video Card(s) Iris XE
Storage WD Black SN850X 4TB m.2, Seagate 2TB SSD + SN850 4TB x2 in an external enclosure
Display(s) 2x Samsung 43" & 2x 32"
Case Practically identical to a mac mini, just purrtier in slate blue, & with 3x usb ports on the front !
Audio Device(s) Yamaha ATS-1060 Bluetooth Soundbar & Subwoofer
Power Supply 65w brick
Mouse Logitech MX Master 2
Keyboard Logitech G613 mechanical wireless
Software Windows 10 pro 64 bit, with all the unnecessary background shitzu turned OFF !
Benchmark Scores PDQ
So MCM = SLI for your mobo chipset.... oh yea, just what we need, somethin else to use up even moar electronic parts & pieces that are already in short supply hehehe :)
 
Joined
May 31, 2017
Messages
417 (0.17/day)
Processor Ryzen 5700X
Motherboard Gigabyte B550 Arous Elite V2
Cooling Thermalright PA120
Memory Kingston FURY Renegade 3600Mhz @ 3733 tight timings
Video Card(s) Sapphire Pulse RX 6800
Storage 36TB
Display(s) Samsung QN90A
Case be quiet! Dark Base Pro 900
Audio Device(s) Khadas Tone Pro 2, HD660s, KSC75, JBL 305 MK1
Power Supply Coolermaster V850 Gold V2
Mouse Roccat Burst Pro
Keyboard Dogshit with Otemu Brown
Software W10 LTSC 2021
why would an itx need an x670 in the first place
 
Joined
Nov 21, 2010
Messages
2,223 (0.46/day)
Location
Right where I want to be
System Name Miami
Processor Ryzen 3800X
Motherboard Asus Crosshair VII Formula
Cooling Ek Velocity/ 2x 280mm Radiators/ Alphacool fullcover
Memory F4-3600C16Q-32GTZNC
Video Card(s) XFX 6900 XT Speedster 0
Storage 1TB WD M.2 SSD/ 2TB WD SN750/ 4TB WD Black HDD
Display(s) DELL AW3420DW / HP ZR24w
Case Lian Li O11 Dynamic XL
Audio Device(s) EVGA Nu Audio
Power Supply Seasonic Prime Gold 1000W+750W
Mouse Corsair Scimitar/Glorious Model O-
Keyboard Corsair K95 Platinum
Software Windows 10 Pro
So MCM = Crossfire for your mobo chipset.... oh yea, just what we need, somethin else to use up even moar electronic parts & pieces that are already in short supply hehehe :)
Ftfy
 
Joined
Oct 22, 2014
Messages
13,210 (3.83/day)
Location
Sunshine Coast
System Name Black Box
Processor Intel Xeon E3-1260L v5
Motherboard MSI E3 KRAIT Gaming v5
Cooling Tt tower + 120mm Tt fan
Memory G.Skill 16GB 3600 C18
Video Card(s) Asus GTX 970 Mini
Storage Kingston A2000 512Gb NVME
Display(s) AOC 24" Freesync 1m.s. 75Hz
Case Corsair 450D High Air Flow.
Audio Device(s) No need.
Power Supply FSP Aurum 650W
Mouse Yes
Keyboard Of course
Software W10 Pro 64 bit
Joined
Feb 15, 2019
Messages
1,526 (0.82/day)
System Name Personal Gaming Rig
Processor Ryzen 7800X3D
Motherboard MSI X670E Carbon
Cooling MO-RA 3 420
Memory 32GB 6000MHz
Video Card(s) RTX 4090 ICHILL FROSTBITE ULTRA
Storage 4x 2TB Nvme
Display(s) Samsung G8 OLED
Case Silverstone FT04
X299 had iTX
EPYC had iTX ( not real iTX size but close )

I don't see the point why X670 can't have iTX
If ppl want to invest on unreasonable platform, let them and charge them hard.
 
Joined
Apr 15, 2021
Messages
844 (0.78/day)
X299 had iTX
EPYC had iTX ( not real iTX size but close )

I don't see the point why X670 can't have iTX
If ppl want to invest on unreasonable platform, let them and charge them hard.
If you don't mind me asking, what makes it an unreasonable platform? Iirc iTX is a smaller form factor vs ATX, but what are the issues with this? Would this be like shrinking a TRX40 board down to a smaller board that only has 1-2 PCIe slots and enough room for 2 sticks of RAM? If that's the case, then I would have to agree that it wouldn't make much sense, but I could be wrong.
 
Joined
Apr 19, 2018
Messages
960 (0.44/day)
Processor AMD Ryzen 9 5950X
Motherboard Asus ROG Crosshair VIII Hero WiFi
Cooling Arctic Liquid Freezer II 420
Memory 32Gb G-Skill Trident Z Neo @3806MHz C14
Video Card(s) MSI GeForce RTX2070
Storage Seagate FireCuda 530 1TB
Display(s) Samsung G9 49" Curved Ultrawide
Case Cooler Master Cosmos
Audio Device(s) O2 USB Headphone AMP
Power Supply Corsair HX850i
Mouse Logitech G502
Keyboard Cherry MX
Software Windows 11
ASMedia :cry: - Sorry, no throwup emoji

It's a shame AMD do not bite the bullet and design their own chipset, then maybe we would have decent USB without throughput and connectivity issues.
 
Joined
Feb 15, 2019
Messages
1,526 (0.82/day)
System Name Personal Gaming Rig
Processor Ryzen 7800X3D
Motherboard MSI X670E Carbon
Cooling MO-RA 3 420
Memory 32GB 6000MHz
Video Card(s) RTX 4090 ICHILL FROSTBITE ULTRA
Storage 4x 2TB Nvme
Display(s) Samsung G8 OLED
Case Silverstone FT04
If you don't mind me asking, what makes it an unreasonable platform? Iirc iTX is a smaller form factor vs ATX, but what are the issues with this? Would this be like shrinking a TRX40 board down to a smaller board that only has 1-2 PCIe slots and enough room for 2 sticks of RAM? If that's the case, then I would have to agree that it wouldn't make much sense, but I could be wrong.
For example the EPYC itx board, it cuts the 8 memory channels to 4 ,and despite fully packed with SAS connectors providing PCI-E x8 each, only 64 out of 128 lanes are utilized, there is just no more space for connectors.

As for this topic
If the X670 = 2*B650 is true, it means 2X more connections
It would face the same situation
There is physically no more space on the ITX board to fit the connectors.
Boardmakers would have to either waste all the potential they could have, or make unconventional designs (like the separated SATA connector board of X299 ITX).
 
Last edited:
Joined
Aug 18, 2015
Messages
31 (0.01/day)
Location
Poland
Processor Ryzen 5600
Motherboard B550 Aorus PRO V2
Cooling Scythe Mugen 5
Memory 32GB 3600 CL18
Video Card(s) RTX 3060Ti FTW3 Ultra
Storage Kingston KC3000 2TB, Plextor M8P 512GB
Display(s) Gigabyte M27Q + G27Q
Case Fractal Torrent Compact
Audio Device(s) Edifier R1100
Power Supply Corsair RM850x
Mouse Logitech G603
Keyboard SPC GK530 Kailh Brown
Software W11
Benchmark Scores https://www.3dmark.com/spy/32841390
The annoying thing and the problem stemming from ITX or any other board not having the top chipset is when there is glaring quality or feature loss made deliberately by the manufacturer. It's made worse if such product receives subpar firmware updates or loses out on third party support (aftermarket watercooling or other custom accessories) solely because it's not perceived as the premium top tier choice.

We've seen some shift of that paradigm with amd's B-series chipsets. B550 ITX boards specifically outcompeted the X570 equivalents by being designed and released at a later time. Some vrms got tweaked, some features upgraded and on top of that there was less heat, less noise and less ...price. The foremost downside in form of second m2 slot being gen3 wasn't really much of an issue for majority of people.
 

kbt

New Member
Joined
Dec 22, 2021
Messages
1 (0.00/day)
So......why do you need X670 on ITX, other then e-peen?

The first M.2 and the first x16 PCIe connector are directly wired to the CPU, and last time I checked the most you can offer is a second M.2 on the back of the ITX board. There are no other expansion slots, limited connector space for the MOBO, ece.

There is 0 need for x670 on mini itx in the first place. Both the X and B series allow CPU and memory overclocking.

EDIT: I want to add that the same applies to micro ATX. Dual GPU is dead and buried at this point, and most expansion cards have no need for the extra PCIe 4.0 bandwidth that the X series provides. Even things like 10G cards are still using 3.0x4 connectors, sata III backplanes are using 2.0x4. Noboody wants to make these with a 4.0x1, and anyone with a serious number of SSDs on backplanes is going to threadripper anyway.

Maybe I'm missing something,b ut there is no reason we cant have nice VRM designs on B series boards, like the old days when the P, Z, and H series all coexisted and all had nice options.
I completely concur, and the same applies to the X570 as well. I have an Asrock X570 Phantom gaming-ITX/TB3 with a 5950X, and there's nothing on that m/b that couldn't have been made with B550.

It came out before the B550, and noone bothered to make another ITX board with Thunderbolt, so it's still the only game in that town. They didn't even add a second m.2 or tb3 to try and justify X570.
 

abqnm666

New Member
Joined
Dec 22, 2021
Messages
1 (0.00/day)
ASMedia :cry: - Sorry, no throwup emoji

It's a shame AMD do not bite the bullet and design their own chipset, then maybe we would have decent USB without throughput and connectivity issues.
That's what x570 was. AMD designed and built, without Asmedia. And despite having fewer USB issues than Asmedia built b550 chipsets, they were still there as well.

But I really hope this rumor turns out to be false, because the last thing I need is more ITX board complications.
 
Joined
Apr 19, 2018
Messages
960 (0.44/day)
Processor AMD Ryzen 9 5950X
Motherboard Asus ROG Crosshair VIII Hero WiFi
Cooling Arctic Liquid Freezer II 420
Memory 32Gb G-Skill Trident Z Neo @3806MHz C14
Video Card(s) MSI GeForce RTX2070
Storage Seagate FireCuda 530 1TB
Display(s) Samsung G9 49" Curved Ultrawide
Case Cooler Master Cosmos
Audio Device(s) O2 USB Headphone AMP
Power Supply Corsair HX850i
Mouse Logitech G502
Keyboard Cherry MX
Software Windows 11
That's what x570 was. AMD designed and built, without Asmedia. And despite having fewer USB issues than Asmedia built b550 chipsets, they were still there as well.

But I really hope this rumor turns out to be false, because the last thing I need is more ITX board complications.
I'm sure x570 was a joint project, and used ASMedia's IP.
 

PaqMan

New Member
Joined
Jul 2, 2019
Messages
2 (0.00/day)
If the X670 is indeed 2X the B650, is there a possibility of seeing DUAL AM4 Socket motherboards? I'd love to run two 5950x and 256GB DDR4 ram stock on a EATX board. Be a lot cheaper option than trying to get DDR5, and if the chipset would support 3000 and 5000 for one more year, they'd get a lot of happy customers.
 

Mussels

Freshwater Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Oct 6, 2004
Messages
58,413 (8.21/day)
Location
Oystralia
System Name Rainbow Sparkles (Power efficient, <350W gaming load)
Processor Ryzen R7 5800x3D (Undervolted, 4.45GHz all core)
Motherboard Asus x570-F (BIOS Modded)
Cooling Alphacool Apex UV - Alphacool Eisblock XPX Aurora + EK Quantum ARGB 3090 w/ active backplate
Memory 2x32GB DDR4 3600 Corsair Vengeance RGB @3866 C18-22-22-22-42 TRFC704 (1.4V Hynix MJR - SoC 1.15V)
Video Card(s) Galax RTX 3090 SG 24GB: Underclocked to 1700Mhz 0.750v (375W down to 250W))
Storage 2TB WD SN850 NVME + 1TB Sasmsung 970 Pro NVME + 1TB Intel 6000P NVME USB 3.2
Display(s) Phillips 32 32M1N5800A (4k144), LG 32" (4K60) | Gigabyte G32QC (2k165) | Phillips 328m6fjrmb (2K144)
Case Fractal Design R6
Audio Device(s) Logitech G560 | Corsair Void pro RGB |Blue Yeti mic
Power Supply Fractal Ion+ 2 860W (Platinum) (This thing is God-tier. Silent and TINY)
Mouse Logitech G Pro wireless + Steelseries Prisma XL
Keyboard Razer Huntsman TE ( Sexy white keycaps)
VR HMD Oculus Rift S + Quest 2
Software Windows 11 pro x64 (Yes, it's genuinely a good OS) OpenRGB - ditch the branded bloatware!
Benchmark Scores Nyooom.
If this is true, they'd basically just be using the chipset to add more PCI-E lanes and devices
 
Joined
Jun 18, 2021
Messages
2,254 (2.22/day)
I think this is complete bullshit, why spend extra money on a more complex packaging and solving all the problems associated with it just for the chipset!? Doesn't really make sense, at least not with the limited info we currently have.

ITX boards don't need the "premium" chipset in the first place. The only reason the there were X570 ITX boards is that B550 were too late to the market.
Unlike Intel, AMD does not restrict features like overclocking to the higher end chipset, the only difference were bandwith and features.

You're looking at it just like a "premium" chipset but it's more than that. There's more to the chipset than just having an extra m.2 or an extra pcie. Like more usbs with better specs, sata, better lattencies, more and better iommu groupings, multi gb ethernet, etc etc etc.

Saying ITX boards don't need the "premium" chipset is like saying ITX boards don't need to exist, maybe not for you but someone will make use of it.

So MCM = SLI for your mobo chipset.... oh yea, just what we need, somethin else to use up even moar electronic parts & pieces that are already in short supply hehehe :)

Not really, MCM's purpose is more about being able to get bigger chips without having to pay to fab the big dies the top end products are using. SLI/Crossfire was more about parallel processing.
 

Mussels

Freshwater Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Oct 6, 2004
Messages
58,413 (8.21/day)
Location
Oystralia
System Name Rainbow Sparkles (Power efficient, <350W gaming load)
Processor Ryzen R7 5800x3D (Undervolted, 4.45GHz all core)
Motherboard Asus x570-F (BIOS Modded)
Cooling Alphacool Apex UV - Alphacool Eisblock XPX Aurora + EK Quantum ARGB 3090 w/ active backplate
Memory 2x32GB DDR4 3600 Corsair Vengeance RGB @3866 C18-22-22-22-42 TRFC704 (1.4V Hynix MJR - SoC 1.15V)
Video Card(s) Galax RTX 3090 SG 24GB: Underclocked to 1700Mhz 0.750v (375W down to 250W))
Storage 2TB WD SN850 NVME + 1TB Sasmsung 970 Pro NVME + 1TB Intel 6000P NVME USB 3.2
Display(s) Phillips 32 32M1N5800A (4k144), LG 32" (4K60) | Gigabyte G32QC (2k165) | Phillips 328m6fjrmb (2K144)
Case Fractal Design R6
Audio Device(s) Logitech G560 | Corsair Void pro RGB |Blue Yeti mic
Power Supply Fractal Ion+ 2 860W (Platinum) (This thing is God-tier. Silent and TINY)
Mouse Logitech G Pro wireless + Steelseries Prisma XL
Keyboard Razer Huntsman TE ( Sexy white keycaps)
VR HMD Oculus Rift S + Quest 2
Software Windows 11 pro x64 (Yes, it's genuinely a good OS) OpenRGB - ditch the branded bloatware!
Benchmark Scores Nyooom.
I think this is complete bullshit, why spend extra money on a more complex packaging and solving all the problems associated with it just for the chipset!? Doesn't really make sense, at least not with the limited info we currently have.



You're looking at it just like a "premium" chipset but it's more than that. There's more to the chipset than just having an extra m.2 or an extra pcie. Like more usbs with better specs, sata, better lattencies, more and better iommu groupings, multi gb ethernet, etc etc etc.

Saying ITX boards don't need the "premium" chipset is like saying ITX boards don't need to exist, maybe not for you but someone will make use of it.



Not really, MCM's purpose is more about being able to get bigger chips without having to pay to fab the big dies the top end products are using. SLI/Crossfire was more about parallel processing.
As an ITX user myself for many years (B450) - the B450 and X470 variant of my board were literally identical. The extra PCI-E lanes added and available couldnt be used since the board had nowhere to put them.
 
Top