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Can You Hear the Difference between Uncompressed and MP3 Audio?

What did you hear?

  • Yes, distinguish all tracks uncompressed vs. MP3

    Votes: 29 29.3%
  • Yes, between 320 MP3 and uncompressed vs. 128 MP3

    Votes: 48 48.5%
  • No, it all sounds the same

    Votes: 22 22.2%

  • Total voters
    99

qubit

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I disagree. The world still isn't all about streaming, and I hope it never will be. I have a huge collection of MP3s that I started collecting around 20 years ago. I won't delete them just because Youtube and Spotify exist, and not everywhere I go do I have a stable internet connection. Not to mention that even cable internet is crap where I live. I only trust what I have stored on my own devices, thanks very much. :)
And of course the killer factor for me is no DRM on MP3s. The DRM is the primary reason why I don't subscribe to any music streaming services. I want to be able to do with my music as I please - and I don't mean pirating it. I don't want to have to keep paying someone to listen to my favourite tracks and only in a way that they prescribe.

When it comes to TV, I don't like the DRM, but accept it, because the programs that I actually want to permanently keep is vanishingly small.
 
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Its the year 2022 please. Your question is totally invalid. Any streaming service worth its salt should be using AAC or equivalent in terms of efficiency of compression vs quality (Spotify uses OGG Vorbis iirc on non Apple platforms). There is no place for mp3s in this age besides old school rips that people are lazy or not able to replace with better formats, or piracy, be it illegal downloads or illegal ripping of streams.

Yeah, MP3 has gotta go. It's an obsolete format, but you see, the "problem" with MP3 is that... it works on anything, has no copy protection, and it sounds good enough for cheap sound systems/earphones and most importantly, it sounds good enough for the average joe, so just like the USB 2.0 type-A port (which is insanely obsolete at this point), it lingers because most people still judge them to be useful and do their job good enough to warrant keeping it around. I believe the same is beginning to occur with the SATA standard for PC HDDs/SSDs.

It all comes down to weighing cost against versatility against performance, and these standards have stricken perfect balance throughout the ages.

I've aggressively pursued FLAC/CD audio sources for the songs that I still keep around stored offline, but Spotify has taken over out of sheer convenience, Spotify Premium's sound quality is rather decent (not flawless, but decent), so it satisfies my needs for the most part. I have my favorite soundtrack album in 24-bit 48 kHz FLAC, and it's very easily the best sounding thing I've got. You can notice the difference in timbre and dynamic range compared to even the 16-bit files, but this obviously comes from the highest quality master there is and, again, not on junk tier monitors
 
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When it comes to digital music, doesn't it also relay on the application, codec and so on that's being used for playback?

I know from video codecs that depending on what decoder with codecs and so on you don't always get the same colours, quality and more and some people recommend a codec pack for the best experience with their files and others like only install the basic codecs and then a player.

sailor moon GIF

Good read here my take on audio in general
Hope this helps I am a retired professional chemist with a specialty in analytical instrumentation and have a relative in the recording industry. I have knowledge of the consumer and pro side of audio. I have been noticing a lot of posts about speaker and equipment recommendations etc.
Also, some are wondering why their setup disappoints at high SPL or when a quality SVS sub is added. SVS subs are musically accurate, low distortion and have minimal enclosure resonances or added unwanted vibrational modes when properly placed. With some rock music, they can be ruthlessly revealing of bad recordings.
Do not get to caught up in the specs or being a "measurebator" audio is very subjective and personal. Must listen to speakers and base purchase on your personal taste, all are voiced differently so I do not recommend one brand of speaker over another, feelings can be hurt depending on how critique is taken.

Thanks for noting your experience before validating certain principles apply to all levels of interest. I appreciated your joke even if nobody else did. Separating hard numbers into factual representative testimony carrying real world meaning (recreating test signal environment is beyond the average consumer) is as much a skill as advanced listening. It can be very helpful to understand why your equipment is incapable of abilities that claims appear to have been made on.

Appreciation of end result - within the directions it can bring personally rewarding experiences should be the aim. To amounts those pursuing it seek out intuitively better choices.

For example, I was at a high-end dealer (Early 1990) when they were showcasing a Wilson WAMM setup valued at 100K. The customer pulls out a personal recording of an oboe and a bassoon solo that he performed. After listening he says I am done with the Wilsons, why was he not satisfied? It wasn’t the 100K sticker shock, it was the fact that the system couldn’t resolve a A440 hertz note properly. To the untrained ear they sound identical but have a slight timbre difference that is noticeable to a professional Oboe/Bassoon performer. He also would dump a speaker if it couldn’t resolve a piano recording with the lid up or closed. FYI, he settled with the B&W Nautilus at 30K, I believe.

Fear many reading this will misinterpret where decadence and image intrude. Among the younger generations. In 1990 a few grand well spent came a lot closer to the highest price stuff performance wise. More people in average walks of life were involved.

Price and product integrity are no guarantee of accuracy or enjoyment. Voiced in a different manner, never shop for what you need or have become blinded by desire for. A deeper message to be unearthed is recognizing that immensely broad needs of the full population rarely make it possible for anyone to secure their unique personally compelling item. Shifting sands only rarely align even when constructing your own *x* to taste. A mature even measured approach always means enjoying what is attainable. Not what is attainable at the upper tier of your price limit. In this case the gentleman enjoyed walking away having attained the facts he needed.

One could pick apart this dealer encounter in physically inescapable terms as well. Out of the entire range of products available only a few get used on any given day in their showroom. Capacitors and other base components designed to give a long service free lifespan in use daily require use to perform optimally. This musician could very well have found his impressions to be quite different had the speakers already been used for a couple years before his audition of them. We must also take into account the special characteristics of an acoustically prepared room (atypical sound reflection and absorption) impact on the finer elements that would determine exacting correctness attempt balancing disparate elements at cost of perfecting a single oboe note.

Cheap amp equals poor sound at elevated SPL. More power equals more volume assumption. Sound output is logarithmic not linear, double power not twice as loud.
For example I am a metal fan, the sound system for Iron Maiden is approx. 300 KW at 117 dB this SPL projects thousands of feet. If I do not add speakers or change drivers, doubling power to 600 KW it is only 3 dB louder which is not noticeably louder to most.
The quality of the watt is crucial, for example a discrete Darlington hand wired transistor amp can run over 10K whereas your MosFET receivers are sub $500 (99% of gear bought today). I have a Yamaha DSP receiver, 5 ch which is MoSFET. Infinity frontend, Paradigm center and Paradigm rears, SVS SB2000 Pro sub.
The power rating is irrelevant most sound systems play sound best when at under 5 watts continuous give or take. Efficiency rating will tell you how loud a speaker plays at 1 m away with one watt in. My Infinity speakers are rated at 98 dB/watt. To reproduce distortion free sound field at ref levels you need massive reserves of power for transients.

Of course you are. :rockout: Which makes the acoustic reference above believable as sticking out in your memory.

Appreciative of the fact you took time to (truncated for space) go into detail at the amp → speaker connection. There is a dense accomodation to fast and dirty learning curves with impact being the primary aim. I'd only note a bit more zeroing in on the qualities desired at output is especially critical here.

OK, upon further thought there are two additions.

1. Impact all this impact puts back into every piece of equipment gets more important the louder you play. Headphones excluded.
2. Always turn off and unplug your amp before touching anything plugged into it or inside of it!!! !!
 
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@Mister300, that's some very good info, especially on the system not producing 1 note/hz accurately. Nice info on power, and power requirements too.
Doesn't the units THD (since we are talking power) also influence the clarity at high levels? Different SPL different THD?

8 watts 107 dB, where you say you need to spend money, due to power based THD?
 
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2. Always turn off and unplug your amp before touching anything plugged into it or inside of it!!! !!
+1 to this.

My boss at work neglected to discharge the main capacitors before grabbing a main tube socket. He then stood back up, walked back over to the amp, discharged the rest of the caps, and removed the tube socket. Capacitors can hurt - a lot.

1662236321414.png
 
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@Mister300, that's some very good info, especially on the system not producing 1 note/hz accurately. Nice info on power, and power requirements too.
Doesn't the units THD (since we are talking power) also influence the clarity at high levels? Different SPL different THD?

8 watts 107 dB, where you say you need to spend money, due to power based THD?
Just a tangential thought. There's a saying that goes something like ... If the first watt isn't good, why would you want a hundred more of those?
 
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+1 to this.

My boss at work neglected to discharge the main capacitors before grabbing a main tube socket. He then stood back up, walked back over to the amp, discharged the rest of the caps, and removed the tube socket. Capacitors can hurt - a lot.

View attachment 260539
Yeah the 4 Sprauge electroytic power supply capacitors in the Threshold amp are rated at 250,000 microfarad. You could unplug it and jump start a car. Lethal voltages here. Amp output was one HP (800 watts) at 8 ohms. Class A design all hand wired and matched Darlington transistors in a TO3 package.
 
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Semi related question, is uncompressed sound actually lossless, shouldn't it be the same as the ADC that input it? Acoustic instruments need microphones correct?
I guess an electric drum set and guitar could possibly output PCM direct without an ADC for recording purposes.

Does the lossless part actually refer to the audio after the ADC, as in being PCM did not make it worse.
 
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@Mister300, that's some very good info, especially on the system not producing 1 note/hz accurately. Nice info on power, and power requirements too.
Doesn't the units THD (since we are talking power) also influence the clarity at high levels? Different SPL different THD?

8 watts 107 dB, where you say you need to spend money, due to power based THD?
 
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Acoustic instruments need microphones correct?
I guess an electric drum set and guitar could possibly output PCM direct without an ADC for recording purposes.
To be a bit pedantic, only the electric drumset would be true digital. Electric guitar pickups would still be outputting analog signal, so a digital output would just mean that the conversion was done in-body. If you used USB mics, it would be the same sort of thing.
 
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Indeed, but would the digital audio from an electric set be based off a recording done via ADC, or is it possible to correctly synthesise each note directly in PCM?

Different amps with electric guitars produce different results, as much as microphones.
 
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I disagree. The world still isn't all about streaming, and I hope it never will be. I have a huge collection of MP3s that I started collecting around 20 years ago. I won't delete them just because Youtube and Spotify exist, and not everywhere I go do I have a stable internet connection. Not to mention that even cable internet is crap where I live. I only trust what I have stored on my own devices, thanks very much. :)
Right there with you on every single point!!
 
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Yeah, MP3 has gotta go.
Why?

It's an obsolete format,
It is not, because:
most people still judge them to be useful and do their job good enough to warrant keeping it around. I believe the same is beginning to occur with the SATA standard for PC HDDs/SSDs.
Exactly this. Obsolescence is determined by not being useful anymore, and not by time passed since release. MP3, just like SATA is still not obsolete at all.

The whole concept of streaming music and films makes me sad. It's the precursor of an Orwellian, "you'll own nothing and you'll be happy" type of world.
 
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There is not that much of a difference to ears between a cd quality and and 320 kps. But from 320 kps and down to 128 kps. Yes there are definitely a sound difference in quality and it can be quite bad as well going that low.

So I voted for the middle.
 
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Almost anyone can tell the difference if you pick the right material. I have 96kbps of simple pop/techno that sounds as good as FLAC, I have filled-out rock that sounds like it's lost a lot even at 320kbps

Just like with image and video compression, some things compress fantastically without losing much quality, others barely compress and look like shit if you try.
 

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I have 96kbps of simple pop/techno that sounds as good as FLAC, I have filled-out rock that sounds like it's lost a lot even at 320kbps
I'm not surprised. I've looked at various kinds of music in an audio editor and zoomed right in until I could see the waveform. Rock music had a much more complex waveform than electronic music, so removing parts of it with lossy compression might change the character of the sound by a lot more than electronic music.
 
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Indeed, but would the digital audio from an electric set be based off a recording done via ADC, or is it possible to correctly synthesise each note directly in PCM?

Different amps with electric guitars produce different results, as much as microphones.
Choice of mic will dramatically affect sound. Stereophile magazine did a test where the editor spoke and recorded his voice with 15 diff mics and the sounds changes from mic to mic. Some were smooth and some are sibilant and harsh. For example here is a review of a pair of headphones and this is some of the headphones flaws.

  • Piercingly bright in the treble region for most people
  • EQ doesn't fix this deficiency without losing technical performance
  • Some female vocals can sound hollow in the upper mids, and others can be sibilant
Too many flaws at this price could be the mics fault depending on what the engineer used.
 
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Why?


It is not, because:

Exactly this. Obsolescence is determined by not being useful anymore, and not by time passed since release. MP3, just like SATA is still not obsolete at all.

The whole concept of streaming music and films makes me sad. It's the precursor of an Orwellian, "you'll own nothing and you'll be happy" type of world.

It's mostly semantics :)

Technologically obsolete doesn't mean that it fell into disuse, it simply means that it was replaced by better technology. In the case of all of these three, they've already been replaced by significantly better technology, too. But I agree on principle.
 
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It's mostly semantics :)

Technologically obsolete doesn't mean that it fell into disuse, it simply means that it was replaced by better technology. In the case of all of these three, they've already been replaced by significantly better technology, too. But I agree on principle.
Instead of "replaced by", I'd rather say "complemented by". I see what you mean, though. :)
 
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I'm not surprised. I've looked at various kinds of music in an audio editor and zoomed right in until I could see the waveform. Rock music had a much more complex waveform than electronic music, so removing parts of it with lossy compression might change the character of the sound by a lot more than electronic music.

A flac file of solo piano will compress to a much smaller file size at the same compression level as a studio rock album. When both have identical uncompressed file sizes. For exactly the reason you have discovered.

How are your explorations within Audacity coming along? Appears you are making some good choices thus far.
 

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A flac file of solo piano will compress to a much smaller file size at the same compression level as a studio rock album. When both have identical uncompressed file sizes. For exactly the reason you have discovered.

How are your explorations within Audacity coming along? Appears you are making some good choices thus far.
Yes, it's the amount of variation that causes that difference.

I don't know when I'll get round to it, I'm afraid, so please don't wait. I should explain that it was a really long time ago when I looked at those waveforms, as in years.
 
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Semi related question, is uncompressed sound actually lossless, shouldn't it be the same as the ADC that input it? Acoustic instruments need microphones correct?
I guess an electric drum set and guitar could possibly output PCM direct without an ADC for recording purposes.

Does the lossless part actually refer to the audio after the ADC, as in being PCM did not make it worse.
As others have explained, lossless audio (or video, or photo) does not exist. The lossless part of digital audio chain is data transmission over wire/fibre/air, writing to a medium, storing on a medium, and reading from a medium. If you have FLAC or other lossless audio compression somewhere in between then the compression and decompression process is also lossless. Encryption and decryption too if it's used.
Bit errors can occur of course but their number can be reduced to an arbitrarily low amount. And when they do occur, they can only be heard as clicks or pops and don't cause any other sort of noise and distortion.
 
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As long as my SVS pb1000 is belting out large quantities of dirty stinking bass, I really couldn't give a large poop. I am a fan of drum and bass and I love BASS. 18hz is a very good amount of hz. If I had the money, I'd have 4 SVS pb 16 ultra's. In one room. and progressively make myself completely deaf. Flac, wac or wiggidy wiggidy wac. I just don't care and love my System Check Remaster from Mr Ed Solo himself. Lots of bass sweeps from a 720 watt RMS sub = me grinning like I'm on drugs.
 
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@Wirko, indeed, its my way of pointing things out. Some people are under a false impression with lossless audio.

Edit:

There is however, making it worse:

Lossy equipment (unavoidable) > Lossless format of it (no further loss) > Converted to lossy format, re-processed, other.
Lossy equipment (unavoidable) > Lossless format of it (no further loss).
 
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