• Welcome to TechPowerUp Forums, Guest! Please check out our forum guidelines for info related to our community.

Stop Killing Games Petition Passes 1 Million-Signature Milestone—Now One Step Closer to EU Parliament

The number sounds impressive, but did online petitions ever reach any actual parliament in the history of online petitions?
Check out the history of the lootbox, I would say.
The answer is yes
 
The number sounds impressive, but did online petitions ever reach any actual parliament in the history of online petitions?
It's not a simple petition, it's a European citizens’ initiative, a european mecanism in place for european citizen to draw attention to a problem. That's a bit different than your traditional change.org petition.

What happens when the company behind the game goes bankrupt, or is otherwise closed down and no one is left to change the code?
What happens when the entire (multiplayer?) game is build around a robust client/server model, and you want to take the server part out of it? You just change literally the entire game to fit that?

It's a lovely dream to preserve games. But I don't see this as realistic at all.
The code can stay close, but the thing is there must be a way, anything up to the developer judgement, for the player to still play it. Either a solo mode or a way to play it online, and there's probably other solution. Nothing is set in stone in SKG demand, every question you can have get answered https://www.stopkillinggames.com/faq
 
now it will be decided how much lobbyists can bribe to get votes in their favor against.

Something like this cant be done in the US there is too much money floating around Congress against anything the People want.
Just like Apple USB-C this will fly over to the US.

Developers can't afford to exclude UK and EU for gaming.
 
Just like Apple USB-C this will fly over to the US.

Developers can't afford to exclude UK and EU for gaming.

Totally different topics, it's barely an inconvenience to make the game available in one region and not in another.
These are digital goods, making such a distinction is easy, there is no hardware, no fabrication to limit what you can do.
 
Totally different topics, it's barely an inconvenience to make the game available in one region and not in another.
These are digital goods, making such a distinction is easy, there is no hardware, no fabrication to limit what you can do.
Well i wouldn't miss out on much anyway if they decided to ignore EU, i havn't bought a AAA game since Skyrim :)
 
Well i wouldn't miss out on much anyway if they decided to ignore EU, i havn't bought a AAA game since Skyrim :)

my last one was CP77, we are not making the EU look good here :D
 
The crew is on my TODO list, guess its now a software brick?
 
I'll not sign it because of STEAM and similar software which is not needed in the first place.

There are plenty of games and open source games which show that such bloatware is not needed. It is for advertising. People bought steam for 25 years. People should live with all that bloatware.

I want a paper box, paper handbook and very high quality kingston or similar usb pen drive which is larger as the game with the full game files. a digital download option for a while, e.g. 10 year should be additional avaiable. I do not see where the issue is when games costs now 120€ per game, sometimes around 60€.
 
I'll not sign it because of STEAM and similar software which is not needed in the first place.

There are plenty of games and open source games which show that such bloatware is not needed. It is for advertising. People bought steam for 25 years. People should live with all that bloatware.
Are you okay? Buster wolf How does Steam even relate to the point of the movement? In fact, bloatware or not, Steam actually actively helps game preservation by the fact that any unlisted game is still available for download from their CDN without issue. And Valve themselves have consistently offered LAN and self hosted dedicated servers for all their releases. They are literally the opposite of the problem the petition is aimed at.
 
Last edited:
I'll not sign it because of STEAM and similar software which is not needed in the first place.

couldn't you fight your cold first and try and fight you cancer next, or because you have cancer you can die of a common cold? help me understand
 
I am a little perplexed why people are arguing against this.

It's an issue people want to have addressed by the EU. How it gets addressed and how the sausage is made etc is an argument for later.
 
No problem. Here you go.
Here is our undocumented spaghetti code... of course without the 50 patented modules for video, sound, physics, compression, network etc. etc. that we have been paying other companies for on a yearly basis. Of course we cannot release other peoples code.
"Good luck"
"Thanks, better than what we had."
 
Totally different topics, it's barely an inconvenience to make the game available in one region and not in another.
These are digital goods, making such a distinction is easy, there is no hardware, no fabrication to limit what you can do.
There is jealousy though, so you can rest assured the US will be adopting this because of sheer pressure.
 
Nowadays any license worth grabbing isn't going to stay an "orphan", they will be bought by another company that will handle the support. Just look at what Happened with THQ
*coughs coughs* Kerbal Space Program *Coughs coughs*

Yes I know its not technically orphaned, but damn close to it.
 
Are you okay? Buster wolf How does Steam even relate to the point of the movement? In fact, bloatware or not, Steam actually actively helps game preservation by the fact that any unlisted game is still available for download from their CDN without issue. And Valve themselves have consistently offered LAN and self hosted dedicated servers for all their releases. They are literally the opposite of the problem the petition is aimed at.
Ehehehehe as long as Steam lasts, yeah.
Its a completely different playing field, that of distribution. So as a distributor, they're doing a fine job. But they ain't preserving games for anyone.
 
Ehehehehe as long as Steam lasts, yeah.
Its a completely different playing field, that of distribution. So as a distributor, they're doing a fine job. But they ain't preserving games for anyone.
Valve have been on record saying that in the extremely unlikely chance of Steam going down they do have some sort of contingency plan for their customers. Now, obviously we have no idea what that is and whether or not it would even be implemented, but they at the very least did publicly state that they aren’t by default going for “service down = your games gone” path.
 
I'll not sign it because of STEAM and similar software which is not needed in the first place.

There are plenty of games and open source games which show that such bloatware is not needed. It is for advertising. People bought steam for 25 years. People should live with all that bloatware.

I want a paper box, paper handbook and very high quality kingston or similar usb pen drive which is larger as the game with the full game files. a digital download option for a while, e.g. 10 year should be additional avaiable. I do not see where the issue is when games costs now 120€ per game, sometimes around 60€.
I'll be the devil's advocate: steam is convenient. Their sales are aggressive, so I can save money. They handle multiplayer for some games, and i don't to pay a monthly fee so that X publisher can afford to run a high performance networking system. The way that steam works also allows one to discover gems among smaller games. I can't always keep up with release, but Steam do a good job at putting forward games that have a positive reception, or have pertinent recommandations for similar games that you liked. There's other stuff that steam does that doesn't just make a store, but streamline some aspect of PC gaming. Like their powerfull API for controllers. You get detailled patchnotes in app without having to hunt them down on the game's website, there's community to exchange with weither it's about tips, great mods... And saves in the clouds. Good Lord that was such a QoL.

The FOSS model isn't going to work for everyone, because it's often stale, and more often than not geared towards people who care so much about software that they aren't representative of the needs of the many. People just like stuff that makes their life easy, that's why steam became such a hit in the first place.

You seem to have the impression that game are rising in cost because they are increasing their margins, when the reality is that they have to increase the price to keep up with their expense and still make a benefit. Second, that USB stick would probably come with a DRM that would require the stick to be plugged to prove that bought the game. No way in hell that publishers would just distribute defensless game files across the world like that. That device would probably be a USB security key for the game distributed on it.
 
What can I say... The guy did a great work. And so much still has to be done. As this is just the beginning... The most twisty ways are only ahead. I'd even say, he opened another level can of worms.
I'm not praising anybody. But, on the other hand, more of such people are needed.... if there were more of responsible and determined people, the gaming intustry, heck, the world wouldn't happen in such deep sh*t, it is at right now. It would never happen.
Legally, they'd have to release the code if they aren't transferring it. And let's be realistic, it almost always gets transferred.
Transfered, or... dumped. There are tons of great games, that came before the live service/always onlyne requirement became a thing. However, if that game by a big publisher was popular, and coincidentally still is, due to community support, the chances that it is going to to be recovered, or let alone officially revived, are miserable.
Just a bad example BF2, that was so popular and widespread. It was published at so manyways. It was even available at Steam... It is still being supported by community, and had many iterations of conversion mods, many people play it every day.
But... what was and is the stance of EA? They have sent the cease and desist, to all communty modders, including both BF2 and BF2142. Justifying it as time to move on, to the new and interesting games, to new endeavours.

Heck EA won't listen, and evaluate the data, the preferences, calls of players and community. They will rather fall, digging their faces into the ground. They already have been slammed by reviews of 2042, but they just ignore the reality, and keep pushing their cr*p to everyone throat. Yes, the game might finally aquired the playable shape. But it still if far from what Battlefield. And EA surely, wont re-release the BF2, 2142, 3, or 4 for sure. Because then, their MTX and live service riddled garbage, would plummet in sales, imediately.

And this is the same fate for all EA and Ubisoft, and many other big publishers games.

Don't get me wrong. I don't like, or play BF games. But it's still an example.

You'd be surprised how much more useful this is than absolutely nothing.
But considering your tone you're not arguing in good faith.
Yeah! So many games, so many modders and communities have emerged and gone, while waiting until the tools and code to be released. But alas! The work of hundred, in not thousands of incredibly talented and enthusiastic people, community modders/developers have drowned in vain. So many projects went nowhere. People were fixing games for decades, because the original developers left the games half way, in half-wrecked state. Heck, so many games, that community told to publishers, that they would gladly carry the burden of maintenace of the said games for free. But no publishers rather destroy the IP, than let it be successful. Let alone, be shared/distributed for free, by someone, who values it.

I don't even mention the games that are not salvagable, because of GFWL code being injected and intertwisted with the game/engine cores. Now that service is long gone, so are so many great games, that been unfortunate to implement that disease.
But we are already preserving games. Its a whole scene and it will never go away. Its also something I would prefer to do legally.

The only reason companies don't do it is because they think it hurts their bottom line. But it ain't like that at all. Look at the popularity of remasters. People will pay again for the same shit in a new coat. And again, and again. The funny thing is, it seems some companies are starting to realize this, as they bundle their vanilla version with a remaster that already gets sold at a lower price than a new game. There is real money here, not lost money, but more money, for minimal effort.

Similar things apply to piracy and 'illegal' downloading, even of music (I do think movies are exempt, they're literally a one-time affair for most, piracy definitely hurts it). Lots of music gains traction because it is available for free. Not because its behind a paywall, and this applies to games too. Heck, even companies know this when they release F2P content - pay later, whatever you like! And people... pay.
The preservation depends a lot on the will of publishers, to share their IP. Something tells me, these folks won't do any right move, even if they would be under the gun, let alone being legally pressured. They don't fear it. They know, they will find ways to circuimvent any court decision, and continue to do what they doing, and did for decades.

Many remasters are complete garbage. They either do not implement any innovations, fixes, or even degrade in features and quality, becoming the demasters. The sole existance of these remasters, are the evidence that they've been released, because they suit the publisher's will, and not to favor the player-base.

But I agree. The people were telling companies, what games they like, and for what features, qualities. The data is there, it's on forums, communities, discords, reddit, and other social platforms etc, it's all in public access. The statistic, of game playabiltiy, is everywhere. The companies don't give a dang. They bend the market, like the river beds.

So yeah, the publisher know very well, which games are in favor, and that they could get piles of money, by redistributing old games again, without even a single change. But the won't. Because as I've said before, this means that the publishers would have to accept, that their current ideas, concepts is DOA, it's an utter garbage. The projects, that have been fed millions into, and which brought billions in return.

I strongly doubt, that EU, even if they will do everything correct, will be able, to push the law upon the game maker companies heads.

A lot of the "illegal downloading" are mainly the result of horrible services, and always of bad accessibility. Yes, the free content will be always be in favor, because it is accessible.
Surely, many people woul keep downloading illegaly, even if they will have money to buy legaly. But many do so, due to the absence of enough money, which is financial accessibility. Be it available with e.g. adjusted price, according to the income in the particular country, there would be more sells.
Music industry has a bit better situation, because there is enough of streaming services, and the coverage is a lot bigger. Also, the "illegal" downloads, eventually benefit both publishers and the musicians, as it solves one of its issues issues- distribution, and popularizing. A lot of artists become renown, because of "illegal" spread.

On the other hand, there is the service unavailability. A lot of people, in a lot of countries, could "bite the bullet", and buy the stuff, to support the devs, for legal reasons, and to avoid the malware. So far, the game services, (outside the Steam, and maybe GoG, as the biggest among accessible storefronts) are not available everywhere. The purchaseability beyond the NA and EU is significantly lower, due to wealth difference. But it is there, nonetheless.

And more and more of publishing companies, are pushing their greedy will, and make the price region-indifferent. So the gamer in third-world country, pays the same, as the one in higher-income country, is primary market (thus sets the price).

This is opposite to bein accessible. This leads to isolation of gamers with bigger wealth, making it their only hobby, dertroying the playerbase, and unity, communications, between the players. This is against the whole point of the games- to get together people across the world, to remove the wealth, age, gender and other barriers and differences. So everyone could find a joy from both, gaming itself, and the communication.

Jacking the game prices, even retroactively, makes the games unatractive, or even inaccessible altogether, for many people. It's like the game publishers don't want for their games to be poular, or sold at all. The GPU prices put the nails into the game intustry eventual coffin.

Also, the game makers, movie makers, and copyright overall, like to use "piracy" for their bad services, and erroneous decisions. They use it as the reason, for not widen and easening the distribution. And then, the regions, where the product availability is poor they us that as a shield, to bash consumers for the raise of piracy, and untrustworthiness.


It's not a simple petition, it's a European citizens’ initiative, a european mecanism in place for european citizen to draw attention to a problem. That's a bit different than your traditional change.org petition.


The code can stay close, but the thing is there must be a way, anything up to the developer judgement, for the player to still play it. Either a solo mode or a way to play it online, and there's probably other solution. Nothing is set in stone in SKG demand, every question you can have get answered https://www.stopkillinggames.com/faq
Even a simple petition is powerful enough, if... there is a willingness to accept and exceute it. Once, THQ (as much as Clifford B and MS/Epic) was preaching, that PC users are the bane, and they are the source of piracy, and that Space Marine would never happen on this platform. One an a half decades later, the visually astonishing successor title, was released, as much as SEGA trying to beat the dead horse, and try to resell the same old game (that wasn't even developed by them) for the second time. And this esists only, because back in 2010, THQ was forced to meet the demand and execute the petition, they themselves thought is unachievable.
 
There is jealousy though, so you can rest assured the US will be adopting this because of sheer pressure.
I doubt that will happen anytime soon, we'd prolly have to go thru the same process of a petition..
 
What happens when the company behind the game goes bankrupt, or is otherwise closed down and no one is left to change the code?
In that situation the public would be free to alter/recode as needed to preserve.
It's a lovely dream to preserve games. But I don't see this as realistic at all.
No, it's a reality, it's been done and is being done right now, it's just not completely legal. We need it to be legal.
 
The guy with a catchphrase of "eat my entire ass" has nothing to do with the success of this initiative, Ross did most of the good PR and helped push to meet the goal. Hell, they were at 700k signatures a week ago when I signed.
No matter if pirate intended to or not he stoked the fire and youtubers picked it up and ran with the flames to wider audiences.

I am actually. I would love to see it happen. There are just too many examples where I think it won't happen anyway. I'm trying to be realistic about it.
In my mind the most difficult challenge to get around is the fact you don't actually own the software. You own the media it resides on and paid for a license to a virtual experience. If that experience sucks oh well tough nuggets. It would be nice to run software forever but it seems the industry is not really interested in letting that happen.

Having said that it would be nice to have games that don't require to have online accounts to function and launchers collect your data when they really don't need them.
It would also be nice if Sony got on the emulation bandwagon and provided backward compatibility for their consoles but fat chance that ever happening. RIP PS3 it was fun while it lasted.
 
Last edited:
Back
Top