• Welcome to TechPowerUp Forums, Guest! Please check out our forum guidelines for info related to our community.

Microsoft Spins Over a 'Mojave' Approach to Grow Vista User-base

Joined
Mar 29, 2007
Messages
4,838 (0.78/day)
System Name Aquarium
Processor Ryzen 9 7950x
Motherboard ROG Strix X670-E
Cooling Lian Li Galahead 360 AIO
Memory 2x16gb Flare X5 Series 32GB (2 x 16GB) DDR5-6000 PC5-48000
Video Card(s) Asus RTX 3060
Storage 2TB WD SN850X Black NVMe, 500GB Samsung 970 NVMe
Display(s) Gigabyte 32" IPS 144Hz
Case Hyte Y60
Power Supply Corsair RMx 850
Software Win 11 Pro/ PopOS!
See, I don't get the spec req argument at all. I for one am quite glad that new software requires more hardware power to run, not directly but b/c this indicates advancement. We have these super gpu's like the gtx 280 and soon the 4870x2 and no games that require or utilize their power. But you can bet if we did there'd be a whole mess of people complaining they couldn't play w/ their cards. So, you gotta choose, advancement (even if that means you yourself have to wait until you can enjoy it), or hold all technology back until everyone can take advantage of it, or keep it the same so no one has to worry about something new. I choose the first.

Also, since when did the operating system all about speed? That seems to be another big argument, you get a few more fps or things load a bit faster. Although I myself believe my experience has been the opposite (I've found vista to be more responsive and have had better gameplay by far), I still don't understand why a few seconds here and there and a few fps is better than better graphics and a more powerful and more intuitive interface.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Aug 22, 2007
Messages
3,450 (0.57/day)
Location
CA, US
System Name :)
Processor Intel 13700k
Motherboard Gigabyte z790 UD AC
Cooling Noctua NH-D15
Memory 64GB GSKILL DDR5
Video Card(s) Gigabyte RTX 4090 Gaming OC
Storage 960GB Optane 905P U.2 SSD + 4TB PCIe4 U.2 SSD
Display(s) Alienware AW3423DW 175Hz QD-OLED + Nixeus 27" IPS 1440p 144Hz
Case Fractal Design Torrent
Audio Device(s) MOTU M4 - JBL 305P MKII w/2x JL Audio 10 Sealed --- X-Fi Titanium HD - Presonus Eris E5 - JBL 4412
Power Supply Silverstone 1000W
Mouse Roccat Kain 122 AIMO
Keyboard KBD67 Lite / Mammoth75
VR HMD Reverb G2 V2
Software Win 11 Pro
I got vista for free so... meh
It works great on my machine, and I prefer it over XP.
I understand why some people dislike vista... some people don't want/have time to learn a new OS.
Win 95/98/ME/2000/XP were pretty similar compared to Vista which is a bit different.
 

Kreij

Senior Monkey Moderator
Joined
Feb 6, 2007
Messages
13,817 (2.21/day)
Location
Cheeseland (Wisconsin, USA)
I agree Mussels, the other argument that I see is that Vista uses a lot of RAM.
That is interesting, as one has to wonder exactly why you have RAM.
An operating system that makes use of your RAM is a good thing in my eyes.
What is the point of having 4GB of RAM and the OS only uses 400MB ?
Vista happily releases anything it put in RAM that it is not using when you load up something that requires a large amount of RAM.
Personally, I want my system to use the hardware I bought.
 

Mussels

Freshwater Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Oct 6, 2004
Messages
58,413 (8.21/day)
Location
Oystralia
System Name Rainbow Sparkles (Power efficient, <350W gaming load)
Processor Ryzen R7 5800x3D (Undervolted, 4.45GHz all core)
Motherboard Asus x570-F (BIOS Modded)
Cooling Alphacool Apex UV - Alphacool Eisblock XPX Aurora + EK Quantum ARGB 3090 w/ active backplate
Memory 2x32GB DDR4 3600 Corsair Vengeance RGB @3866 C18-22-22-22-42 TRFC704 (1.4V Hynix MJR - SoC 1.15V)
Video Card(s) Galax RTX 3090 SG 24GB: Underclocked to 1700Mhz 0.750v (375W down to 250W))
Storage 2TB WD SN850 NVME + 1TB Sasmsung 970 Pro NVME + 1TB Intel 6000P NVME USB 3.2
Display(s) Phillips 32 32M1N5800A (4k144), LG 32" (4K60) | Gigabyte G32QC (2k165) | Phillips 328m6fjrmb (2K144)
Case Fractal Design R6
Audio Device(s) Logitech G560 | Corsair Void pro RGB |Blue Yeti mic
Power Supply Fractal Ion+ 2 860W (Platinum) (This thing is God-tier. Silent and TINY)
Mouse Logitech G Pro wireless + Steelseries Prisma XL
Keyboard Razer Huntsman TE ( Sexy white keycaps)
VR HMD Oculus Rift S + Quest 2
Software Windows 11 pro x64 (Yes, it's genuinely a good OS) OpenRGB - ditch the branded bloatware!
Benchmark Scores Nyooom.
well to be honest my rams a lot faster than my HDD, so yeah... i prefer my OS to be loaded into ram.

you kinda cant argue with that...
 

DarkMatter

New Member
Joined
Oct 5, 2007
Messages
1,714 (0.28/day)
Processor Intel C2Q Q6600 @ Stock (for now)
Motherboard Asus P5Q-E
Cooling Proc: Scythe Mine, Graphics: Zalman VF900 Cu
Memory 4 GB (2x2GB) DDR2 Corsair Dominator 1066Mhz 5-5-5-15
Video Card(s) GigaByte 8800GT Stock Clocks: 700Mhz Core, 1700 Shader, 1940 Memory
Storage 74 GB WD Raptor 10000rpm, 2x250 GB Seagate Raid 0
Display(s) HP p1130, 21" Trinitron
Case Antec p180
Audio Device(s) Creative X-Fi PLatinum
Power Supply 700W FSP Group 85% Efficiency
Software Windows XP
the only rational arguments that have come up so far, is that systems with 1GB of ram or less shouldnt use vista.

so far, no one else has had anything else to offer in argument of XP over vista. To be honest i agree - if your rig is so old that you only have 1GB of ram, stay the hell away from vista. its a great OS, but its not for old rigs like that.

before people complain that they dont want to buy more ram... well i'd never game on XP with 1GB again either, lol.

You have to think that there's no argument of Vista over XP either, which is the point. For most of the people, it's not deciding between new XP or Vista, is stick to XP or shell out the money for an OS that is still not better than what they already have. I read somewhere more than 90% of houses in the US and more than 80% in EU have a PC, so the market is narrower. Add to that the growing percentage of people that know how to upgrade and do upgrade their hardware (versus buying a complete new one) and the fact that the rest of people are heading towards cheaper PCs like Asus Eee. That means that there's fewer people that would require to buy a brand new OS. That leaves only the posibility of an upgrade from XP. That's the truth for anyone that I know personally. And the fact is that right now Vista is not an upgrade for anyone with XP. We have just one more factor, and that is that XP is the Windows that lasted more, so much that most of the PCs out there now are running XP or at least Win 2000. That was not the case with previous versions, any comparison between Vista and previous releases is pointless. Growth base was a lot bigger, price difference smaller and the dominant hardware was faster when compared to high-end than today. Vista could only be a success if it offered something that was a lot better than XP, when in reality has been totally the contrary for too long. Expecting to sell an OS that is struggling to compete with the OS it is supposed to replace is naive at best. In that situation Vista is been trying to keep up with XP rather than improving over it. Even right now is not better enough to worth an upgrade except for most enthusiast people, and not for all of them. How could it be good for Average Joe then?

EDIT: And the RAM argument you guys are using is not valid IMO. Just because we can have more RAM and current aplications don't use it we need an OS to waste it? Obviously no, wasting memory is not using it, it's better to just leave it unused. Vista uses a lot more RAM and I haven't seen any benefit on my laptop. That only means it is using more RAM for nothing. With 4GB probably it doesn't matter, with 2GB it does, and honestly how many people have 4GB of RAM nowadays. Don't start looking in these forums, obviously a lot will have...
 
Last edited:
Joined
Mar 29, 2007
Messages
4,838 (0.78/day)
System Name Aquarium
Processor Ryzen 9 7950x
Motherboard ROG Strix X670-E
Cooling Lian Li Galahead 360 AIO
Memory 2x16gb Flare X5 Series 32GB (2 x 16GB) DDR5-6000 PC5-48000
Video Card(s) Asus RTX 3060
Storage 2TB WD SN850X Black NVMe, 500GB Samsung 970 NVMe
Display(s) Gigabyte 32" IPS 144Hz
Case Hyte Y60
Power Supply Corsair RMx 850
Software Win 11 Pro/ PopOS!
You have to think that there's no argument of Vista over XP either, which is the point. For most of the people, it's not deciding between new XP or Vista, is stick to XP or shell out the money for an OS that is still not better than what they already have. I read somewhere more than 90% of houses in the US and more than 80% in EU have a PC, so the market is narrower. Add to that the growing percentage of people that know how to upgrade and do upgrade their hardware (versus buying a complete new one) and the fact that the rest of people are heading towards cheaper PCs like Asus Eee. That means that there's fewer people that would require to buy a brand new OS. That leaves only the posibility of an upgrade from XP. That's the truth for anyone that I know personally. And the fact is that right now Vista is not an upgrade for anyone with XP. We have just one more factor, and that is that XP is the Windows that lasted more, so much that most of the PCs out there now are running XP or at least Win 2000. That was not the case with previous versions, any comparison between Vista and previous releases is pointless. Growth base was a lot bigger, price difference smaller and the dominant hardware was faster when compared to high-end than today. Vista could only be a success if it offered something that was a lot better than XP, when in reality has been totally the contrary for too long. Expecting to sell an OS that is struggling to compete with the OS it is supposed to replace is naive at best. In that situation Vista is been trying to keep up with XP rather than improving over it. Even right now is not better enough to worth an upgrade except for most enthusiast people, and not for all of them. How could it be good for Average Joe then?

Good points. Vista I think is a better OS than xp, but to the average Joe there isn't much reason to upgrade, aside from MCE and DX10 if gaming. Snazzier and more powerful interface isn't enough reason to pay to upgrade. But it's gotten to the point that people who are buying completely new machines don't even want vista b/c it's gotten so much bad press. And that should be quelled b/c for home use it IS better, especially w/ a new machines hardware. Upgrading though, maybe not so much.

EDIT: And the RAM argument you guys are using is not valid IMO. Just because we can have more RAM and current aplications don't use it we need an OS to waste it? Obviously no, wasting memory is not using it, it's better to just leave it unused. Vista uses a lot more RAM and I haven't seen any benefit on my laptop. That only means it is using more RAM for nothing. With 4GB probably it doesn't matter, with 2GB it does, and honestly how many people have 4GB of RAM nowadays. Don't start looking in these forums, obviously a lot will have...

The OS does use it, it doesn't just waste it. Try using vista on 2gb and then 4gb. The os uses different amounts for the different amounts of ram it has accessible, and it's noticeable. Vista is more powerful, and it does require more hardware, and it does it well. Standard today is 2gb. Most machines bought in the last year or so that wasn't on the super cheap will have 2gb. And that will run vista fine, but 4gb does it better. So I can't see how you can say the OS doesn't use it. You can't compare it to xp, it is different.
 
Last edited:

Kursah

Super Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Oct 15, 2006
Messages
14,666 (2.30/day)
Location
Missoula, MT, USA
System Name Kursah's Gaming Rig 2018 (2022 Upgrade) - Ryzen+ Edition | Gaming Laptop (Lenovo Legion 5i Pro 2022)
Processor R7 5800X @ Stock | i7 12700H @ Stock
Motherboard Asus ROG Strix X370-F Gaming BIOS 6203| Legion 5i Pro NM-E231
Cooling Noctua NH-U14S Push-Pull + NT-H1 | Stock Cooling
Memory TEAMGROUP T-Force Vulcan Z 32GB (2x16) DDR4 4000 @ 3600 18-20-20-42 1.35v | 32GB DDR5 4800 (2x16)
Video Card(s) Palit GeForce RTX 4070 JetStream 12GB | CPU-based Intel Iris XE + RTX 3070 8GB 150W
Storage 4TB SP UD90 NVME, 960GB SATA SSD, 2TB HDD | 1TB Samsung OEM NVME SSD + 4TB Crucial P3 Plus NVME SSD
Display(s) Acer 28" 4K VG280K x2 | 16" 2560x1600 built-in
Case Corsair 600C - Stock Fans on Low | Stock Metal/Plastic
Audio Device(s) Aune T1 mk1 > AKG K553 Pro + JVC HA-RX 700 (Equalizer APO + PeaceUI) | Bluetooth Earbuds (BX29)
Power Supply EVGA 750G2 Modular + APC Back-UPS Pro 1500 | 300W OEM (heavy use) or Lenovo Legion C135W GAN (light)
Mouse Logitech G502 | Logitech M330
Keyboard HyperX Alloy Core RGB | Built in Keyboard (Lenovo laptop KB FTW)
Software Windows 11 Pro x64 | Windows 11 Home x64
Good points. Vista I think is a better OS than xp, but to the average Joe there isn't much reason to upgrade, aside from MCE and DX10 if gaming. Snazzier and more powerful interface isn't enough reason to pay to upgrade. But it's gotten to the point that people who are buying completely new machines don't even want vista b/c it's gotten so much bad press. And that should be quelled b/c for home use it IS better, especially w/ a new machines hardware. Upgrading though, maybe not so much.

Yep, I agree with ya man.

If you have an old rig with XP on it, might as well leave it...if you have access to try Vista, then you should do just that, TRY IT. I wish more people could or would try Vista on their PC before spending money on it, just like XP, Linux, Mac, or whatever else, Vista isn't for everyone, nor will it ever be, Windows 7 will be the same way, it'll be improved for some stuff, may even have some revolutionary stuff, but it won't be for everyone.

I find Vista better for what I do, but I could do almost everything I do on XP 32/64 except for DX10 gaming which has slightly grown on me now that there's at least a small library of games and demos out there that utilize at least a portion of DX10. Vista x64 has impressed me greatly in how quick and stable it is, and trust me I've had plenty of good and bad in Vista, XP, and earlier. It's just part of the cycle I suppose.
 

Mussels

Freshwater Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Oct 6, 2004
Messages
58,413 (8.21/day)
Location
Oystralia
System Name Rainbow Sparkles (Power efficient, <350W gaming load)
Processor Ryzen R7 5800x3D (Undervolted, 4.45GHz all core)
Motherboard Asus x570-F (BIOS Modded)
Cooling Alphacool Apex UV - Alphacool Eisblock XPX Aurora + EK Quantum ARGB 3090 w/ active backplate
Memory 2x32GB DDR4 3600 Corsair Vengeance RGB @3866 C18-22-22-22-42 TRFC704 (1.4V Hynix MJR - SoC 1.15V)
Video Card(s) Galax RTX 3090 SG 24GB: Underclocked to 1700Mhz 0.750v (375W down to 250W))
Storage 2TB WD SN850 NVME + 1TB Sasmsung 970 Pro NVME + 1TB Intel 6000P NVME USB 3.2
Display(s) Phillips 32 32M1N5800A (4k144), LG 32" (4K60) | Gigabyte G32QC (2k165) | Phillips 328m6fjrmb (2K144)
Case Fractal Design R6
Audio Device(s) Logitech G560 | Corsair Void pro RGB |Blue Yeti mic
Power Supply Fractal Ion+ 2 860W (Platinum) (This thing is God-tier. Silent and TINY)
Mouse Logitech G Pro wireless + Steelseries Prisma XL
Keyboard Razer Huntsman TE ( Sexy white keycaps)
VR HMD Oculus Rift S + Quest 2
Software Windows 11 pro x64 (Yes, it's genuinely a good OS) OpenRGB - ditch the branded bloatware!
Benchmark Scores Nyooom.
yes i wont suggest EVERYONE to go to it. everyone with a NEW system (as in buying a new rig or getting a major upgrade) should consider it, but the people with working rigs shouldnt really bother.
 

Mussels

Freshwater Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Oct 6, 2004
Messages
58,413 (8.21/day)
Location
Oystralia
System Name Rainbow Sparkles (Power efficient, <350W gaming load)
Processor Ryzen R7 5800x3D (Undervolted, 4.45GHz all core)
Motherboard Asus x570-F (BIOS Modded)
Cooling Alphacool Apex UV - Alphacool Eisblock XPX Aurora + EK Quantum ARGB 3090 w/ active backplate
Memory 2x32GB DDR4 3600 Corsair Vengeance RGB @3866 C18-22-22-22-42 TRFC704 (1.4V Hynix MJR - SoC 1.15V)
Video Card(s) Galax RTX 3090 SG 24GB: Underclocked to 1700Mhz 0.750v (375W down to 250W))
Storage 2TB WD SN850 NVME + 1TB Sasmsung 970 Pro NVME + 1TB Intel 6000P NVME USB 3.2
Display(s) Phillips 32 32M1N5800A (4k144), LG 32" (4K60) | Gigabyte G32QC (2k165) | Phillips 328m6fjrmb (2K144)
Case Fractal Design R6
Audio Device(s) Logitech G560 | Corsair Void pro RGB |Blue Yeti mic
Power Supply Fractal Ion+ 2 860W (Platinum) (This thing is God-tier. Silent and TINY)
Mouse Logitech G Pro wireless + Steelseries Prisma XL
Keyboard Razer Huntsman TE ( Sexy white keycaps)
VR HMD Oculus Rift S + Quest 2
Software Windows 11 pro x64 (Yes, it's genuinely a good OS) OpenRGB - ditch the branded bloatware!
Benchmark Scores Nyooom.
its true that vists uses different amounts of ram. it tends to use 33% of your ram (40% on 1GB at most) and uses the rest for superfetch.
 

HAL7000

New Member
Joined
Jul 28, 2007
Messages
263 (0.04/day)
Location
Nashville TN
Processor AMD Athlon 64 X2 6000+ Windsor 3.0GHz
Motherboard ECS KA3 MVP
Cooling stock
Memory Mushkin eXtreme Performance 2GB (2 x 1GB)
Video Card(s) X1900GT
Storage SAMSUNG SpinPoint P Series SP2004C 200GB
Display(s) Acer AL2051W 20" 8ms DVI Widescreen LCD Monitor
Case IN WIN IW-F430.RL Red
Audio Device(s) Creative Audigy gamers edition
Power Supply PC Power & Cooling Silencer 750 Quad - Copper
Software XP Pro w/SP3
Evolution of a OS is at times painful for everyone. What do you think happens with all the hardware that is out of date in a matter of months in some cases. It goes into making cheap systems. Something that OEM's need to do to make a profit and not suffer a loss, to stay in business. So XP still lives in these machines because Vista is a resource hog. Vista and XP have there place. MS understood this and gave OEM's an extension using XP for those systems. What MS should have done is figure out a OS that compliments both poles...a unified OS that can be loaded into any computer. I still run XP and read and listen to users that use Vista, I am not impressed either way but logically stay with XP for now because it suits my needs. I am also pissed that MS won't write a compatible DX 10 for XP. But as I said evolution of a OS is painful for everyone. Lets hope that MS simplifies the next time around.
 

Ketxxx

Heedless Psychic
Joined
Mar 4, 2006
Messages
11,521 (1.75/day)
Location
Kingdom of gods
System Name Ravens Talon
Processor AMD R7 3700X @ 4.4GHz 1.3v
Motherboard MSI X570 Tomahawk
Cooling Modded 240mm Coolermaster Liquidmaster
Memory 2x16GB Klevv BoltX 3600MHz & custom timings
Video Card(s) Powercolor 6800XT Red Devil
Storage 250GB Asgard SSD, 1TB Integral SSD, 2TB Seagate Barracuda
Display(s) 27" BenQ Mobiuz
Case NZXT Phantom 530
Audio Device(s) Asus Xonar DX 7.1 PCI-E
Power Supply 1000w Supernova
Software Windows 10 x64
Benchmark Scores Fast. I don't need epeen.
Are those XP users just the general public though? I've used Vista, with SP1 no less, and I still think it sucks. Vista looks "pretty", beyond that, what does it really offer XP cant already do? Nothing.
 

Swansen

New Member
Joined
Nov 18, 2007
Messages
182 (0.03/day)
i have not used a non Aero machine, so i don't know how "windows Vista capable" machine would handle. I have used a core 2 machines with onboard video and 1gb of memory and Vista with Aero isn't so quick with lower end machines, so i'm skeptical how Vista Basic would even do. That said, there in lies the one of the issues, we shouldn't have to upgrade our hardware just to run an OS, and that is how every company feels currently, especially the jump in upgrade, its not a slight one. Also, Microsoft bug team are its end users. I've used free OS's with less bugs/problems at launch. Its just crazy that the money Microsoft makes and then they release their new OS and it has a a lot of problems?? why?? Yeah, they are all pretty much fixed now, but Vista was also suppose to be so much more than it is. Its more secure than XP, yeah, but now supremely, which it was suppose to be. In this situation i feel Microsoft is just learning a little lesson, they can't just push whatever they want onto the people.
 
Joined
Dec 28, 2006
Messages
4,378 (0.69/day)
Location
Hurst, Texas
System Name The86
Processor Ryzen 5 3600
Motherboard ASROCKS B450 Steel Legend
Cooling AMD Stealth
Memory 2x8gb DDR4 3200 Corsair
Video Card(s) EVGA RTX 3060 Ti
Storage WD Black 512gb, WD Blue 1TB
Display(s) AOC 24in
Case Raidmax Alpha Prime
Power Supply 700W Thermaltake Smart
Mouse Logitech Mx510
Keyboard Razer BlackWidow 2012
Software Windows 10 Professional
No it doesn't. If I had to conclude that it does, at the same I'd have to conclude that for example, Nvidia's GT200 are worth a lot over Ati's HD4000 series too, which I'm not inclined to believe. No, seriously, Vista does not offer anything worth $20 (pff even $5) over XP (at least up until now), except "futureproofing". :roll:

Don't worry, I already have Vista on my laptop, so I will continue testing it over the time, and I'll upgrade my main system when it is worth it. Unless windows 7 is close and it really is an upgrade...

I have to admit, anyway, that I wasn't very informed of the prices of the OS's now. Vista has come down a lot. But I can tell you something, Win XP here in Spain (I can't talk about the rest of the world) is a lot more expensive (that means €25-50) than 6 months ago, which IMHO is intriguing...

Hell it's more expensive than when I bought it back in 2003!!!!

are you aware of whats been done under the surface?

The Kernal mode access was restricted which restricts what a virus can do and helps system stabilty.

The new network protocols provide increased protection, granted these are also in SP3.

The WDDM driver model talks to directX and all drivers have to uniformly conform to the standard to be used, meaning some of those devices that caused problems with XP because there was lee way in the WDM program model are not present in WDDM because of the stictness of the driver protocols and drivers are less likly to cause system failures

there are some of the features in Vista you don't see but are there and actully help to make the system more stable
 
Joined
Dec 28, 2006
Messages
4,378 (0.69/day)
Location
Hurst, Texas
System Name The86
Processor Ryzen 5 3600
Motherboard ASROCKS B450 Steel Legend
Cooling AMD Stealth
Memory 2x8gb DDR4 3200 Corsair
Video Card(s) EVGA RTX 3060 Ti
Storage WD Black 512gb, WD Blue 1TB
Display(s) AOC 24in
Case Raidmax Alpha Prime
Power Supply 700W Thermaltake Smart
Mouse Logitech Mx510
Keyboard Razer BlackWidow 2012
Software Windows 10 Professional
there's more than the cost of the disk that factors into it being double I can run windows xp on a 10 year old rig without issue, I can't with vista, theres no getting around the fact that vista needs a better rig to run nice vs windows xp. so when joe blow with his pentium 3 decides between the two, what do you think he's going to pick? it's the same with the athlon xp users pentium 4 users and even early athlon 64 users. they will simply run faster on xp. no that's not opinion, that's fact.

so bein that 90% of people have those cpu's or older in their rigs, you can see why those same 90% didn't think vista was so bad when used on decent hardware. which is exactly the point, joe blow can't afford or doesn't care enough to upgrade his rig to run vista.

vista isn't the worst os put out, (it's not the best either) but it requires more from hardware which in the end always takes a while to get adopted.

yea you can SP0 and SP1 i have XP SP2 on a P3 800 with 256mb of ram and its sluggish this was the normal machine 8 years ago, sure XP will work on any 233mhz Pentium1 with 128mb of ram but does that mean it preforms right if thats your argument though, then Vista can be run on any 8yr old computer. Vista will install and operate on a P3 800, 512mb of ram and a TNT2 i know i tried vista on my P3. You dont get most of the eye candy and its slow but its like running XP on a 10yr old PII 400 computer
 
Joined
Dec 28, 2006
Messages
4,378 (0.69/day)
Location
Hurst, Texas
System Name The86
Processor Ryzen 5 3600
Motherboard ASROCKS B450 Steel Legend
Cooling AMD Stealth
Memory 2x8gb DDR4 3200 Corsair
Video Card(s) EVGA RTX 3060 Ti
Storage WD Black 512gb, WD Blue 1TB
Display(s) AOC 24in
Case Raidmax Alpha Prime
Power Supply 700W Thermaltake Smart
Mouse Logitech Mx510
Keyboard Razer BlackWidow 2012
Software Windows 10 Professional
I like this civil discussion without anyone going off and being as asshat. We are here to discuss, not to trash.

The recommended reqs of Vista is a 1Ghz processor and 512MB of RAM.
This is interesting as the Pentium 3 ranged from about 600Mhz to 1.4 Ghz.
We all know that a system with a P3 is not going to run Vista worth a crap.

I think that MS should have been a little more specific in their specs about Vista, and perhaps should have been a little tighter on the specs (like minimum P4?).

Just some casual observations.

well no actully i got it up on a P3 800 and after tweaking its decently fast actully, set theme to classic, disable visual effects, disable indexing. This free's up alot actully.
 

DarkMatter

New Member
Joined
Oct 5, 2007
Messages
1,714 (0.28/day)
Processor Intel C2Q Q6600 @ Stock (for now)
Motherboard Asus P5Q-E
Cooling Proc: Scythe Mine, Graphics: Zalman VF900 Cu
Memory 4 GB (2x2GB) DDR2 Corsair Dominator 1066Mhz 5-5-5-15
Video Card(s) GigaByte 8800GT Stock Clocks: 700Mhz Core, 1700 Shader, 1940 Memory
Storage 74 GB WD Raptor 10000rpm, 2x250 GB Seagate Raid 0
Display(s) HP p1130, 21" Trinitron
Case Antec p180
Audio Device(s) Creative X-Fi PLatinum
Power Supply 700W FSP Group 85% Efficiency
Software Windows XP
are you aware of whats been done under the surface?

The Kernal mode access was restricted which restricts what a virus can do and helps system stabilty.

The new network protocols provide increased protection, granted these are also in SP3.

The WDDM driver model talks to directX and all drivers have to uniformly conform to the standard to be used, meaning some of those devices that caused problems with XP because there was lee way in the WDM program model are not present in WDDM because of the stictness of the driver protocols and drivers are less likly to cause system failures

there are some of the features in Vista you don't see but are there and actully help to make the system more stable

I knew about those things, not deeply, but I heard of them. In theory they make it more stable, but in practice, that's another thing. Everyone has his own experience with Vista I suppose, and mine is not being very good on my laptop as of now. Maybe it's just because is a laptop (it's my first one), but I have XP SP3 on it too and does a far better job. Under Vista I had many program crashes, granted the consecuencies are smaller and no BSODs, but there's still the fact that they crash. Maybe the programs are a bit old and newer versions work without a flaw, but I shouldn't have to upgrade them because of Vista.

Which leads me to the next issue. I must admit it could be all dogma (as in btarunr's post), but I have seen some people reporting that some of their devices stopped working (properly) under Vista. I don't know if this is because of WDDM, but my router doesn't work well, it doesn't find automatically my wifi router under Vista. Again, I shouldn't (me as an Average Joe) have to upgrade to have a working device.

Those are problems, even if you don't want to see them, because they won't affect you. Vista has many problems with older hardware/software (and probably unknown brands at all) and even if this doesn't make a difference for you or enthusiasts in general, it is a big problem for many people. Even though those programs that failed to me are not very important and I could pass without them, but that's not the point. Vista is only good if you have everything new, otherwise you can encounter many problems. SP1 has fixed a lot of them, but there are a lot left yet.

But those issues aside, I know Vista has a lot of things under the hood and I never questioned if they were better. I have always defended Crysis and it's exactly in the same circunstances. But I do question them NOW. For the average PC Vista is not good. It can run on 2GB but not as well as XP, not when you start opening programs, I can assure you, and same goes for the CPU and everything. Should anyone buying an OEM PC get Vista? Sure, I never said otherwise, I said I myself, back when I bought my laptop (before SP1) I'd have taken XP if I could and if they returned the price difference. If you can have both XP or Vista for the same price, the election is clear. But I reafirm myself that anyone doing an upgrade, having to pay the full price for Vista, is not worth it, and many many people that only want the PC for mailing and web browsing paying anything more doesn't make sense either. Also many small bussinesses, organissms, etc... And forget about Linux, those people don't know and don't want to deal with it, then XP being the next cheaper option is the best for them. That's more than half the users and that's why Vista didn't sell as much, everything else is excuses.
 

DrPepper

The Doctor is in the house
Joined
Jan 16, 2008
Messages
7,482 (1.26/day)
Location
Scotland (It rains alot)
System Name Rusky
Processor Intel Core i7 D0 3.8Ghz
Motherboard Asus P6T
Cooling Thermaltake Dark Knight
Memory 12GB Patriot Viper's 1866mhz 9-9-9-24
Video Card(s) GTX470 1280MB
Storage OCZ Summit 60GB + Samsung 1TB + Samsung 2TB
Display(s) Sharp Aquos L32X20E 1920 x 1080
Case Silverstone Raven RV01
Power Supply Corsair 650 Watt
Software Windows 7 x64
Benchmark Scores 3DMark06 - 18064 http://img.techpowerup.org/090720/Capture002.jpg
Are those XP users just the general public though? I've used Vista, with SP1 no less, and I still think it sucks. Vista looks "pretty", beyond that, what does it really offer XP cant already do? Nothing.

There's alot of things going on in the background that you don't notice, like it automatically defragments when idle and it introduces new cryptography standards as well. Also it builds on voice recognition and touch screen although they only touched on it. There's probably tons of things but I can't remember it all.
 

eidairaman1

The Exiled Airman
Joined
Jul 2, 2007
Messages
40,435 (6.61/day)
Location
Republic of Texas (True Patriot)
System Name PCGOD
Processor AMD FX 8350@ 5.0GHz
Motherboard Asus TUF 990FX Sabertooth R2 2901 Bios
Cooling Scythe Ashura, 2×BitFenix 230mm Spectre Pro LED (Blue,Green), 2x BitFenix 140mm Spectre Pro LED
Memory 16 GB Gskill Ripjaws X 2133 (2400 OC, 10-10-12-20-20, 1T, 1.65V)
Video Card(s) AMD Radeon 290 Sapphire Vapor-X
Storage Samsung 840 Pro 256GB, WD Velociraptor 1TB
Display(s) NEC Multisync LCD 1700V (Display Port Adapter)
Case AeroCool Xpredator Evil Blue Edition
Audio Device(s) Creative Labs Sound Blaster ZxR
Power Supply Seasonic 1250 XM2 Series (XP3)
Mouse Roccat Kone XTD
Keyboard Roccat Ryos MK Pro
Software Windows 7 Pro 64
so what about ReactOS?
 
Joined
Aug 22, 2007
Messages
3,450 (0.57/day)
Location
CA, US
System Name :)
Processor Intel 13700k
Motherboard Gigabyte z790 UD AC
Cooling Noctua NH-D15
Memory 64GB GSKILL DDR5
Video Card(s) Gigabyte RTX 4090 Gaming OC
Storage 960GB Optane 905P U.2 SSD + 4TB PCIe4 U.2 SSD
Display(s) Alienware AW3423DW 175Hz QD-OLED + Nixeus 27" IPS 1440p 144Hz
Case Fractal Design Torrent
Audio Device(s) MOTU M4 - JBL 305P MKII w/2x JL Audio 10 Sealed --- X-Fi Titanium HD - Presonus Eris E5 - JBL 4412
Power Supply Silverstone 1000W
Mouse Roccat Kain 122 AIMO
Keyboard KBD67 Lite / Mammoth75
VR HMD Reverb G2 V2
Software Win 11 Pro
I hooked up a 6 year old printer to my vista machine and it worked.
Vista already had the drivers for the printer.
Tons of people don't know about compatibility mode for programs either...
 

eidairaman1

The Exiled Airman
Joined
Jul 2, 2007
Messages
40,435 (6.61/day)
Location
Republic of Texas (True Patriot)
System Name PCGOD
Processor AMD FX 8350@ 5.0GHz
Motherboard Asus TUF 990FX Sabertooth R2 2901 Bios
Cooling Scythe Ashura, 2×BitFenix 230mm Spectre Pro LED (Blue,Green), 2x BitFenix 140mm Spectre Pro LED
Memory 16 GB Gskill Ripjaws X 2133 (2400 OC, 10-10-12-20-20, 1T, 1.65V)
Video Card(s) AMD Radeon 290 Sapphire Vapor-X
Storage Samsung 840 Pro 256GB, WD Velociraptor 1TB
Display(s) NEC Multisync LCD 1700V (Display Port Adapter)
Case AeroCool Xpredator Evil Blue Edition
Audio Device(s) Creative Labs Sound Blaster ZxR
Power Supply Seasonic 1250 XM2 Series (XP3)
Mouse Roccat Kone XTD
Keyboard Roccat Ryos MK Pro
Software Windows 7 Pro 64
the only thing i dont like is the fact that MS went to the idea of making every driver available on the HD, im sorry but i dont need all those drivers on my system wasting space, id rather have them ask to insert the Windows CD, that or allow option to place all drivers from the CD onto the HD.
 

Kursah

Super Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Oct 15, 2006
Messages
14,666 (2.30/day)
Location
Missoula, MT, USA
System Name Kursah's Gaming Rig 2018 (2022 Upgrade) - Ryzen+ Edition | Gaming Laptop (Lenovo Legion 5i Pro 2022)
Processor R7 5800X @ Stock | i7 12700H @ Stock
Motherboard Asus ROG Strix X370-F Gaming BIOS 6203| Legion 5i Pro NM-E231
Cooling Noctua NH-U14S Push-Pull + NT-H1 | Stock Cooling
Memory TEAMGROUP T-Force Vulcan Z 32GB (2x16) DDR4 4000 @ 3600 18-20-20-42 1.35v | 32GB DDR5 4800 (2x16)
Video Card(s) Palit GeForce RTX 4070 JetStream 12GB | CPU-based Intel Iris XE + RTX 3070 8GB 150W
Storage 4TB SP UD90 NVME, 960GB SATA SSD, 2TB HDD | 1TB Samsung OEM NVME SSD + 4TB Crucial P3 Plus NVME SSD
Display(s) Acer 28" 4K VG280K x2 | 16" 2560x1600 built-in
Case Corsair 600C - Stock Fans on Low | Stock Metal/Plastic
Audio Device(s) Aune T1 mk1 > AKG K553 Pro + JVC HA-RX 700 (Equalizer APO + PeaceUI) | Bluetooth Earbuds (BX29)
Power Supply EVGA 750G2 Modular + APC Back-UPS Pro 1500 | 300W OEM (heavy use) or Lenovo Legion C135W GAN (light)
Mouse Logitech G502 | Logitech M330
Keyboard HyperX Alloy Core RGB | Built in Keyboard (Lenovo laptop KB FTW)
Software Windows 11 Pro x64 | Windows 11 Home x64
the only thing i dont like is the fact that MS went to the idea of making every driver available on the HD, im sorry but i dont need all those drivers on my system wasting space, id rather have them ask to insert the Windows CD, that or allow option to place all drivers from the CD onto the HD.

I do agree there, but I see why they did it that way...people just expect to hook things up and at least have a base driver if not a correct driver (albiet maybe not the most up to date, but at least it's signed right? :D )...I think during installation they should give that as an option, sure on pre-built stuff put the whole shooting match on the HDD...but for system builders, they should give you options before install, basic drivers to ensure stability and usability to get newer drivers after install would be kinda nice to have and it would save on HDD space, but with massive HDD's getting cheaper every day now it seems, this really shouldn't be that huge of an issue in all reality.

:toast:
 

eidairaman1

The Exiled Airman
Joined
Jul 2, 2007
Messages
40,435 (6.61/day)
Location
Republic of Texas (True Patriot)
System Name PCGOD
Processor AMD FX 8350@ 5.0GHz
Motherboard Asus TUF 990FX Sabertooth R2 2901 Bios
Cooling Scythe Ashura, 2×BitFenix 230mm Spectre Pro LED (Blue,Green), 2x BitFenix 140mm Spectre Pro LED
Memory 16 GB Gskill Ripjaws X 2133 (2400 OC, 10-10-12-20-20, 1T, 1.65V)
Video Card(s) AMD Radeon 290 Sapphire Vapor-X
Storage Samsung 840 Pro 256GB, WD Velociraptor 1TB
Display(s) NEC Multisync LCD 1700V (Display Port Adapter)
Case AeroCool Xpredator Evil Blue Edition
Audio Device(s) Creative Labs Sound Blaster ZxR
Power Supply Seasonic 1250 XM2 Series (XP3)
Mouse Roccat Kone XTD
Keyboard Roccat Ryos MK Pro
Software Windows 7 Pro 64
I do agree there, but I see why they did it that way...people just expect to hook things up and at least have a base driver if not a correct driver (albiet maybe not the most up to date, but at least it's signed right? :D )...I think during installation they should give that as an option, sure on pre-built stuff put the whole shooting match on the HDD...but for system builders, they should give you options before install, basic drivers to ensure stability and usability to get newer drivers after install would be kinda nice to have and it would save on HDD space, but with massive HDD's getting cheaper every day now it seems, this really shouldn't be that huge of an issue in all reality.

:toast:

despite the drives getting bigger you still lose that space for more Movies/Games/Pictures/Music.
 

Kursah

Super Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Oct 15, 2006
Messages
14,666 (2.30/day)
Location
Missoula, MT, USA
System Name Kursah's Gaming Rig 2018 (2022 Upgrade) - Ryzen+ Edition | Gaming Laptop (Lenovo Legion 5i Pro 2022)
Processor R7 5800X @ Stock | i7 12700H @ Stock
Motherboard Asus ROG Strix X370-F Gaming BIOS 6203| Legion 5i Pro NM-E231
Cooling Noctua NH-U14S Push-Pull + NT-H1 | Stock Cooling
Memory TEAMGROUP T-Force Vulcan Z 32GB (2x16) DDR4 4000 @ 3600 18-20-20-42 1.35v | 32GB DDR5 4800 (2x16)
Video Card(s) Palit GeForce RTX 4070 JetStream 12GB | CPU-based Intel Iris XE + RTX 3070 8GB 150W
Storage 4TB SP UD90 NVME, 960GB SATA SSD, 2TB HDD | 1TB Samsung OEM NVME SSD + 4TB Crucial P3 Plus NVME SSD
Display(s) Acer 28" 4K VG280K x2 | 16" 2560x1600 built-in
Case Corsair 600C - Stock Fans on Low | Stock Metal/Plastic
Audio Device(s) Aune T1 mk1 > AKG K553 Pro + JVC HA-RX 700 (Equalizer APO + PeaceUI) | Bluetooth Earbuds (BX29)
Power Supply EVGA 750G2 Modular + APC Back-UPS Pro 1500 | 300W OEM (heavy use) or Lenovo Legion C135W GAN (light)
Mouse Logitech G502 | Logitech M330
Keyboard HyperX Alloy Core RGB | Built in Keyboard (Lenovo laptop KB FTW)
Software Windows 11 Pro x64 | Windows 11 Home x64
I totally agree, which is why I said they should allow the option before hitting Install. Would be very cool of MS to allow this option to system builders and those capable of installing an OS and know what they want and don't. :D

But, hell I have a single 640GB drive, 30GB is an OS partion, which still has almost 7GB free after page-file, some programs and Vista...then I have the rest of my drives, which has a backup of my G/F's stuff, my stuff and I still have about 200GB free last I checked! I don't forsee MS OS's getting any smaller, they never have in the past...so it's something we'll have to adjust to, it's part of the whole making things work for people that don't know what they're doing that stings the rest of us a tad...I'm sure you could use vLite like others have and remove the stuff like drivers you don't want. I've contemplated it, but since my OS partition isn't getting any fuller, and the OS runs so well I don't mind.

:toast:
 

eidairaman1

The Exiled Airman
Joined
Jul 2, 2007
Messages
40,435 (6.61/day)
Location
Republic of Texas (True Patriot)
System Name PCGOD
Processor AMD FX 8350@ 5.0GHz
Motherboard Asus TUF 990FX Sabertooth R2 2901 Bios
Cooling Scythe Ashura, 2×BitFenix 230mm Spectre Pro LED (Blue,Green), 2x BitFenix 140mm Spectre Pro LED
Memory 16 GB Gskill Ripjaws X 2133 (2400 OC, 10-10-12-20-20, 1T, 1.65V)
Video Card(s) AMD Radeon 290 Sapphire Vapor-X
Storage Samsung 840 Pro 256GB, WD Velociraptor 1TB
Display(s) NEC Multisync LCD 1700V (Display Port Adapter)
Case AeroCool Xpredator Evil Blue Edition
Audio Device(s) Creative Labs Sound Blaster ZxR
Power Supply Seasonic 1250 XM2 Series (XP3)
Mouse Roccat Kone XTD
Keyboard Roccat Ryos MK Pro
Software Windows 7 Pro 64
I totally agree, which is why I said they should allow the option before hitting Install. Would be very cool of MS to allow this option to system builders and those capable of installing an OS and know what they want and don't. :D

But, hell I have a single 640GB drive, 30GB is an OS partion, which still has almost 7GB free after page-file, some programs and Vista...then I have the rest of my drives, which has a backup of my G/F's stuff, my stuff and I still have about 200GB free last I checked! I don't forsee MS OS's getting any smaller, they never have in the past...so it's something we'll have to adjust to, it's part of the whole making things work for people that don't know what they're doing that stings the rest of us a tad...I'm sure you could use vLite like others have and remove the stuff like drivers you don't want. I've contemplated it, but since my OS partition isn't getting any fuller, and the OS runs so well I don't mind.

:toast:

Yup until one of the better Builds of Linux goes Commercial, or ReactOS/
 
Joined
Dec 28, 2006
Messages
4,378 (0.69/day)
Location
Hurst, Texas
System Name The86
Processor Ryzen 5 3600
Motherboard ASROCKS B450 Steel Legend
Cooling AMD Stealth
Memory 2x8gb DDR4 3200 Corsair
Video Card(s) EVGA RTX 3060 Ti
Storage WD Black 512gb, WD Blue 1TB
Display(s) AOC 24in
Case Raidmax Alpha Prime
Power Supply 700W Thermaltake Smart
Mouse Logitech Mx510
Keyboard Razer BlackWidow 2012
Software Windows 10 Professional
I totally agree, which is why I said they should allow the option before hitting Install. Would be very cool of MS to allow this option to system builders and those capable of installing an OS and know what they want and don't. :D

But, hell I have a single 640GB drive, 30GB is an OS partion, which still has almost 7GB free after page-file, some programs and Vista...then I have the rest of my drives, which has a backup of my G/F's stuff, my stuff and I still have about 200GB free last I checked! I don't forsee MS OS's getting any smaller, they never have in the past...so it's something we'll have to adjust to, it's part of the whole making things work for people that don't know what they're doing that stings the rest of us a tad...I'm sure you could use vLite like others have and remove the stuff like drivers you don't want. I've contemplated it, but since my OS partition isn't getting any fuller, and the OS runs so well I don't mind.

:toast:

you can always delete the drivers.cab file, i usally do
 
Top