1000R Curved non-ultrawide monitors -- Do you like them?

[DrCR]

My trusty, decade old VA 1200p monitor is starting to fritz out. Has been for a while, and after watching for a while I found a panel I like e.g. VRR VA and non-rubbish response times at lower Hz.

Samsung Odyssey G7 27" C27G75T Review - TFTCentral

The latest 240Hz VA gaming screen from Samsung. This 27" model features a 1440p resolution, adaptive-sync, HDR600 and 1000R curvature.

www.tftcentral.co.uk

But it's curved. And not just curved, but 1000R. For a 1440p panel. I'd be reluctant to go for curved outside of the ultrawide realm, and 1000R is tmk as curved as you can get. I'm interested in some feedback before resigning to continued lurk status.

 

[mtcn77]

You can purchase it.
This 240Hz Va is cheaper than 165Hz Ips'es and it has a dynamic contrast ratio of 20000:1 according to hardware.info.
There was one other thing I was going to say, but I'll remember it sometime.
You can sit 58cm away from it. VA's come with a particular gamma shift occurring at +10°. If you add the curve, this is the first VA screen without obvious saturation loss near the edges of the panel.

Some alternative options to go along. While they aren't the whole roster, 30 2K VA displays is actually a pretty huge test range.
Hardware.info

When comparing by Rtings.com testing, one thing to go by is text clarity. This display gets '9.5' in motion, '8.0' in text clarity(2nd spot) and '9.3' in black frame insertion strobing. Even among non-va types, it is still the leader in motion and bfi.

 

[Sybaris_Caesar]

It's subjective. Some people on reddit returned their G7 after using it made their eyes watching other day-to-day things warped or sth. Ultimately as mtcn77 said, curvature on 16:9 VA is a fix to a ptoblem, not a feature like Samsung claims.

If you live in a country with good consumer protection, use it for sometime and then return it if you don't like it.

Other than that, it has class-leading performance atm, even compared to IPS which are usually faster than VA.

 

[Bill_Bright]

It's subjective.

^^^THIS!^^^

Why are you hesitant about it being curved? If your concerns about it being curved have anything to do with quality or reliability, you can stop worrying about that. There is nothing to suggest curved screens are inferior or less reliable.

But if you are hesitant because you don't think you will like it, or you will grow tired of it, I think that is a significant concern. I personally have experienced curved monitors longer than a few minutes at a time. But I have spoken to quite a few curved monitor (and TV) users and almost all now (after the newness and novelty wore off) have misgivings. And the bigger the display, the greater the misgivings.

And it all has to do with the fact with a curved display, there is only one ideal position, the "sweet spot" to put your head while viewing. And you have to "triangulate" your sitting position to find it.

As seen by that image, there is only one spot where the viewer sits equal distance from the left, center, and right edge of the screen and more importantly, only one spot where the viewing angle for the left and right is the same. If you move your head to the left or right, you change the viewing angles, potentially washing out the image on one side, then the other. And you change the distance between your head and the screen surface. If you move your chair closer or farther away, you change the viewing angles.

For some viewers, no big deal at all. For other viewers, they didn't like the effect and they went back to multimonitor setups. It seems our brains have evolved and adapted to flat screens just fine.

And note for curved TV buyers I spoke to, almost all said, "never again". And again the problem is there is only one "sweet spot" - and that means their recliner must sit directly in front and center of the screen surface and at an specific distance from the screen - for the next 5+ years. That may be fine for a single person - but not if there are other family members in the house, or there is a better half that occasionally like to rearrange the furniture.

Here is a good Consumer Reports article on the subject. While the effects described are for big screen TVs, the effects are the same with a smaller computer monitor because we sit proportionately closer to our computer screens.

I am not judging curved monitors, one way or the other. I am just pointing out what some have said to me.

 

[mtcn77]

Ultimately as mtcn77 said, curvature on 16:9 VA is a fix to a ptoblem, not a feature like Samsung claims.

Thanks, although I still consider it a feature. When you sit in the same position, your distance is the same with the display anywhere on the screen. The curvature starts to wrap aound your peripheral vision gaining on your surrounding field of vision by 3%, which isn't a lot, on the 27"-32"(forgot which one I originally calculated for) and 13% for the 49" dual size screen. As you can see there is a big surround gain on the larger model.

And you change the distance between your head and the screen surface. If you move your chair closer or farther away, you change the viewing angles.

I want to ask something - these measurements affect your view when your field drops below 80°. If you draw an imaginary triangle with the curved panel edges meeting in the middle, I measure the base of the triangle can be as close as 58cm without breaking this screen uniformity of gamma saturation; however this is when the -10°C angle is concave as we are sitting inside the perpendicular straight edges. We could also give +10° to move a little further back. I haven't considered this part since these monitors aren't color restricted in far view.
I used the left to right gamma shift angle measured by the 'rtings' website. I suppose they limit gamma shift to just 3° from baseline which wouldn't be noticable.

 

[Bill_Bright]

I want to ask something

You didn't ask anything.

Regardless,

When you sit in the same position, your distance is the same with the display anywhere on the screen.

And that's my point. Do you sit in the same position, hour after hour? I don't. And I'm not a gamer.

When folks are playing games, I see them leaning left and leaning right, twisting this way and twisting that way, stretching up and ducking down as their "character" is running in and out of buildings, up and down hills, dodging projectiles being thrown at them, or when hard-cornering around mountain curves.

 

[phanbuey]

I have the 1000R samsung g27 and I really love it.

At first it was weird but as I've gotten used to it and now I really hope they don't stop making these -- it's a real pleasure to work and game on it. Gaming is insane on this.

 

[mtcn77]

You didn't ask anything.

In that case, "Does it matter if you sit in the dead center?", is what I wanted to cite you on. If we move back 10°, leaving the perpendicular plane of the screen edge "convex", we can relax on our couch at 217cm distance. We are still assuming dead center monitor angle.

 

[Bill_Bright]

"Does it matter if you sit in the dead center?"

Of course it does - that is if you want the entire surface to look proper. That is, not just the center, but the left side and right side too.

Since you want to use "what if" hypotheticals - "if" you are sitting on your couch 7 feet (~217cm) away, and "if" you are 4 feet off-center to the left, the center and right side may look fine but your viewing angle of the left side may be so wide (because it is curved towards you), it is washed out.

There really is no point in debating this. Why?

It's subjective.

But the "facts" are when it comes to curved displays, they are best suited for one viewer who sits relatively still at one ideal distance (depending on screen size) from the center of the screen - as illustrated in the image seen in post #4 above. And as noted in that Consumer Reports article in that same post,

a curved screen introduces a subtle geometric distortion to the image when viewing from the sides or if the TV is placed too high up on the wall. So these curved TVs look best when viewed straight on, and at eye level."

The same applies to computer monitors.

But again, because it is subjective, any viewing angle distortion may or may not bother Joe but bother the heck out of Sam. It is a personal opinion. My goal is just to ensure the OP, DrCR, has all the information needed to make an "informed" decision for him.

 

[mtcn77]

Since you want to use "what if" hypotheticals - "if" you are sitting on your couch 7 feet (~217cm) away, and "if" you are 4 feet off-center to the left, the center and right side may look fine but your viewing angle of the left side may be so wide (because it is curved towards you), it is washed out.

There really is no point in debating this. Why?

Well, because it gathers knowledge surrounding the field. Such as this: the display has a 4.5cm internal depth from the sides towards the center. This 10° convex angle sitting position does not do much towards elevating lateral viewing area since the center field is only 60 centimeters and that does not increase since they don't diverge from the monitor, it still converges a little behind - the triangle is the largest at its base which is just 60cm wide at the display surface. We have just 40cm lateral field at 1 meter distance, so it is a funny monitor outside of esports.
PS: also, it might be 246cm. I cannot verify all that well.

When folks are playing games, I see them leaning left and leaning right, twisting this way and twisting that way, stretching up and ducking down as their "character" is running in and out of buildings, up and down hills, dodging projectiles being thrown at them, or when hard-cornering around mountain curves.

Your ips might deliver you the necessary sight at 45°, but your eyes are not adapted to more than 5°-30° peripheral vision, you just move your eyes normally...

 

[Bill_Bright]

In the context of this thread, you really are talking gibberish.

4.5cm, 10° convex, 60cm center field, 40 cm lateral. Who cares? None of that information is useful here.

And you are not the OP. You don't know how far he can sit away from the surface of the monitor. You don't know the height of his desk or his chair. And you don't know what my eyes are adapted to or how I move my eyes, head or entire body.

 

[DrCR]

Thanks for the food for though.

I'm reluctant to go bigger than 27" for 1440p. If going bigger, I'd want to go 4K, but since I don't want to attempt to drive that resolution as of yet, I'm looking for something 27" 1440p. I'll save 4K for when µLED monitors are available in 5 years or however long it is that we have to wait.

Some alternative options to go along. While they aren't the whole roster, 30 2K VA displays is actually a pretty huge test range.
Hardware.info

But if you are hesitant because you don't think you will like it, or you will grow tired of it, I think that is a significant concern.

That's certainly the case for me. Curved TVs make zero sense for me. A curved monitor is something I'd be way less concerned about if it was exclusively used for gaming. But for non-gaming use, I strongly suspect I'd hate it, at least with respect to 1000R on a 27" non-ultrawide. @phanbuey's feedback is noted though. Re quality and reliability, that's not really a concern for me since I'm rather quick to purge from consideration monitors from companies who do not make that a priority e.g. I'll likely never even consider an Asus monitor.

 

[Deleted member 193596]

i had a 32" curved monitor for a week and to be honest...
it did absolutely nothing to "Immersion" or anything else. it was just not a flat panel. that's it.

 

[Bill_Bright]

I personally don't see why non-gaming tasks would be different if you liked it with gaming. I would think any "geometric distortion" issues would actually be less prevalent. When gaming, users tend to become more animated themselves. For non-gaming tasks, we tend to sit more still.

But of course, YMMV. However, I really don't get the sense that you are any closer to a decision.

 

[mtcn77]

Curved TVs make zero sense for me. A curved monitor is something I'd be way less concerned about if it was exclusively used for gaming. But for non-gaming use, I strongly suspect I'd hate it, at least with respect to 1000R on a 27" non-ultrawide.

They are great. What is offensive is this aggressive curve angle. Other displays, TV's for instance, come with much milder curves. If you do the calculation 1000R is not just 80% steeper than a 1800R display(17° vs. 9.5°) its self inclination at the edges towards the center is bulked on itself so much, you are still inside its frame when moving 10° to the side; however with a 1800R frame 10°>9.5° and your field of correct gamma saturation increases as you move back from the display - as any TV should. If you need to gain visible field behind sitting position, I think this explains why we have been limited to 1800R TV's until now.

I think it is also related to the pixel structure. SPVA displays aren't much wider than 10° visibility on average whereas AMVA3 ranges are up to 21°. Coupled with MVA type, even higher angles might be possible, though I wonder whether Samsung will like it.

For consideration, we could even have "815R" with an MVA type that would have the horizontal field at all ranges.

 

[DrCR]

I ended up getting the Samsung Odyssey G7 27" from B&H (sale).

Maybe due to the encouragement of the significant curvature, but I found I sit a lot closer to it than my 1200p flat panel.

I'm not wowed by the curve nor completely used to it as it's only been a few hours, but crucially I don't loathe it. Maybe it helps that I basically never focus on the center of the screen, due to having the habit of having windows to the sides. (When I drag this browser window to the center of the screen, I can see why people might give up on curvature. It looks like a badly adjusted CRT.) Due to jumping between windows to the right and left, I find it tolerable, but not particularly desirable. As I suspected though, I found it not undesirable during a gaming session a moment ago.

I suspect it will be like when I was regularly jumping between an an ergonomic keyboard and a MBP keyboard -- a bit different but same functionality and you get used to it.

 

[Mussels]

My curved phillips monitor is dying and the G7 is an expensive ($1200Au) option for me...

any thoughts or feedback on it, now that you own it? I've been considering it since it works with Gsync and modern Freesync, so it wont lock me out of a GPU upgrade later

 

[DrCR]

Oh it's glorious goodness. tftcentral's review speaks to that. If it wasn't curved, it would get a complete 100% from me. Since you're OK with curved, it should check every checkbox you could possible want from a LCD tech monitor. The question is if you want to spend the money. I didn't want to spend $550 USD ($150 off sale price+tax) as I'd rather keep waiting for µLED, but my 12 y/o flaky 1200p VA necessitated it. There are cheaper options that aren't bad e.g. LG 27GL850, but they are only about $100 cheaper. So even though I didn't want to spend money generally, since I was buying something, I was willing to spend a notch more e.g. to get good VA tech.

As soon as I plugged in this G7 and saw it, I was very glad I went with this and didn't go for an IPS option. This may be due to my darker lighting preference though. If you like brightly lit rooms, maybe a cheaper IPS route would be fine. With the G7 though, you can enjoy VA tech without the draw backs usually entailed vs gamer-oriented IPS. I agree with tftcentral, I also found the default sharpness of 60 to be a notch too much and dropped it to 56. And I cranked down the brightness to 17, which is perfect for my dark ambient. I haven't dug into the menu more than this.

Side note: Some people have reported flickering and the 1009.3 firmware released the beginning of November is purported to address that. No issues for me on the 1003.0 firmware the monitor came with, but I plan to upgrade regardless at some point. I wanted to mention this, in case you buy it and be one of the ones to encounter the issue.

Side note 2 / Caveat: I'm current running on a DVI-HDMI cable, as the DP-DP cable included with the G7 is only 5ft, and I need 6ft/2m with my setup. So even if you don't think of your setup as requiring a long cable, you may want to check and confirm you're good with 5ft and add a cable to your cart if otherwise.

 

[Mussels]

All i really care about with that spec, is that Gsync/freesync doesnt flicker.
I'd probably cap the FPS lower than 240, anyway to be honest

 

[DrCR]

I'm now running DP-DP instead of DVI-HDMI. It took a bit to suss that out -- I ultimately had to do a minor case mod to enable the DP cable to 100% plug into the video card. Don't have first hand Gsync feedback for you just yet. I simply thought of you when I saw the below re flickering/firmware and wanted to share, for whatever it's worth. My monitor came with 1003.0, and I upgraded it to the 1009.3 just because.

To ppl interested about flickering
first one was flickering like crazy, it came with firmware 1002. Second one was slightly better but also was very noticable, it came with firmware 1003. The 3rd one (current) appears to mostly flicker only in menus and not that much, but i havent noticed it flicker in games, this one camed with firmware 1004.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Monitors/comments/i622hd

[Re the drama he encountered, my take is that he should have returned to vendor for a refund and movedon/boughtelsewhere/boughtagainafterrefund. Returning for a replacement only nets you a referb i.e. your replacement is what someone else returned. For me, the first thing I checked for was any pixel issues, etc. If I found anything, I would have just sent it back to B&H for a refund.]

Well it's been about 14 hours straight since I opened the box and started configuring.

I've had it connected via DVI-HDMI, DP-DP, and HDMI-HDMI.

First used DVI-HDMI, since the included 5ft DP-DP is a notch too short for me. And while I'm not crazy about the curve for 2D work, it being a good VA panel makes me happy. I did a quick session of TF2 -- it's glorious. This is a great panel. This is in Ubuntu. My Slackware-variant daily driver distro is weirded out by DVI-HDMI -- the text becomes so distorted it's basically unreadable. (Old kernel may be the issue.) So this route is a non-option, at least not without some OS work on my part. And perhaps more fundamentally it would be at least somewhat of a waste to run this monitor at 60Hz anyway.

For DP-DP, I put my PC on blocks to remedy the cable length issue. And... what a mess. With DP-DP, monitor is extremely reluctant to wake up when I turn the computer on. (Video card: Kepler). To elaborate, it intermittently shows it's detecting input on DP1 input, but it's like it's suppressing the computer boot -- the keyboard lighting that appears early in the boot process (pre-GRUB) does appear ... then goes away ... then appears ... and my final-pecking-order floppy drive that has a distinctively loud seek before loading grub is silent the whole time ... until it eventually after innumerable cycles I hear it seek and get to GRUB.

If you look at tftcentral's "VRR Flickering Issues?" section in their review, I also got brightness changing when viewing that GIF. (I have Dynamic Brightness turned off, so that's not a factor.)

And with variable refresh turned off, I found I get slight coil-whine at fixed 240Hz. (Full disclosure: I'm particularly sensitive to coil-whine. Perhaps you aren't.) No coil-whine at 144Hz, but when I played that GIF to see if there was any whine 'under load', I did get some intermittent coil-whine. Same with 120Hz. No issue with 60Hz. (Once again we're at this being an awesome monitor - at 60Hz.)


With perhaps that GIF brightness issue aside, all is wonderful via DVI-HDMI in Ubuntu -- but DVI entails a 60Hz limit at 1440p. And as glorious as the panel is, ~$550 is step for 60Hz. So next step is to try the HDMI-HDMI route, which I'll due in earnest after I step away for a while.

So in a nutshell, it's a great panel that appears to be packaged up into a monitor in an sub-par manner. Maybe this is what I get for not going a LG route, who are my go-to for solid QC.

 

[Mussels]

Definitely go full HDMI or displayport if you can, i dont think you can judge it properly until you have

 

[DrCR]

Yeah, as noted, my next step is to try HDMI-HDMI since DP-DP is a no-go due to drama upon every boot up attempt.

 

[DrCR]

Hi Mussels, I don't really have an update for you re Gsync/freesync flicker. I'll just simply say that if you are OK with IPS, I'd take an LG route. That's what I would have done from the word go if I didn't want VA.

Without elaborating on addition aspects done and encountered since Sunday, I'll simply say the G7 has some known hard limitations e.g. bad backlight-bleed et al. beyond all the QC issues/flickering/et al., plus what I'm experiencing e.g. coil-whine at 120Hz and 240Hz (144Hz is sufficiency acceptable, 60Hz no issue), plus serious extra drama when paired with Kepler. For the time being, I'm living with it as a stellar response time VA 60Hz monitor via HDMI on aged Kepler. $550 USD is a steep price to pay for that. But I'll surely be upgrading my computer between now and µLED. I'm at peace at what it offers me vs its limitations, mainly because I recognize all LCDs have negative aspects, tradeoffs have to be made, and I don't know what else I'd rather have. I thought about buying the LG 27GN850, seeing how I liked it in a dark room environment, and then decide which monitor to return. But the LG 27GN850 appears to be out of stock at least at its normal asking price range.

I came across this in my travels and had to laugh. PC monitors are just bad. µLED can't come quick enough, and I wish my venerable VA 1200p monitor could have held out for it.

 

[Mussels]

I ended up with a Gsync 165Hz with a more sane curve, as it was in stock


I'm so glad i dont have coil whine, or have to drop to 60hz

 

[DrCR]

Cool, glad you're squared away.

Re the coil whine at 120Hz and 240Hz, it's very slight, more than likely unnoticeable, perhaps even undetectable, to most. I'm simply a bit of a freak. My ambient dBA, even with my computer on, is in the teens. Even slight coil whine becomes a big deal at those noise levels, a far bigger deal than any fan aspect as that can be readily addressed.