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11600K + Z590, unable to overclock RAM on Gear 1 beyond 3200 XMP

drapos

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Hi,

I grabbed for cheap a Gigabyte Z590 Vision G and a 11600K.

RAM kit is an old 2x8GB G.Skill Trident Z 3200Mhz CL16-18-18-38 from Hynix.

I am unable to boot this thing even at 3333Mhz Gear 1. Any setting fails entirely to boot and returns me to BIOS without even trying to reach Windows.

I have been playing with Gear 2, and was able to get 3600mhz with the same CAS. But, after reading about this platform, it feels like pretty wasteful to even try on Gear 2 with such a low frecuency.

I went from this results with X.M.P Gear 1:
cachemem default xmp 3200.png


to this on Gear 2:
cachemem 3600 cl16 18 18 36 CR1 Gear 2 Tight.png


with following timmings:
Asrock 3600 Gear 2.png


and more or less following voltages (Aida64 reading):
Aida 64 voltages.png


While my interest would be to use Gear 1 as high as possible, I would accept recomendations on any gear. Not really sure if this custom OC is even worth having over X.M.P, looking at negligible benefit on latency. Or if I should try to lower timmings on 3200mhz Gear 1 and that's it.

My goal is to get a rock solid 24/7 configuration with safe voltages.

Thanks for your time and kind regards.
 
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Your problem is hynix ram, you'll never get tight timings if you're limiting yourself to gear 1.

I literally have a ryzen system that has 10ns lower latency than your intel monolithic system because you're using hynix ram and I have B die.
9.png


8.png
 

drapos

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Just threw same timings at 3200 Gear 1 and 1T without any polish:
cachemem 3200 cl16 18 18 36 CR1 Gear 1 Rough.png

(All settings are being checked with TestMem5 for quick stability test before even bother with further considerations).

Not that far from that AMD latency wise now, but bandwidth went pretty bad.

What should I do?

Keep looking to get tighter timings on 3200mhz Gear 1?
Any advice to increase frecuency on gear 1?

Or just keep trying on Gear 2 with higher bandwith and mediocre to bad latency?

Thanks!
 
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You keep asking what to do. I told you. Get B die or be satisfied with what you have.
 

drapos

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Don't get me wrong, I really appreciate your input.

But I'm trying to fine tune what I have, just a humble build. And learn how thing works with modern setups in the way.

Will keep your advice for a future, more ambitious, build.

=)
 
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OP, I have a similar setup & find pushing as high as you can with gear 2 in bandwidth can help overcome latency issues & of course watch your read/write/copy speeds benefit no doubt. Don't be afraid to up the Vdimm.
 
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when you are able to reach higher frequency with Gear 2 it's your IMC.

bump up that VCCIO/VCCSA to 1.2V each and look if it helps.
 
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Just threw same timings at 3200 Gear 1 and 1T without any polish:
View attachment 226899
(All settings are being checked with TestMem5 for quick stability test before even bother with further considerations).

Not that far from that AMD latency wise now, but bandwidth went pretty bad.

What should I do?

Keep looking to get tighter timings on 3200mhz Gear 1?
Any advice to increase frecuency on gear 1?

Or just keep trying on Gear 2 with higher bandwith and mediocre to bad latency?

Thanks!
Using Windows 11? I guess you should try 10, if you are. I keep wondering if Windows 11 is interfering with AIDA.
 
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when you are able to reach higher frequency with Gear 2 it's your IMC.

bump up that VCCIO/VCCSA to 1.2V each and look if it helps.
I just leave mine on auto voltages cause' I'm lazy atm. Even then I could boot & run MT86 with 32GB kit @ 4400MHz.
 
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The topic is about RAM & overclocking it, not the CPU.
correct.
this is about RAM. and killing your IMC when you have no clue what you are doing.
 
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Official RAM support is 3200 MHz for your CPU. There's nothing surprising about your findings. When someone can push their RAM higher in gear 1, that's just luck.

RAM overclocking is overrated anyway. ;)
 
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The topic is about RAM & overclocking it, not the CPU.

He means you can still kill your CPU with high VCCIO & VCCSA voltage. Please be careful.
 
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He means you can still kill your CPU with high VCCIO & VCCSA voltage. Please be careful.
So you think modern motherboards with updated bioses stuff up auto voltages? like they want the user to destroy their equipment, that'll be good for motherboard manufacturer's industry reputation & warranty returns. :rolleyes:
It also depends on how the mobo vendor implements their bios values for performance. Some are more aggressive than others with those voltage values. Tells you something about how much faith the mobo vendor has in their product.
 
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So you think modern motherboards with updated bioses stuff up auto voltages? like they want the user to destroy their equipment, that'll be good for motherboard manufacturer's industry reputation & warranty returns. :rolleyes:
It also depends on how the mobo vendor implements their bios values for performance. Some are more aggressive than others with those voltage values. Tells you something about how much faith the mobo vendor has in their product.

Yep, I've seen too many high voltages on Auto bios over my time especially while overclocking.

I reduce them to protect CPU and also reduce heat...
 
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Memory overclocking is not guaranteed. Assume these are Hynix CJR. The lowest CL is 16 and those ICs max out around 4000 MT/s.

If I was you and needed to overclock, I would just do 16-21-21-38 @ 3600. Probably only need 1.35V. For the CPU I would set the VCCIO(2)/VCCSA to 1.3v with Gear 1. If it boots and passes stability tests. Go back and lower the SA to 1.2v. If that works, do the same for the IMC (VCCIO/2).

The IMC on the 11th gen is a lottery. For my 11900K, DDR4-3600 is the limit for Gear 1:1 and REQUIRES 1.3v on the IMC. Some people get luck and have CPUs that can do 4000.
 
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drapos

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OP, I have a similar setup & find pushing as high as you can with gear 2 in bandwidth can help overcome latency issues & of course watch your read/write/copy speeds benefit no doubt. Don't be afraid to up the Vdimm.
I have to check how far can I get on Gear 2 with these dimms indeed!
when you are able to reach higher frequency with Gear 2 it's your IMC.

bump up that VCCIO/VCCSA to 1.2V each and look if it helps.
Tried up to 1.3V on them both with no luck. It doesn't boot beyond 3333 on gear 1 at all, even with pretty loose timings.
Using Windows 11? I guess you should try 10, if you are. I keep wondering if Windows 11 is interfering with AIDA.
Windows 10. I don't want to add another variable yet.
Official RAM support is 3200 MHz for your CPU. There's nothing surprising about your findings. When someone can push their RAM higher in gear 1, that's just luck.

RAM overclocking is overrated anyway. ;)
Yeah, it is more about being enthusiastic than for any real benefit.
Memory overclocking is not guaranteed. Assume these are Hynix CJR. The lowest CL is 16 and those ICs max out around 4000 MT/s.

If I was you and needed to overclock, I would just do 16-21-21-38 @ 3600. Probably only need 1.35V. For the CPU I would set the VCCIO(2)/VCCSA to 1.3v with Gear 1. If it boots and passes stability tests. Go back and lower the SA to 1.2v. If that works, do the same for the IMC (VCCIO/2).

The IMC on the 11th gen is a lottery. For my 11900K, DDR4-3600 is the limit for Gear 1:1 and REQUIRES 1.3v on the IMC. Some people get luck and have CPUs that can do 4000.
Tried those voltages, did nothing. It is like this thing doesn't scale up with voltages. I know BIOS setting is working because I need to raise VCCIO2 +0,03v and Dimm +0,1v to achieve the following stable:
cachemem 3200 cl15 16 16 32 CR1 Gear 1 Tight.png

Asrock 3200 Gear 1.png



Can do 14-16-16-32, but with a pretty hefty voltage increase, so I don't find it worth it at all.

I started with high voltages as suggested until I was able to stabilize as tight as possible, then I was amazed at how much voltage I was able to reduce afterwards..

A side effect is that, after undervolting SA/VCCIO2 from XMP values, it shaved like ~3W from CPU package power consumption on idle. Go figure.

I still think I'm doing something wrong and should be able to get more frecuency on gear 1 given how easily the dimms overclock on Gear 2.

Thanks everyone for your feedback!
 
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I doubt you are going to get much better than what you have on that RAM.

In my experience, about 50000MB/s and 50ns is the best that DDR4-3200 can do. If you are shooting for higher clock speed you'll probably have to raise tRFC and lower tREFI, which winds up being self-defeating in terms of latency because even if you get to DDR4-3600 you've only added 12% to clock speed but will probably have to introduce 20% or more to latencies. You'd also need to raise SA/VCCIO2 and so on.
 
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OP, there is F6 bios for your board. I would suggest check OC potential with that.
I'm testing a 16GB kit of CJR on my Z590 now with 4400 speed@1.45vdimm & F6 bios.
 

drapos

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I doubt you are going to get much better than what you have on that RAM.

In my experience, about 50000MB/s and 50ns is the best that DDR4-3200 can do. If you are shooting for higher clock speed you'll probably have to raise tRFC and lower tREFI, which winds up being self-defeating in terms of latency because even if you get to DDR4-3600 you've only added 12% to clock speed but will probably have to introduce 20% or more to latencies. You'd also need to raise SA/VCCIO2 and so on.
I see.

At this point is a trade between bandwidth and latencies.

Would need to check carefully app by app, but I think I'm more comfortable with lower latencies and slight undervolt for 24/7. These CPUs need every Watt you can remove from them.

Kinda dissapointed, though. Wasn't aiming for any world record, but thought that 3600 G1 should have been done easily.
OP, there is F6 bios for your board. I would suggest check OC potential with that.
I'm testing a 16GB kit of CJR on my Z590 now with 4400 speed@1.45vdimm & F6 bios.
I have already updated to F6, as you can see on my last screenshot. I lost all the profiles I was working on, but no improvement on RAM OC.

Could you share your findings?
 
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I have already updated to F6, as you can see on my last screenshot. I lost all the profiles I was working on, but no improvement on RAM OC.

Could you share your findings?

What screenshot? the only I see in this thread is Aida64 one from you indicating F5.

I can share the findings when I finish memtestpro @ 400% coverage, a work still in progress atm.

Update: finally completed over 400% coverage....
MTP_430c_4400_F6 - Copy.jpg
 
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drapos

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What screenshot? the only I see in this thread is Aida64 one from you indicating F5.

I can share the findings when I finish memtestpro @ 400% coverage, a work still in progress atm.

Update: finally completed over 400% coverage....
View attachment 228786
Whops, something happening with attachments.

I can't see your screenshot neither.

Asrock 3200 Gear 1.png
cachemem 3200 cl15 16 16 32 CR1 Gear 1 Tight.png
 
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I'd re up load that image but the option to edit my post is absent.
 

Tigger

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Your problem is hynix ram, you'll never get tight timings if you're limiting yourself to gear 1.

I literally have a ryzen system that has 10ns lower latency than your intel monolithic system because you're using hynix ram and I have B die. View attachment 226889

View attachment 226890

What voltage you got on that ram? i have B die, mines 3800 16/16/16/36 1.4v
 
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