Netflix causes things to drop from the network

[Frick]

So, a friend has some really strange issues.

The network setup is as follows:

24 mbit/s DSL connection -> ISP Supplied DSL modem/router (only used as modem) -> Netgear Nighthawk (not sure on the exact version, probably the highest end one) -> some basic switches where needed

They have a couple of kids and load and loads of equipment, hence him starting to ethernet things up; before everything was wireless. The problem is two of the things connected to the network (wired), drops whenever an iPad logs into Netflix. These are: 1) a basic HP printer and 2) a Maranz SR7010. The two are connectec to different switches (as I understood it).

It happens on all the iPads in the household, and nothing else, not iPhones or AppleTV or anything. The iPads are of different generations but on the same iOS version (the latest, whatever that is). As soon as you select a user in the Netflix app, the reciever and the printer simply dissapears from the network. They did change the IP adresses on the printer and reciever, but that didn't work. DHCP is obviously on, I don't know how they changed settings on the router, but I do know a guy I know to be good with these things was there for a long time and didn't resolve it.

They have probably not shuffled the IP adresses around, IE turning DHCP off, assigning an adress to the reciver, have it dropped from the network and then assign that IP to say the AppleTV.

He said he will bring the devices to a different network to see how it behaves there, dunno if he'll do it today or next week.

To me it sounds like a software thing, I don't think the router or modem is at fault. Some conflict in Netflix/iOS/nic somehow, but I found it very interesting anyway.


(tangential to this, his workplace provided that reciever because he works in an audio/video store and they needed a sound guy, I would hate him if he wasn't so likeable and his wife was my coworker)

 

[ne6togadno]

any rules added to dhcp like ip binding to mac addresses or limiting range of available ip addresses?

 

[Shou Miko]

if the printer and receiver is wired, couldn't it be a bad switch or wifi router when there is too much traffic it can't do handle it?

I have experienced smth similar at the office i work in when i write to the server we have at work, the internet drops from time to time or is just very slow, that's bcs of a old switch that's not gonna be changed in the future.

(I am no network Guru of some sort, more into hardware)

 

[Frick]

if the printer and receiver is wired, couldn't it be a bad switch or wifi router when there is too much traffic it can't do handle it?

I have experienced smth similar at the office i work in when i write to the server we have at work, the internet drops from time to time or is just very slow, that's bcs of a old switch that's not gonna be changed in the future.

(I am no network Guru of some sort, more into hardware)

The thing is it is only those two devices being affected. They've changed IP adresses and shuffled around the cables but it is still only the printer and the reciever.

 

[Mussels]

Are the clients dropping also on wifi? If so, changing wifi settings could likely fix it.

 

[remixedcat]

do they have stock firmware or something like DDWRT? if stock then they should get some better firmware and see if that helps. also widen the netrange. /16 instead of /24

and the receiver is another D+M holdings one and they have some netcode simalarities and those work well with wide ip ranges. my denon HEOS units work fine with those and Denon is part of D+M holdings (Denon + Marantz Holdings) Mine actually works better with it then a narrow range lol.

 

[Frick]

Are the clients dropping also on wifi? If so, changing wifi settings could likely fix it.

I asked him, and yes, at least the amp drop from WiFi as well.

do they have stock firmware or something like DDWRT? if stock then they should get some better firmware and see if that helps. also widen the netrange. /16 instead of /24

and the receiver is another D+M holdings one and they have some netcode simalarities and those work well with wide ip ranges. my denon HEOS units work fine with those and Denon is part of D+M holdings (Denon + Marantz Holdings) Mine actually works better with it then a narrow range lol.

Stock. If by netrange you mean netmask, why would it help to widen it? You're just increasing the adress pool and I doubt they have 254 hosts. Unless you mean something else.

 

[remixedcat]

yes, that, and I've had conflicts allready lol. I needeed to widen mine. ha ha

 

[Kursah]

I have had issues with older iOS devices in the past...but not to this scale nor with Netflix iirc...but it is an interesting issue to say the least. Is the user using any advanced QoS settings or configs that could be temporarily disabled? Any changes to the router's firewall settings?

I also agree that in this situation, it doesn't appear you need to expand the DHCP scope...I try to keep it minimized, most home situations around 25-50 at most usually does the trick and then some. Set important devices like printers, receivers, servers, TV's, etc. all in statically. I should add without knowing how many hosts are connected, all we can do as assume here.

I agree to check/update the firmware or even try a modded firmware if available. Has anyone checked the logs on the router to verify the dropouts it might be reporting? Is the user able to remove the switches in use temporarily?

Has someone ran a continuous ping (ping -t 0.0.0.0 in Windows or just ping 0.0.0.0 in Linux/Mac Terminal where 0.0.0.0 is obviously the IP address you want to ping) while this occurs to verify that those devices are really losing network connectivity? If so, I'd say there's some sort of issue with the router if devices are falling out.

If those two devices can be connected directly to the Ethernet ports on the back of the router (which is just a standard L2 switch) and the situation no longer occurs, then there's an issue with how packets are handled to the switches...if it continues to occur, I'd say its an issue with the router. I'd be checking logs first and foremost...then upgrading firmware, be it OEM or DDWRT or next best option, and then removing anything I can to verify what might be the culprit. Maybe your network buddy already did all this...maybe not. But let's trim the fat and remove those wired devices from switches and connect them directly to the router's switch ports just to make sure.

Also if continuous ping shows the devices are still ping-able after the iOS/Netflix issue, then I wonder what kind of packets are roaming the network...might need to break out WireShark to record a section and see what kind of traffic is on the network...make sure there's not a flood or spoof or anything malicious...

 

[xorbe]

Netgear Nighthawk

That's my guess. I had a particular Linksys that was buggy, and caused me no end of headaches until I replaced it. Or one of his "basic switches".

 

[Solaris17]

honestly id say its one of the switches or the router.

 

[Steevo]

Im guessing a QoS setting in the router, or switches.

 

[Frick]

Update: It was actually Netflix. He got to talk (actually talk, not just mail) to someone in the US about it. They've updated the app and it now works. That was unexpected.

 

[Shou Miko]

Update: It was actually Netflix. He got to talk (actually talk, not just mail) to someone in the US about it. They've updated the app and it now works. That was unexpected.

Nice, I know Netflix in denmark are nice ppl too, or the few I have spoke with when I used their service had some trouble with Microsoft Silverlight they actually helped me to fix so I could use their service.

 

[xorbe]

Update: It was actually Netflix. He got to talk (actually talk, not just mail) to someone in the US about it. They've updated the app and it now works. That was unexpected.

This should be impossible from a technical standpoint? Netflix is an application, not an OS level driver.

 

[Mussels]

This should be impossible from a technical standpoint? Netflix is an application, not an OS level driver.

coulda been spamming say, 50TCP connection attempts - and that number coulda climbed on packet loss. they coulda made it less aggressive, and therefore not overloaded weak routers.

 

[Frick]

coulda been spamming say, 50TCP connection attempts - and that number coulda climbed on packet loss. they coulda made it less aggressive, and therefore not overloaded weak routers.

But that router isn't weak, is it? It was quite expensive for a home router, and it worked on the old, ISP supplied router.

@xorbe Aye, I've been thinking about it and it doesn't make sense, especially not as it always was the same two devices that got dropped regardless their IP numbers. But the only thing that changed was Netflix, and now it works. Will try to coax out more details from the guy, but he's not very interested in the "deeper" side of stuff.

 

[remixedcat]

Some routers do have TCP connection limits and they are quite often VERY low like less than 4,000 or so. streaming eats those up quite quickly

 

[Mussels]

DD-WRT shows connection limits and lets you tweak it, but i was seeing huge variances in my routers based on RAM amounts. One router here was as low as 400 - and during a period of heavy packet loss i was seeing 5000 active 'sessions' on my primary router once, since they'd send new attempts before the old one fully timed out.

No netflix was used during that time, its just an example.

 

[Parlsson]

I work on a isp that have DSL customers and I have modems dropped because several reasons one running on WEP and not wpa2 another reason bad power supply when connections and through put when up the rebooted/power cycled and a router with bad power supply will cut wifi if senses power issues as a self defence too keep running found out about the power issue when some met heads in first line sent wrong replacement power transformer to customers