2700X high temps with ARO M14 cooler

[SL2]

And I think, that this amount of paste is too much. You need a thin layer between the 2 surfaces, just to fill the microscopic gaps. Not to cover the whole surfaces with thick layer.

How do you expect that to happen if the heatsink doesn't apply enough pressure? The reason for the thick layer is the same as for the lack of contact in the corner.

As for quantity, it's fine. You can't really do too much unless the paste is more like clay, dunno if that exists.

 

[Caring1]

How do you expect that to happen if the heatsink doesn't apply enough pressure? The reason for the thick layer is the same as for the lack of contact in the corner.

As for quantity, it's fine. You can't really do too much unless the paste is more like clay, dunno if that exists.

If the contact pressure is that bad, perhaps thermal pads are the better option, instead of paste.

 

[SL2]

If the contact pressure is that bad, perhaps thermal pads are the better option, instead of paste.

I wonder if he ever checked if the heatsink was firmly secured, or if it could be moved around.
Either way, he's moved on now. Although 75° sounds quite much for the new cooler.

 

[freeagent]

It looks like it rocked back a little before he mounted. It’s weird that it’s like that because that cooler is AM4 only.

 

[SL2]

Seems like we're more than one forum member who wants to solve this mystery, even though the OP has moved on.

 

[tazztone]

I wonder if he ever checked if the heatsink was firmly secured, or if it could be moved around.
Either way, he's moved on now. Although 75° sounds quite much for the new cooler.

after mounting it was 100% rock solid secured.
before mounting i moved it around a little on the thermal paste to ensure contact.

i didn't move on. i will probably mount this cooler a third time to see if i still get the bad temps. need some more thermal paste first.
i looked at the backplate and couldn't find any faults with it.
(i am a CNC mechanic by profession by the way. for what it's worth)

 

[SL2]

after mounting it was 100% rock solid secured.

Now this is a mystery to me, I didn't really expect that. (So placing the case on its side, or upside down, doesn't change anything? )

I was thinking that the mounting frame, or the tabs at the bottom of the HS (with two holes) to be bent or not parallel with the board. Bring the caliper.
A washer in the wrong spot, or missing?

Some obstruction could be the cause, like any part of the HS, or a screw, touching VRM heatsinks or capacitors (not likely on your board), or wrong parts used, including screws.

Edit 2: Is the CPU properly seated in the socket?

Edit:
If the frame isn't parallel (or unlikely bent) with the CPU, and since the mounting tabs on the HS are fixed and unlikely to be bent, the heatsink would still be rock solid, because it's firmly secured in the frame the doesn't move either. Fixed tabs = doesn't require full support from the CPU to be rock solid.

Or, after looking at your HS with paste on again, it looks like this corner (red) must be higher than the other three, maybe a washer causing it?

 

[tazztone]

so i re examined everything and took REALLYY great care while mounting the ARO once more.
temps around 85°C in cinebench. looks like that's the best it can do.

 

[HD64G]

The photo of the paste missing from one corner clearly means that something on the mounting mechanism (socket mounts or cooler) causes the top right corner to get attached to the CPU and the other 3 corners don't. That causes the overheating.

 

[SL2]

The photo of the paste missing from one corner clearly means that something on the mounting mechanism (socket mounts or cooler) causes the top right corner to get attached to the CPU and the other 3 corners don't. That causes the overheating.

Well I guess you missed my post #32.

 

[QuietBob]

temps around 85°C in cinebench

That's the kind of delta I'd expect between the ARO and a 240mm AIO. Your case seems starved for air, though. You should be able to knock off a few degrees in a high-airflow case.

 

[HD64G]

Well I guess you missed my post #32.

No, totally agreed and just said the same thing with other words in order to make the OP check again if not alarmed by your post already.

 

[freeagent]

Just curious what the mounting pressure is like? My LGMRT and TS140P on Intel are very tight, cannot twist cooler at all when fully clamped. But both coolers on AM4 feel like half the pressure is gone, can twist the coolers a bit.. not sure I like that too much..

 

[tazztone]

That's the kind of delta I'd expect between the ARO and a 240mm AIO. Your case seems starved for air, though.

thanks for the assessment. the benchmarks have been done with an open case tho. a P500A case is lying around waiting to get fed with HW. not sure if i should go full 420 LFII AIO for the 5900x (which i don't own yet)

i will be testing a DARK ROCK TF cooler soon (it was on sale for 40$ shipped )

also i ordered a backplate from arctic (they offer free ones to LFII buyers as stated in their manual) i will test if it makes any difference. even tho the one i have installed now seems to be quite okay according to my caliper

with all this going on the mistery should be solved soon (i hope)

 

[tazztone]

the bequiet dark rock TF managed to cool the 2700X to 76°C at 155W power draw (79°C with case closed, multiple runs). (10°C cooler than the ARO)
also look at the much less steep temp curve! it's slowly reaching max temp. (Where with the aro it was an instant 86 °C)

http://imgur.com/1HmfdwN

i can imagine the mounting error (where the paste was uneven) was because one of the distance pins wasn't fully fastened...
but the the last time the ARO was 100% mounted correctly and it still hit 85°C instantly (paste was well distributed this time).

 

[iuliug]

Hi i have a 2700x. do you keep it on Auto or did you enable PBO? In auto it should never come close 150W.

 

[tazztone]

Hi i have a 2700x. do you keep it on Auto or did you enable PBO? In auto it should never come close 150W.

all auto.
what does that mean for me now?

 

[Zach_01]

If PBO is Enabled and all Auto, no manual limits or voltage curves, then the CPU boosts, clocks and limits it self to the point that it thinks it’s safe according to temp. And 150W isn’t far ahead from stock settings (no PBO/XFR enhancement).

 

[iuliug]

In auto it should hover around the advertised 105W (mine goes to 120 if i throw benchmarks at it but depends on cooling - mine never goes above 65C). When i use handbrake it does 110w at 1.26v at 3950mhz 60 ish C).
Yours CPU get 1.3v 150wat and stays below 3.9GHZ if I read the graphs correctly.
Check your MB bios settings - see if there is one setting this behavior. Alternatively use AMD Ryzen Master on Auto as it overrides the MB bios and see what it does.

 

[John Naylor]

A. Air Flow

1. t would seem that you have more air going in than out via those fans; this creates negative pressure inside the case.
2. When negative pressure occurs, it must be balanced so air will be drawn in from case opening, the largest of which providing the most likely path, in your case those vented slot covers.
3. You have your GFX card and heat sink exiting the back of the case which is usually backed up within a few inches of a wall.
4. So in a negative pressure situation, you have the hot exhaust from that 650 watt PSU, GFX Card and CPU all be sent behind your case and likely recycled back inside your case.
5. The way around this is to have more fan air blowing in than out. With filters, a good rule of thumb is 3 intakes (of same size) for every 2 exhaust. It gets harder to estimate with different size fans as if you get 50% of the flow and SP it says on the specs and the box you are lucky. Good reading here:

Why Static Pressure & Max Flow Specs Are Poor Measures of Fan Performance

This is just a quick graphing demonstration of why fan box specs using static pressure and max air flow are generally poor tools in comparing fan performance. Very much like pumps, fans have a pre…

martinsliquidlab.wordpress.com

6. You can test for this condition with a can of liquid smoke available at your local hardware store. Direct the spray at you slot covers... if it goes in, it's taking all of that heat with it.

B. Cooler

1. There aren't many reviews on you cooler so hard to make a judgement there.
2. TIM application is a significant variable, Two point hold down methods do work different than 4 points, toy need to make sure you are applying the correct hold down force of about 70 pounds. With a 4 point installation that's about 17 pounds of pressure being applied per hold down screw; with two hold down points, that needs to be 35.
3. There is no "best" application method ... there are bests for different types of heat sinks. Good instructions "Do's and Don'ts" here

IC Diamond – Application – Innovation Cooling

C. Test Method

1. When you test with benchmarks or "stress tests", recognize that you are presenting a load that your PC is never likely to see again. While it may be soothing to know that you are "bulletproof", do you walk around every day with a bullettproof vest. If you use such to set a stable OC, it will mean the the OC you set will be lower than it otherwise would be using normal applications.
2. If you use an application based benchmark such as RoG Real Bench, your temps will be 7- 10C lower.
3. I should also note that we have had instances of 24 hour stable P95 OCs fail in a multitasking benchmark like RoG Real Bench
4. In short, if you pass the 2 hour test under RB, you can be pretty sure that you have stable settings and you will have much lower operating temps.

 

[Zach_01]

In auto it should hover around the advertised 105W (mine goes to 120 if i throw benchmarks at it but depends on cooling - mine never goes above 65C). When i use handbrake it does 110w at 1.26v at 3950mhz 60 ish C).
Yours CPU get 1.3v 150wat and stays below 3.9GHZ if I read the graphs correctly.
Check your MB bios settings - see if there is one setting this behavior. Alternatively use AMD Ryzen Master on Auto as it overrides the MB bios and see what it does.

The advertised TDP is not the max power consumption of a/the CPU. For AMD specifically the 105W TDP is for the minimum thermal solution you must install. A cooler with at least 105W thermal capacity (thermal dissipation). Usually AMD’s Ryzens 105W TDP CPUs are consuming around 140-142W at stock. This is called PPT (Package Power Tracking).

 

[QuietBob]

the bequiet dark rock TF managed to cool the 2700X to 76°C at 155W power draw (79°C with case closed, multiple runs). (10°C cooler than the ARO)

Good showing for the Dark Rock TF, but I'm still somewhat baffled by the lackluster performance of the ARO M14. I'm using one of my Machos (essentially the same cooler as your ARO) with a Ryzen 3 3300X, a chip that is notoriously hard to cool due to its single CCX architecture. According to reviews, your 2700X should have lower temperature than the 3300X, even when fully loaded:



My stock 3300X got to 74 C in CB20 using the Macho, with 22 C ambient. Your ARO M14 scored 86 C with the 2700X. That's a 12 C delta, a difference I find hard to attribute only to case design. What is your room temperature?

Also, you must have noticed that with your current cooler, your average all core clocks have increased by 100 MHz. This is how Ryzen chips work with their default settings: the cooler you keep them, the higher the boost.

 

[tazztone]

My stock 3300X got to 74 C in CB20 using the Macho, with 22 C ambient. Your ARO M14 scored 86 C with the 2700X. That's a 12 C delta

i found this review (translated from russian): https://tiny-reviews.com/reviews/2130-overview-on-thermalright-aro-m14g-processor-cooler
"Unfortunately, solders are not used in the places of fastening of heat pipes and aluminum heat-dissipating plates. Also, I could not make out the solder at the junction of the heat pipes and the heat sink body. This fact puzzled me. Either the soldering is so neat that it is not visible or it is not there. If so, then this is a serious flaw. Of course, the cooler is not the most expensive, but it claims to be of the highest quality. Moreover, in the Macho version there is definitely solder.
...
P.S.: After completing all the tests and writing the review, I started the test again, then flipped the side cover of the case and touched the heat pipes with my hand at the very base of the sole. At a processor temperature of 83 degrees the heat pipes were cold!"

this could be the reason why the temp shoots up instantly with the ARO M14, because the heat cannot dissapate anywhere quickly.
my ambient is 22°C

 

[freeagent]

I with QB on this. I really don't know what to make of it. I own 3 Thermalright coolers and they are all soldered, you can see it. Does you cooler look like the one in the link with no solder?

 

[tazztone]

Does you cooler look like the one in the link with no solder?

http://imgur.com/LWdfhTF

it sure does if you ask me

http://imgur.com/dOxMn3E

http://imgur.com/kLYAQSa