Razer Viper 8K

[pzogel]

Razer updates the wired Viper with 8000 Hz polling and their Focus+ 20,000 CPI sensor. Other than that, it's essentially the same mouse: Razer optical main button switches, 69 g lightweight design, and pure PTFE feet.

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[dgianstefani]

Nice.

I'll wait for the wireless version.

 

[R-T-B]

Nice.

I'll wait for the wireless version.

The whole selling point of this mouse is the 8000hz polling and low latency... that will surely be dropped in any wireless version I'd think.

 

[b1gLoRD]

The whole selling point of this mouse is the 8000hz polling and low latency... that will surely be dropped in any wireless version I'd think.

While it was in development there was some article about higher pooling wireless version is not going to happend because so much higher battery comsumption vs standard pooling rate so battery will be empty in hours instead of days.

 

[dgianstefani]

The whole selling point of this mouse is the 8000hz polling and low latency... that will surely be dropped in any wireless version I'd think.

No. The viper ultimate which is wireless has lower click latency than most wired mice.

While it was in development there was some article about higher pooling wireless version is not going to happend because so much higher battery comsumption vs standard pooling rate so battery will be empty in hours instead of days.

Just need to put a better battery in. Even if it had a 6 hour battery life instead of several days like the normal viper would still work. Not many people game for longer than 6 hours and the dock makes it easy to charge.

 

[pzogel]

Nice.

I'll wait for the wireless version.

Currently, there are unresolved technical limitations in relation to bringing 8000 Hz to wireless. It's entirely possible those limitations won't be solved at all or at least not in the next couple of years, so it might become a longer wait.

 

[dgianstefani]

That's fine, my Viper Ultimate is a great mouse, it's purely the chase of something better.

Until there is something better (not aware of anything) i'm more than happy to wait.

Maybe there will be a refreshed viper ultimate with the second gen optical switches that might tempt me if there's also other improvements.

My stuff is always trickled down anyway - so my friends and parents get great kit that's no longer the cutting edge/best.

It's also possible they do a 4000hz or something to make it work nicely with wireless.

 

[pzogel]

Maybe there will be a refreshed viper ultimate with the second gen optical switches that might tempt me if there's also other improvements.

That one's already out, the Mercury edition and any regular batch produced after the former will be outfitted with second-generation Razer optical switches.

 

[dgianstefani]

NGL i was tempted by the mercury edition but hey, it's a $129 mouse I'm not replacing it just for minor revisions lol.

 

[Ferrum Master]

The is no need to do additional shielding for 8KHz polling atop 2.4GHz base signal... cut the philosophy in the end about the cable. They just overdid it.

 

[pzogel]

The is no need to do additional shielding for 8KHz polling atop 2.4GHz base signal... cut the philosophy in the end about the cable. They just overdid it.

I've heard from several people who experienced ill behavior after installing a different cable with weaker shielding, so it's definitely necessary to have it, especially if any sort of interference is involved.

 

[Razer_TheFiend]

The is no need to do additional shielding for 8KHz polling atop 2.4GHz base signal... cut the philosophy in the end about the cable. They just overdid it.

LOL, how does that make any sense at all? Of course, it's all backed by hard data.

If we could get away with the same cable (or even unshielded cable) why would we add more cost on shielding and making the cable "worse"?

 

[Ferrum Master]

LOL, how does that make any sense at all? Of course, it's all backed by hard data.

If we could get away with the same cable (or even unshielded cable) why would we add more cost on shielding and making the cable "worse"?

Do you believe in those snake oil cables too?

OK, cutting the crap, nobody does understand what polling really is then. The base BUS protocol frequency remains the same 2.4GHz here with all USB IF mechanisms taking place. How fast you trigger the interrupts on the CPU does not matter signal integrity wise in this rather slow connection example.

Look at the cable. Where is your mighty shielding? It even does not have USB3 additional data pairs, the USB2.0 only. There is nothing more special. The point is, actually that mice due triggering so fast it's CPU heats up and consumes way more power and there are added AWG power cables, those are doubled here are to mitigate voltage drop across the cable. It has nothing to do with shielding... If you can't accept a suggestion, then let it be an unprofessional review.

 

[evernessince]

While it was in development there was some article about higher pooling wireless version is not going to happend because so much higher battery comsumption vs standard pooling rate so battery will be empty in hours instead of days.

This is really pointless unless that article came from logitech or razer's R&D department (which of course it didn't).

Currently, there are unresolved technical limitations in relation to bringing 8000 Hz to wireless. It's entirely possible those limitations won't be solved at all or at least not in the next couple of years, so it might become a longer wait.

The same could have been said for 8K polling rates and before that ultra-lightweight and before that wireless gaming mice. I don't see what's so surprising that the industry continue to advance the technology. Given that there are 1K wireless mice with lower lag than 1K wired mice, it's pretty clear it's going to be possible, whether that be soon or a few years down the line.

TBH the wireless version doesn't even need to be 8K. 4K would be more than enough IMO. Not all improvements to the sensors are in the polling rate either.

 

[las]

Rocket Jump Ninja made a video about this. Numerous game engines have issues when polling rate is set to 8K. Just something to consider if you plan to get this.

Personally, I simply can't go back to wired again. The freedom with a wireless mouse is amazing. I perform the exact same in fast paced shooters, IF not better because of no cable drag etc. Even with a bungee it's not even close to a wireless mouse. I can still feel the cable pulling, which results in uneven movement.

Would be nice to see an update Viper Ultimate with 2-4K in the 60 gram category.

 

[pzogel]

Rocket Jump Ninja made a video about this. Numerous game engines have issues when polling rate is set to 8K. Just something to consider if you plan to get this.

Some of those game engines claimed to be incompatible in that video are shown to be perfectly compatible with 8000 Hz polling in the review, so that claim is not accurate. To put it as bluntly as possible, there is no general incompatibility of numerous game engines with 8000 Hz polling, and any claims to the contrary are patently untrue. It's likely his system is either poorly configured or he has non-gaming applications running that interact inadvertently with those games.

 

[las]

Some of those game engines claimed to be incompatible in that video are shown to be perfectly compatible with 8000 Hz polling in the review, so that claim is not accurate. To put it as bluntly as possible, there is no general incompatibility of numerous game engines with 8000 Hz polling, and any claims to the contrary are patently untrue. It's likely his system is either poorly configured or he has non-gaming applications running that interact inadvertently with those games.

Not sure, have not tried it myself, but there is several people having issues when using 8000 Hz.
They are reporting stuttering and jerky mousemovement in several titles, like Apex Legends, LoL, CSGO, Quake Live/Champions, Cyberpunk etc.

 

[pzogel]

Not sure, have not tried it myself, but there is several people having issues when using 8000 Hz.
They are reporting stuttering and jerky mousemovement in several titles, like Apex Legends, LoL, CSGO, Quake Live/Champions, Cyberpunk etc.

I've seen those reports and talked to the people in some cases, and it always turned out some other application was interfering with polling performance. After adjusting settings and terminating certain applications, issues were lessened or resolved entirely, which would be impossible if the games themselves were the culprit.

 

[kasik]

Great review as usual, pzogel. TPU is certainly my go to site for mouse reviews these days.

I've had this mouse for a couple of months now, and I personally ended up using it at 4khz, because I get fps drops with 8khz on some games when moving the mouse fast. Looks like my CPU (6850k @ 4.4) can't handle the 8khz. 4khz is plenty however and I really can't notice any other difference compared to 8khz, except that I don't get fps drops on any games with it.

That being said, this is by far the best tracking I've experienced with any mouse during my 15 years+ of afps gaming, and I'm surprised how much of a difference the higher polling rate actually makes. It's smoother, but most importantly it feels noticeably less delayed movement wise.

 

[las]

I've seen those reports and talked to the people in some cases, and it always turned out some other application was interfering with polling performance. After adjusting settings and terminating certain applications, issues were lessened or resolved entirely, which would be impossible if the games themselves were the culprit.

Well, still something buyers will have to consider. Big annoyance if you ask me. When I start a game, I don't want to troubleshoot issues, I want to play.

 

[pzogel]

Well, still something buyers will have to consider. Big annoyance if you ask me. When I start a game, I don't want to troubleshoot issues, I want to play.

That I agree with—would be interesting to know how widespread such issues really are.

 

[las]

That I agree with—would be interesting to know how widespread such issues really are.

Yes. I saw people claim it was Origin the other day, but I guess it can be multiple apps doing this

 

[axaro1]

@pzogel
Does motion sync actually make a difference or does it only make mousetester graphs look better?
Btw EGG released the XM1R software and bugfix firmware on their Discord.

 

[pzogel]

@pzogel
Does motion sync actually make a difference or does it only make mousetester graphs look better?
Btw EGG released the XM1R software and bugfix firmware on their Discord.

It ensures the 'timing window' between SPI communication and USB polling events is as small as possible, which both minimises latency (by up to an entire poll period, i.e. 1 ms at 1000 Hz) and maximises consistency. Still, the improvement is usually in the realm of microseconds, so it's at least debatable whether this improvement could be deemed meaningful or not. In any case, the usefulness or impact of MotionSync diminishes the higher the polling rate is.

The software as well? I have to admit I had lost hope myself by now. I'll look into it—thanks!