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2x new MAG Z490 Tomahawk at random time show me 0ºC for CPU and fans not spinning at all when PC turn ON

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I have a strange issue, very rare and random when PC turns ON all the fans are not working at all, not spinning and CPU show me 0ºC in bios and windows also.
It fixed by turning OFF the PC and turning ON again.
Very hard to reproduce the error since is random and rare.
*** Want to say that 2 fans still working they are connected to a spliter that is connected dirrectly to a power suply.
Only fans that are connected to motherboard are not spinning.


So I returned the motherboard in case something was wrong with it, I got new motherboard (same model MAG Z490 Tomahawk), but problem still here.
So at this time I think both motherboards have not been the problem since 2 differents units acting the same, so definitly the issue is with my other components I guess

What could cause this failure ?

Happens with bios 1.10 (22/05/20) and 1.20 (22/07/20)


My specs:
i7-10700K
MSI RTX 2060 Ventus OC
32GB RAM
MSI MAG Z490 Tomahawk
M.2 NVMe WD Black SN750
Corsair RM750X V2
Noctua NH-D15 chromax.black
 
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Odd that it boots. I would try a different PSU since everything depends on quality power. Triple check to make sure you have all PSU connections too.
 

tigger

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Could it be the PSU?
 
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How it can be the PSU while everything going fine ?
If the PSU is the problem why my others fans that are connected to the PSU they are spinning when this issue happens ?

I mean intense gaming + some stress on all PC while testing the OC, and never shutdown the PC or something.

Plus the PSU is quite new, bought it on may 2020.


I dont know but I dont see any relation between the PSU and 0ºC reported on CPU

Is has to be another problem somewhere
 
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How it can be the PSU while everything going fine ?
If the PSU is the problem why my others fans that are connected to the PSU they are spinning when this issue happens ?
Well, "everything" is not going fine. And power supplies are required to output +12VDC, +5VDC and +3.3VDC though multiple connections. Fans spinning, for example, does not mean all the voltages are present where they are supposed to be all the time.
Plus the PSU is quite new, bought it on may 2020.
That does not mean anything. Until Man can create perfection 100% of the time, even the best models from the most reliable makers can have units that fail to meet specs, or that fail prematurely. There could be a faulty component from another maker inside. Or a manufacturing defect. Or the supply fell off the FedEx truck on the way to the retailer or your house.

Is has to be another problem somewhere
No it doesn't. As I said above, everything inside your computer case depends on good, clean stable power. Electronics troubleshooting 101 is really basic. You start at the wall.

Is it plugged in?
Is it turned on?
Is it delivering good, clean, stable power?

The only way to properly and conclusively test a power supply unit (PSU) is to test it under a variety of realistic "loads" then analyze the outputs for excessive ripple and other anomalies that affect computer stability. This can only done by a qualified technician using an oscilloscope or a dedicated power supply “analyzer” - sophisticated (and expensive!) electronic test equipment requiring special training to operate, and a basic knowledge of electronics theory to understand the results. Therefore, conclusively testing a power supply is done in properly equipped electronics repair facilities.

So what can normal users do? Swap in a known good spare.

To be sure, you may be right. To me, this sounds like power problems with the motherboard. But it is my experience weird problems are often power related. And it would be sad (not to mention poor troubleshooting) if you spent money on a new motherboard or something else only to find out you still have problems because you failed to ensure the board was getting proper power first. :(

If you can borrow a PSU from another computer, it costs you nothing but a little time. And if the second supply does not fix the problem, then you know for a fact your power supply is good. And that is proper electronics troubleshooting!

Now you already said you replaced the motherboard. Did you make 200% sure you don't have an extra standoff under the board? Note that cases are designed to support 1000s of different motherboards. So, it is common for cases to have more motherboard mounting points than boards have mounting holes. And while the ATX Form Factor standard dictates where motherboard mounting holes “can” be on motherboards, it does not dictate where they “will” be. So, one board may have a mounting hole in a specific place while another may not.

A common mistake by the less experienced and distracted pros alike is to insert one or more extra standoff in the case under the motherboard. Any extra standoff creates the potential for an electrical “short” in one or more circuits. The results range from "nothing" happening (everything works perfectly) to odd "intermittent” problems to "nothing" (as in nothing works at all :(). So, you might want to verify you only inserted a standoff where there is a corresponding motherboard mounting hole.
 
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if its not the psu which could be the problem then it could be a bios error problem with both boards do you have the latest bios ? you could do a internet search to see if anyone else is getting the same.
 
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I agree with Bill. My first guess would've been motherboard but you replaced that and are still having the same issue. Next guess would be PSU or a short or something. Could try breadboarding everything outside the case with only bare minimum hardware components (one stick of RAM, use iGPU instead of the 2060, etc.) and see if that helps.
 
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Could try breadboarding everything outside the case with only bare minimum hardware components (one stick of RAM, use iGPU instead of the 2060, etc.) and see if that helps.
And since you need to pull the board to verify you don't have any extra standoffs under the board, this makes a perfect time to breadboard it too.
 
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well, this is interesting bios issue, but someone explain, how zero cpu temp is related to psu?
 
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well, this is interesting bios issue, but someone explain, how zero cpu temp is related to psu?
:( You are missing the point. PSU problems don't always manifest into clear-cut, obvious symptoms. If they did, it would be simple to test a PSU with a $10 voltmeter.

Remember - CPU temps are obtained via a "hardware" sensor and monitored through the motherboard. And there have been two motherboards. The last BIOS update is dated in July. The i7-10700K came out in Q2 of this year. MSI is not a fly-by-night mobo maker. If this was a BIOS issue, don't you think there would be 100s or even 1000s of users complaining of this?

Nobody is saying this absolutely is a PSU problem. But computers are electronics. They are no different from other electronics. Electronics, especially electronics that use high-speed digital technologies (as almost everything does these days), need good, clean, stable power to operate properly. So I say once again, proper electronics troubleshooting techniques start by verifying you are providing good, clean stable power.

Troubleshooting electronics is typically a process of elimination. So the possibility of bad/dirty power needs to be eliminated first.

Please note, I am not saying this as a hobbyist or backyard mechanic. But as a formally trained, educated, and certified electronics technician who has taught electronics troubleshooting in formal places of learning. See the link in my sig to see if I might know a little about troubleshooting electronics.
 
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If you can borrow a PSU from another computer, it costs you nothing but a little time. And if the second supply does not fix the problem, then you know for a fact your power supply is good. And that is proper electronics troubleshooting!

Now you already said you replaced the motherboard. Did you make 200% sure you don't have an extra standoff under the board? Note that cases are designed to support 1000s of different motherboards. So, it is common for cases to have more motherboard mounting points than boards have mounting holes. And while the ATX Form Factor standard dictates where motherboard mounting holes “can” be on motherboards, it does not dictate where they “will” be. So, one board may have a mounting hole in a specific place while another may not.
I have another PSU to test thats not a problem, but the thing is as I said is very hard to reproduce the issue, is not like I got it all the time, the first issue recorded on my second motherboard was after about 3 weeks , the first motherboard also somethign similar.

And no, I dont have any extra standoff under the board, in this case I installed already like 10 differents motherboards in like 6 months all of them ATX, so that im 100% sure is ok.

No What I can see is others users having the same problem , so I really thing is something related to bios and fan curve, so now I disabled the fan curve and lets see whats happens.

I apreciate you help and time, but I really dont see the PSU beeing the issue here, because I use the same PSU for all others motherbaords that I installed on my case and they dont have this issue, only this MAG Z490 (2 units)

if its not the psu which could be the problem then it could be a bios error problem with both boards do you have the latest bios ? you could do a internet search to see if anyone else is getting the same.
Yes it could be bios issue I see others users with same problem with this board, Im using the latest bios but is still bugged, Is related to fan curve I think cuz from what I see others users have fan curve enabled just like me, so Im testing now without it for see if fixed or not.
 
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2 motherboards, but how many CPUs?

(I think it’s the PSU like others and would at least pull everything out of the chassis and limit components to only those needed to see if the issue reoccurs)
 
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I have another PSU to test thats not a problem, but the thing is as I said is very hard to reproduce the issue
Intermittent problems that cannot be reproduced at will are always the most difficult to troubleshoot. It does not alter proper troubleshooting steps. If you have another PSU, what's the problem with swapping it in? Swapping out PSUs is one of the more simpler tasks.

No matter how hard you believe this is not power related, there is no way to conclusively determine that without swapping supplies. You could have known for a fact yesterday if it was power related.
And no, I dont have any extra standoff under the board, in this case I installed already like 10 differents motherboards in like 6 months all of them ATX, so that im 100% sure is ok.
Did you see the part where I said it is a common mistake by pros too? And them all being ATX means nothing. Again, the ATX standard only dictates where standoffs can be, not where they will be. It would not be surprising at all if 10 different motherboards, all ATX, had 10 different standoff configurations.

Yes it could be bios issue I see others users with same problem with this board
Oh? Got links to those other users who see 0°C with that board?
 
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@Bill_Bright

I am lost now, I do not know if you keep trying to help, or simply your intention now is to keep water and sword that you are right.

You are doubting my word now, after having told you that I have changed many motherboards in my case and nothing is wrong with the intallation, you keep trying to convince me that I may have made a mistake in a standoff or something similar.

Also asking for links from other people with the same problem, look for it boy if it really interests you.

I am not trying to convince you of anything, I am simply the one who is handling all this and as much as you mention the PSU I refuse to believe it because it works perfectly with other motherboards, and also with this motherboard, simply the fact that the fans do not spinning when issue, does not have to be that they do not receive the correct current.

Everything is starting from the bios, the simply PC boot it depend on the bios, and if somethign weird on the bios settings, the PC will just not boot at all or can give me some issues like I have.

***For example when bios show me 0ºC on CPU, in reality is because the CPU package are not detected, in HWinfo64 or aida64, I can see all the cores temperature, Also in coretemp I see all the cores temperature, only the CPU main temperature, aka package are not detected.
So this is just make it more clear that it is related to the bios.
 

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Very strange issue, my board has been absolutely trouble free since purchase in June but I am on 22 May Bios which runs everything well so have not bothered updating to the most recent yet but will get around to it at some point.
 
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I am lost now, I do not know if you keep trying to help, or simply your intention now is to keep water and sword that you are right.
I don't know if I am right. But without you swapping in a known good PSU, you don't know if you are right either!
You are doubting my word now, after having told you that I have changed many motherboards in my case and nothing is wrong with the intallation, you keep trying to convince me that I may have made a mistake in a standoff or something similar.
You stated all the boards in the last 6 months were ATX - as if that some how ensured an extra standoff could not be inserted. My point was, the fact they were ATX does not ensure that.

Also asking for links from other people with the same problem, look for it boy if it really interests you.
:( It does, boy. And I did look. Bing Google didn't find any. That's why I asked.

I am not trying to convince you of anything,
Okay. Not sure that's true but, okay. What I am sure is that you are trying to convince yourself that it could not possibly be the PSU - despite the fact you've tried two different motherboards, I'm not the only one here recommending you try another PSU, and I'll say it again, there is no way to conclusively know a PSU is good without swapping in another and see if the problems remain, or go away - well, not unless you have a decent scope or dedicated PSU analyzer and know how to test a PSU under a variety of loads with them.

But hey! It's your time. I'll not bother you anymore.
 
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Look, you said this above: "Well, "everything" is not going fine. And power supplies are required to output +12VDC, +5VDC and +3.3VDC though multiple connections."

Ok lets part from here, fans are running on 12v line if im correct, at least on PWM mode, so when issue happens, this means if the PSU fail or not deliver a clean voltage on that 12v line, all the other components that are requiered that 12v not to working at all.
And yes some of the fans that are affected by the issue are PWM.

But everything is working, GPU+CPU the entire PC is working correctly less 2 things, fans connected to the fan_header board + CPU package show me 0ºC but for each cores I still can see the temperature.

CPU+GPU that obiusly requiered 12v line I can game full load or whatever I doing and never got any shotdown or PC restart that something show me some weird happanes with PSU.

Is not that I want to convince myself, is just I dont see what you or others said because I did already all the tests that showed me the PSU its working correctly.
 
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Bios issue, as the CPU should not be reporting 0c unless extreme cooling is used.
Also, how many fans are connected to the fan header board, is it overloaded?
 
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Bios issue, as the CPU should not be reporting 0c unless extreme cooling is used.
Also, how many fans are connected to the fan header board, is it overloaded?
I think it cant be overloadad my PSU is a Corsair RM750x Gold, I have RTX 2060 so it dosent require very big amonth of power, Im sure that at this point it dosent meter how many fans I have, preaty sure I can install 10+ fans on my system and is has to work good, but I have 7 fans only, 2 on the NH-D15 and 5 installed on the case.

Thanks anyway, I think I will return this also, and I will go for Asus I give up with MSI, before this issue I had others with MSI with the internet conexion, I just give up
 

OneMoar

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O my god I swear you people are going to drive me insane
NOBODY asked what monitoring program he is using OR if the bios is configured with a factory quiet fan profile most new boards will just stop the fan completely if its running under 50c
if hes using the dragon control center he needs to uninstall it vendor control software is notoriously spotty

it sounds like hes got a misreporting or bad temp sensor or some other software on the system messing with the fan control
I don't know what the board uses for the reference temps if its the Die temps or package temps but I would check the sensors again HWmonitor or Hwinfo and make sure you don't have some other 3d party software installed messing with the fan control

trouble shooting 101 less is more test each fan header one at a time if it spins briefly at post that then header is probly ok

and no psu shorts are NOT a thing at all the psu would literally shutdown if something shorted OR it would be on fire and since its NOT on fire And running perfectly fine there is NOTHING wrong with the psu

Jesus H Christ bill go away or go back to school and take compsci 101
 
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I think it cant be overloadad my PSU is a Corsair RM750x Gold, I have RTX 2060 so it dosent require very big amonth of power, Im sure that at this point it dosent meter how many fans I have, preaty sure I can install 10+ fans on my system and is has to work good, but I have 7 fans only, 2 on the NH-D15 and 5 installed on the case.
You have five fans connected to a hub in the case?
Quantity does matter, you might be attenmpting to draw more power than the fan hub can supply.
It doesn't matter how powerful your PSU is, RTFM.
 
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You have five fans connected to a hub in the case?
Quantity does matter, you might be attenmpting to draw more power than the fan hub can supply.
It doesn't matter how powerful your PSU is, RTFM.
No, at starting all my fans was connected dirrectly to the motherboard, fan_header, than only 1 or 2 fans I had connected to HUB , so after the issue come over and over again, also with the second motherboard, I started to test others ways, so I connected all the fans to the HUB, only CPU fan is conected to CPU_FAN for dont have that anoying message on boot.

But problem still even with literraly no fans on the motherboard, so for beeing more accurate, only the CPU FAN are not spinning, since all the others fans i got them now on the HUB, so they are YES spinning when issue happens.

Since 2 motherboards give me this trouble, I will change the model and vendor.

And NO, I dont have Dragon Center installed, no otehr program, all the tweks I do them on the bios dirrectly.

Thanks all
 

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did you consider that maby the fan its self its bad ?
if its only the cpu fan
you need to slow down and do some proper trouble shooting throwing parts and stuff and returning stuff without determining what the actual fault is, likely a waste of time and money
 
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did you consider that maby the fan its self its bad ?
if its only the cpu fan
you need to slow down and do some proper trouble shooting throwing parts and stuff and returning stuff without determining what the actual fault is, likely a waste of time and money
No, if you read all you will better understand, but right now only the CPU FAN not spinning if issue happens, because is the only one connected to MB, But before when all the fans was connected to MB only 1 or 2 was on HUB, all fans from MB dosent spinning.

So in short: everything that is connected to MB dosent spin when issue happens, and everything connected to HUB works great.
 
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No, if you read all you will better understand, but right now only the CPU FAN not spinning if issue happens, because is the only one connected to MB, But before when all the fans was connected to MB only 1 or 2 was on HUB, all fans from MB dosent spinning.

So in short: everything that is connected to MB dosent spin when issue happens, and everything connected to HUB works great.
Is it possible to flash the original BIOS (13/04/2020) and try that? I ask if it's possible because I don't have any experience downgrading BIOS. I'm hesitant to conclude it's a BIOS issue though since you have this issue occurring on both the May and July BIOSes.

Echoing Bill's request, would you mind sharing the links for the others that are having the same problem? I google searched and the only relevant results are your posts on other sites (reddit, msi forums, and overclock.net) and only one of which (reddit) has reports from anyone else saying they're having the same issue.

You mention you've installed other boards in the past six months. Do you have a non-Z490 Tomahawk board you can try?
 
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