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3570K OC - performance increment

uptech

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#51
well look at S and T Models which offer lower power use, You can still overclock them to what the K Models are though
Is it worth buying a CPU that are initially weaker and would save me $15 a year on electricity bill but can be overclocked, which would both void my warranty and, since they are made differently, decrease their lifetime?
 

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#52
Is it worth buying a CPU that are initially weaker and would save me $15 a year on electricity bill but can be overclocked, which would both void my warranty and, since they are made differently, decrease their lifetime?
a lil secret they are made from the same brood, just certain models are cherry picked
 

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#53
but can be overclocked, which would both void my warranty
Let me tell you a little secret. Intel and AMD can't actually find out if you've overclocked or not unless you physical damage the chip by feeding it excessive voltage. Typical overclocks don't do anything to the CPU to "void the warranty" unless you tell them you were overclocking.
 

uptech

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#54
a lil secret they are made from the same brood, just certain models are cherry picked
And what exactly do you mean by "cherry picked?"

Let me tell you a little secret. Intel and AMD can't actually find out if you've overclocked or not unless you physical damage the chip by feeding it excessive voltage. Typical overclocks don't do anything to the CPU to "void the warranty" unless you tell them you were overclocking.
Seriously? So you mean, if I would not touch the voltages there is absolutely no way for them knowing that I have overclocked the CPU and voided the warranty? Only if I added at least 0.025v they would know that I have overclocked it?
 

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#55
And what exactly do you mean by "cherry picked?"



Seriously? So you mean, if I would not touch the voltages there is absolutely no way for them knowing that I have overclocked the CPU and voided the warranty? Only if I added at least 0.025v they would know that I have overclocked it?
no they wouldnt know if you overclocked it or not, not even if putting voltage through it.

Cherry Picked means either Certain CPUs can run on lower voltages at certain clock speeds or be able to run at very high clock speeds with minor voltage increases.
 

uptech

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#56
no they wouldnt know if you overclocked it or not, not even if putting voltage through it.

Cherry Picked means either Certain CPUs can run on lower voltages at certain clock speeds or be able to run at very high clock speeds with minor voltage increases.
So... I don't get it. How does the warranty work then, if they can't determine if it was overclocked or not?

But essentially, if I'd be overclocking them to 4.5Ghz, it'd be the same voltage increment.
 

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#57
And what exactly do you mean by "cherry picked?"



Seriously? So you mean, if I would not touch the voltages there is absolutely no way for them knowing that I have overclocked the CPU and voided the warranty? Only if I added at least 0.025v they would know that I have overclocked it?
Cherry picked means that they tested it for better silicon, even out of the same wafer. wafers get cut into many chips, but in the wafer itself chip quality is varied.



As to volting, Intel will sell you a warranty that covers that, for a very small fee.

So what we are saying is this: Go ahead and push it, we've got your back.

http://click.intel.com/tuningplan/

if you are concerned with voltages and overclocking, this warranty will cover you for that. ;)

Kinda takes all your concerns, and then flushes them down the toilet, doesn't it? :laugh:
 

uptech

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#58
Cherry picked means that they tested it for better silicon, even out of the same wafer. wafers get cut into many chips, but in the wafer itself chip quality is varied.



As to volting, Intel will sell you a warranty that covers that, for a very small fee.




http://click.intel.com/tuningplan/

if you are concerned with voltages and overclocking, this warranty will cover you for that. ;)

Kinda takes all your concerns, and then flushes them down the toilet, doesn't it? :laugh:
Actually quit the opposite. :D First I bet the vendor has to agree to provide it, which I can bet you anything won't be the case here. Second, it's extra $20, so overall it's extra $60, which is almost a new SSD, or if I'd buy a cheaper one - a new SSD.

So my need to know the performance difference is even bigger now. AND additionally, I want to know for sure if I was right on the "no 0.025v increment, no void warranty, otherwise warranty's void" statement, which would mean that I could get 3570K, and probably 3570 to probably 4+Ghz without voiding my warranty.

Which still means that it's not worth buying the K version, as the extra juice with it, on air, would give me maybe another 3% of FPS addition, and only IF I paid those extra $20, and ASSUMING that it doesn't need a confirmation with the vendor. :)
 

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#59
OK, I see what direction you are coming from now.


For no OC, then yes, I'd just go with a non-K chip. the added cost of the "T" or "S" chips is more than the power savings will give you.


For gaming, I feel the 3570k is fine with a single GPU, but add in a second, and you need to OC to get good performance, 4.4 GHz or so, and with 2600K, for example, you'd need 4.6 or so. If you play BF3, it seems to love high CPU speed. Other games are not as sensitive to CPU performance, unless you play games like Shogun2, or similar.


I test all motherboards with chips at 4.6 GHz. I have both a 3770K and a 3570k that will do those clocks. I have been running a multitude of tests since these chips launched, and you are kind of right, only certain scenarios show any benefit from OC.

That said, I'd get a "K" chip, so that in the future, should you want a bit more power, than you can increase clocks.

Non-K chip, you can only OC the multi up by 4 steps only.

In the same breath...an new FX AMD chip (fx-8350)would serve you just as well.
 

uptech

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#60
OK, I see what direction you are coming from now.


For no OC, then yes, I'd just go with a non-K chip. the added cost of the "T" or "S" chips is more than the power savings will give you.


For gaming, I feel the 3570k is fine with a single GPU, but add in a second, and you need to OC to get good performance, 4.4 GHz or so, and with 2600K, for example, you'd need 4.6 or so. If you play BF3, it seems to love high CPU speed. Other games are not as sensitive to CPU performance, unless you play games like Shogun2, or similar.


I test all motherboards with chips at 4.6 GHz. I have both a 3770K and a 3570k that will do those clocks. I have been running a multitude of tests since these chips launched, and you are kind of right, only certain scenarios show any benefit from OC.

That said, I'd get a "K" chip, so that in the future, should you want a bit more power, than you can increase clocks.

Non-K chip, you can only OC the multi up by 4 steps only.

In the same breath...an new FX AMD chip (fx-8350)would serve you just as well.
That's good to hear. :)

So anyway, for now I'm gonna use a single VGA, but in the future I MIGHT add another. But that is a VERY BIG might, so there's a 95% that I will not.

I would play all kinds of games, so yes, I would definitely play games like that, including Shogun2, Civ5, and Bf3, but I wouldn't spend anymore time on them than on any other game, like COD, UT, Dishonored, Skyrim, Max Payne 3, etc..

Okay, so if I get this right... The non-K chip can be overclocked as far as non-voltage overclocking goes, right? So that would be... 4Ghz for 3570? And the 3570K, assuming I'm overclocking it within a safe range, would go as far as 4.4-4.6Ghz on air AND in the safe voltage range.
 

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#61
Okay, so if I get this right... The non-K chip can be overclocked as far as non-voltage overclocking goes, right? So that would be... 4Ghz for 3570? And the 3570K, assuming I'm overclocking it within a safe range, would go as far as 4.4-4.6Ghz on air AND in the safe voltage range.
3570 will not hit 4 GHz.


it is default 3.4 GHz, so can only do 3.9 GHz. +4 on Turbo multi only.

So to get 4 GHz, you gotta buy the "K" chip.
 
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#63
3570 will not hit 4 GHz.


it is default 3.4 GHz, so can only do 3.9 GHz. +4 on Turbo multi only.

So to get 4 GHz, you gotta buy the "K" chip.


I think 3570 has a BCLCK and can hit 4GHz.Just no multi.
 

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#64
It's default is 3.6Ghz. 3470 is 3.4Ghz.
I have my box from 3570k in front of me. it is 3.4 ghz default, 3.5 GHz with Turbo.

see here:

3570:

http://ark.intel.com/products/65702/Intel-Core-i5-3570-Processor-6M-Cache-3_40-GHz

3570k:

http://ark.intel.com/products/65520/Intel-Core-i5-3570K-Processor-6M-Cache-up-to-3_80-GHz

I think 3570 has a BCLCK and can hit 4GHz.Just no multi.
True enough, bclk can get it up to 4 GHz. Just not multis alone.
 

uptech

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#65
Oh, sorry, my mistake. It IS 3.4Ghz. Then it'd be 3.8Ghz.

@cadaveca So with turbo, it would be 3.9Ghz.
 

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#66
Oh, sorry, my mistake. It IS 3.4Ghz. Then it'd be 3.8Ghz.
well, 3.4 GHz is without Turbo. Enable Turbo(which is enabled by default), and you get 3.5 GHz.
 
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#67
overclocking any cpu shortens the lifespan and causes instability
Yeah, the CPU will only last for 10-13 years instead of 15-20. By that time you'll be wanting an upgrade anyway. My 1999 PC is a Pentium 3 600 mhz for comparrison.
 

uptech

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#68
well, 3.4 GHz is without Turbo. Enable Turbo(which is enabled by default), and you get 3.5 GHz.
Let's do a fact checkup and let's put everything we got here into this post:

1. Okay, so 3570/3570K, no turbo, 3.4Ghz, turbo - 3.5Ghz. So we can say "it's a 3.5Ghz CPU" here.

2. Back to overclocking: I could OC 3570 to 3.9Ghz. I could OC 3570K to ~4.2Ghz with no voltage. I could OC 3570K to 4.5Ghz with little voltage.

3. Back to warranty: There is absolutely no way for anybody to know if my CPU has been overclocked if, and only if I won't increase the voltage. If I increase the voltage even by a notch, 0.025v, they would know that overclocking was the reason that it died. Basically, if I don't increase voltage and go to ~4.2Ghz, my warranty is not void. If I increase voltage, my warranty is void.

Is everything in this post correct? If not, what's wrong? If yes, please do clarify. :)
 
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#69
I don't see how Intel or AMD could tell if voltage was increased by .025v. Voltage fluxuates more than that on its own. Also, Intel chips are certified to run at a certain voltage, which is a LOT higher than what they run at. As long as you don't cross that barrier I think the voltage increase would be fine. I think the max voltage is around 1.52 - But most 24/7ers keep it under 1.3 to 1.35
 
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cadaveca

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#70
If I increase the voltage even by a notch, 0.025v, they would know that overclocking was the reason that it died. Basically, if I don't increase voltage and go to ~4.2Ghz, my warranty is not void. If I increase voltage, my warranty is void.
adjusting clocks would technically void warranty just as much as adjusting voltages. CPU is only warrantied for stock setting using stock cooling, and nothing else. That also means there is a maximum memory speed, maximum memory voltage, etc...

Is there a way for them to know? It's possible, but not likely. I think simply asking what other hardware you use says a lot though.


Most people...most people buy the "K" chip, give it a bit of voltage, and don't worry about it at all.

My 3770K, it does 4.6 GHz @ 1.2 V or less. I have given it up to 1.25 V, and no more.

My 3570K, it takes 1.35 V for 4.6 GHz, and I'm pushing 1.375 V into it now trying to get 4.7 GHz.

Both run with 2666 MHz ram. The 3570K needs IMC and VCCIO voltage boosts to get there, the 3770K does not.

When the 3570k dies, I'll be sure to be posting about it. I'll also be posting how my tuning plan warranty claim goes too, and what the replacement chip is like. For $20, it was well worth the extra cost, IMHO.
 
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#71
My 3770K, it does 4.6 GHz @ 1.2 V or less. I have given it up to 1.25 V, and no more.

My 3570K, it takes 1.35 V for 4.6 GHz, and I'm pushing 1.375 V into it now trying to get 4.7 GHz.
Dave, I never actually looked (shame on me)... what are you using for cooler(s)?
 

uptech

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#72
I don't see how Intel or AMD could tell if voltage was increased by .025v. Voltage fluxuates more than that on its own. Also, Intel chips are certified to run at a certain voltage, which is a LOT higher than what they run at. As long as you don't cross that barrier I think the voltage increase would be fine. I think the max voltage is around 1.52
I've read that you shouldn't go over 1.3v on Ivy, it's very different from Sandy. Go over that and you're getting into the dangerous zone, to quote the article. So it would be more like 0.1v. :)

adjusting clocks would technically void warranty just as much as adjusting voltages. CPU is only warrantied for stock setting using stock cooling, and nothing else. That also means there is a maximum memory speed, maximum memory voltage, etc...

Is there a way for them to know? It's possible, but not likely. I think simply asking what other hardware you use says a lot though.


Most people...most people buy the "K" chip, give it a bit of voltage, and don't worry about it at all.

My 3770K, it does 4.6 GHz @ 1.2 V or less. I have given it up to 1.25 V, and no more.

My 3570K, it takes 1.35 V for 4.6 GHz, and I'm pushing 1.375 V into it now trying to get 4.7 GHz.

Both run with 2666 MHz ram. The 3570K needs IMC and VCCIO voltage boosts to get there, the 3770K does not.

When the 3570k dies, I'll be sure to be posting about it. I'll also be posting how my tuning plan warranty claim goes too, and what the replacement chip is like. For $20, it was well worth the extra cost, IMHO.
So using a different cooler voids the warranty too. Well... I have little money, so I worry a lot about such things. I am not one of those people who worry about everything. I just worry about the things that cost money, and that I know I could not bare to damage because I couldn't afford to replace it.
 

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#73
dont worry about the warranty. To me it sounds like your unsure about alot, personally id save up more money and then take the machine to someone to build for you.
 

uptech

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#74
dont worry about the warranty. To me it sounds like your unsure about alot, personally id save up more money and then take the machine to someone to build for you.
I'm unsure only because I don't know the details. I wouldn't trust someone to build me a PC, or if he would, I'd give him 50 questions about each part to make sure that it's the part that I want there to be. Then I'd go home and spend 8 hours reading about each part. Then I'd go back to him and give him 25 questions about each part. :D

If I'd have all the concrete details, I would make my decision in seconds.
 

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#75
I'm unsure only because I don't know the details. I wouldn't trust someone to build me a PC, or if he would, I'd give him 50 questions about each part to make sure that it's the part that I want there to be. Then I'd go home and spend 8 hours reading about each part. Then I'd go back to him and give him 25 questions about each part. :D

If I'd have all the concrete details, I would make my decision in seconds.
atleast with a PC shop you wouldnt void a warranty of doing it yourself;)

Honestly youre thinking a Lil too much