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3570k overclock - games crashing

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#1
Here is my system:

ASRock Z77 Extreme4 motherboard running firmware 2.90p (adds NVMe boot capability)
Core i5 3570k with Hyper212 Evo cooler
AMD Vega 56 (Gigabyte reference model)
16 gigs Mushkin Blackline DDR3 1600 (4x4) running at stock XMP settings
ADATA XPG SX8200 Pro 1TB NVMe drive
850 watt Seasonic Focus Plus Gold PSU
Windows 10 64 bit

I have been trying to get the 3570k running stable at 4.4 ghz for quite a while now. The two games I am primarily playing right now are Destiny 2 and The Division 2, both of which experience random sporadic crashes to desktop. Sometimes there is no crash for hours to days, sometimes they crash in 5 minutes. I had flashed my Vega 56 to Vega 64 BIOS, then due to instability flashed back to the stock Vega 56 BIOS and just undervolted, now I have the card just running at the stock "Turbo" setting to eliminate that as a source of the instability.

I have Speedstep enabled in UEFI so that the CPU can drop down to 1.6 Ghz and <1 volt at idle, and I am using the additional turbo voltage feature to supply extra voltage under load. My methodology is every time I get a crash, I increase the turbo boost voltage by one step. I have done this 12-15 times, and my VCORE under a full gaming load is now approaching 1.35 volts which seems to be the point most people recommend not exceeding for Ivy Bridge. My temps while gaming are topping out at 72 degrees Celsius, but I am still experiencing crashes. The crashes are always exactly the same. In Destiny 2, the game suddenly locks up and stays on screen for a few seconds before closing, in the Division 2 the game suddenly shrinks to windowed mode and then closes.

The last time I tried a Prime95 stability test at 4.4 ghz temps shot up to 95 degrees Celsius pretty quickly (and that was before I started increasing voltage), so I can't run an extended Prime95 session. Maybe this is a sign that my thermal paste has gone bad (MX4 which I applied in 2012 when I initially built the PC, I have not had the heatsink off since then). But I figure 72 degrees C while gaming is acceptable, so I don't know about the thermal paste. I would really like to not replace it because I remember the heatsink being a pain to put on.

I guess my question is, at this point should I just accept that I'm not going to hit 4.4 ghz stability and start decreasing frequency? I see lots of posts with people claiming 4.5 ghz overclocks with 1.25v on this chip. Maybe it's just starting to die on me.
 
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#2
Not every series of same cpu are made same so just bring it down to 4.3-4.2 until you get it stable.
 
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#3
id change the thermal paste first just to see if it makes a difference. i refresh mine every 12 months.
 

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#4
Up the IMC voltage ever so slightly. You can still do this with XMP enabled. Go from 1.5 to 1.55. The IMC is adept at running two sticks of RAM at stock voltage, but not so much 4. It is a lot of extra stress on the IMC, especially with a decent cpu overclock.
 
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#5
I'd suggest a better cooler on your CPU if you are overclocking that much.
 
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#6
I don't want to fry the chip, I would like it to last until this fall. Maybe dropping down to 4.2 or 4.3 would be the safe move. I guess really I should drop it down to stock and see if the crashes stop to rule out the overclock as the instability.

Up the IMC voltage ever so slightly. You can still do this with XMP enabled. Go from 1.5 to 1.55. The IMC is adept at running two sticks of RAM at stock voltage, but not so much 4. It is a lot of extra stress on the IMC, especially with a decent cpu overclock.
Before I do this should I run something like Memtest to establish that a RAM instability issue is present?
 
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rtwjunkie

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#7
Before I do this should I run something like Memtest to establish that a RAM instability issue is present?
You can, it can't hurt. The issue with IVB chips and 4 banks of RAM being more than IMC can usually handle while overclocking is real, though.

Going to stock speed to test as you asked as well is also a good first step to rule out other factors.
 

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#8
Up the IMC voltage ever so slightly. You can still do this with XMP enabled. Go from 1.5 to 1.55. The IMC is adept at running two sticks of RAM at stock voltage, but not so much 4. It is a lot of extra stress on the IMC, especially with a decent cpu overclock.
Definitely a good angle to investigate. 4 sticks is always harder to work with and needs extra adjustments.
 
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#9
4.4 g is just a figure you have chosen.. slow it down to 4.2 and it will run fine and in real life you will not notice the difference..

trog
 
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#10
You can, it can't hurt. The issue with IVB chips and 4 banks of RAM being more than IMC can usually handle while overclocking is real, though.

Going to stock speed to test as you asked as well is also a good first step to rule out other factors.
True, I had the exact same Motherboard and CPU and issues running 4 sticks of Ram.
With 2 sticks in dual channel it ran perfectly at 4.2GHz all day, even higher if I wanted it to.
 
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#11
From my experience overclocking this CPU, I also hit a wall at 4.2 Ghz. I had to bump the vCore quite a bit to get 4.4 stable, and when I did, it was only a 2c turbo, 4c would still run at 4.2.

So you have options even with the same vcore; you can do a per-core turbo and perhaps get your 4.4 going on one or two core loads only. Beyond that, definitely investigate a slightly higher IMC voltage as you run 4 sticks of RAM. After that the only options you have is backing down the clock entirely, or increasing vcore further.

1.25V is not an extreme vcore. It is however a tipping point wrt temps, Ivy can and will get toasty if you take it much further on air. But I reckon 1.28V should be in the cards with decent case airflow and a half-decent cooler.
 

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#12
From my experience overclocking this CPU, I also hit a wall at 4.2 Ghz. I had to bump the vCore quite a bit to get 4.4 stable, and when I did, it was only a 2c turbo, 4c would still run at 4.2.
This was my experience on the chip as well. In the end, I kept it at 4.2 to keep voltage down (and this heat), as well as having all 4 cores run at that temperature.
 
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#13
Alright, I did actually downclock to 4.2 Ghz back before flashing the motherboard to 2.90p firmware and installing the NVMe drive, and as far as I can remember I don't think I was running into the crashing at that clock. Would you suggest I drop the turbo voltage back to +0.000 and start over when I drop the multiplier back to 42? No sense running a higher voltage than I have to.
 
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#14
just drop the clocks to 4.2.. leave the rest alone..

trog
 
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#15
I was never able to use my old 3570K safely at 4.4 - It hit a voltage wall after 4.3, and spiking power consumption along with instabilities.
I managed to benchmark it at 4.5, but that needed 1.49 volts, which is HUGE for those tiny finfets.

Ivy Bridge was one of the worst overclockers (with very few chips actually managing to go over 4.5), as the first generation 22nm "Tri-Gate" transistors weren't very good.
It got just a tiny better with Haswell and Broadwell, and clocks started to rise again only with Skylake (the architecture which continues today on Coffee Lake)

Drop to 4.2 as suggested, it should work fine with 1.3 volts or even less
 
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#17
Ah, and don't forget Ivy is the first generation when Intel started using toothpaste between the die and heatspreader on the consumer chips.
Sandy before it was soldered, combined with planar architecture.... is why people managed to get it to those insane 4.9-5.0 speeds.

If you don't really care about your chip anymore (since it's already old), you may try to delid it and put some MX4 inside as well (or liquid metal if you feel brave).
Expect at least 20 degrees less in Prime95 with LM.
 
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#18
95C in prime95 dosnt matter a jot.. nothing else will take the temps up there...

trog
 
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#19
I've had 4 3570Ks(still have one of them). ALL of them did between 4.7-5.0 fully stable with no more than 1.52V(usually quite a bit less, but 1.52V is fully safe for 24/7 on IVB in my and Intel's opinion). I don't even believe in such a thing as an IVBK that won't do at least 4.6. I've had 2 3770Ks(still have one of those too) as well. One did 4.8 w/ 1.49V, the other does 5.0 w/ 1.46V.
I was never able to use my old 3570K safely at 4.4 - It hit a voltage wall after 4.3, and spiking power consumption along with instabilities.
I managed to benchmark it at 4.5, but that needed 1.49 volts, which is HUGE for those tiny finfets.

Ivy Bridge was one of the worst overclockers (with very few chips actually managing to go over 4.5), as the first generation 22nm "Tri-Gate" transistors weren't very good.
It got just a tiny better with Haswell and Broadwell, and clocks started to rise again only with Ivy Bridge (the architecture which continues today on Coffee Lake)
Bullshit. All of it. Especially the Haswell and Broadwell nonsense. Neither OC anywhere near as good as, and run WAY hotter than, IVB. I've got a 3770K that will run some benches @ 5.4, and runs @ 5.0 24/7 with 1.46V, on water. And I ran one of my 3570Ks @ 4.8 w/ 1.49V for several years without issues(never degraded even a tiny bit). So...1.49V is nothing...let alone HUGE. Totally safe. Like I said...up to at least 1.52V. I run benches all the time with my 3570K and 3770K with up to 1.73V. And I've occasionally pushed them past 1.8V. I had a 3570K that survived many benches with more than 1.9V. Never hurt a one of them in the least(except the 2 I killed...see below)
Ah, and don't forget Ivy is the first generation when Intel started using toothpaste between the die and heatspreader on the consumer chips.

If you don't really care about your chip anymore (since it's already old), you may try to delid it and put some MX4 inside as well (or liquid metal if you feel brave).
Bullshit again...sorry...

1. They didn't start soldering their chips until Prescott, so far as I'm aware(I've got a handful of delidded Northwood's and Prescotts for proof of that). All chips previous to Prescott had paste, to the best of my knowledge. IOW...Ivy was MOST CERTAINLY NOT the first generation to use "toothpaste".

2. If you are going to delid and use paste you are wasting your time. Liquid metal or don't even bother.

Since I know you'll probably ask. Yes. I've killed 2 of my IVBKs with voltage. My first 3570K took something like 2.2V to fry it(instantly). My first 3770K took around 1.83V to kill it(while running Geekbench 3 @ something like 5.1GHz or higher...I don't remember for sure).
 
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#20
and clocks started to rise again only with Ivy Bridge (the architecture which continues today on Coffee Lake)
You meant to say Sky Lake hopefully otherwise does not compute.

Bullshit. All of it. Especially the Haswell and Broadwell nonsense. Neither OC anywhere near as good as, and run WAY hotter than, IVB. I've got a 3770K that will run some benches @ 5.4, and runs @ 5.0 24/7 with 1.46V, on water. And I ran one of my 3570Ks @ 4.8 w/ 1.49V for several years without issues(never degraded even a tiny bit). So...1.49V is nothing...let alone HUGE. Totally safe. Like I said...up to at least 1.52V. I run benches all the time with my 3570K and 3770K with up to 1.73V. And I've occasionally pushed them past 1.8V. I had a 3570K that survived many benches with more than 1.9V. Never hurt a one of them in the least(except the 2 I killed...see below)
Bullshit indeed, thanks goes to Intel for iVR starting with Haswell. As if moving from solder for TIM wasn't enough with Ivy they had to move VR to on die starting with Haswell. I still say good riddance to my 4790Ks hot temperatures.
 
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#21
I still say good riddance to my 4790Ks hot temperatures
I must have an awesome 4790k. It runs cool as a cucumber. Unlike Mr Genius’ assertion, it runs cooler with the same heat sink than my 3770k did.
 
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#22
Normal good oc for an ivy is 4.3. Normal good oc for a sandy is 4.7. Both same arch. 3d transistors slowed down ivy for oc. It's why I stuck with sandy.
He's already hit his oc wall... it's done.
 
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#23
Ivy Bridge was one of the worst overclockers (with very few chips actually managing to go over 4.5), as the first generation 22nm "Tri-Gate" transistors weren't very good.
It got just a tiny better with Haswell and Broadwell, and clocks started to rise again only with Ivy Bridge (the architecture which continues today on Coffee Lake)
Broadwell is intel's first-gen 14nm, and it has largely the same issue. Also I assume you mean Skylake lol?

Normal good oc for an ivy is 4.3. Normal good oc for a sandy is 4.7. Both same arch. 3d transistors slowed down ivy for oc. It's why I stuck with sandy.
He's already hit his oc wall... it's done.
My friend's 24/7 OC on his 4930K was 4.6 @ 1.25V, but he could crank it to 4.7 and benched it even at 4.9. Custom water loop, no exotic cooling. I guess he got a good chip?

I've had 4 3570Ks(still have one of them). ALL of them did between 4.7-5.0 fully stable with no more than 1.52V(usually quite a bit less, but 1.52V is fully safe for 24/7 on IVB in my and Intel's opinion). I don't even believe in such a thing as an IVBK that won't do at least 4.6. I've had 2 3770Ks(still have one of those too) as well. One did 4.8 w/ 1.49V, the other does 5.0 w/ 1.46V.
Bullshit. All of it. Especially the Haswell and Broadwell nonsense. Neither OC anywhere near as good as, and run WAY hotter than, IVB. I've got a 3770K that will run some benches @ 5.4, and runs @ 5.0 24/7 with 1.46V, on water. And I ran one of my 3570Ks @ 4.8 w/ 1.49V for several years without issues(never degraded even a tiny bit). So...1.49V is nothing...let alone HUGE. Totally safe. Like I said...up to at least 1.52V. I run benches all the time with my 3570K and 3770K with up to 1.73V. And I've occasionally pushed them past 1.8V. I had a 3570K that survived many benches with more than 1.9V. Never hurt a one of them in the least(except the 2 I killed...see below)
Bullshit again...sorry...

1. They didn't start soldering their chips until Prescott, so far as I'm aware(I've got a handful of delidded Northwood's and Prescotts for proof of that). All chips previous to Prescott had paste, to the best of my knowledge. IOW...Ivy was MOST CERTAINLY NOT the first generation to use "toothpaste".

2. If you are going to delid and use paste you are wasting your time. Liquid metal or don't even bother.

Since I know you'll probably ask. Yes. I've killed 2 of my IVBKs with voltage. My first 3570K took something like 2.2V to fry it(instantly). My first 3770K took around 1.83V to kill it(while running Geekbench 3 @ something like 5.1GHz or higher...I don't remember for sure).
You're a madman! :fear:lol

I just wanna say that most chips will OC like that if you dump that much voltage into them. Sorry but 1.5V+ is just ridiculous and really can't be considered a normal overclock. IDK what cooling you're using but electromigration on transistors is going to happen if those chips are getting anywhere north of, like, 70C for prolonged periods of time. Physics is a bitch. Intel state 1.52 is the 'Max' voltage, not the 'max safe voltage', so no, it is absolutely not safe for 24/7 unless you keep the CPU extremely cool or are not putting lots of current through it. I killed my 2600K by running Prime95 overnight at 1.48V and 5.1 GHz... But anecdotal evidence is anedcotal ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I must have an awesome 4790k. It runs cool as a cucumber. Unlike Mr Genius’ assertion, it runs cooler with the same heat sink than my 3770k did.
Devil's canyon was pretty good. They improved the paste a lot under the IHS, my 4790K was 4.6 all day long on air and never overheated unless i ran P95 with FMA3
 
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#24
You meant to say Sky Lake hopefully otherwise does not compute.
Broadwell is intel's first-gen 14nm, and it has largely the same issue. Also I assume you mean Skylake lol?
Yes indeed. Oops.
It was very late night and tired... thinking one and typing something else.

I've had 4 3570Ks(still have one of them). ALL of them did between 4.7-5.0 fully stable with no more than 1.52V
...
I run benches all the time with my 3570K and 3770K with up to 1.73V
...
My first 3770K took around 1.83V to kill it
You're a murderer of golden-sample chips.
You're a madman! :fear:lol
Usually murderers are madmen, yes. :kookoo:

I never "fried" a chip in my life, always used safe(ish) voltages, with small exceptions and VERY short periods of time, just to see if it makes any difference.
All overclocking sessions were done in such a way that I would still have the chip after trying my best, and indeed, even chips which I tested a tiny bit beyond the safe voltages... still run today.
 

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#25
damnit i had this and solved it in years gone by, when i had my 3770k
I had an asrock board too, so the settings/fix are probably the same
pretty sure it was twofold:

1. be 100% confident of your ram stability, most of my crash to desktop errors were ram OC related (i had 2400Mhz ram)

2. Check the extra voltages and CPU related settings on the board. Pretty sure it was System agent voltage and one of the CPU idle settings (not all of them, just one... C6?) that did it for me. Since i used the same board for 2500k, this let me run my 2500k @ 5.1Ghz and 3770k around 4.8Ghz... the precise info may be lurking in old posts on this forum somewhere, i spent ages tweaking til i found the right settings
 
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