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5.1/7.1 Gaming head sets

Anisotonic

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what do you mean by "cop" the turtle beaches? do you mean buy them? what's so special about them?

I think he was kidding, those are xbox stereo headphones. The surround PC model is the HPA2 or the AkR8.

BTW kursah DT880s are meant for music production and have a flat frequency response, so they're not supposed to be heavy on bass, but I'll say that the 600ohm version driven on decent amp is no featherweight at all on the low freq department.
 

k0rn_h0li0

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yeah i was kidding. find plenty of that stuff around. dont blow out your earDRUMS
 
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Sorry to hijack the thread, but does anyone tried these Zalman ZM-RS6F.

i've been looking at them but the only problem is that they're USB instead of 3.5mm jacks. I'd really like to buy them but thats the only draw back which really annoys me.

They are completely analogical and contain a total of 6 speakers, 3 jack connection, no USB and no internal sound card.
 

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I'm on about the G35's, not those Zalman ones.
 
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It is quite idiotic in my opinion to get a set of 5.1 headphones unless you using it with a game that fully supports 5.1 audio, and even then it is not much better than a normal 2 channel set of quality headphones.

Take for instance the Zalman 5.1s yes it has a lot of drivers, but because they are not up to anything you actually miss a lot of spacial sound clues in games making it harder to judge from where the enemies are coming in FPS games.

In 99% of games you are much better of getting a quality headphone because the positional effects are easier to hear due to the fact that the two drivers provide a much higher sound quality than the 8 drivers in the 5.1 sets. Another problem is that most of the 5.1 headphones are poorly dampened which means that you get a problem with reverberations clouding the sound.
 

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I can find out exactly where some one was with my medusa 5.1's heck i even tracked him down when he was up a hill. done that to about 4 people in ArmA 2. So imho, i definatly prefer 5.1 headphones to 2.1 because i dont have to turn around to hear something thats coming behind me, or even to to the left or right.
 

Anisotonic

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It is quite idiotic in my opinion to get a set of 5.1 headphones unless you using it with a game that fully supports 5.1 audio, and even then it is not much better than a normal 2 channel set of quality headphones.

Take for instance the Zalman 5.1s yes it has a lot of drivers, but because they are not up to anything you actually miss a lot of spacial sound clues in games making it harder to judge from where the enemies are coming in FPS games.

In 99% of games you are much better of getting a quality headphone because the positional effects are easier to hear due to the fact that the two drivers provide a much higher sound quality than the 8 drivers in the 5.1 sets. Another problem is that most of the 5.1 headphones are poorly dampened which means that you get a problem with reverberations clouding the sound.

You have strictly no idea what you are talking about. "Games that fully support 5.1?" WOW are those out yet? Come on. It is quite idiotic in my opinion to judge surround sets when you only have tried the Zalmans, that would be like judging cars when you only drove a Lada. 99% you say? Your post is 100% bullshit. I'm sorry but disinformators like you are the reason why the surround can market doesn't take off like it should. That you're happy with 70 years old directional sound technology doesn't mean it's the case for everyone.
 
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You have strictly no idea what you are talking about. "Games that fully support 5.1?" WOW are those out yet? Come on. It is quite idiotic in my opinion to judge surround sets when you only have tried the Zalmans, that would be like judging cars when you only drove a Lada. 99% you say? Your post is 100% bullshit. I'm sorry but disinformators like you are the reason why the surround can market doesn't take off like it should. That you're happy with 70 years old directional sound technology doesn't mean it's the case for everyone.

Where does it state that I only tried the Zalman 5.1s?

Just to clarify I have tried the following 5.1 headsets: Turtle Beach HPA2, Zalman 5.1 RS6-F with and without the USB sound card, Razer Barracuda, and the Speed-Link Medusa headset.

And when I am talking about fully supporting it I mean in the sense that the ambiance noise and in game noise mix is good with for surround. Which it is on a lot of new games, it is not perfect in CS:S (and all most of the games vavle make based upon that engine), but close. Some of the best I have heard was actually racing games, perhaps it has a higher priority there with the developers.

Surround sound in a headphone is quite hard to get to function well you have inherent problems with phase coherency, vibrations causing interference and reverb. All of those things are much easier to manage in a normal headphone design.
 
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I just bought the Plantronics 367 Stereo Headset and have been researching on a multichannel headset too.
The Razor has some pretty ugly reviews over @ Newegg. The G35 most are saying is the best, not overly large and good quality with a few extras. The only complaint that a few people have is that the volume doesn't get too loud and that's apparently a software, not hardware, problem and Logitech is working on it. I haven't seen the ROCCAT Kave, but they look like a good alternate choice. I too wanted to avoid USB, but it looks like something that's pretty hard to do @ this level.
Trittons are the only other possible choice I've found that have jacks, but people complain of bulk and need to connect to power. Have a look: Home, Newegg.

I'd also like to see what the best option is in all these.
 

Kursah

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I've tried the LBT Magnum 5.1's, Turtle Beach HPA2 5.1's for true 5.1 headsets, and the plantronics 777 emulated, and a few others that aren't worth mentioning from Razor (lower quality HPA2), etc. What I found out of those was the HPA2 was the clear winner, bang for the buck, a lotta bass, not much for soundstage though. What I thought was a decent soundstage was wiped out by a larger and better set of $33 headphones unamped compared to the amplified 5.1 headphones. Not saying the HPA2's are crap, they're quite the contrary, but overall, now I realize my money could've been much better spent elsewhere and I could've saved a lot and filled my fuel tank twice without regretting any sound output from my PC wether it be from games, movies or music...simple as that.

The amp on the HPA2 is nice, but in all honesty it is quite weak and well, not uber quality. If it were, the headset would cost much, much more than it currently does. Though it's the easiest way to 5.1, and has 4 speakers per cup, the 30mm sub doesn't match the single driver of the 50mm JVC HA-RX700...argue all you want, until you try a set, all you can do is argue. It might take a tad more EQ and a little bass boost, but in the end, it can provide a lot more than any gaming headset I've heard in the sub-$100 range.

Here's some things I've learned along the way, soundstage is extremely important...though if you're a basshead, which seems to mean, do you like bass or don'tcha? If you don't mind a lack of hit, but a presence of sound, then get something like the AudioTechnica AD-700/AD-900 as it seems on many places they're amazing for gaming due to a vast soundstage, great mids/hi's, but bass-wise due to the open backed nature, lack a lot of bass due to sound leakage...which also means sounds externally of the headphones will leak in more easily.

Now if you're like me, I don't generally consider myself a heavy basshead, but none-the-less I love the impact as much as the sound ouptut, and sometimes I want all I can handle...I'm a basshead. It's simple as that, a decent closed-back headphone is where it's at. Though it can vary from headphone part number and brand, there are many that will suit the needs of many. A place like head-fi.org might over-exagerate small discrepencies, so start off cheaper. The JVC HA-RX700's are the perfect fit for that bill, a great closed-back for very cheap that need little to no amplification for a pretty solid sound ouput. Again, I'll mention I've spent YEARS on the Turtle Beach HPA2's, I know what both versions are capable of (version 1 = wall plug powered, version 2 = usb plug powered + more bass). The conclusion I've come to is it's much cheaper and much, much better overall to have a set of headphones plus a decent mic (like the HPA2 mic: http://www.turtlebeach.com/products/efhpa2/replacementparts.aspx ).

If you have a decent sound card that is, I have tried thise on the stock ALC885 and AD2000 MB sound on my GB P35-DS3L and Asus P5Q-Deluxe boards, the X-Fi Xtreme Music stomped them both into the ground without any chance in hell of either being even close to similar quality imho. The seperation, overall stage, freqency, adjustability, etc was just so much better and clearer on the x-fi it wasn't funny. Then I go from the X-Fi Xtreme Music to the newer Auzen X-Fi Forte, with the dedicated headphone amplifier, and......wow. I can't believe the difference, the seperation is so much better, the mids and hi's are more easily found with little to no EQ balance compared to the older x-fi, the bass is also more easily found with no boost and some EQ adjustment, it's great.

Not dogging 5.1 headsets, but at this rate, they need to re-think a few things, like cup size and placement. The LTB Magnums had a larger cup, smaller center and rear drivers, and did have better placement, but overall sounded very isolated and muffled, crap quality and randome cutouts lead to a worthless headset along with a very crappy mic (no boom, just a mic built into the lh ear cup, it would pick up the neighbors random sbd fart quite easily...was really, really bad for TS, etc).

I've tried a few different 5.1 true headsets and emulated 5.1/7.1's, what impressed me most was the emulated version's ability to sound better...not necessarily quality-wise, but actual placement and distance wise. That can be HUGE in FPS games.

Now I have tried the HPA2's in 2.1 and headphone mode, many might not be aware, but in that case the amp still drives the front and sub channels, it's part of their design, but even as an open back headphone, they sounded so isolated and closed that distance is almost non-existant in comparison to a cheap set of JVC headphones...and that's no joke. Not that I'm poking the bear, just pointing out what I noticed with my ears, money, dedication and time. If I believe in it, I share it here on TPU, if you don't believe it, look at my history of posts. I've posted some links as I was in the same position as the OP a few weeks ago (see on page 2 iirc, I posted a link to a thread titled "Considering a new headset".). I loved my HPA2's, believed that they were by far the best I could do under $100 in 5.1 or less...boy was I wrong...by a lot, and then some. There's no competition, the JVC HA-RX700 + 9ft of 3.5mm cable extension for mic + 2 zip small zip ties + TB HPA2 Non-Lock Mic > Turtle Beach HPA2. Even w/o any settings messed with I enjoy the sound extracted from the JVC's over the HPA2's. Sure the amp is easy to tune, and it's really very, very nice having an external master volume control...now I realize it's not a massive REQUIREMENT. I had to learn this from experience though and almost spent $80 for the Creative X-Fi Titanium FP...which I still may get as the Auzen has the dedicated amp for front and rear and has a higher db output for the FP channels. But for now I'm so happy I could care less...my fiance took over my HPA2's and instead of spending $80+ on another set, I spent less than $45 total for the JVC's, some 3.5mm cable and an HPA2 mic.

The trick is to go to control panel, then Sound, set the primary sound ouptut to 5.1 channels. Then set the sound card (X-FI at least) to headphone or 2.1 mode ( I prefer headhpone mode), and cmms-3d. I did this on the HPA2 and noticed that in just headphone mode I had similar placement to 5.1, not quite as good though. On the JVC's, it opened up a whole new world..look at my 2nd or 3rd post in this thread, the cups on the JVC's are easily twice as large as the HPA2 cups...with 3 less speakers per cup, plus a larger speaker than any of the ones provided in the turtle beaches and from the sound ouptut, seems much better quality and thought. I have less ound leakage in and out, so I can listen at lower volumes without hinder, issues, annoyances, so less ear-drum damage. Plus when configured like I stated above for game mode, it equals very simlar placement of sounds with much better distance...I can actually tell when I have a more serious threat that needs attended to now...something the HPA2's only hinted at, but due to design, size and quality was much more limited. I love the HPA2's still, and if you must, must, must have a cheap and true 5.1 headset that is the way to go...if you can afford more, play much, much more for the A40's, if not, have a decent sound card with either X-Fi CMMS3D or Dolby Headphone and a decent set of cans. Not saying my $33 set of JVC's are even decent, but compared to the HPA2's in music and games, they're easily worth much more. I'm not an audiophile, but I'm a fan of decent sound and good value. That's where my recommendations come from and why I post them, I look forward to helping others achieve something as good or better than I have for the same or less on the fundage side while still being able to be very content with their purchase. There's a wide world for sound out there, and the HPA2's have made a good dent, but in my opinion vs. an X-Fi and JVC HA-RX700, that candle is easily blown out and forgotten about...this coming from a guy used to years of 5.1 headsets with an X-Fi. But also remember, it comes down to the listeners ears and what they expect, listen for and want to hear, what I hear may not be what you want to hear, what Frederik S or Anisotonic wants to hear might not be what you want to hear, in the end that's what sucks in this arena, it can be so different and variated it's almost rediculous. Though I can easily vouch a decent sound card, amped or not will treat you better than onboard for gaming, music and movies, the headphone vs headset movement will continue on here and away. I used to vouch that headsets had a strong value, and they do...for those that are either too lazy or don't wanna deal with adding a mic, go for it...but at the cost of sound, sound stage and sound quality in general...unless you pay much, much, much more...is it really worth the hassle of a headphone + mic (even the clip-on Zalman mic)? Most that have gone that route after headsets will say yes without hesitation. You get more for your buck, something that will last longer, get the job done better, and be something you might be more content with for a while longer or even just flat out last longer. Headsets are here to stay, but headphones are going nowhere in the gaming industry...all I can see truly happening is more good headphones being converted to headsets...but at what cost? Will it be worth it over a couple of zip ties to you? If you're not picky on sound, Plantronics, Logitech, Creative, etc will do very well and even put out great sound and have some solid performers...but at the price those solld performers retail at, so much more can be found for if you go for it a different way, imho it's worth it.

:toast:
 
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wow Kursah, that's quite a novel u wrote there!;)
You must be very passionate about what get a spot by your ears...
 
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I have known of 3 great 5.1 headsets :

1. Razer Barracuda
2. Tritton 5.1 AX Pro
3. Turtle beach headsets
 

Kursah

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wow Kursah, that's quite a novel u wrote there!;)
You must be very passionate about what get a spot by your ears...

I have a habit of doing that, I just have a problem with letting something go that I find as a better value or something new learned that others could benefit from too. I believe in the HPA2's, but at the same time I believe they're easily beaten by a decent sound card (which I already had), cheap headphones, and the same mic. Emulation doesn't suck on all headphones otherwise many "claimed" headsets wouldn't use it for 5.1-7.1, take the new G35's...totally emulated, yet many like them. Hell the op is considering them, why not get similar emulation for cheaper using the same sound card and a mic that is just as good for less than half the newegg price?

Check my Overclocking is Easy! Get results! thread/article for the longest post I've accomplished, but I do have many long posts...seems I take the long road to getting to the point, especially in topics I feel strongly of.

:toast:

I have known of 3 great 5.1 headsets :

1. Razer Barracuda = Lesser Quality Turtle Beach HPA2's with a lesser quality amp from what I've heard/read. Look at them, look at the amp, they're extremely similar, and some have claimed they must be built in the same factory with the exception the Razor set uses a lesser amp and cheaper build quality, yet they're more expensive. I can say a buddy of mine that had them went to HPA2, claimed they fit the same, yet the HPA2's sounded much better and he still has them. Though some newer Razer headests seem to be quite solid, the Barracuda's have too many complaints overall.

2. Tritton 5.1 AX Pro = overhyped
3. Turtle beach headsets = see #1

Now the A40's are in a different league, even impressing some "audiophiles", but if you honestly wanna spend over $240 for good gaming sound, then get the A40 Full Audio kit..with mixamp and headset. Otherwise I'm sold that headphones can pretty easily strike down 5.1 headsets.

:toast:
 
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Kursah

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I honestly never heard about the tritton headphones and when I bought them they were REALLY REALLY good do you honestly think they were overhyped? explain


keep in mind I didnt get the 150$ one

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16826235007

I actually like the newer, cheaper versions better, they seem to be more favorable overall. The problem many had with the earlier tritons from what I read was either a dependability issue or the sound output itself (though this can greatly depend upon the source if using an older onboard sound ouptut compared to a newer dedicated soudn card).

Many seem to like them, but what got me was reading soooo much about how many people who took a chance on a decent set of headphones in the sub $100 range near or less than what they paid for the 5.1 experience only to be suprised at how good the headphones were over the headest. Not saying this is always fact though, but a lot of reading up I did on the tritons showed that the value in the long run wasn't there over the HPA2's, leading me to purchase the HPA2's in the choice factor a long time ago. Though, the ones your using look pretty good and rate quite well overall, it doesn't mean they're crap, and many that buy them like them, and many that replace them with a set of headphones won't go back to them or any other headset afterwards. Doesn't mean headsets are bad, just means you pay more for the fact of an integrated mic and possibly an amp, sometimes surround emulation, etc. My biggest question now is, are those Trittons REALLY worth the money if a cheaper headphone and (if the user has) an X-Fi can perform similar tasks? It all depends on applications, requirements, personal preferences and research. I spend probably what is considered a rediculous amount of time researching, but I do so for the fact when I invest in something whether it's a new CPU, GPU, Ram, MB, Case, mouse, keyboard, monitor, speakers, headphones, soundcard, car, truck, house, etc, I do my best to be as educated as possible to make the best out of the money I have at the time. Doesn't mean I get the "best" deals for all, but I get the best deals for myself and voice that out if it's truly something worth looking into.

I wish I could say I miss gaming headphones, I really do...I just can't, honestly can't. I've had many from low-end to higher-end (I consider the HPA2's to be in the mid-high to higher-end on the headset range) over the years...and how I could spend around $45 on a headphone and mic and be blown away is something I can't speak quietly about. Especially in a community like TPU, I try to share as much as I learn, I just hope I display it in a correct fashion.

:toast:
 
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i've been looking at them but the only problem is that they're USB instead of 3.5mm jacks. I'd really like to buy them but thats the only draw back which really annoys me.

Why do you not want USB? I changed over to USB about 6 months ago and it works great. I don't even bother plugging the front panel HD audio into the mobo anymore - was in a horrible place anyway.
 
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Ok, it seems I was a bit thrown off by the ultra-vague statements of Logitech ("7.1 surround sound powered by Dolby® technology"). It should at least just say surround sound, not give you the number of channels that suggests there are actual speaks!:mad: So lets get this clear please, just how many of the headsets are actual 7.1, actual 5.1, stereo/other with emulation.:confused:
Remember, not all of us have sound cards, such as myself that expect to be on onboard for the foreseeable future, maybe even permanently, so those of us wouldn't want anything with less than the actual number of speakers that we want.

Isn't it sickening how all the companies all say "we have the best", etc when they are not?:shadedshu
Some sort of rule should be put in place to force companies to be honest about the standing of their products.:mad:
 
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TechnicalFreak

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I have the Razer Megalodon (won them) and they work perfectly.
 
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Kursah

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I'm pretty sure the Cyber Snipa 5.1's are true 5.1's too, but I've also heard the Razer Megalodon's use 7.1 emulation just like the Logitech G35 and Plantronics 777. Though the Razer is supposed to be utilizing some newer technology that is supposed to be sweetness. But looking at the control unit and description it's kinda tough to tell if it is or isn't. I dunno if a true 7.1 in a headset would be worth it overall, I just can't see it working out as well as my experience with 5.1.

Technical can you verify if the Megalodon is 2.1 or 7.1 speaker-wise in each cup?
 

Kursah

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Yeah that's what I was finding too...it's just odd in razer's description as they add level adjustment for each virtual speaker, which I suppose is kind of cool. I'd like to give them a spin and see how they compare to the Plantronics 777's in that realm for sure. Not for $150 though! I'll stick with my $30 JVC's thank you very much! :D
 
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I actually like the newer, cheaper versions better, they seem to be more favorable overall. The problem many had with the earlier tritons from what I read was either a dependability issue or the sound output itself (though this can greatly depend upon the source if using an older onboard sound ouptut compared to a newer dedicated soudn card).

Many seem to like them, but what got me was reading soooo much about how many people who took a chance on a decent set of headphones in the sub $100 range near or less than what they paid for the 5.1 experience only to be suprised at how good the headphones were over the headest. Not saying this is always fact though, but a lot of reading up I did on the tritons showed that the value in the long run wasn't there over the HPA2's, leading me to purchase the HPA2's in the choice factor a long time ago. Though, the ones your using look pretty good and rate quite well overall, it doesn't mean they're crap, and many that buy them like them, and many that replace them with a set of headphones won't go back to them or any other headset afterwards. Doesn't mean headsets are bad, just means you pay more for the fact of an integrated mic and possibly an amp, sometimes surround emulation, etc. My biggest question now is, are those Trittons REALLY worth the money if a cheaper headphone and (if the user has) an X-Fi can perform similar tasks? It all depends on applications, requirements, personal preferences and research. I spend probably what is considered a rediculous amount of time researching, but I do so for the fact when I invest in something whether it's a new CPU, GPU, Ram, MB, Case, mouse, keyboard, monitor, speakers, headphones, soundcard, car, truck, house, etc, I do my best to be as educated as possible to make the best out of the money I have at the time. Doesn't mean I get the "best" deals for all, but I get the best deals for myself and voice that out if it's truly something worth looking into.

I wish I could say I miss gaming headphones, I really do...I just can't, honestly can't. I've had many from low-end to higher-end (I consider the HPA2's to be in the mid-high to higher-end on the headset range) over the years...and how I could spend around $45 on a headphone and mic and be blown away is something I can't speak quietly about. Especially in a community like TPU, I try to share as much as I learn, I just hope I display it in a correct fashion.

:toast:

I got the headset cause I got so used to headsets covering my ears and when I had the razer piranhas they were so tight and didnt cover my hears just pressed them to my head and it hurt so headphone styles like that I dont like but like the trittons or the barracudas are most comfortable for me. so not only was I paying for the quality but also comfort because in my opinion if your comfortable with something the better you'll play. other than that I completely agree with you
 
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Yeah that's what I was finding too...it's just odd in razer's description as they add level adjustment for each virtual speaker, which I suppose is kind of cool. I'd like to give them a spin and see how they compare to the Plantronics 777's in that realm for sure. Not for $150 though! I'll stick with my $30 JVC's thank you very much! :D

How do I give them a spin? hold them by the cable and swirl them around? ;)
 
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Well I updated the list. I have a magazine with 4 different headphones reviewed, with only the Cyber Snypa Sonar 5.1 being a 5.1 and the rest being 7.1.
Unfortunately I'm not at home and the mag is. When I get home next week and get those names, I'll let you guys know immediately (unfortunately I can't get the online version). Unfortunately though, the one rated as best I gave no attention to because it was in the R2500 (~$250) range which is CRAZY! Well maybe things have changed.
 
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