650VA UPS runs hot

[Jism]

I have a generic 650VA UPS hooked up behind my computer, screen and using the NIC interface to prevent any spikes and all that. Thing works fine. Can hold my computer for over 8 minutes or so. However, when it's idle, i noted that the transformer is getting around 60 to 70 degrees mark. The thing has no active cooling and more like fins in between the plastic. The screws holding the transformer are just as hot and barely good to touch.

The thing itself however, runs fine. It is only a week old. Is this something to worry about?

 

[DeathtoGnomes]

I have a generic 650VA UPS hooked up behind my computer, screen and using the NIC interface to prevent any spikes and all that. Thing works fine. Can hold my computer for over 8 minutes or so. However, when it's idle, i noted that the transformer is getting around 60 to 70 degrees mark. The thing has no active cooling and more like fins in between the plastic. The screws holding the transformer are just as hot and barely good to touch.

The thing itself however, runs fine. It is only a week old. Is this something to worry about?

with winter coming, i'd say not yet.

 

[eidairaman1]

Generic, send it back

 

[Jism]

Good point. But the winters here usually dont reach anything belong 0 degrees or so.

I know transformers shoudnt run into oblivioun related to temps. At zero load it should be having zero thermals i think. Or the UPS has a very bad efficiency and is burning electricity it's not using.

 

[R-T-B]

What brand generic?

If truly no name, yeah, it's probably a fire hazard. If it has a name of any kind though we can at least look it up.

 

[newtekie1]

Good point. But the winters here usually dont reach anything belong 0 degrees or so.

I know transformers shoudnt run into oblivioun related to temps. At zero load it should be having zero thermals i think. Or the UPS has a very bad efficiency and is burning electricity it's not using.

It is going to depend on how the UPS is designed. Some use the transformer in the charge circuit for the battery. So it will put out some heat even with no load.

 

[Jism]

What brand generic?

If truly no name, yeah, it's probably a fire hazard. If it has a name of any kind though we can at least look it up.

Eurotech ups 650va. 390W constant load UPS basicly. It has a set of fuses (3x) and it even remotely ran a glue gun for over 45 minutes (15W) or so.

 

[R-T-B]

Eurotech ups 650va. 390W constant load UPS basicly. It has a set of fuses (3x) and it even remotely ran a glue gun for over 45 minutes (15W) or so.

Hmmm... I think that brand is less offshoot than it may first appear. I've heard the name somewhere before, at least. Let me see what I can find on them. Will post back after thanksgiving here (today), lol

 

[Jism]

They wont be selling UPS's obviously that are know to cause fires. Or at least a product thats know to being faulty. They should suffice for most common household use.

You could even use it as a cheap 12V > 220V inverter if wanted.

 

[R-T-B]

They wont be selling UPS's obviously that are know to cause fires. Or at least a product thats know to being faulty. They should suffice for most common household use.

You could even use it as a cheap 12V > 220V inverter if wanted.

Yeah, Indian UPS maker is what I can dig up. Basic units with little digital functionality but serviceable enough.

My bet is re heat: It's good for how long the battery lasts and not much more. Thus no battery upgrading or anything, but should work as advertised fine (unless of course, defective)

 

[Jism]

I used it to charge, my car battery of 75ah over 20 hours, lol. And it worked perfectly fine. The battery is a 7A 12V lithium thing, just the usual. The UPS has 2x 30A fuses for proberly the 12V line, and one main 220v fuse at the back of the unit.

 

[Grog6]

70F or 70C?

80F is no problem, 80C is a major problem.

It's probably too small for the load.

Most good ups's are running full time, so they take over when the line voltage dies; so the full computer load is running thru the transformer and the inverter circuit, and a bit for the battery charging.

 

[Jism]

Sometimes the UPS kicks in when there's even a one second powerdip going on in the house. I'm not sure why but usually around 03:00AM the power just drops for a tiny second leaving TV and everything else off after that. it's the reason why i bought it in the first place. I had days where i would lost my work completely after leaving the computer alone. So it's doing its job.

 

[R-T-B]

I used it to charge, my car battery of 75ah over 20 hours, lol. And it worked perfectly fine. The battery is a 7A 12V lithium thing, just the usual. The UPS has 2x 30A fuses for proberly the 12V line, and one main 220v fuse at the back of the unit.

Lol I forgot you were that guy.

Yeah, if it could do that, pretty sure it's a-ok.

 

[remixedcat]

Not good to run things like glue guns or heaters off UPS/Power strips.

 

[Jism]

The UPS is beeping when i'm gaming, wtf. Does this mean it's drawing more then 360 watts on avg? It has a PC + screen attached to it. When i close it down the beeping stops.

 

[Grog6]

Yes, that's the overload warning, most likely.

Some of them have an app that will tell you what the problem is, but I'd bet that's it.

 

[Jism]

No shit, stops when i hit the windows key going back into windows.

This is i guess the first time in ages that i launched a game again. So this is kind of new to me. I guess the thing will be replaced soon. It's a 600VA and my system is a Ryzen 2700x / 32GB RAM / RX580 / NVME SSD and nothing else. Yes the screen is attached to the UPS as well but those are usually light weight power consumers.

Ah: the LCD consumed a 1.2A. Pulled that one out, now the gaming is perfectly fine. I guess its all on the edge for a 650VA UPS.

 

[Grog6]

Depends on how hard you drive it; under gaming mode, it may draw a bunch of power.

Try it without the monitor, and see.

I'd guess at ~150W minimum for the CPU, 150W for the video card, 50W for memory, so you shouldn't be pushing 500W otherwise.

 

[Jism]

Nah it think it's within 300 ~ 400 watts of range. I can load the CPU all fully unless i start taxing the GPU as well with it.

and it only happens on heavy loaded scenes; its sporadic, but annoying as hell. I removed the LCD > that one had a power rating of 220V / 1.2A. Now it's solved.

 

[Jism]

Yep. Just a CB20 bench puts a 83% load onto the UPS. Including gaming thats pretty much close or even over the top on what it's capable of. It is changing the voltage a bit too tho.

Starts to beep like crazy once you throw Furmark + CB together on it. I think i need a bigger one here.

 

[EsaT]

I guess its all on the edge for a 650VA UPS.

It's not 650VA UPS, but 390W UPS... Assuming honest specs.
Volt-amperes matter only with non-PFC load/in AC circuitry they don't measure actual real power, which is measured in watts.
Hence with modern PCs that VA number is completely meaningless and if UPS can provide enough watts, it can handle what little reactive power component there's present.

But because of VA number being bigger, marketroids like pushing those.
Usually "power factor" of UPS is 0.6, meaning real output power is 0.6 times VA number.
High end models usually have it higher, while in lower end UPSes it can be lower.
APC even has had some scam models with PF of 0.5 meaning their actual output power is half the advertising number.

You just need to skip that VA number completely and look for watts.
For better gaming PCs would set UPS requirement to 500W.
That also leaves some margin, because obviously it's not wise to size something for being red line loaded.
Also transfer to battery power might not be succesfull, if power draw is near full output of UPS.
Except for seamless power providing on-line/double conversion UPSes, there's short no voltage time before UPS kicks in, which no doubt causes higher momentary power draw to fill up PSU's bulk capacitor charge.

I'm not sure why but usually around 03:00AM the power just drops for a tiny second leaving TV and everything else off after that.

Do you have any big factories/industrial plants nearby?
Such very high power consumers can cause hiccups into local power grid when they turn things on/off.

Yep. Just a CB20 bench puts a 83% load onto the UPS. Including gaming thats pretty much close or even over the top on what it's capable of. It is changing the voltage a bit too tho.

That difference between input and output is no doubt far below measuring accuracy limit.
I mean when that whole UPS costs only fraction of higher end multimeters you can be sure there's some hefty tolerances in things.

 

[Jism]

How is the voltage conversion done? By just the transformer? If i see the input voltage fluctuate the output voltage changes directly with that as well. So my assumption is that its a simple 'analog' voltage conversion done by the transformer. As for power outtages; i have no idea. It's just the whole house. Sometimes for one second, sometimes for 10 seconds. Always happens at night at random instances. Usually after 03:00 AM so my assumption is that it might be due to maintaince or so.

 

[Grog6]

It's the same as the power supply in your computer, except the output, instead of being a regulated voltage, is an Inverter circuit, running at 120/220V 50/60Hz. (depends on country what the output is)

When the input side dies, the output side is run from the batteries.

Most of the time, it echos the input voltage, but it will likely change when it goes into battery mode, depending on the quality and capacity of the ups.

 

[Jism]

I'm talking about the Input voltage vs Output voltage, this could differ from 232V input to 235V output. It's compensating with at least 3 volts or so. It flutucates greatly as well (the output voltage together with the input voltage). Worst condition i saw was 231V > 235V, which is 4 volts. The amount of Hz also varies from 48 in worst condition to 50Hz at best. Could the UPS be compensating that as well?