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8500/8600/GT/GTS Mod guide...

Skitzo

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bigger

I was just looking at zerotherms site and the gx line is alot smaller than my v2 with added fan. I lose 2 rear slots, the second lost slot could be used for a low profile card but otherwise would obstruct airflow to the vga fan (2-3mm space at most):ohwell:
 
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Skitzo

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trim pots

I was wondering if they could be ajusted on the fly. I've been teaching myself some electronics (other projects) but still have alot to learn. I like options and a couple of trim pots seem like a more flexable solution than pencil or conductive ink/paint. I haven't played with suface mount components yet but I have a 25W iron so 2 solder points shouldn't be too big a challenge if I am quick. I may even have a few trim pots to choose from.
 

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Skitzo, im not sure about those solder points... some of them are the same as the pencil points, which stands to reason, but i think ill let Solaris cross-reference them fiost :D

still good find m8 thanks :D

and tes the 8800GS (soon to be 9600GSO) is an awesome card for the money, and so is a 9600GT, so if your after a cheap upgrade, id look into either of those 2, or for a little more an 8800GT.
 

mattewre

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Hi all!
I'm new... (sorry for my bad english)

I have a zotac 8800gt with Quimonda Ram HYB18H512321BF-10
According to Q. data sheet they are the ones that work @2.0volt.
do you think that pencil mod is a good way to increase freq. or a reverse mod is needed?
 

wolf

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i havent done the memory mods myself, i sorta feel that memory over clocking doesnt really achieve much unless you can get more than about 20% extra bandwith from the oc, which is unlikely, core and shader overclocks will heed much more performance than a memory overclock anyway. and with core vmods you can probably get the whole core (shaders also) running about 25% faster, which will be awesomely noticeable.

but in any case i have no idea wheter the reverse mod will be better, try both i guess, why not :D
 

mattewre

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i havent done the memory mods myself, i sorta feel that memory over clocking doesnt really achieve much unless you can get more than about 20% extra bandwith from the oc, which is unlikely, core and shader overclocks will heed much more performance than a memory overclock anyway. and with core vmods you can probably get the whole core (shaders also) running about 25% faster, which will be awesomely noticeable.

but in any case i have no idea wheter the reverse mod will be better, try both i guess, why not :D
mmm... ok! thx for your answer!
the problem is that i'm not able to do hard-vmod with soldering points, only pencil mod... so nothing for now... first i have to make some experience in soldering old vga, than on my 8800gt... Now i'm under watercooling and I soft-vmodded @1.1 from bios... (750mhz gpu)...
bye!
 

Skitzo

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Solder Points

Seems to me it would depend on what else is in the circuit and if it can handle the extra power. I've been playing with ic's a little and if one could identify the chip and it's pins putting a direct adjustable power feed to it(ground pin (-)) may avoid anything in the circuit that can't handle the power. If i understand it correctly the resistors before ground determine power throughput (add resistor after led). If other parts of the circuit or card draw power from the same point and have different grounds it could cause problems after a certain point one would think. But at the same time giving direct power to the chip may cause problems after the chip. Or other parts may need the power too. I need to do some more self educating but if I understand this wrong or someone has more to add please chime in. :confused:



lol or maybe there is no understanding yet...

and a question, I thought that voltage was determined by the Vsource unless going through an inverter or convertor. Doesn't changing the resistance change the current not the voltage? Are there perhaps some transitors (amp) in this circuit that is changing the voltage after the resistance change.
Now I'm confused, sorry, I've been reading to much and getting ahead of myself.
 
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Solaris17

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you need to always put a resistor right avter the voltage regulation chip this is usually a good idea as if you were to do it a little after the other resistors in the cuircuit have aleady broken the voltage down...most of the time when over volting what you have to hope for is your core not burning out...most of the transistors and resistors on the pcb have a very high tolerance in most cases your are more pron to burn the core than a resistor so worrying about what comes after the core ususally doesnt matter...however with voltage comes heat and some resistors get scolding on in order to keep them from blowing you need to take a ram sink and put them on the mosfets to keep them from going off like a grenade..hope that answered some of your questions..


and a question, I thought that voltage was determined by the Vsource unless going through an inverter or convertor. Doesn't changing the resistance change the current not the voltage? Are there perhaps some transitors (amp) in this circuit that is changing the voltage after the resistance change.
Now I'm confused, sorry, I've been reading to much and getting ahead of myself.
the current is measured in amps more so milli amps..changing the resistance does infact change the voltage...if you relese resistance voltage increases if you increase resistance voltage drops.


Voltage=powere used by component(like horsepower)
Amps=drive of the electical current(like gas)
wattage=over all powere consumption by the object(like MPG)

clear it up?...if you need anything i may be able to clerify.
 
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Skitzo

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Answers

Thanks Sol.....yes that answered some of my questions....but I have many more. May I ask where you got your electronics knowledge from(curiosity not a judgment)? I've mostly been teaching myself for projects because there always seems t be something I need that I can't buy. I've been working on a light for my dog(walk after dark off leash). I've purchased many over the last couple years and they've all been crap. So I will build the ultimate. I didn't realize all the different ways to flash leds(I know very simple but ya gotta start somewhere). The ic's are fun, got some 7555/6's a couple of weeks ago (old old old), experimenting with astable and monostable combo's,built a power latch for it gotta get some el wire to play with too. Looking into motion and light sensors aswell. Very interesting I find, but only the tip of the iceburg.
 
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Skitzo

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now I'm here

And that's how i ended up in this forum. I saw v-mod and thought hrmmmmnnn posssibilities.:toast:
 

Solaris17

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I learned at first by myself...i learn by seeing so i bought a bunch of crystal radios from radio shack when i was a little kid for like $5 each it was my b-day so i had like $30 i blew most of it on like 8 radios...from their i learned some pretty basic soldering skills...and by reading diagrams i was able to learn alot...i figured out if i looked at it like a high way with speed limits in different places it was easier to understand..and then i learned how to do the math for those speed limits...were a resistor was soldered was another sighn that would slow down the car that much more...and a transistor is a place were you kinda parked and reved it up..to take off a pre determined amount faster..then in high school i took some electronic courses about resistance and cicuitry...i had a nack for it and excelled in the calss then i bought some book sto learn with...after that i wanted to vmod my 9250...seeing as increasing core voltage got you better oc's the same would work with a grfx card on a smaller scale...so i looked it up...and found 1 or 2 and wondered were they got in the info....now adays i figure it out...with all i have learned and some advanced theory on how i think it should work..and when i get a new card i look at the voltage reguation chip and i go to the manufacturers web site and download the pdf schematics with the pin reads from their its touch and go..but b4 i try anything so i dont blow it up i read and compare than i follow the traces with a magnifying glass etc...and just look at how it breaks down on the card.
 

Skitzo

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That's Great

Great analogy, being able to explain things in a way that people can understand is a gift. Too bad most people with that gift don't teach.
 

Skitzo

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variable resistance

I asked about changing the resistance while the card was opperational beacause I thought it might be interesting to put together a circuit that could adjust the voltage up and down with a couple of tac switches. An on demand adjustment, a display for realtime voltage could incorporated aswell. Use a programable ic and it could most likely be used on a variety of models. Fun tool for mod enthusiasts. Soooo many ideas..
 

Solaris17

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voltage editing while thae card is on is EXTREMELY dangerous..i killed my 8600GT doing it by modding it .1v while it was running....some ppl use a variable pot that has a turn dial on it to adjust voltage...however they usually do so while it is off...however it may be possible...for example if you had an lcd display that reads voltage you could...if you have a voltage regulator chip or as you said a programmable ic...you could wire that to the lcd panel to read voltage and then attache that to the + and ground on vcore or vmem points which ever you wanted to read card voltage...and i bet if you had a variable pot...you could possibly get another programmable ic that can adjust which pins are on and off...for example b4 you solder the pot to the card you put resistors etc inbetween at chich point you program the IC's o enable or disable certain resistors when applying voltage say you had it at default..and then turned the voltage up i would disable a 30kohm resistor and enable a 20 effectively lowering resistance and since those resistors and not the ones on the car are putting up with the direct change it may be possible to safetly adjust while it is on without burning it out..and since your read IC is soldered to the positive and ground on the card your lcd panel shows change inreal time...not a bad idea.
 

Skitzo

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another project for the list...but a good one

0 ohm resistors ( if the right wattage could be found) could protect the card, help absorb any surge that made it through(don't think surge is the righ term)
would there be a point on the card, I'm thinking the chip that would allow for measuring stability (anything that could be identified by a simple NOT(if I remember right) circuit could be used to make incrimental increase automatically? If so a timer could be used for delayed retest after positive detection and incrimental increase. It would just repeat until it was stable or reached failure. Failsafes could be used too, mutiple parameters for instability detection maybe, try to measure how unstable. :)
 

Solaris17

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all over clocking is done via driver and bios manipulation of the pll...their is no way that i know of to modify such things physically...and measuring stability may be out of the quesion as voltages and clocks arent enough varables to make a good comparison off of..unless you were measuring voltage fluctuation that could resault in stability or even failing components however their are so many transistors resistors mosfets and voltage regulators that thats not a normal enough problem.
 

Skitzo

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always need more info

well as far as what we are doing with the volt mods, I guess I'm wondering how the chip reacts when it's being stretched beyond current power capabilities. When I oc my 8600gt, it artifacts before any other problems. If a voltage increase can solve this, is there any basic symptoms in the chip itself that would indicate "FEED ME MORE POWER" What kind of fluctuations are happening because of the shortage. I think I would need an oscillioscope to find out.
 

Skitzo

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ocing

yeah do the oc the same way but, this is just to manipulate the power for stability. Mostly for convenience and time.
 

Solaris17

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the easiest way to tell if your chip needs mroe power is by doing comparisons...for example if you google or even go to newegg...and look up the 8600GT look at some of the stock clocks..some are around lets say 700 others 740 some 690..so if you get one thats stock at 700 you then look online and see ppl have OC'd it to like 780....without vmod...so you get to around 770 or 765 and you artifact or you get a black screen(pretty famous symptom) that should be an imediate indicator you need more juice...if you give it power and say you mod it to 1.4 or 1.5v and you get it to 800 or 830 be for the same thing hapopens then you go online and some with the volt mod got to 795 or 850 varying...than you know your spacific peice of silicon has reached its limit for the current vmod.
 

Skitzo

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...

if there is a reaction in the voltage like a car sputtering as it runs out of fuel. It was mentioned that the biggets concern is the chip burning up well with adequate cooling what is next, path degridation due to ABUSE! lol Like the oil wearing holes in the pipelines as the pump it
 

Solaris17

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in a manner of speaking yes while under stress and increased voltage the wear can become extreme...shortening the life span of the chip greately and though it does it at a pretty rapid rate compatred to normal degradation it will still last a year or 2 or 3 at which point you will probably buy a new card b4 its death to begin with so it doesnt happen to often however the resistors and mosfets get extremely stressed and those will go much faster than the core degredation in some cases a matter of weeks..
 

Skitzo

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...

Some has to do it first right? So if you can't check out what others have done and want to figure it out yourself there has got to be many ways to do it, this is a way where everyone who used could be the first (but not at the same time lol). If a person could get their hands on data sheets for components (chips), they would know what manufacturers rate the limits and know where noman's land i starts. From there everyone is an explorer. This would just make it easy. One could go to town own the failsafes to make it usable with basic skills but complexity breeds problems
 

Solaris17

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haha i know all about the complexity breeds problem theiry it is absolutely true..
 

Skitzo

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more cooling

aside from replacing components how could the stress be minimalized. In the case of resistors they are rated for power levels before breaking down to resistance levels. If voltage is increased power is increased, more heat degridation and power flow degridation(I wonder if the electrons eat away at the pathways like the before mentioned oil). Heat can be delt with to a certain degree but the damage from excess power well... I don't know anything that will help that.(minimal surface mount knowledge so I don't know about difference(if any aside from the obvious) in those components.)
 

Skitzo

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yep already too complex

two tac switches no auto...sometimes things can be too convenient.:rockout:

the push button oc is nice for people who just want results and aren't into the inbetween stuff