9800 GTX ... improvement over 8800GT ?

[ragingspeed]

am soon getting a 512MB Asus 8800GT-TOP ... but thinking about it am seeing its full specs and comparing it with a 9800GTX I've concluded that it's a tough decision between the two.

Really appreciate your comments as now I got really mixed up.

Budget's not sky is the limit ... that means I wish I can go for the 9800GX2 but unreachable for me

Thanks all

 

[gOJDO]

The default clocked 9800GTX is between 5% and 10% faster than the Asus 8800GT-TOP. So, if the difference in price is around 10% go after the 9800GTX.

 

[deathvirus_me]

Don't bother the upgrade ... the performance gains are not drastic , and can be achieved by oc'ing the 8800GT .. put in a HR03GT , and oc the card a bit more ... and hold on till the new core arrives ...

 

[ShadowFold]

Get the 8800GT and OC that Q6600!

 

[ragingspeed]

thanks guys for the help ... but as I'm that keen in overclocking (wish I was) ... if not considering OC'ing then would the 9800 GTX be a better choice?

and now that we're mentioning OC'ing ... what guides are there around to help OC'ing ?

thanks again

 

[Jarman]

On the other hand the 9800GTX does overclock better than the 8800gt..

 

[WarEagleAU]

There are a few stickies on here for ocing both intel and amd chips. Also I believe there is a sticky or guide on here for ocing video cards. ATITool I believe, could be wrong, works with Nvidia cards. RivaTuner is pretty good as well (I use that, with atitool and AMDOverdrive). the 8800 GT is an awesome G92 card. Not too sure with the 9800 GTX speeds but if you can stomach the price, why not I say.

 

[webwizard]

I am looking to upgrade to the XFX PVT98FYDDU GeForce 9800 GTX after play on one of my friends rig.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814150292

 

[calvary1980]

might want to wait for this webwizard. http://www.tcmagazine.com/comments.php?shownews=19194&catid=2

- Christine

 

[tkpenalty]

EDIT: Whoops.... looks like they did a little price adjustment. Okay 9800GTX. Depends on if ur case can fit it though...

 

[webwizard]

That looks like something to wait for. Any idea of what the price will be?

 

[calvary1980]

not sure, doubt it will come more than $50 over what 9800GTX MSRP is now.

- Christine

 

[ragingspeed]

this XFX Black Edition that's being mentioned ... looks like it's already available in the UK ... at Scan ... have just checked its tech specs and noticed that (fomr standard XFX) GPU speed upped to 760Mhz from 675Mhz ... BUT ... Memory speed downed to 1900Mhz from 2200Mhz

what effects will there be regarding this memory speed issue? or is GPU speed worth much more considered than memory speed?

any concerns ? any comments ?

 

[ragingspeed]

sorry to interrupt again ... in that case ... the XFX XXX is to be considered even more ... memory speeds the same ... but instead upped to 760Mhz, upped to 740Mhz (referring to GPU speed) ... and also it's cheaper than the Black Edition

 

[calvary1980]

must be some errata or something, eVGA got 770/1150/1944.

- Christine

 

[newconroer]

thanks guys for the help ... but as I'm that keen in overclocking (wish I was) ... if not considering OC'ing then would the 9800 GTX be a better choice?

and now that we're mentioning OC'ing ... what guides are there around to help OC'ing ?

thanks again

From that statement ..I would suggest the GTX and an E chip instead of the Q. Learning to overclock, while balancing upgrade decisions can lead to a lot of bad choices and results.

Get the nice card, swap the chip, enjoy yourself, whilst using junker or old components in a secondary system, to learn how to maximize(via overclocking) the new components in your main system.

And ... another consideration is not to worry about pre-clocked/flashed cards. Overclocking a GPU is simple, low risk, and isn't often needed.
Since you're interested in learning how to OC, then you'll be able to manage the GPU yourself. You want a fresh, stock card that has a good warranty; nothing more, nothing less.

 

[Jarman]

Newconroer. If buying a card for the purpose of overclocking, it isnt a waste to buy a pre-overclocked card. Most manufacturers use their best binned chips in the ovcerclocked models. I had a 7900GT from XFX that was pre-overclocked and it had LOADS of headroom left. I would not say buying a pre-overclocked card is necessarily a waste

 

[ragingspeed]

must be some errata or something, eVGA got 770/1150/1944.

- Christine

you're right ... the 1900 is the shader clock ... XFX GTX specs from their own site ...

edition GPU Mem shader
speed speed clock

XFX 675 2200 1688
XFX XT 720 2200 1800
XFX XXX 740 2280 1850
XFX BLACK 760 2280 1900

Black edition is tempting but price difference is whopping !

 

[Lu(ky]

Well I have 2 eVGA 8800GT SSC SLI cards and they are great cards... But I just bought a Asus Striker II Extreme 790i mobo, and 2 eVGA 9800GTX SSC SLI... I will run some benches in a week or so 8800GT SSC SLI vs 9800GTX SSC I wonder who will win.. lol

 

[newconroer]

Newconroer. If buying a card for the purpose of overclocking, it isnt a waste to buy a pre-overclocked card. Most manufacturers use their best binned chips in the ovcerclocked models. I had a 7900GT from XFX that was pre-overclocked and it had LOADS of headroom left. I would not say buying a pre-overclocked card is necessarily a waste

Wrong!

That's a huge mis-conception.

The majority of pre-flashed cards are the runt of the litter. It's only luck or a blessing that people who buy them manage to get as far as they do.

But on a large scale, in quantities of hundreds or more, stock cards will always out clock, out perform and out survive their distributor flashed counterparts.

Do you REALLY think they would pick the 'cream of the crop' boards, then swap out/in new/bigger caps, then clock,test,clock,test,flash it FOR you?



They ARE a waste, especially when he wants to learn for himself.

 

[ZenZimZaliben]

Wrong!

That's a huge mis-conception.

The majority of pre-flashed cards are the runt of the litter. It's only luck or a blessing that people who buy them manage to get as far as they do.

Do you REALLY think they would pick the 'cream of the crop' boards, then swap out/in new/bigger caps, then clock,test,clock,test,flash it FOR you?

Where did you get this information? Please post a link. From what I know a pre-flashed card IS a better card. It was tested and runs at a factory OC with the manu heatsink. I have not seen another 8800GTS hit as high of clocks as mine and tattys. Maybe MSI is different, but the stock clock GTS from MSI does not clock as high as the factory oc'd one. By that I mean the overall OC i can get on my pre-oc'd card is higher then the stock will reach, or at least that I have ran across. Highest OC on stock GTS I have seen is 805Mhz, Highest OC on a PreClocked GTS I have seen is 830Mhz.

But...Is the extra $30 worth a extra 25Mhz...Well thats up to the buyer I guess, but it was for me.

 

[newconroer]

You don't need a link; rather you should already have this knowledge. Otherwise, you apparently don't know enough about modern graphics processing units.
Also, logic in relation to business and sales supports this. Maybe you need to know more about economics as well.


Likewise, I can turn the tables on you and ask you to prove that a 'stock' card, of which you do not even own, and probably don't have access to, won't OC as well as your pre-clocked card.

You apparently missed the part ( and I knew someone like you would..) in my post, that here and there owners of pre-flashed cards have success, but overall, by the numbers it doesn't work that way.

"But...Is the extra $30 worth a extra 25Mhz...Well thats up to the buyer I guess, but it was for me."

I think that pretty much sums up your knowledge of GPUs, and settles the case.


Ultimatley, he can achieve the same clocks himself. There's no need for him to pay some absurd premium, only built for twits or the ignorant. Since you seem to know enough, to challenge my comments, then what excuse do you have for buying a pre-flashed card?



This trend has to stop. It's not only ripping people off, but it's perpetuating ignorance of the general computer consumer mass. We're at a day and age where PCs and computing are far from taboo, where eight year olds can program in visual basic and where overclocking or water/liquid cooling is no longer EXTREME! There's absolutley no reason and no excuse to allow ourselves an our friends or neighbors, to be preyed upon by companies who are attempting to use consumer's ignorance against them. It's a tactic, whether ethically acceptable or not; we cannot change that, they will always use such things. However, what we can do, is educate people and say "NO!"

This is not like buying a car, that has a version B with a larger or tuned motor, to gain a small bit of horsepower or torque. Pointing a mouse cursor, and dragging a slide bar, is a far-cry from manipulating an automobile motor. The point is, it makes at least SOME sense, for someone to pay a premium for a higher quality model of a type of vehicle. It does NOT make sense for someone to pay a premium for a pseudo-higher quality model of a graphics card, in which the user/consumer can make the adjustments they need, by themselves, with little risk or effort in contrast to that of the automobile.


My support and concern for this issue comes from my knowledge of the truth about pre-flashed cards, and that I don't wish to see other computer users and consumers deceived and taken advantage of.

Your support and/or concern is bore out of your defensive position attempting to justify your errored belief and possiby purchase of a pre-flashed card. However it seems you got lucky with yours, and that's good, yet it doesn't change anything; so don't come in here throwing around rebuttal based on such useless intent, where the goal is to help someone, not hinder or harm.

 

[ZenZimZaliben]

My turn to edit...

This is a forum. If you can't handle a debate you shouldn't be here. I know a good amount regarding lithography...although I can safely say I don't know everything I am pretty sure I have a firm grasp of the subject.

And yes, lets talk economics. Do you really think they don't test these factory oc'd devices before sending them out. Warranty requests are not good for the bottom line and neither is a bad rep for sending out bad cards. Are the cards built exactly the same...Yes...Are both GPUs tested the same...Yes..and guess what, some perform better then others. These are exceptional chips out of the batch and will achieve a higher clock. Maybe they haven't for you then again as you stated anyone can slap on water cooling and OC their card. However I again will say that my same chip from a higher clocked card will ultimately out clock yours with the same gpu because the stock gpu just didn't cut it through testing.

Why did I buy my MSI8800GTS OC...well please read the above post. I wanted max performance. I wanted a chip that I "knew" had been tested at an already moderate overclock so pushing it even further will be as easy as pushing the stock. I do not believe they just slap a sticker on the card for pure marketing hype. Don't get me wrong there is some marketing hype because that is why there is a cost difference. But one card passed a series of test that the other did not.

 

[a_ump]

hmm interesting subject, and though i'm sure both of u know more than i do i still like to voice my opinion.
i'm goin to say i agree with Zen. though i like both of you have no link to prove this, i'm just tryin to think logically. newcon, u say that stock gpu's will more than likely exceed the overclocking ability of a pre-factory overclocked gpu. this could make sense from the way u defend it but logically if that were the case i would thk that if the majority of stock could oc farther than pre oc'ed wouldn't it make more sense for the stock speeds to b higher and ones that wouldn't achieve that would be 8800GT's? not to mention that this is the first time i've ever read that a stock card will out oc a pre-oc'ed card. and not saying your unintelligent but there are plenty of extremely smart individuals that would probly have said this in the plenty of forums i read about how to oc my GT several months ago and would have suggested buying a stock one, they however all suggested to buy the highest pre-oced one i could afford.

you also say it is low risk, i must say i disagree, since some people new to oc'ing(the guy who posted this thread) may accidentally oc there's too far and may b operational for say 2-5months but then die and then have to go back to a previous card or buy another. and the main fact that kills your low risk is that warrantee will be voided, not sure how gpu manufacturers can tell if a dead gpu was from oc'ing but they're experts and i'd say they would know how.

but back to what this thread is for, 8800GT top or 9800GTX
well i would say 9800GTX, yes performance isn't that noticable at say 1440-900 or lower but at 1680x1050 or higher there can be a noticable performance difference.
http://www.techarp.com/showarticle.aspx?artno=483&pgno=9
this isn't between the 9800GTX but GT versus G92 GTS we all know that the 9800GTX outperforms the 8800GTS G92 in every single benchmark, don't contradict this without backing it up. and here is another that compares all 3.
http://www.overclockersclub.com/reviews/xfx_9800gtx/6.htm
pay attention only to the 1920x1200 since i assume his new 24" will support that resolution. few fps but 26 or 22 is noticable, especially when is comes to what your minimum fps will b, though the OC"ed GTX beats the GT by almost 10 FPS in crysis. overall in some games the GT comes CLOSE but doesn't ever beat the GTX and sometimes is 20+fps away. i wouldn't pay attention to the 3dmark06 scores, they have for a long while now been inaccurate at judging what GPU is the best or better than the other, example is the 8800GTX scores lower than the 8800GT yet very few games does the GT actually outperform the GTX.

 

[ZenZimZaliben]

I am thanking you, not for agreeing with me (although thanks), but because you are right, we totally hijacked this thread with a stupid debate. Sorry about that!! I just can't stand it when you disagree with someone the first thing they feel necessary is to try and insult or belittle you.

So yeah. the 9800GTX is an improvement over the 8800GT. IF i was buying a new card I would go with the 9800GTX and if they offered one, an overclocked version.