A quick question about Ryzen and RAM.....

[phill]

Guys I'm just curious with the state of play for RAM and Ryzen. Not so much the timings and such like but the amount of DIMMs you have.

I was just wondering if having 2 DIMMs over 4 DIMMs of memory could cause me less of a headache when trying to mess about with timings... I hear that Ryzen doesn't like all the slots filled? I wasn't so sure if this was the same issue with Intel CPUs as such??

The kits I'm looking at are -

16Gb - 2 x 8Gb

32Gb - 2 x 16Gb

Given the price difference between the two, it would make more sense to buy the 32Gb really because it's cheaper. I know the timings aren't the best in the world but then they aren't going in systems that RAM timings have to be the best of the best Also with the fact that I could double the capacity again to 64Gb if I really wanted to later on, I'd only get to 32Gb with the 16Gb kits..

I just thought I'd ask TPU since we have a lot more Ryzen users

 

[londiste]

Out of these two with same speeds and timing, especially with the linked prices go for 2x16GB kit.
- When it comes to performance, it is a bit of a balancing act. Faster 2x8GB kits are often cheaper but 4 sticks are almost always more difficult to work with in terms of overclocking and are/may be more difficult on the memory controller.
- Also, 2x16GB gives you an easy possible upgrade path to 64GB in the future.

In terms of Ryzen and RAM, the best possible performance is 3600 or 3800 kit with the lowest timings you can afford (or are willing to spend). Alternative to that is overclocking a cheaper/slower kit to better speeds but with that your results may vary.

 

[phill]

Thanks for the reply It seems my little bit of logic and common sense is on the money lol So thank you for confirming that

I was looking around for some slightly faster spec'd ram but I was unable to see anything and since these are going to be mostly for crunching but also for my girls to game on and generally use, I thought 3200 would be more than enough for them as I'm looking to buy a few kits, I was definitely trying to keep the price as low as possible.

Is there any other kits anyone might suggest with my thoughts above? Whilst B die stuff would be great, it's very much not essential

 

[londiste]

3200CL16 is price/performance king memory speed by far at the moment.
3600CL19 is a close second and might be good for Ryzens to due higher speed.

Edit:
For Europe (and, well, UK is close enough) I usually start from Geizhals that covers German market. Not always to order from Germany (although that is an option) but they have a pretty good database of the specifications and models and gives a good overview on the prices of things in EU wholesalers. Looking up couple cheapest models at local (r)etailers after narrowing down the wanted specifications has given me very good results so far. In this case, something like: https://geizhals.eu/?cat=ramddr3&xf=1454_16384~15903_DDR4~254_3600~256_2x

 

[phill]

Well I've found some 3600CL17 stuff ( 16Gb CL17 3600 kit ) but it's only 16Gb kits, ideally, I'd love to stick with the 32Gb as it's a load better for futureproofing the systems for me. I know the girls won't need that amount of RAM anytime soon (maybe for a few tabs in Chrome...??) but I'd rather pay out the bit more to start with than to have to pay out more again later... I hate spending twice on things....

 

[Deleted member 67555]

I use the Patriot Viper 3200mhz cl16 2x8gb (not the linked kit tho) in my daughters Ryzen system and it just works...LoL
It was $90 at the time of purchase which was by far the best price at that time and I was a little worried but they just work as intended without issue.

 

[Tatty_Two]

The team 8pack edition at OCUK are good sets, a little pricier at 109 for 3600mhz but for that you get CL16 but if you want the higher capacities then that 32GB kit in you're OP is a decent buy.

 

[phill]

I use the Patriot Viper 3200mhz cl16 2x8gb (not the linked kit tho) in my daughters Ryzen system and it just works...LoL
It was $90 at the time of purchase which was by far the best price at that time and I was a little worried but they just work as intended without issue.

That's what I like to hear I hope that the 32Gb kits are going to play ball as well

The team 8pack edition at OCUK are good sets, a little pricier at 109 for 3600mhz but for that you get CL16 but if you want the higher capacities then that 32GB kit in you're OP is a decent buy.

I could see a load of faster 16Gb kits but no faster 32Gb kits which I thought/think is somewhat odd??

I think for the money though, the 32Gb can't be beaten and if everything goes south with pricings for whatever reason, then at least I have 32Gb of fairly decent RAM that will more than likely, never need to be upgraded or touched for my girls rigs

I do wonder if these kits will overclock much so if I can find some time to do some testing with them, I'll willingly give it a go With the data from TPUs memory test as well, 3200 is perfect

Thanks everyone for the input and confirmation

 

[EarthDog]

I was just wondering if having 2 DIMMs over 4 DIMMs of memory could cause me less of a headache when trying to mess about with timings...

This is true, period. 2 DIMMs is less stress on the IMC than 4. Quite simple.

That said, 32GB is more stressful than 16GB on the IMC...

 

[dgianstefani]

3600/16 is the same die as 3600/14, but obviously you're not guaranteed to get a stable OC of 3600/14 if you buy the cheaper kit.

Use this tool https://notkyon.moe/ram-latency.htm to determine what RAM is better. Remember latency is king especially when dealing with Ryzen, since the IF is linked 1:1 to the RAM.

 

[phill]

This is true, period. 2 DIMMs is less stress on the IMC than 4. Quite simple.

Another reason then going for the 32Gb kits now

Is this such a factor with X79/X99/X299/Threadripper spec's of CPU @EarthDog ?

 

[dgianstefani]

3600/14 is 7.7ns, where 3600/16 is 8.8ns absolute latency, 3600/19 is much worse at 10.5.

Bear this in mind as the entire system waits on these latencies, and while they are all incredibly small, I can guarantee that the latencies of the CPU are lower still, meaning the memory is the weakest link in the chain, with CPU waiting for memory rather than the other way around.

If your CPU is spending time waiting for the memory, that's time that it's not spending processing, so consider that when thinking about saving $20 or so on a cheaper kit with the same overall capacity.

Unless you actually need 32gb, go for a faster 16gb kit, you can upgrade capacity later. People talking about how 4xDIMMs will be more difficult to run are talking about overclocks higher than 3600, which is the realm of diminishing returns anyway.

 

[EarthDog]

Another reason then going for the 32Gb kits now

Is this such a factor with X79/X99/X299/Threadripper spec's of CPU @EarthDog ?

Yes. The both have IMCs......

(In most cases) - 2 DIMMs vs 4, 4 will be able to run faster. 16GB vs 32GB, 16GB will be able to run faster. There is also memory ranks/banks to consider as well, but this isn't relevant for 99% of people (competitive benchmarking). But at these speeds, most will be fine.

People talking about how 4xDIMMs will be more difficult to run are talking about overclocks higher than 3600, which is the realm of diminishing returns anyway.

More or less, yes. But if you stuff the board with four DIMMs and try to run those at 3600+, it may not 'just work'.

 

[dgianstefani]

https://uk.pcpartpicker.com/product...x-8gb-ddr4-3200-memory-tdpgd416g3200hc14adc01 this is the best cheap memory I've found. It's 3200/14 with very tight factory timings. Tighter than any other kit on the market. This means it's a good overclocker to 3600. I've used this kit in several builds including https://uk.pcpartpicker.com/b/BMtgXL.

 

[phill]

3600/14 is 7.7ns, where 3600/16 is 8.8ns absolute latency, 3600/19 is much worse at 10.5.

Bear this in mind as the entire system waits on these latencies, and while they are all incredibly small, I can guarantee that the latencies of the CPU are lower still, meaning the memory is the weakest link in the chain, with CPU waiting for memory rather than the other way around.

If your CPU is spending time waiting for the memory, that's time that it's not spending processing, so consider that when thinking about saving $20 or so on a cheaper kit with the same overall capacity.

Unless you actually need 32gb, go for a faster 16gb kit, you can upgrade capacity later. People talking about how 4xDIMMs will be more difficult to run are talking about overclocks higher than 3600, which is the realm of diminishing returns anyway.

I'm going to grab the 32Gb in my first post, as it gives me masses of RAM and the performance would be more than decent enough for the systems it'll be going into. These are not for my personal rig, so RAM speeds/performance maximus isn't what I'm aiming for with these rigs Performance/price is what the aim of the goal is for these PC's

Yes. The both have IMCs......

(In most cases) - 2 DIMMs vs 4, 4 will be able to run faster. 16GB vs 32GB, 16GB will be able to run faster. There is also memory ranks/banks to consider as well, but this isn't relevant for 99% of people (competitive benchmarking). But at these speeds, most will be fine.

More or less, yes. But if you stuff the board with four DIMMs and try to run those at 3600+, it may not 'just work'.

I get that I just wondered if they where of higher 'quality' to allow higher RAM or even RAM clocks. I know that getting 3200 to run on an X99 platform to be a nightmare and won't offer masses of performance gain but was just curious as the majority of what is out there for these platforms gives me the impression of a slight step down from server grade stuff anyways... RAM speeds definitely lower in Servers than desktops, well mostly

 

[EarthDog]

I get that I just wondered if they where of higher 'quality' to allow higher RAM or even RAM clocks. I know that getting 3200 to run on an X99 platform to be a nightmare and won't offer masses of performance gain but was just curious as the majority of what is out there for these platforms gives me the impression of a slight step down from server grade stuff anyways... RAM speeds definitely lower in Servers than desktops, well mostly

X99 is, well, old. The IMCs in those CPUs are not as adept at running fast memory speeds and the 'limit' is a lot lower. Generations move on IMCs improve (among other things) and RAM speeds improve.

Servers typically run at the max platform spec or less yes. The point in servers and data centers isn't speed from overclocking... they want a STABLE system.

Performance/price is what the aim of the goal is for these PC's

Then be damn sure you are able to use more than 16GB... otherwise, get 16GB. If it is primarily a folding machine, 16GB is plenty.

 

[TheoneandonlyMrK]

Yes. The both have IMCs......

(In most cases) - 2 DIMMs vs 4, 4 will be able to run faster. 16GB vs 32GB, 16GB will be able to run faster. There is also memory ranks/banks to consider as well, but this isn't relevant for 99% of people (competitive benchmarking). But at these speeds, most will be fine.

More or less, yes. But if you stuff the board with four DIMMs and try to run those at 3600+, it may not 'just work'.

your right, by simply thinking of ram as pages of a book it can simplify the thought process, if you double the number of pages in the book by doubling capacity the integrated memory controller obviously has to do more work, if you spread that same amount of pages across twice the circuit space then again the workload increases.

 

[phill]

X99 is, well, old. The IMCs in those CPUs are not as adept at running fast memory speeds and the 'limit' is a lot lower. Generations move on IMCs improve (among other things) and RAM speeds improve.

Servers typically run at the max platform spec or less yes. The point in servers and data centers isn't speed from overclocking... they want a STABLE system.

Then be damn sure you are able to use more than 16GB... otherwise, get 16GB. If it is primarily a folding machine, 16GB is plenty.

My logic is like this for the ram... If I can save money by buying 32Gb now and not having to add more later on when it's likely to be more expensive then I'll do it that way, at least I've never got to worry about it at all, ever again then

I fully understand if I don't need 16Gb to not buy it, but it'll be sods law that something might change (crunching or otherwise) that will require more and I'll end up spending more again that I could have saved a little before hand.

With regards to the crunching as well, I've been seeing reports in Linux that it has been getting pretty high up and using most of the 16Gb I have already in two of my rigs at home, so I figured, be safe 32Gb is a better option. Not maybe the cheapest but long term it should be better, plus if overclocking the RAM is better on two sticks and not four, then I'm quids in on that one Well, I hope so lol

 

[Durvelle27]

I'm using a cheap Oloy set of ram. 32GB(2x16GB) and it seems to be running well.

 

[eidairaman1]

Just stay away from corsair

 

[phill]

Just stay away from corsair

I'm not a fan of Corsair, so it's not even on my list!!

We'll see how things go

 

[oxrufiioxo]

I have 4X 8GB Team T Force Legend 3200CL14 running at 3800CL16.

I think this is going to depend a lot on what Ryzen chip and motherboard you go with or have.
X570 Aorus Master/3900X so relatively high end for both CPU/Mobo.

 

[phill]

Good job I ordered some yesterday, it's gone up in price now!!

 

[hat]

I'm using a cheap Oloy set of ram. 32GB(2x16GB) and it seems to be running well.

Same here... only I grabbed a 16GB kit. I don't think the system really needed 16GB, but 8GB would have been lacking especially when using integrated graphics, and the 16GB kit was cheap enough anyway...

The point is, Ryzen RAM compatibility has made great strides since initial release. OLOy isn't on my QVL anywhere and it worked just fine, even with the XMP profile

 

[EarthDog]

The point is, Ryzen RAM compatibility has made great strides since initial release. OLOy isn't on my QVL anywhere and it worked just fine, even with the XMP profile

They've improved, indeed. Just to note, the QVL document lists kits that have been tested. If it isnt in the list, it doesnt automatically mean they will not work.

Ryzen, all generations, in particular earlier gens, are still particular when it comes to ram with the 3000 series now being the least picky. I'd still recommend sticking to the qvl list for assured compatibility on ryzen, however. Especially for those who may not want to tweak if the sticks don't work.