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A very valid technical point

Ketxxx

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#1
It's something I've always pondered, and I concluded the manufacturer can't conclude the modder has invalidated his \ her warrenty, but heres just one of many ramblings that goes on up in my head.

Youve just gone and bought a new component..(hey good for you!) for sake of argument we will use a graphics card for the example. Now as a modder worth any weight in his salt you inspect the card in detail before putting it in, making a note of the type of memory you have. Googling reveals your memory to be better than the card actually needs to run at stock frequencies (we will say for sake of argument the card requires 1.4ns memory for stock frequencies, but the card is equipped with 1.1ns memory) So you decide to OC the memory to 1.7GHz. (still within the frequencies set by the memory manufacturer of 1.8GHz)

Now heres the most interesting bit, we will say for sake of argument the card you bought is unstable due to poor memory timings being set in the cards BIOS, and even changing the timings to reference frequencies the memory manufacturer recommends does not work. You contact the graphics card manufacturer requesting a BIOS update, explaining the issue and as your confident in your skills (for sake of argument we will say you can proficiently program with HEX and your job is system memory tech support - so you are well versed in how memory works and what each timing does) You get a reply back from the manufacturer stating they will not help as you have "invalidated" your warrenty.

and heres the posed question, by increasing your memory frequency (yet still keeping it below the memory manufacturers specification) how have you "invalidated" your warrenty? As technically, you have not OCd the card at all - in fact the frequency set for the memory is still under spec and not being pushed beyond.

Just thought it might be an interesting point to duke out :pimp:
 

KennyT772

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#2
You have invalidated the warranty as you have modified the card to a spec different then what it was produced and sold as. In the fine print of almost any warranty it will include a modification clause, something along the lines of "modification from factory spec".

As far as your scenario goes, voltmod the b*tch!
 

Ketxxx

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#3
In theory that works. I havent seen any warrenty that has anything along those lines tho, just something along the lines of forbidding you from removing the stock cooler and putting a decent one on :wtf: Most extreme scenario is you reflashed the card with its BIOS, just with the modified timings and clocks, this cannot be considered modding imo as its just software. Its not like your adding\replacing something physical on the card.
 

KennyT772

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#4
You are still modifying the card from stock. When you buy the card the warranty agreement is for that card, as it comes out of the box. Not over clocked 20% by a diff bios. It's like buying a Corvette and asking Chevy for a better fuel mapping. Sure they can do it, but they would rather sell it to you as an upgrade, and kill the warranty so they are no longer liable.

You buy what they sell. If that isn't good enough, then diy.

By changing anything, it is a modification or mod. Soft-mod/Hard-mod, it doesn't matter. It is still a modification in the manufacturer's eyes.
 

Ketxxx

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#5
Its a poor excuse. Especially with many manufacturers actively encouraging OCing by even bundling their own OC software.
 
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#6
And by using the supplied OC software (for whatever reason), it would invalidate the warranty as well?
 
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#7
Hmmm... You make a good point. So, say in theory the actual stock setting turned out to be less than what it was meant to be in this scenario? If so, I can see where you're coming from.
 

Ketxxx

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#8
anti: I'm not sure on that, depends on the manufacturer. Tho most would say the warrenty is void I would think even if you used their own OC software. Ironic that isnt it? manufacturer promotes OCing, actively encouraging it in various forms, then when someone needs an RMA cos they cooked it, then manufacturer backtracks and screams "warrenty void!"

demon: I'm only coming from the perspective of regardless of the frequency the graphics manufacturer clocked the memory at, because you had a component rated better than the use it was being deployed on, you would not void warrenty by OCing that part of the component as it was still operating under its rated speed, and thus the warrenty with the manufacturer shouldnt be void as its there to prevent over pushing (aka running a component faster than its official specification) But in this scenario, the memory is not being run faster than ITS (not the manufacturers) specification. As the memory was rated to run much faster its not being pushed beyond its official specification, thus the warrenty being voided by OCing is null and void in itself as the memory is still running slower than its official specification.
 
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#9
Ah, okay I see what you're saying. Yes, that is an interesting point...
 
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psychomage343

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#10
yes you do violate the warranty if you use their own oc software, it's stated in most of the programs that the program is provided as is and that the company is in no way responsible for your card or computer should issues arise with usage of the software and how your card reacts under the softwares control.
 
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#11
Valid point, but the manufacturers certainly don't look at it that way. You mod, you own.
 

tigger

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#12
does that apply to motherboards that have a fsb range upto 600 too? does it invalidate the warranty by oc'ing the motherboard?

surely if they sell it with overclocking options it wont invalidate the warranty by overclocking it.
 
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#13
does that apply to motherboards that have a fsb range upto 600 too? does it invalidate the warranty by oc'ing the motherboard?

surely if they sell it with overclocking options it wont invalidate the warranty by overclocking it.
heres a car.

Heres a turbo charger.

Heres a can of NOS.

Blow your engine, you can fix it.
'
I do believe however..

buy card-> Unstable
OC/UC, change timings, still unstable

Warranty says it was DOA before you tried to get it working.
 
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#14
does that apply to motherboards that have a fsb range upto 600 too? does it invalidate the warranty by oc'ing the motherboard?

surely if they sell it with overclocking options it wont invalidate the warranty by overclocking it.
Wow we're getting into ethics here. In my mind, the answer is no, becuase they are directly giving you the tools to damage your system, so I don't think it invlaidates the warranty. I recall a conversation with Abit years ago on a 440BX board, where they would not TECHNICALLY SUPPORT overclocking, but certainly made and marketed the motherboard as an overclockers board.

Now if you start getting into physical voltmods and custom bios, things are different.
 
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#15
Wow we're getting into ethics here. In my mind, the answer is no, becuase they are directly giving you the tools to damage your system, so I don't think it invlaidates the warranty. I recall a conversation with Abit years ago on a 440BX board, where they would not TECHNICALLY SUPPORT overclocking, but certainly made and marketed the motherboard as an overclockers board.

Now if you start getting into physical voltmods and custom bios, things are different.
This concept is OK.

Until you take it to the extreme.

a DFI mobo allows some pretty insane voltages.
 

HookeyStreet

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#16
At the end of the day, if you screwed up a graphics card by overclocking it via ATiTool and admitted this when trying to perform an RMA, the retailer would say that your warranty is void (in 9/10 cases anyway) because youve 'messed around' with the stock settings (which in most retailers eyes is very bad)

The bottom line is this "honesty is not always the best policy", when retuning or complaining about an item, never admit youve 'tweaked' it in any kind of way. The retailer has every right to be this way because they set the standards as to how the product runs (on paper anyway), not the consumer!

I think they see it this way, if you want a faster graphics card/CPU etc, just shell out the extra cash and buy better :(

My moto is: "dont admit anything" ;) LOL (if it dies just return it as 'faulty', muhahahaha)
 
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#17

WarEagleAU

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#18
rofl. Amen to that. Though, I have not yet had to RMA any computer parts.
 

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#19
rofl. Amen to that. Though, I have not yet had to RMA any computer parts.
I have yet to receive a dead part myself. When I killed my 9600pro (80mm fan bracket touched a ram bga..ooh the colors) I bit the bullet and got a new card.

The policy that if it is your fault it died, be it overclocking or modding, then the warrenty is void is a general consensus. BFG, DFI and a few other companies will allow overclocking as long as that isn't the reason the part failed. Such as sending a motherboard back that would go non-responsive at a 5mhz overclock when it was designed to do much more.

The scenario dippy described with a fudge card is 100% true, and should be rma'ed.

Manufacturer supplied overclocking tools usually have a limit they will go to if they are covered by the warranty. The Sapphire Trixx program would only let me overclock 50mhz for example. Others such as Asus Ai-tools have no true limit. I'm rather interested in reading the warranty.

On my DFI ut-ultra d the Manual says overclocking is fine, but makes sure to stress cooling and concern about the ram vreg and pwms.
 

Ketxxx

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#20
This isnt about ethics, its pure and simple on technicality. If a manufacturer doesnt want you to OC the solution is very simple, DONT actively promote and encourage it if you dont have the balls to back it up, and certainly dont use components such as memory that are rated well above and beyond specification the product actualy requires. If a component is rated for 900MHz by the component provider, but the manufacturer of the graphics card only runs it at 700MHz, there is no warrenty invalidation imo as no component has been pushed beyond its paper-spec capabilities.