About to go 4890 CF

[aCid888*]

Who cares what Hallas thinks anyway, he ain't putting in the cash to buy them so being a fanboy of nVidia wont give the OP any help. MRCL knows what the choices are and what each setup gives...if he wants a 295 then let him have one, if he wants Crossfire 4890's then that's a good choice too.

Personally, I'd pick the slightly more expensive Crossfire setup as it beats the 295 in 90% of games, is about 10% more powerful overall and costs only 5% more than the 295, plus Crossfire scales to 94% over a single card @ 1920x1200 and that to say the least it amazing.

Oh and another note about the Corsair PSU; Wiz runs his tests on an i7 setup that is far more demanding power-wise than MRCL's setup, and he runs all that on a 800w BFG PSU that has no more power in reality than the Corsair unit in question.

 

[TRIPTEX_CAN]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Its up to you MRCL.

/Thread

 

[HellasVagabond]

Who cares what Hallas thinks anyway, he ain't putting in the cash to buy them so being a fanboy of nVidia wont give the OP any help. MRCL knows what the choices are and what each setup gives...if he wants a 295 then let him have one, if he wants Crossfire 4890's then that's a good choice too.

Personally, I'd pick the slightly more expensive Crossfire setup as it beats the 295 in 90% of games, is about 10% more powerful overall and costs only 5% more than the 295, plus Crossfire scales to 94% over a single card @ 1920x1200 and that to say the least it amazing.

Oh and another note about the Corsair PSU; Wiz runs his tests on an i7 setup that is far more demanding power-wise than MRCL's setup, and he runs all that on a 800w BFG PSU that has no more power in reality than the Corsair unit in question.

Good thing i don't care what you think either. You call me a fanboy ( yeah yeah it is the easy thing to call someone in order to win appearences lately ) but so far everything you guys try to prove goes against everything we know. So here it goes :

1) Two 4890s are cooler than a GTX295 ( So 2 cards running 73 degrees each inside a case are cooler than 1 card running 75 degrees....Ok.... )
2) Two 4890s are more silent than a GTX295 ( Yet a single 4890 produces 41dBA of noise while a single GTX295 produces 45dBA of noise...So two 4890 are more silent...Ok.... )

And if that wasn't enough Triptex posts a screenshot of his dual 4850s achieving a maximum of 35fps ( although a few posts back he said they went easily over 40fps ) with a far less depth of field than the one i placed but with the same exact quality settings.
Call a fanboy whoever you want guys, i really dont care. However facts are facts.

 

[LuxZg]

Hellas - I'm with others here, I believe 2x HD4890 will give him better expirience than GTX295.
First off, 2x73C does not mean he has 146C in his case. Neither does 2x41dB mean that he has a jet-engine levels of 82dB. If sound levels acted like that, people would never use several fans that are lower noise vs less fans of a greater (individual) noise.

And here you have a person that actually has Crossfire setup with these EXACT same cards (dccmadams) and it says clearly that noise is not an issue. Temperatures aren't mentioned, but if they were an issue I'm sure it would be..

Oh, and computer with single HD4890 top at around 330W, so I don't see how a 650W PSU wouldn't be enough for Crossfire, it's not like he will have two CPUs, twice as many HDDs/DVDs, two motherboards and so on..

 

[HellasVagabond]

I never said that two 4890s would produce 146C in his case, but they would easily produce more than 73 degrees, perhaps 100 ? I am not a physics teacher so i can't pinpoint that. As for the noise again two 41dBA cards should and will produce more noise than a single 45dBA card, how much again i can't say.

The recommended PSU for a single 4890 is 450-500W if i remember correct. Two 4890s will be very close in toping his system. What you do not seem to take into consideration is that test rigs usually have just the CPU/Mainboard/Ram/Single HDD/Mouse/Keyboard and that is that. Normal systems have a lot more and certainy consume more power than test rigs.

Two 4890s may produce a bit more in terms of FPS but both them and the GTX295 can play most titles at 80fps+ and from what i see when the GTX295 plays a title at 110fps the 4890s in CF play it at 125fps. To me the extra bucks, extra heat, extra noise, extra power consumption are not worth it.

 

[largon]

Three 280 use almost the same power as two 4890s

Here, let me fix that.

Three HD4890s use the same power as two GTX280s.

There.

HD4890: 120W load ->
3x HD4890: 360W

GTX280: 178W load
2x GTX280: 356W

 

[HellasVagabond]

Even so, this is a big difference in power draw.
Plus the GTX295 consumes less than 2 4890 in CF

 

[human_error]

I never said that two 4890s would produce 146C in his case, but they would easily produce more than 73 degrees, perhaps 100 ? I am not a physics teacher so i can't pinpoint that. As for the noise again two 41dBA cards should and will produce more noise than a single 45dBA card, how much again i can't say.

I'll correct a couple of flaws in this post - you're saying 2x4890 gpus at 73 degrees each are hotter then the two gpus in the GTX295 has at 75 degrees each? Yes the 295's gpus are closer and so they would warm each other up slightly whereas you don't get that with the 4890s but to be honest if both exhaust the air out of the case it doesn't matter the total temperature generated by both gpus but really how hot each gpu is, as that'll be what sets your max overclock on stock cooling surely...

Also sound doesn't add - if you have 2 sound sources producing the same sound such as fans the noise will sound more consistant with less variation but it can't magically get significantly louder, yes some sound waves will combine to make a larger sound wave but other sound waves will cancel others out so the average sound level would be the same.

Not meaning to flame but i thought i'd point out a couple of issues with the logic here.

Also in regard to the power draw - if 3x4890 use 360w then 2 will use 240w, leaving 510w for the rest of his system, more than enough so it doesnt matter if they have more power draw as his psu is enough anyway.

 

[HellasVagabond]

The overal card temperature is 75 degrees, i was not talking about each core.

So two different heat sources with 73 degrees each should produce more heat inside the case, correct ?

As for noise, come on you can't logically say that 1 sound source with an output of 45dBA will be almost the same as 2 sound sources with 41dBA each, that is just impossible.

Like i said, ATI recommends a 450-500W PSU for a single 4890, so 2 may or may not be too much for his PSU when playing a game like Crysis that tends to use the max of each card. The only way to be 100% certain is for him to buy them and use them.

 

[Hayder_Master]

sorry did you run crysis 1680x1050 with highest settings and 8xAA on 4850 how much FPS you got 10-15 maybe
my advice go for 4890x2 it is release soon , cheaper than 2x4890 maybe , spare pci-e slot , less power , only a little performance than 2x4890 but don't forget it have same technology of 4870x2 you know there is bridge between gpu's for increase bandwidth but it not active now they release driver when they ready to active this
so what you think now

 

[HellasVagabond]

There is no confirmation that ATI will be making an 4890x2.

 

[human_error]

The overal card temperature is 75 degrees, i was not talking about each core.

So two different heat sources with 73 degrees each should produce more heat inside the case, correct ?

As for noise, come on you can't logically say that 1 sound source with an output of 45dBA will be almost the same as 2 sound sources with 41dBA each, that is just impossible.

Yes the overall card temp is 75 degrees, and that overall temp is gathered from BOTH GPUS so you have both of them at 75degrees. It's not like 1 gpu is 75 degrees and the other is 0 degrees, and the temp reading won't be the temp the card is producing, it will be where the temp sensors are - the gpu's.

So the two heat sources, each with 1gpu at 73 degrees will create less heat than the 2 heat sources (each gpu) in the 295 at 75 degrees. Plus as i said earlier it doesn't matter how much heat they produce since they expel nearly all of it out of the case with stock cooling, so the most important factor is the temp on each gpu, which is lower on the 4890s.

And yes for noise i am saying that 2x 41dBA sound sources will not average much more than 41dBA - look at it like pc speakers - it's not louder with a second speaker, just a more consistant sound (note not louder - more consistant, and so more noticable, but not louder).

@hayder.master
I don't believe ati will be making a 4890x2 (they've said they won't already) - it would force their 4870x2 prices down (bad for them as 4870x2s sell fine atm for a top end card) and would be a waste of design resources to adjust for bigger gpu power reqs since they will be releasing 5xxx series before too long.

 

[MRCL]

Alright. I'll go with 4890 CF. Don't take it personal HellasVagabond, your advice on the GeForce series really got me thinking. But in the end, I'll stick with ATI.

Thanks again all of you!

 

[aetneerg]

Alright. I'll go with 4890 CF. Don't take it personal HellasVagabond, your advice on the GeForce series really got me thinking. But in the end, I'll stick with ATI.

Thanks again all of you!

Good choice, I would've recommended 4890 CF or GTX 295 for dual card solutions. When you own a Crossfire board it doesn't make sense to buy one GTX 280 or 285. You run into the trouble of going SLI later to only spend more money for another motherboard and another card. The only real solution here is to buy 4890 CF or a GTX 295. But don't take it personal Nvidia fanboys, I hate Nvidia chipsets but I like their cards. I'll stick with my Intel chipsets, maybe one day Nvidia will license their SLI technology to Intel. Then we don't have to worry about Crossfire or SLI boards (but I doubt it'll ever happen).

 

[HellasVagabond]

The X58 by Intel Supports SLI....So i guess you are a little behind on that....

And i dont care what people buy, i am just stating the obvious. Later on however if my points get more real to some people well it will be too late.

 

[crtecha]

I say go for it dude. I think my 4850's will be here today!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

 

[grunt_408]

Just do it.... You will have double the GPU power I have

 

[MRCL]

The X58 by Intel Supports SLI....So i guess you are a little behind on that....

And i dont care what people buy, i am just stating the obvious. Later on however if my points get more real to some people well it will be too late.

Well I won't whine around if it turns out you were right. I stay behind possbile mistakes.

I say go for it dude. I think my 4850's will be here today!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

Nice man! Have fun with them

 

[LuxZg]

Hellas, it's nothing personal man... here are few more words for you..

330W for a single HD4890 system is based on my own system. Complete, user system. With HD4870 it had 310W peak consumption. I gave it +20W for HD4890. Adding another HD4890 can add 120W, so total is 450W. Still 200W left for extra drives, add-in cards, overclocking both GPU and CPU, and so on. Plenty man, plenty.. AMD says 500W recommended for single HD4870 card, and I've seen it peaking at just 310W in overclocked system. They say 750W is enough for dual HD4870s, but they always overdo it by few hundered watts.. Here, Sapphire says 600W is enough for HD4890 Crossfire! http://www.sapphiretech.com/ge/products/products_overview.php?gpid=298&grp=3 (scroll to the very bottom)

OK, now let's talk temperatures.. Temperatures are directly influenced by power consumption of hardware, which is in part released as heat, right? So let's see..
HD4890 = 120W load -> http://xbitlabs.com/articles/video/display/radeon-hd4890_6.html#sect0
GTX295 = 214W load -> http://xbitlabs.com/articles/video/display/evga-geforce-gtx295_7.html#sect0

So if single HD4890 is 120W, dual is 240W, that's 26W higher than GTX295. But Crossfire HD4890 has two fans, and they have more space between them, better airflow, bigger total size of heatsinks, total of six heatpipes, and all that - and all of this results in better cooling system. So do you really think GTX295 adds much less heat to complete system than two HD4890 cards? 26W is a small difference to start with, and with a better cooling it could even result in less heat inside your system, specialy in a well ventilated case (which MRCL said he does have).

And finaly, about sound.. Like it was said already few times, sound does not just add up. First off, 41dB vs 45dB is not 41+10%=45. Here, read this one: http://www.exair.com/en-US/wiki/Wiki Pages/sound levels.aspx
In a rough "translation" sound levels rise sharply, so 45db is notably louder than 41dB.

Also, when adding up levels of sound, it's not 41+41=82 .. see this page, which actualy has calculator in it: http://www.sengpielaudio.com/calculator-spl.htm
Believe it or not, 41+41=44 No, even I didn't know it.. but mathematicaly, seems like 2xHD4890 is more silent than GTX295. Ofcourse if measurements are really true, and they amount to 41dB and 45dB accordingly.

If you have any more questions or doubts, please feel free to post here. It's not about graphics cards at all, it's about understanding physics laws and calculating with right numbers and formulas.

Oh, and I forgot to put in conclusion to this post
Conclusion:
- 650W PSU is really much more than enough
- temperatures or amount of heat isn't problem either, no more than with GTX295
- sound levels will be around same as GTX295, maybe little lower, maybe little higher, hard to say EXACTLY, but they will be close enough not to matter

And MRCL, you've posted while I was writing this - glad you've made a decision Have fun with those babies!

 

[dccmadams]

I think he should buy whatever he wants. I liked my gtx 285, gtx 260 216 55nm cards very much. I wanted to try the new ati cards because I already had a cf mobo. I am pleased with the overall experience. If I had a hugh noise or heat problem, I would send them back or sell them and go back to what I had with nvidia. I am pleased with this setup, and I believe anyone else will be happy with the results also. When nvidia or ati release the next best thing, I will try those out also. I am a fan of both camps.

 

[LuxZg]

dccmadams - I agree, it's his decision.. We just wanted to clear out unnecessary FUD..
Oh, and I'm not sure, I'm probably a bit too old.. but would you adopt me? I sure qouldn't mind being your son

 

[Hayder_Master]

There is no confirmation that ATI will be making an 4890x2.

most news say it is come , after all no problem 4870x2 will be good chose too only lower clocks than expect 4890x2 , with overclocking 4870x2 you can get close performance of the expect 4890x2

 

[HellasVagabond]

LuxZg i can't argue about physics, how loud they are i expect Mrcl to tell us once he gets them.

 

[MRCL]

LuxZg i can't argue about physics, how loud they are i expect Mrcl to tell us once he gets them.

Yeah I will report.

 

[TRIPTEX_CAN]

And if that wasn't enough Triptex posts a screenshot of his dual 4850s achieving a maximum of 35fps ( although a few posts back he said they went easily over 40fps ) with a far less depth of field than the one i placed but with the same exact quality settings.
Call a fanboy whoever you want guys, i really dont care. However facts are facts.

My test was ran on default settings (Enthusiast). Even after using some custom configs the game still looks the same. I question the validity of your screenshot and the settings you used. The depth of field (as you call it) in your screenshot just looks like a your shaders were set lower and your volumetric effects look poor.

I did not claim to get more than 40FPS. http://forums.techpowerup.com/showpost.php?p=1334626&postcount=31 I clearly said I can get more than 30 FPS. Don't put words in my mouth.. that's cheating.