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About to go all out on a "24TB ssd" hence 3x seagate archive 8TB SMR hdd drives in raid 0

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Had them laying around, two in the pc independently ( ntfs compression on, storage drives, terrible performance), another one new in stock, so of course I will make sure to have constant backup of the material, and mainly use the array for large game installs/ for performance/load times.
As with all my hdds, and even sata ssds, I will be caching them to a 300gb nvme partition for read/write as level 2, and level 1 is 16gb ram cache, using primo cache software.
Once the data is finished transferring, I will post the crystaldisk/ hdtune results.

sector size will be 8k, to avoid the 16tb windows limitation
 
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I just had to google urban dictionary for "ballin"
 

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I have a similar setup with my 24TB(well 30GB before RAID5), though I don't use an L1 because the data is too important to me. I just dedicate an entire 500GB SSD solely as cache. Works pretty well.
 

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huh? I thought these were HDDs, they make an 8TB SSD variant?
 
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No, of course not, I meant the combined raid 0 performance will be equivalent to a 24tb ssd( 750Mb/s read/ write). I have yet to prepare and benchmark it.
 
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Lol, maybe in select measures of speed, but you will have nowhere near the performance of a real 24tb SSD.
 
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Dont forget I have level 1 and level 2 read/write cache via 350GB nvme partition, 16gb of dedicated ram cache, so I am sure the responsiveness will be good.
 
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The amount of cache is irrelevant. To get 24tb of SSD you need to buy 24tb of SSD, there's no workaround.
 
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It's a hell of a workaround, mind you this is not an OS drive, I already have an nvme there, the page file is also on a different nvme.
I just need fast large game files to install and load, while all surrounding supporting drives are either nvme, ssd, or raid 0 of 7200rpm drives.
If I achieve this goal, I dont care if some random 4k or sequential read are not the exact match to a modern sata/ m.2 drive. If i have the data striped accross three drives , sharing the access speed, sequential read, and the workload, I am closer to this goal than a single 5900rpm drive alone.
 
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We often stay after hours in the office and play games together. Since our main app is CAD, every box is a great gaming box (and no ... 2D / 3D CAD does not benefit from workstation cards, they are actually slower). Every box has an SSD + SSHD with a backup OS on the SSHD also. You might see a difference if you sit there with a stopwatch but having done blind tests when we swith the boot drive from SSD to SSHD without telling anyone, nobody notices.

Here's a post from about 10 years ago ... nothing has changed. Havn't checked to see if all links are still viable ... been 10 years and all.

===================================================
SR Gaming DriveMark 2002 Single Drive = 519 IO/sec RAID 0 = 529 IO/sec

Western Digital's Raptors in RAID-0: Are two drives better than one?

"If you haven't gotten the hint by now, we'll spell it out for you: there is no place, and no need for a RAID-0 array on a desktop computer. The real world performance increases are negligible at best and the reduction in reliability, thanks to a halving of the mean time between failure, makes RAID-0 far from worth it on the desktop."

".....we did not see an increase in FPS through its use. Load times for levels and games was significantly reduced utilizing the Raid controller and array. As we stated we do not expect that the majority of gamers are willing to purchase greater than 4 drives and a controller for this kind of setup. While onboard Raid is an option available to many users you should be aware that using onboard Raid will mean the consumption of CPU time for this task and thus a reduction in performance that may actually lead to worse FPS. An add-on controller will always be the best option until they integrate discreet Raid controllers with their own memory into consumer level motherboards."

However, many have tried to justify/overlook those shortcomings by simply saying "It's faster." Anyone who does this is wrong, wasting their money, and buying into hype. Nothing more.

The real-world performance benefits possible in a single-user PC situation is not a given for most people, because the benefits rely on multiple independent, simultaneous requests. One person running most desktop applications may not see a big payback in performance because they are not written to do asynchronous I/O to disks. Understanding this can help avoid disappointment.

What about performance? This, we suspect, is the primary reason why so many users doggedly pursue the RAID 0 "holy grail." This inevitably leads to dissapointment by those that notice little or no performance gain.....As stated above, first person shooters rarely benefit from RAID 0.__ Frame rates will almost certainly not improve, as they are determined by your video card and processor above all else. In fact, theoretically your FPS frame rate may decrease, since many low-cost RAID controllers (anything made by Highpoint at the tiem of this writing, and most cards from Promise) implement RAID in software, so the process of splitting and combining data across your drives is done by your CPU, which could better be utilized by your game. That said, the CPU overhead of RAID0 is minimal on high-performance processors.

Even the HD manufacturers limit RAID's advantages to very specific applications and non of them involves gaming:
===================================================

If load times bother you ..... an investment in SSDs is the solution. I find that the PC is always ready for me before I am ready for it. After launching the game, I'm loading web pages, launching discord, plugging on my headphone dongle, unplugging the charging cord, putting on headphones other game aids on my 2nd screen and the game is sitting there waiting before Im ready. And of course, I take advantage of the break between work and play, by taki ng a bio, getting a snack or sammie or whatever.
 
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You are quoting articles that focus on desktop usage, gaming performance itself(not loading), OS boot time, general use, those things may benefit from lower latency , sometimes not so much with raid. But SUSTAINED TRANSFER RATE for LARGE files, which is what i need, due to having a backlog of multi TB of game files, incl. steam library; is where the raid-0 performance to be found, and the more drives the better. I explained I'm already covered for gaming performance , cpu overhead, OS load time, many small files and latencies. Countless youtube benches show the transfer rates close to ssd, also here's a related topic
 
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You are quoting articles that focus on desktop usage, gaming performance itself(not loading), OS boot time, general use, those things may benefit from lower latency , sometimes not so much with raid. But SUSTAINED TRANSFER RATE for LARGE files, which is what i need, due to having a backlog of multi TB of game files, incl. steam library; is where the raid-0 performance to be found, and the more drives the better. I explained I'm already covered for gaming performance , cpu overhead, OS load time, many small files and latencies. Countless youtube benches show the transfer rates close to ssd, also here's a related topic
RAID 5 would be an infinitely better/safer RAID array. RAID 0 is extremely risky. One drive failure of any kind often renders the entire array unreadable and unrecoverable. I'm going to repeat a catch-phrase I've been telling clients for decades; "Buy yourself an extra drive, go RAID 5." Thank yourself later.
 
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Of course, I know, but that disk space would be kind of wasted, and as I already have external backups, a separate NAS pc, and mostly intend to install games on the array, nothing too important, It will still be money spent on the drive, but I will certainly consider it for the future if any other files go there. The 3 drives are mostly identical, manufactured around the same time, and are supposed to have high MTBF. BTW, in RAID 5 any drive can fail and be replaced, or the parity data is all on the same backup drive which must not fail? also how is the speed affected by four drives/ access time.
 
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BTW, in RAID 5 any drive can fail and be replaced, or the parity data is all on the same backup drive which must not fail? also how is the speed affected by four drives/ access time.
Any one drive can fail as parity and redundant data is spread across multiple drives. The array will still function(at degraded performance) with the failed drive until it can be replaced. Once replaced, depending on the controller and config, the array will either auto-repair itself or prompt the user to start the repair process. RAID 6 takes a similar approach to redundancy and up to two drives can fail without data loss in the array. RAID 5 requires a minimum of 3 drives to function and you loose the capacity of one drive to the parity and data redundancy functions, RAID 6 requires a minimum of 4 and you loose the capacity of two drives.
 
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I see,
i guess it's either buy more drives now, or backup more often.
Might need to turn on macrium incremental backup on volumes other than the OS as well.
 
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I see,
i guess it's either buy more drives now, or backup more often.
Might need to turn on macrium incremental backup on volumes other than the OS as well.
If, like you stated above, you're not using the array for critical data storage, then the performance advantage of RAID 0 will be useful. However, if you don't want to risk data loss, buying one more drive like the ones you have already(for a total of four) and using RAID 5 will provide the best balance between increased performance and data safety while maintaining the total storage capacity you desire. The reality is, reliability of modern drive is leaps and bounds higher and better than it was when RAID hardware and schemes were invented. While still certainly useful, it's not as critical as much to consumer and prosumer sectors as it was when drives were less reliable.
 
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update:
The raid worked a few days, tested with hd tach( in order to avoid the primo cache making eroneous results- like the speed of the ram/nvme), the burst speed of the array was 330MB/s, the average speed across the entire disk was 200MB/s.
However, the array collapsed then, with the event viewer stating "Reset to device, \Device\RaidPort1, was issued."
I narrowed it down to one of the disks, which had a different firmware version than the other two, and as archive shingled magnetic recording drives are not recommended for raid, the issue manifested itself.
So now I made a new array of two drives, the third one is separated and is a normal backup drive.
The sequential performance is a bit lower, but I hope they will be able to be stable for game installs(16TB raid 0 array).
I will mention that i have another array in the pc, made of 2x toshiba 5TB 7200 rpm identical drives,(10TB for game installs), and it has been running problem free for a long while now.
 
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What a twist. HDD Raid array has issues and is not that fast.
 

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update:
The raid worked a few days, tested with hd tach( in order to avoid the primo cache making eroneous results- like the speed of the ram/nvme), the burst speed of the array was 330MB/s, the average speed across the entire disk was 200MB/s.
However, the array collapsed then, with the event viewer stating "Reset to device, \Device\RaidPort1, was issued."
I narrowed it down to one of the disks, which had a different firmware version than the other two, and as archive shingled magnetic recording drives are not recommended for raid, the issue manifested itself.
So now I made a new array of two drives, the third one is separated and is a normal backup drive.
The sequential performance is a bit lower, but I hope they will be able to be stable for game installs(16TB raid 0 array).
I will mention that i have another array in the pc, made of 2x toshiba 5TB 7200 rpm identical drives,(10TB for game installs), and it has been running problem free for a long while now.
I bet you are going to continue to have issues with those SMR drives in RAID. The controller expects write commands to finish in a given time, or TLER to report to the controller that the write command has been received and the drive is processing it. However, SMR drives have an extremely low write speed once the small area they have reserved that isn't SMR that is used as a write cache is exhausted. When that cache is full and the write speed suddenly drops off, the RAID controller is going to see that as a drive failing and the array will fail. It's just a sad reality with these SMR drives.

Since you have Primocache anyway, you'd probably be better off setting all the drives up as a JBOD. Most controllers running in JBOD mode don't care about how fast the drives respond, as long as they do eventually respond. You won't get the sequential write/read speeds, but Primocache should be absorbing most of the read/write speeds anyway in real world use, because sequential read/write speeds really mean nothing to most real world usage.
 
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what intrigues me, is the drive dropped out when pc was idle, it simply became unallocated. I was not using the array and nothing latest was written to it. I suspect it has to do with windows idle trying to optimize or defragment the volume. I will now opt out of this, for now no bad storachi logs in event log at all.
I was at the time tempted to buy those SMR drives without really knowing their write performance. So containing nothing critical, I will see how they behave from this point on.
 

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I have a 30TB array via iSCSI on a windows volume and defrag/optimize it at regular intervals. Trust me its not windows.
 
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Software windows 10 x64 1903 ,enterprise
Benchmark Scores fire strike ultra- 10k time spy- 15k cpu z- 400/15000
The 16tb 2x drive array seems to run trouble free. However, I was concerned regarding cpu overhead, wondering whether it matters if I use intel RST suite/bios/ for the raid setup, or as current config, via windows disk management. Will using the bios mean hardware raid, also what is more fault tolerant towards the drives?
 
Joined
Sep 17, 2014
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Location
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Processor i7 8700k 4.7Ghz @ 1.26v
Motherboard AsRock Fatal1ty K6 Z370
Cooling beQuiet! Dark Rock Pro 3
Memory 16GB Corsair Vengeance LPX 3200/C16
Video Card(s) MSI GTX 1080 Gaming X @ 2100/5500
Storage Samsung 850 EVO 1TB + Samsung 830 256GB + Crucial BX100 250GB + Toshiba 1TB HDD
Display(s) Eizo Foris FG2421
Case Fractal Design Define C TG
Power Supply EVGA G2 750w
Mouse Logitech G502 Protheus Spectrum
Keyboard Sharkoon MK80 (Brown)
Software W10 x64
For a gaming backlog... kudos for all the effort and sharing, but I fail to see the value of doing this entirely.

Do you play 24TB of games at a time? I mean... a game install takes what, 3-10 minutes these days with a half decent SSD and CPU, depending on game size. Older games take ... well if you don't blink you might get to see the green bar move left to right before it finishes.

Or is this mostly just the 'can-do' idea of it?
 
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