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Activ cooling on VDM

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I heard rumours about 570 mobo will have active cooling on VRM´s , have any other heard that ?.
 
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No one can say for certain yet. They more than likely won’t on the vast majority of models. I suspect that only the super high-end boards will have active cooling.
 
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Makes me wonder why? If the VRMs get so hot they need additional cooling, I would rather see larger heatsinks and good case cooling.

One of the reasons large (140mm and larger) case fans became so popular is they tend to move massive amounts of air in near or even total silence. Smaller (80mm and smaller - especially 40mm fans which I envision here) fans have to spin much faster to move adequate amounts of air and that typically results in annoying fan noise.

I hope they come up with something else beside active cooling.
 
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It's been done before, like with the X299 dark. Ryzen boards, I'm not sure. I *feel* like there have actually been a couple, but I can't remember.

But I agree with Bill here. Not into tiny fans. I've done it before and it does work. Just not my favorite solution. I'd much rather just see some more functional heatsinks with some actual fins. You can put fancy plastic or even carved out aluminum bits on top here and there... even work in some RGB. It's all doable in a well-performing VRM cooling solution. But make sure there are fins that can catch air passing over. This, in itself would be better than all of those flat-faced aluminum chunks with 3 or 4 thick 'fins' on one side of them.

It's like... there is a lot of room for improvement without going active. So if there's a need for better VRM cooling, why not start with the less costly, less failure-prone, less annoying options?

I don't see it happening outside of maybe some crazy HEDT board. OR maybe we'll see a couple of 'pro' overclocker boards that feature it as a selling point. Does your typical Ryzen setup even need active VRM cooling? Most people, with most current Ryzens, will hit a wall elsewhere before VRM temps become a problem. It can happen, but you would think a sufficient power section with decent heatsinks in a reasonably well-ventilated case would be more than enough. Unless Ryzen 3 is significantly more power-hungry... I don't know. I don't want to pay the added cost for active VRM cooling that I probably won't need at all. The irony is that the boards that would most need active cooling... the ones with weak VRM's, will probably never get the active cooling. All the same, so many other features I'd rather see in an X570.
 
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ut I agree with Bill here. Not into tiny fans.
In the past, many board makers used to use those small 40mm fans on chipsets. They had to spin so fast, they whined and produced a din that rose above the noise of the CPU and GPU fans. Another problem with them spinning so fast is that resulted in the bearings wearing out faster. So before long, not only was there the noise of the spinning fans, but soon there was the grinding, vibrating noise of the worn bearings - which eventually would seize. :(

I was glad when they started using passive cooling (bigger heatsinks).
 
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In the past, many board makers used to use those small 40mm fans on chipsets. They had to spin so fast, they whined and produced a din that rose above the noise of the CPU and GPU fans. Another problem with them spinning so fast is that resulted in the bearings wearing out faster. So before long, not only was there the noise of the spinning fans, but soon there was the grinding, vibrating noise of the worn bearings - which eventually would seize. :(

I was glad when they started using passive cooling (bigger heatsinks).
Haha, I have seen those boards! Up until recently I thought it was one of those loopy things board makers did back in the day to upsell. Even 8 years ago, when I was building the most I ever had, I don't remember ever seeing one available. Always figured there was a reason for that. I'm sure there were a few, but apparently it wasn't very popular by then, even. Maybe I just blocked it out. I honestly don't remember.

One thing I remember that I would rather see FIRST are actual heatsinks with real finstacks and heatpipes. Probably not up to a lot of people's aesthetic sensibilities these days though, heh.

Hell, I'd settle for what we had not all that long ago. Heatsinks were still just aluminum blocks like they are now, but often they would carve a "C" shape or some other open-ended shape into them. And then across the length of them would be cuts going through them like sliced bread, just stopping at the base. So you would have basically this block cut into rows of claws maybe 1/8" or 3/16" thick. Those still had mass to carry a lot of heat, but also a lot more surface area with more air passing through, and in those contact areas, heat was dispersed quicker. I'll never understand why we got away from that. You still see it sometimes, but not nearly enough. Personally I thought they looked great and no doubt they cooled much better than these huge blocks where heat has to crawl through all of this mass before ever meeting air. And even at that point, the total surface area meeting air is deceptively small. Much more mass to pick up heat than there is surface area to free it.

I guess they figure that works because outside of very heavy, prolonged loads, they may never saturate and run away. Actually, I'd be interested to see how long it takes these solid "soap bar" style heatsinks you see everywhere to bottleneck, and what temperature they wind up being at that point. For all I know I'm wrong and it's fine.
 
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Haha, I have seen those boards! Up until recently I thought it was one of those loopy things board makers did back in the day to upsell.
No. It used to be fairly common way back in the day because case makers did not design in or build in good case cooling to keep up with the growing cooling demands of the newer hardware that was going inside those cases. Many cases back in the day had support for just a single 80mm case fan to move air through the case. In really budget systems, cases relied only the PSU fan! :(
 
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No. It used to be fairly common way back in the day because case makers did not design in or build in good case cooling to keep up with the growing cooling demands of the newer hardware that was going inside those cases. Many cases back in the day had support for just a single 80mm case fan to move air through the case. In really budget systems, cases relied only the PSU fan! :(
Wow, I can't even imagine! I'm sure there was a lot more creativity involved in making a high-powered build work when things were like that, back when it was fringe to build machines like that. What timeframe are we talking? Even my first midrange pre-built in ~2003 had an 80mm exhaust and side panel fan (maybe 120mm?) I know my first real build in 2005 or 2006 had TWO 80mm exhausts and a 120mm side intake, and that was a crappy $30 cheepo depot Apevia. God those cases were awful, too!

Would love to see how people got around that. A few things come to mind. But whichever way you went, there had to be some real effort and risk involved. Makes me really question the validity of common complaints these days. Maybe we just don't know how good we have it... to be at a point where you can pick from an impossibly large number of cases from really cheap to high-end, toss in an inexpensive aftermarket cooler, a few decent fans, dial in your max overclock, and never worry. It's so routine that I can't even fathom things ever having been any different. Cooling is a really simple thing to get right now... to the point where even if you get it kind of wrong, it usually still works. I wonder just how many builders today could work under those sorts of limitations?

But you know... that really makes me think active VRM cooling is antiquated all the more. It's an option if you water cool I suppose, but wouldn't you rather still have a board with good heatsinks and a substantial enough VRM that your case flow covers it? I don't know. I feel like a VRM section that's adequate for what it's powering probably should never need a loud little fan. Basic cooling should be enough - which is probably why even with the chunky, oft inefficient heatsinks we have now, you never hear of VRM's cooking.

Just seems gimmicky to me. Perhaps the time for such solutions has passed? Maybe it's because I'm not a hardcore overclocker. But then, those types come up with their own methods anyway. I just wonder who dinky integrated VRM fans would be for. If your aim is to push the limits, you're probably already very comfortable and interested in modifying your setups anyway. For everyone else, it's just a silly bit of peace-of-mind. IMO, anyway.

Just want to add, it's always interesting to hear how things were from someone who was really in it before my time. I appreciate your posts as a way of gleaning information too far back to easily dig up on my own.


Back to this rumor... I'd be curious as to why this would be done. It's hard to imagine there being a need... especially if it does turn out that older boards will accommodate new Ryzens. If those, with the VRM's people love to criticize could handle the top-end ones perfectly adequately (which you could argue it's bad practice to drop a high-end chip into a basic board - I definitely wouldn't do it, but still - it won't actually cook,) why would Ryzen 3 be any different? It's not like we're suddenly going to be back in the FX era. Sticking to what we do know, there's not much reason to believe the new Ryzen lineup will be any more power-hungry than the current ones. Why assume that the power needs are gonna be that much higher that somehow branching off on VRM solutions is necessary? I know mobo manufacturers tend not to want to cut into margins when they can help it. Why go through the trouble when current designs have already proven sufficient? Even the under-built ones tend to work okay, even for the 2700's. I can only really see this happening with the stuff beyond the regular consumer lineup... but even the ones we have now tend not to need such measures.

And I mean... when you do see hardcore overclocking and high-end motherboards, AMD OR Intel, they tend to overbuild the power sections instead of going harder on cooling than they do with any other board, with only a handful of exceptions. Still the same blocky heatsinks (well, sometimes they're better designed with more expensive machining work + more RGB...) just more complex, cooler-running VRM's underneath. I suppose they figure that better ensures proper operation under a wider variety of conditions and loads. Personally, I'd rather that than a VRM that's going to operate closer to the max power it can safely deliver and then be cooled down after the fact. Just seems more intuitive to me for them to not heat up as much in the first place. If you're going to build an overkill board, make sure it's distributed where it counts. Even if a weaker VRM could work and be cooled, it's much nicer to have real operational headroom than mere temperature headroom. Latter case just means you're no longer temperature limited. Doesn't mean you can't be held down by sheer power delivery capabilities. VRM's often overheat because they're not cooled adequately... but what about if they're simply being worked too hard? Cooling can't fully cover that.

I guess when we're talking overbuilt boards it makes sense. Just a "might as well" thing at that point. But for the consumer lineup, I'm not seeing it. Or at least I kinda hope not to. Though honestly aside from the PCIE changes and maybe a few minor refinements, I don't see X570's turning out very different from X470's or X370's. You'll get many of the same components and layouts, only with current gen features.
 
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What timeframe are we talking?
Well, I've been working with "PCs" since the IBM PC and with computers for several years before that when I actually stood inside one.
Just want to add, it's always interesting to hear how things were from someone who was really in it before my time. I appreciate your posts as a way of gleaning information too far back to easily dig up on my own.
Gee - thanks for making me feel really old now! ;)
 
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My Asrock X79 Extreme 11 has a small chipset fan too, and it's inaudible sitting next to it.
 
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well i remember having a little turbo fan i was much happy about, it could fit all the VDM´s
 
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Fans that are 20 dB or lower I would consider to be near silent.
The problem is, fan noise is cumulative. That is, even in a quality, sound deadening case, while the noise from one fan may be too low to hear, you start adding the CPU fan, the GPU fan (or 2 or 3 GPU fans), the PSU fan, and a couple (or 3 or 4) case and/or radiator fans, then you start to hear (and sometimes feel) the rumble of all those fans - even if quality fans with good bearings and running at low RPMs.

Now usually I have my music blaring from my surround sound speakers so fan noise is not a problem. But sometimes I don't so then the noise bugs me. But that's just me going back to my first love in consumer electronics, audiophile quality audio gear.
 
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