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AdoredTV at it again - Over an hour long video about Nvidia's business practices.

the54thvoid

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Evil company makes items to let grown adults play games. And also creates arguably the best cards for HPC and scientific research into cancer cures and other beneficial causes.
Bad Nvidia...
 
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Evil company makes items to let grown adults play games. And also creates arguably the best cards for HPC and scientific research into cancer cures and other beneficial causes.
Bad Nvidia...
My toy is broken,so I demand you break yours. Now we're even.
 
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I considered NVIDIA shady since they created closed-source CUDA and bought out Aegia.

CUDA is technically partially closed source , though in fact there wouldn't be much to be gained from having it fully open source.
 
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AdoredTV, yeah... A lot of time there is so much honey dripping off the screen when bloke is talking AMD that I have to clean the room 5 times. Its certainly not my prime destination when learning about stuff. I was watching it few times after Ryzen and then Threadripper hit the market. He did good materials on boards for TR4 in one block instead chopping and jumping between channels and that's about it. However...

Guy is so blinded to the shades of grey that its very difficult to take a lot (most?) of his "research" seriously. Hard fact is: every single corporation would do that the same thing if it was in nVidia place. Swap AMD where NVidia and nVidia for AMD is and channel would be: nVidia AdoredTV then...

So put at least 5 tons of salt for every ton of honey and sugar he puts in front of you. Remove the blinkers and think for yourself. If anything AdTV is very entertaining comedy channel a lot of times. Guy have good grasp of "propaganda machine". :D AMD incarnation of Lord Haw-Haw (no offense, just a joke)
 
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Guy is so blinded to the shades of grey that its very difficult to take a lot (most?) of his "research" seriously.

It's not really research , he's just stating facts and inferring things from them. All of you get annoyed by him because you don't understand there's nothing more to it.
 
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Don’t blame your own failure on others success. Survival of the fittest. You got good tech you got good lawyers you profit, simple capitalism.
AMD had better hardware in the Athlon days, and we all know how Intel played that, and the epilogue of it.
 
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AMD had better hardware in the Athlon days, and we all know how Intel played that, and the epilogue of it.

They had better and cheaper hardware on the GPU side as well during the first and second gen Kepler days. Nvidia steered the industry , market and the press into a direction where they could still win no matter what.

I remember how ridiculous the reviews were for the 290X, reviewers didn't like it because it was very power hungry and hot (less than 10% more power vs the first Titan) and it didn't have a fancy metal shroud and quieter fan.
 
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They had better and cheaper hardware on the GPU side as well during the Kepler and first gen GCN days. Nvidia steered the industry , market and the press into a direction where they could still win no matter what.
I think they were on par during first GCNs, but they did have superior products in the 5000 series. It's funny how every time AMD is close to 50% market share, "something" happens, to give the competitors and edge. Food for thought.
 
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There is the usual crowd here jumping up and down on Nvidias side , and not one single fact in the video rebutted by Fact because it's still ,The truth.
I agree with buy what you want to, but as has been said missinform and expect a debate, note the paid shills in forum's are very likely still a thing , I'm not accusing with that point just stating facts.
 
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I'`m about half way thru the video. Ok nVidia and Intel are bad.
But as a consumer, who bought a Freesync monitor in 2016 to run a AMD card, i' waiting still for a AMD card to buy. RX 480 is inferior to my 980 Ti. DirectX 12 or Vulkan games have not major advantage to DX11. Vega is expensive compared to the price and power consumption compared to nVidia.
There is no 3rd player on the GPU market. SO what the F*** am i supposed to buy to boycott Nvidia ?
 
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But as a consumer, who bought a Freesync monitor in 2016 to run a AMD card

Freesync is open source and free to use. Ironically enough , you can thank Nvidia as well for this situation and for their refusal to support it. They really are sacrificing the expansion and availability of variable refresh rate technology to more consumers in an effort to maximize their profits.
 
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I'`m about half way thru the video. Ok nVidia and Intel are bad.
But as a consumer, who bought a Freesync monitor in 2016 to run a AMD card, i' waiting still for a AMD card to buy. RX 480 is inferior to my 980 Ti. DirectX 12 or Vulkan games have not major advantage to DX11. Vega is expensive compared to the price and power consumption compared to nVidia.
There is no 3rd player on the GPU market. SO what the F*** am i supposed to buy to boycott Nvidia ?
Nobody is asking you to boycott anyone.

The video exists so that as a more educated consumer you can take these things into account when deciding to purchase a product.

A lot of people in this thread are very short term minded, and I don't blame them for the fact Nvidia presently makes superior product. However I will absolutely blame them for the fact that they seem to think that absolves Nvidia of wrongdoing and exploitative or monopolistic business practices. Those things should be part of the landscape of deciding to make a purchase. If the benefits outweigh the negatives then yes, buy the product. But don't assume that because the benefits outweight the negatives, that means the negatives don't exist.

I have an Intel and Nvidia based system myself, but I am absolutely in favour of AMD having a stronger market position versus both of those companies, because as we're seeing with HEDT right now, competition breeds MASSIVELY faster product improvement, and lower pricing for consumers.
 

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There is the usual crowd here jumping up and down on Nvidias side ,

And the opposite is also true...

Also, not quoting you but @Vya Domus instead, do you recall when AMD went honey-nut-loops crazy about Fermi's power draw? Nvidia was hugely 'roasted' about that Fermi blunder. So on your part, it's massively disingenuous to say the 290X power draw and heat issues were unfair. In fact, it was Fermi that brought Nvidia to where it is. They dropped the hot'n'hungry hippo that was compute (and mostly unnecessary for games) and increased clocks. They went leaner. Then AMD dropped the ball with the first HD7970 (should've released the GHz edition) and they stopped being budget friendly. Nvidia released the now historically odd GK104 (GTX680) and not a GK100.

That whole episode allowed Nvidia to release the not so top tech card as the initial enthusiast part, raking in the $$$, at the same time AMD tried and failed to match it (and in some cases they did, but in the perf/watt metric (and acoustic), they were losing big time. Plus, while we're being factually accurate, the crossfire issues AMD had meant incorrect fps measures (read: inflated performance results) that meant I dumped 2 x 7970's and haven't been back to AMD since (not for GPU anyway). They fixed CF but the damage was done.

No matter what shady practices are shown, AMD, with its popular exploitative PR machine tends to keep aiming at its own foot. Jokes about Fermi being hot - then releases super hot'n'hungry chips itself. Recent 'Poor Volta' viral PR stunts, whoops! And the list goes on.

We all want AMD to get it right, hell, or else I hope Intel does in 2020. All I know is, I won't move from my 1080ti until I absolutely need to because the inflated prices are the biggest crime.

And I can't watch the video because, as a Scot, that accent is an aberration of dialect... Sorry dude.
 
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Also, not quoting you but @Vya Domus instead, do you recall when AMD went honey-nut-loops crazy about Fermi's power draw? Nvidia was hugely 'roasted' about that Fermi blunder. So on your part, it's massively disingenuous to say the 290X power draw and heat issues were unfair. In fact, it was Fermi that brought Nvidia to where it is. They dropped the hot'n'hungry hippo that was compute (and mostly unnecessary for games) and increased clocks. They went leaner. Then AMD dropped the ball with the first HD7970 (should've released the GHz edition) and they stopped being budget friendly. Nvidia released the now historically odd GK104 (GTX680) and not a GK100.

GTX 480 used close to or more than 100W watts compared to the 5870 , we are talking about such a horrendous power draw metric that AMD's dual GPU 5970 still used less power. If you think that me calling out the press for grossly exaggerating about how 10% more power draw is a deal breaker for a product that is cheaper and just as fast is "massively disingenuous" then all all I have to say is that you simply fail to put things into perspective and as such your perception is just thoroughly skewed.

This conclusion of yours that it's "fair" without properly looking at the context is honestly yet another confirmation as to how much has Nvidia managed to screw with the market.
 
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You know why AMD couldn't deliver the best products in recent times? Because they have been struggling with acquiring enough R&D money. And talking sh*t about their products, blaming them for anything nVidia does wrong, and so on, certainly won't help them becoming competitive on the high end again.

Buy the card that best suits you, I don't care, but don't spread misinformation*. Change the mindshare (AMD sucks*) and in long term everyone wins, it's really simple.

* this is not directed at you specifically, but spoken generally ...

The reason AMD couldn't deliver is because they decided not to deliver. Its really that simple and its really obvious as well. If you can read between the lines and judge the product at face value, they even say so themselves. - Polaris: 'We will focus on the midrange where volume of sales is highest'. Vega: 'we are primarily making a HPC product, not a gaming GPU'. GCN: 'we need an architecture not specifically for gaming but for everything'.

Its entirely their own fault their GPU division is where it is. Nvidia doesn't have anything to do with that. In the meantime, Nvidia just does what it does best: refinement after refinement that translates to solid products that are very cost effective and lucrative for them at every price point. Nvidia's approach has made them money. AMD's approach has been ruining their margins ever since they acquired ATI. What follows is a fanbase that takes everything AMD says for granted, keeps looking at 'the next best thing' that, every time it gets to market, is already obsolete or never really translates to performance or the revolutiionary change in the landscape. I mean look at DX11 > Mantle / DX12 and éven Vulkan. When the RX480 arrived and the refreshed driver model got traction, everyone yelled 'omg look at the DX12 perf'. Today, nobody cares about any sort of difference in DX12 performance between Nvidia and AMD. Simply because in the end, it never really translated to noticeable performance differences, but AMD managed to fix the discrepancy in performance on DX11 (or in fact, the API fixes it for them). There is not ONE situation where an AMD card of a lower tier gets to a performance level of an Nvidia card that is one or half- a tier above it.

Its a great example of how the AMD fanbase keeps inflating arguments to 'improve the AMD mindshare'... but its counterproductive because every time we see the actual product and performance, it is a letdown. Between Hawaii, Fury X and Vega, all of the high end GPUs were overinflated and performed 'meh' in a big way. Be it on temps, relative performance, OC capability, noisy stock coolers and crappy AIOs or very bad hardware optimization with Vega; there's always something substantial failing.

In the end thát is what people remember, and they also see an AMD crowd that follows up with a myriad of fixes and workarounds 'to make it better'. Here's the kicker: 95% of all consumers doesn't want to make it better, they just want it working right out of the box. It would serve AMD a lot better if people slowed the hype train, especially the fans themselves. Its no longer credible and it actually never really was.

Note, I talk of fans - not fanboys - this is never intended to spark that worthless back and forth. Its just the trend that I'm seeing when it comes to 'mindshare'.

Nobody is asking you to boycott anyone.

The video exists so that as a more educated consumer you can take these things into account when deciding to purchase a product.

A lot of people in this thread are very short term minded, and I don't blame them for the fact Nvidia presently makes superior product. However I will absolutely blame them for the fact that they seem to think that absolves Nvidia of wrongdoing and exploitative or monopolistic business practices. Those things should be part of the landscape of deciding to make a purchase. If the benefits outweigh the negatives then yes, buy the product. But don't assume that because the benefits outweight the negatives, that means the negatives don't exist.

I have an Intel and Nvidia based system myself, but I am absolutely in favour of AMD having a stronger market position versus both of those companies, because as we're seeing with HEDT right now, competition breeds MASSIVELY faster product improvement, and lower pricing for consumers.

This right here is a perfect example of how the support for AMD is harming them. The long term reality is that the company is NOT providing what it set out to provide, not three years ago, not two, and not one year ago. Not this year. And not even next year. What really needs to happen is for this ship to sink, and to get recovered by a company that IS willing and able to compete with Nvidia. A company also that knows how to play the market in the same, merciless way Nvidia does it.

All of that does not change anything about the fact that yes, when Nvidia 'is at it again' with blatant lies or misrepresented facts (3.5 GB & GPP, looking at you) they deserve the community backlash. And that backlash is effective. GPP is shot, and they lost a case on the 3.5GB. AdoredTV's whine and rant about this company has very little to add to that. The complaints about Gsync and Gameworks for example are ridiculous. Nothing stopped AMD from doing similar. Nvidia has made serious investments that pay off, and that is all that really is. Investments, also, that have improved gaming in real ways. FreeSync would not have existed if it wasn't for Gsync. Tech like TXAA and FXAA similarly are results of Gameworks that benefit us all. Nvidia has many engineers that go out to visit devs and support them to optimize performance. Those are real investments that deserve, and create real payoffs and its really odd to criticize a company for doing that, because 'its competitor doesn't do it'.
 
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I literally watched the whole video just few minutes ago
 

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GTX 480 used close to or more than 100W watts compared to the 5870 , we are talking about such a horrendous power draw metric that AMD's dual GPU 5970 still used less power. If you think that me calling out the press for grossly exaggerating about how 10% more power draw is a deal breaker for a product that is cheaper and just as fast is "massively disingenuous" then all all I have to say is that you simply fail to put things into perspective and as such your perception is just thoroughly skewed.

This conclusion of yours that it's "fair" without properly looking at the context is honestly yet another confirmation as to how much has Nvidia managed to screw with the market.


Okay, let'stalk about todays cards as well, to keep perspective.

GTX1080 = 166w
RX Vega = 292w

And arguably, Vega performs as well as a GTX1080.

So yes, I think a 128watt power draw difference for the same performance is relevant. But your penchant for argument makes you vulnerable to hypocrisy.

 
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I remember how ridiculous the reviews were for the 290X, reviewers didn't like it because it was very power hungry and hot (less than 10% more power vs the first Titan) and it didn't have a fancy metal shroud and quieter fan.

Can't hear u

 
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The reason AMD couldn't deliver is because they decided not to deliver. Its really that simple and its really obvious as well. If you can read between the lines and judge the product at face value, they even say so themselves. - Polaris: 'We will focus on the midrange where volume of sales is highest'. Vega: 'we are primarily making a HPC product, not a gaming GPU'. GCN: 'we need an architecture not specifically for gaming but for everything'.
They want to use same architecture on everything, competition to: nvidia's V100 (tesla/quadro), competitor to GP102 and GP104, cheap ass APUs, low-end APUs (intel hades canyon) and consoles.
This is the thing that makes me boycott AMD and support nvidia. Their "masterplan" to water down PC enthusiast market down to console level. Nvidia has a purely PC gaming oriented GPU line-up.
If it wasn't for nvidia's desire to introduce g-sync, we would never have freesync on PC, and in consequence never have it on console like it's now made possible. AMD wants to do things other way round. They do not give a crap about innovating pc gaming market if it doesn't at the same time mean they can profit with consoles.
 

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AdoredTV was fun for a short time, but when his videos pop-out frequently, you notice a heavy bias towards AMD.
Just for fun I watched some of his AMD-related "research" and it starts with something like talking about some "back in a day AMD fuckup" for 2 minutes and slowly gets siderolled into yet another 20-minute NVidia or Intel rant.

I considered NVIDIA shady since they created closed-source CUDA and bought out Aegia.
If NVidia did not acquire Ageia, it would end up in the same place as their Cellfactor Evolution. If you don't remember or if you are not familiar with it, it's a showcase game for PhysX accelerators. It started as a AAA game project with bad-ass graphics, lots of real-time physics, action-packed multiplayer etc. etc. Halfway through the development of both PhysX SDK and the game they've ran out of money cause no one wanted to spend $200+ on a PPU (with a final nail in a coffin being BFG going out of business). The game ended up being released years later as a generic C-grade PS3 shooter (really awkward considering it was originally built for PC), and the remaining PPUs became a collectors item even before they hit a "5-years since release" mark.

Plus, the argument about Cuda and Gameworks is pointless. It's their SDKs, and they are meant to work on their cards, with no obligation to optimize it for their competitors hardware. Gamedevs choose Gameworks, Hairworks or PhysX because it's available in a nice and intuitive package, it's free, it has a huge library of sample code. If AMD or Intel had an alternative, I'm sure devs would use it as soon as they can. ATM there's no alternatives. Havok is shareware and is currently buried in one of the MS backburner closets. TressFX is only a counterpart to Hairworks, and when it comes to other Gameworks alternatives - there is none.
Also, CUDA library has grown so much that you can find a ready-to-use library for pretty much anything. The only viable alternative to combat NV PhysX is an open-source Bullet physix, which only entered an early stage of testing OpenCL accelerated physics. And even then it may not become a silver bullet (pun intended), cause OpenCL's many layers of abstraction and aim at being "felxible and universal" makes it significantly slower than CUDA in most use cases.
 
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Okay, let'stalk about todays cards as well, to keep perspective.

Let's not , we were talking about something else. Seeing you trying to shift the focus to something else many years down the line in a completely different context just so you can find something that fits with your narrative is rather disappointing.
 
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Benchmark Scores A LOT
When will people learn that 10% hotter, 10% more power hungry and 10% slower still makes the 10% cooler, 10% less power hungry and 10% faster a better buy. When I had my 290X I still wanted a 780Ti like hell, but never once did I bitch and whine how unfair it was that reviewers still put nvidia on the pedestal or other people could afford it but I didn't.
 

qubit

Overclocked quantum bit
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I could only be bothered to watch about 30 seconds of this video, since it's clearly conspiracy trash. All that stuff about the company's name, puh-lease. :rolleyes:
 
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