Advice needed!

[sith'ari]

Hi guys.
I would very much appreciate your help, with an issue i'm having with my brother's pc.
His specs are:
1)Intel i5-760 s1156( https://ark.intel.com/products/48496/Intel-Core-i5-760-Processor-8M-Cache-2_80-GHz )
2)Gigabyte GA-P55-USB3 Motherboard
3) 16 GB RAM DDR3-1333MHz GSkill
4) Asus GTX1060 6GB Strix
5) WD 5003ABYX 500gb
6) Thermaltake Toughpower GRAND Platinum 850 PSU and....
7) Samsung UE32D6100 TV ( https://www.amazon.co.uk/Samsung-UE...004TB4W7I/ref=cm_cr_arp_d_product_top?ie=UTF8 )
My brother is totally "crazy" for F1 games, that's why i got him one of the most expensive racing wheels at the market, the Ferrari F1 wheel Thrustmaster Integral T500 ( http://www.thrustmaster.com/products/ferrari-f1-wheel-integral-t500 ).
The problem i'm facing is some sporadic stuttering when my brother plays the F1 2016 & the new F1 2017, which can be really frustrating if you play online with other players.
-I'm in total loss on what to blame.
I find it very unlikely to be a GPU fault since the STRIX GTX1060 6GB is only 1-year old GPU. (*although these games are mostly GPU-intensive i believe? , not sure )
-So, i'm considering the CPU or the TV, to be the most possible "suspects" for the stuttering, but which one is to blame?
Shall i buy a new G-SYNC Monitor, or should i buy a new i7-7700K-based system?
I can't do both at the same time due to financial restraints, so i would very much appreciate any help you could give me.
Thanks !!

 

[qubit]

That GPU could well be doing it. Also, that CPU is even older than my 2700K so would also tend to limit frames per second. You really need to replace both, with an emphasis on the GPU. Lower detail settings in the meantime and see if it improves.

Yes, a g-sync monitor could well help here too, but when playing online, the stutters can also be caused by that sometimes.

You must have vsync on to eliminate stutter, no way around it. You'll see people say otherwise, but they're all wrong.

That TV will accept a 60Hz video signal, so run www.fraps.com and check that the counter stays at 60 with vsync on. Any significant drops and you'll see stutter.

 

[sith'ari]

Thanks.
so, with a CPU & GPU changed, there will be no need to change the TV ?
I believe (*but i'll re-check) that my brother has lowered the settings but still the stuttering persists! I can't imagine a GTX1060 6GB STRIX to be unable to run this game smoothly with lower quality settings @1920x1080 !! ( https://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/ASUS/GTX_1060_STRIX_OC/13.html )

 

[Regeneration]

In Nvidia control panel, try to disable Shader Cache, set power management to Prefer Maximum Performance.

If it doesn't help, try to use a lower refresh rate, try to toggle C-states from the BIOS.

Poor/unstable internet connectivity can cause stuttering too.

Take in mind that i5-760 is a 7-year-old CPU... I suggest upgrading or extreme overclocking.

 

[qubit]

No, the display doesn't cause stutters. Try things in this order:

- ensure vsync is on. The Adaptive mode should be fine. FastSync sometimes causes stuttering
- run Fraps and monitor the frame counter
- turn off performance sucking effects like ambient occlusion, anti-aliasing, motion blur and turn on triple buffering in the driver
- if you're seeing frame drops then lower details and/or resolution and see if it improves. If so, then you want to replace that graphics card.

Oh, make sure you've got the latest driver installed too and that the power setting in the driver 3D settings are set for max performance.

Finally, the TV might have frame interpolation technology judging by the 200Hz in the product description. This always causes lag and can also cause stutter, so ensure it's switched off.

 

[sith'ari]

1) In Nvidia control panel, try to disable Shader Cache, set power management to Prefer Maximum Performance.
2)Also, try to toggle C-states in the BIOS.
3)Poor/unstable internet connectivity can cause stuttering too.

1) Will do, thanks.
3) No that's not a possibillity. Internet is stable. I forgot to mention that when my brother was playing the previous F1 2016, i had the same problem, which was solved when i changed the GPU (*from ASUS GTX780 Poseidon to the present GTX1060) . Based on my past experience, the GPU should be the prime suspect, but as i said at my 1st post, i could never imagine that a 1-year old mid-range GPU is unable to run a game smoothly @1920x1080 , even with lowered details!! That's what confused me the most, but i'll check what you said about NV control panel.
2) toggle C-state? can you explain little more?

Thanks a lot for your help guys!!
Tomorrow i'll check most of those you proposed and i'll report back with the results!!
I'm starting to believe that i'll end up changing again the GPU that i bought only few months ago!

 

[basco]

this game has stuttering probs since F1 2015 for some.
it´s a more graphic bound game.
i would not change out the 1060 because your cpu will in some ways hinder performance of stronger graphiccards. so just buying faster gpu will not always help if your system is not balanced.
so for me your next upgrade should be a better cpu.

there should be a ingame setting with streaming options-try it on low!

and i would try whithout vsync too if ya cannot hold the 60fps steady.

maybe qubit is on to something with your TV and 200hz?

http://forums.codemasters.com/discu...ing-at-high-refresh-rate-potential-workaround

these tips you can use for 2017 too:
http://www.forceclaw.com/tweaks/f1-...ontroller-issues-performance-fixes-amd-nvidia

 

[R00kie]

I would overclock that i5, provided you have sufficient cooling for it. the GPU should be fine.

 

[sith'ari]

Thanks for the help guys! I'll try few things and report the results! Thanks!

 

[niko084]

Vsync may cause more problems than it solves as it will hurt performance further. Another aspect I pickup on quickly with racing games is the frame delay that often occurs with vsync (remember old wireless controller latency?).

I would suggest capturing your FPS as well as CPU and GPU usage to determine if it's hardware bottleneck related.

The game may also have some issues with multiplayer smoothness, I have no direct experience with these titles but it's somewhat common across the genre so it maybe worth while to verify this occurs in single player modes as well.

 

[sith'ari]

Vsync may cause more problems than it solves as it will hurt performance further. Another aspect I pickup on quickly with racing games is the frame delay that often occurs with vsync (remember old wireless controller latency?).
I would suggest capturing your FPS as well as CPU and GPU usage to determine if it's hardware bottleneck related.
The game may also have some issues with multiplayer smoothness, I have no direct experience with these titles but it's somewhat common across the genre so it maybe worth while to verify this occurs in single player modes as well.

Although my CPU is really old, and this was my 1st suspect for the problem, my experience with this specific line of titles showed me that it is mostly a GPU-intensive title.
As i said above, i had similar issues (*sporadic stuttering) when my brother was playing the previous 2016 version as well. Back then i had the GTX780 3GB, and since the CPU is getting really old (*CPU usage was very high), i didn't imagine that the trouble could be lying at the GPU, instead of the CPU.
But, .... to my surprise, when i replaced the GPU with the GTX1060 STRIX, the game was running buttery-smooth !! UNTILL the new version -F1 2017- arrived, and here we go again, same problem!! I can't believe that the problem can be again the GPU, but based on my previous experience, i must accept it as a strong possibility.
-I'll try new drivers, turn-off some visual effects, and i'll try some other options through NV Control Panel and we'll see....

Vsync may cause more problems than it solves as it will hurt performance further. Another aspect I pickup on quickly with racing games is the frame delay that often occurs with vsync (remember old wireless controller latency?).
I would suggest capturing your FPS as well as CPU and GPU usage to determine if it's hardware bottleneck related.
The game may also have some issues with multiplayer smoothness, I have no direct experience with these titles but it's somewhat common across the genre so it maybe worth while to verify this occurs in single player modes as well.

SO, ...an update:
I installed the latest drivers and run the f1-2017 in-game benchmark 2 times:
-1) using "GeForce's experience" recommended settings ( *quality ) : A) min FPS=45 B)avg FPS=65 C)Max frame time=21,96ms
-2) using "GeForce's experience" lowest settings (*performance) : A)min FPS=67 B)avg FPS=91 C)Max frame time=14,74ms
P.S.: Even with the lowest settings the stuttering persists in real-game (*not during benchmark), but , according to my brother, it's a little better now.
P.S. 2: After the 2 benchmarks, the panel that showed the results & system specs, was writting something weird : GPU NVidia GeForce GTX1060 6GB (1.9 GB) , exactly as i writte it !!! This 1.9 GB was shown at the end of both benchmarks, although the 1st benchmark was with quality-based and the 2nd was performance-based, so i find it highly unlikely to be the memory usage during the game as i first thought !!

 

[niko084]

Could be running into a CPU wall, if overclocking is an option that chip should do mid 3s with ease.

On another note, complaints of stuttering and frame rate drops seem somewhat common for both games even on modern i7s and 1080s.
Some rec trying windowed mode, changing sound settings... YMMV.

 

[sith'ari]

Could be running into a CPU wall, if overclocking is an option that chip should do mid 3s with ease.

On another note, complaints of stuttering and frame rate drops seem somewhat common for both games even on modern i7s and 1080s.
Some rec trying windowed mode, changing sound settings... YMMV.

1.At previous f1 2016 the stuttering was solved when upgraded from GTX780 to GTX1060
2. What this (1,9 GB) can be ? at the first benchmark i just thought that it was indicating the memory usage, but at the second benchmark the same number reappeared. Could this be some kind of game-limitation regarding the VRAM usage?

 

[niko084]

2. What this (1,9 GB) can be ? at the first benchmark i just thought that it was indicating the memory usage, but at the second benchmark the same number reappeared. Could this be some kind of game-limitation regarding the VRAM usage?

This confuses me a little, you could run GPUZ or another monitoring utility while playing the game to see memory usage.
It's possible the benchmark isn't fully utilizing your gpu ram.

What OS?

 

[sith'ari]

Windows 7 64bit.
will run the GPUZ and we'll see ... Thanks again for the help!!

this game has stuttering probs since F1 2015 for some.
it´s a more graphic bound game.
i would not change out the 1060 because your cpu will in some ways hinder performance of stronger graphiccards. so just buying faster gpu will not always help if your system is not balanced.
so for me your next upgrade should be a better cpu.
there should be a ingame setting with streaming options-try it on low!
and i would try whithout vsync too if ya cannot hold the 60fps steady.
maybe qubit is on to something with your TV and 200hz?
http://forums.codemasters.com/discu...ing-at-high-refresh-rate-potential-workaround
these tips you can use for 2017 too:
http://www.forceclaw.com/tweaks/f1-...ontroller-issues-performance-fixes-amd-nvidia

I just read the link that you put. Very useful thanks!
From what i saw, several users with much more powerful systems than my brother's, still face similar stuttering issues.
Someone mentioned that by disabling MSAA the problem was solved. Seems like this game requires a lot of tweeking in order to find the proper settings.
EDIT: I sent a mail to Codemasters, asking them what this ( 1.9GB ) figure -that i mentioned at my previous post- can be. I hope they will reply because i consider it very weird.

 

[Vayra86]

This is clearly a CPU performance issue, and will need to be solved by a CPU upgrade or heavy OC.

2.8 Ghz just doesn't cut it, and this is a pre-Sandy Bridge CPU. Time to upgrade. The 1060 will be a better performer then too, you can always upgrade the GPU later, but CPU should definitely be coming first - if you do it the other way around, you will further hamstring the (stronger) GPU which in turn will cause a higher variance of frame times (when CPU has breathing room, FPS explodes, when u run into a CPU bottleneck, it drops down heavily, the bigger the gaps between minimum and average FPS, the more perceived stutter).

TV @ 200hz = no issue, interpolation should never introduce stutter, it should in fact reduce perceived stutter, but increases input lag.
Vsync = only mildly related; an FPS cap instead of Vsync will produce higher performance, and does not add input lag, at the expense of an occasional screen tear. Vsync does not really help to reduce stutter, it only serves to 'mask it', and you pay a heavy price for that with high input lag especially if FPS drops down heavily.
Drivers and software = not related

Don't waste more time on all of these things, and start looking at new components If you want a cheap and reliable platform upgrade, look at second hand Haswell (Intel 4xxx) or later. This way you get a huge performance boost at a very good perf/dollar metric, with only a very minor gap to the newest CPUs.

 

[vega22]

cpu bottleneck would be my first port of call.

i would test it by dropping the cpu mhz to see if it made the issue worse and then overclocking it if to see if it makes the issue better.

if upgrading the platform is not an option right now, upgrading the cooling (to aid overclocking) could be as it will fit later platforms too.

 

[sith'ari]

This is clearly a CPU performance issue, and will need to be solved by a CPU upgrade or heavy OC.
2.8 Ghz just doesn't cut it, and this is a pre-Sandy Bridge CPU. Time to upgrade. The 1060 will be a better performer then too, you can always upgrade the GPU later, but CPU should definitely be coming first - if you do it the other way around, you will further hamstring the (stronger) GPU which in turn will cause a higher variance of frame times (when CPU has breathing room, FPS explodes, when u run into a CPU bottleneck, it drops down heavily, the bigger the gaps between minimum and average FPS, the more perceived stutter).
TV @ 200hz = no issue, interpolation should never introduce stutter, it should in fact reduce perceived stutter, but increases input lag.
Vsync = only mildly related; an FPS cap instead of Vsync will produce higher performance, and does not add input lag, at the expense of an occasional screen tear.
Drivers and software = not related
Don't waste more time on all of these things

These were exactly my thoughts when i faced these exact problems at the previous F1 2016 version.
I was more than certain that it was a CPU issue, ...BUT as i already said, to my great surprise, when i upgraded the GPU (*from GTX780 to GTX1060) the problem was solved!!
So now that the same problem appears at the F1 2017 version as well, i really don't know what to think !!
Right now, i'm just waiting for a reply from Codemasters about this (1.9 GB) figure.

 

[Vayra86]

These were exactly my thoughts when i faced these exact problems at the previous F1 2016 version.
I was more than certain that it was a CPU issue, ...BUT as i already said, to my great surprise, when i upgraded the GPU (*from GTX780 to GTX1060) the problem was solved!!
So now that the same problem appears at the F1 2017 version as well, i really don't know what to think !!
Right now, i'm just waiting for a reply from Codemasters about this (1.9 GB) figure.

Haswell i5 or newer/faster is also the recommended CPU for this game.

You can definitely tweak settings to reduce stutter, this will help, but one thing does not exclude the other; you still have a CPU that is too slow to *eliminate* stutter.

1.9GB figure is easy to explain, the game just doesn't use that much VRAM, and aims to stay under 2GB because that is a very commonly found mid-range GPU amount of VRAM. Its just the way the engine handles it. Your GTX 1060 is more than capable for 1080p, as evident by your FPS figures you posted earlier. That by itself also eliminates the possiblity of stutter because of lack of VRAM, unless its coded really crappy.

One last point: this game is only recently released, and things like stutter do require time to get ironed out - or they may never be - sometimes a game is just what it is.

In terms of tweaking settings; any kind of post-processing and AA can add to frame times because it gets added later in the render pipeline. You can also play around with FXAA which has a very low performance penalty. Weather and particle effects are high performance cost things as well. Does F1 2017 have physics simulations? If you can reduce the quality of those, that will heavily reduce the CPU load.

 

[sith'ari]

Haswell i5 or newer/faster is also the recommended CPU for this game.
You can definitely tweak settings to reduce stutter, this will help, but one thing does not exclude the other; you still have a CPU that is too slow to *eliminate* stutter.
1.9GB figure is easy to explain, the game just doesn't use that much VRAM, and aims to stay under 2GB because that is a very commonly found mid-range GPU amount of VRAM. Its just the way the engine handles it. Your GTX 1060 is more than capable for 1080p, as evident by your FPS figures you posted earlier.
One last point: this game is only recently released, and things like stutter do require time to get ironed out - or they may never be - sometimes a game is just what it is.

-So how do you explain that the stuttering was eliminated at the 2016 version simply by changing GPU?
-So you are saying that there is an in-game limitation that only uses 1.9GB VRAM? That's not logical, because i wouldn't have a problem with my GTX780 then, since it was a 3GB card. The more i think the more i get confused!!

 

[Vayra86]

-So how do you explain that the stuttering was eliminated at the 2016 version simply by changing GPU?
-So you are saying that there is an in-game limitation that only uses 1.9GB VRAM? That's not logical, because i wouldn't have a problem with my GTX780 then, since it was a 3GB card. The more i think the more i get confused!!

You're way over-analyzing this with a rig that only just meets the minimum specs for this game, especially in the CPU department. You also jump to conclusions that the stutter in F1 2016 was caused by a lack of VRAM on the 780; I'll tell you one thing, the 3GB on the 780ti I had, NEVER was the cause of stutter even in very demanding games; the GPU core was pegged at 99% always and I would just see lower FPS, but no stutter. Nvidia has its frame pacing stuff in good order and its rare for games to go over 2GB at 1080p anyway, unless you crank up everything to ultra + high AA settings. You can almost always attribute stutter to a CPU/platform bottleneck, because the CPU is first in the pipeline; it has to send data to the GPU, and if it lacks a tiny bit of performance at ANY time, you get stutter.

Note also that the 1.9 GB VRAM usage on the newer game is effectively proof that the 780's 3GB would have also been more than sufficient.

Oh and to really drive home that this isnt a GPU issue:
https://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/NVIDIA/GeForce_GTX_1060/17.html
A GTX 780 is on par with a GTX 970. The 1060 6GB is an extremely small upgrade. But look at that FPS; these are both very decent cards for 1080p, with no stutter reported across an entire benchmark suite.

Another bit of insight in performance on same GPU with a Haswell i5 (note the CPU spiking to 100%, GPU pegged at 99% almost all the time). Note also: low GPU memory usage, below 2GB, but still stutter.

 

[sith'ari]

You're way over-analyzing this with a rig that only just meets the minimum specs for this game, especially in the CPU department. You also jump to conclusions that the stutter in F1 2016 was caused by a lack of VRAM on the 780; I'll tell you one thing, the 3GB on the 780ti I had, NEVER was the cause of stutter even in very demanding games; the GPU core was pegged at 99% always and I would just see lower FPS, but no stutter. Nvidia has its frame pacing stuff in good order and its rare for games to go over 2GB at 1080p anyway, unless you crank up everything to ultra + high AA settings. You can almost always attribute stutter to a CPU/platform bottleneck, because the CPU is first in the pipeline; it has to send data to the GPU, and if it lacks a tiny bit of performance at ANY time, you get stutter.

Note also that the 1.9 GB VRAM usage on the newer game is effectively proof that the 780's 3GB would have also been more than sufficient.

Oh and to really drive home that this isnt a GPU issue:
https://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/NVIDIA/GeForce_GTX_1060/17.html
A GTX 780 is on par with a GTX 970. The 1060 6GB is an extremely small upgrade. But look at that FPS; these are both very decent cards for 1080p, with no stutter reported across an entire benchmark suite.

I told you that i've been thinking exactly the way you are thinking now, UNTILL i saw the problem being solved simply by changing the GPU!! Just like you, i was more than certain that the CPU was causing bottleneck to the system's performance, but , for the F1 2016 version, it was proved that it wasn't the case. For the F1 2017, i don't know yet.
Anyway have to go to work. Thanks all of you guys for the help!

 

[niko084]

I told you that i've been thinking exactly the way you are thinking now, UNTILL i saw the problem being solved simply by changing the GPU!! Just like you, i was more than certain that the CPU was causing bottleneck to the system's performance, but , for the F1 2016 version, it was proved that it wasn't the case. For the F1 2017, i don't know yet.
Anyway have to go to work. Thanks all of you guys for the help!

This is why I recommend using the resource monitor to track your CPU usage while playing the game, this is how one can be more certain.
Unfortunately the problem going away with a GPU change on the older game means little to the issues with the newer version. It's possible under some circumstances that the GPU upgrade aided a source problem with the CPU.

Generally in my experience if a game performs great in a benchmark and poorly in play it's a CPU related problem.

 

[sith'ari]

This is why I recommend using the resource monitor to track your CPU usage while playing the game, this is how one can be more certain.
Unfortunately the problem going away with a GPU change on the older game means little to the issues with the newer version. It's possible under some circumstances that the GPU upgrade aided a source problem with the CPU.

Generally in my experience if a game performs great in a benchmark and poorly in play it's a CPU related problem.

For now, i'll wait for Codemasters response to my mail.
They replied to me and asked me to send them a DXGIAG report first, in order to investigate the problem better. I'll send them the report tomorrow and i'll wait for their reply before i do anything more.

 

[Regeneration]

Can you post a screenshot of GPU-Z and upload the DXDIAG log? The detected 1.9GB VRAM is abnormal. What could be chewing the VRAM?