Air in GPU waterblock

[cvaldes]

The main takeaway from the GN video is that when a radiator's couplings are at the top, the bubbles accumulate there and easily flow to the pump. When the couplings are oriented at the bottom, the air tends to stay in the radiator top (which is designed to handle this) and less likely to be pushed down to the exhaust coupling at the bottom of the radiator.

 

[Valantar]

The main takeaway from the GN video is that when a radiator's couplings are at the top, the bubbles accumulate there and easily flow to the pump. When the couplings are oriented at the bottom, the air tends to stay in the radiator top (which is designed to handle this) and less likely to be pushed down to the exhaust coupling at the bottom of the radiator.

True. In a loop with a reservoir this typically isn't an issue, but in the case of the OP's loop it would probably be better to let the air accumulate in the rad than in the gpu block. Though bleeding it properly is still the way to go imo.

 

[looniam]

Hi! I just finished my first custom loop over the weekend and just noticed something odd. There GPU waterblock has an air gap in it and I cant seem to get it out. I tried rotating the case and that worked for a while but eventually the air gap goes back to the same spot of the GPU.

Should I be worried? I think the "top" most part of the block is where the VRMs are and the coolant is not touching it. It is also not the highest part of the loop.

View attachment 209491

holy restriction batman!

can i have a cookie please?

 

[ThrashZone]

Hi,
Yeah that bend looks really bad
Image is so small/ bad it's hard to tell anything.

 

[thesmokingman]

That poor pump!

 

[Mussels]

You're gunna need to find a way to rotate it and get the air out of the block, and bleed it from the loop

This can occur if you have the in and out ports backwards, in some blocks

This is where I would stick a long piece of tube on the res giving it a larger water source until it was fully bled, then ya remove the hose.

I like this idea, i have a T joiner at a high point in my loop for something like this... it let the trapped air bleed up that direction, cracked it open, topped it up and screwed the cap back on

I have a more elegant solution now, but its compact and could work in a build like this if you're careful about where it can spill

 

[maxfly]

If the air keeps coming back to the same spot in the gpu block the pumps not the problem. Pretty much any variation of a ddc would have plenty of head pressure and flow with such a small loop. The res is the problem. There's nowhere for the air to collect before it gets rammed back into the loop. I believe ive had this conversation with the OP before. Many small reservoirs come with sponges or plastic dividers to help with catching the air as it passes through. Lacking something like this, the rad dance it is.
Try running the pump as slow as you can while rotating your case without releasing the air thats already in your res. The latter is the biggie. Rinse and repeat, be patient. Itll take time.
The piece of tubing thats collapsing can be fixed with zip ties but youll have to get it back to round first. Then wrap the part of the tubing that collapsed with as many zip ties as you can fit. Make sure they are as tight as you can get them, otherwise the tubing will just collapse under them.

 

[Keullo-e]

holy restriction batman!
View attachment 209544

can i have a cookie please?

Good point there. Actually I've had also kinks on a loop and I didn't even realize those myself until I've posted a pic of my system to the Your PC ATM thread and someone has asked about it.

 

[cvaldes]

I already mentioned 45 degree rotary fittings in the other thread.

For sure, the OP's photography has been not be terribly helpful in diagnosing problems and identifying opportunities for alternative solutions. A lot of the photos are completely irrelevant to solving custom cooling loop thermal issues.

As I pointed out earlier, I had to refer to the photos from another thread to bring up a point about radiator placement.

That said, I still believe it is the placement of the radiator (couplings at the top) that is the primary culprit in the OP's build.

I've had a few tube kinks in my builds occasionally. Ultimately if the loop provides satisfactory cooling, it's good enough and might not be worth diddling with, at least from a thermal perspective. There are still acoustic and component wear considerations. This is really up to the OP to decide how to proceed.

The temps look okay.

 

[Space Lynx]

This is why beginners should not try builds like this.

how does one not become a beginner anymore?

 

[thesmokingman]

how does one not become a beginner anymore?

I'd say after a handful of builds and when you start to get mastery in dealing with compromises. Tiny builds are an exercise in compromise and are a huge pita. I hate doing them because it's a lose lose situation, so you have to run the gear at reduced power levels to fit into the low cooling limit constrained by the small size. You should have a pretty decent bag of tricks up your sleeve and bits in the tool box as well. I'm not putting anyone down mind you, it's just that ya gotta realize its an uphill battle both ways with these builds.

holy restriction batman!
View attachment 209544

can i have a cookie please?

Take this for ex. I'd avoid using a tube bend here. Start with a 45 deg fitting instead of tubing which will never bend into a 90 w/o collapsing and zipties don't work well either cuz they'll still collapse on you. You wanna avoid tube bends that close to the pump especially on a high head pump like a DDC.

 

[looniam]

I already mentioned 45 degree rotary fittings in the other thread.

For sure, the OP's photography has been not be terribly helpful in diagnosing problems and identifying opportunities for alternative solutions. A lot of the photos are completely irrelevant to solving custom cooling loop thermal issues.

As I pointed out earlier, I had to refer to the photos from another thread to bring up a point about radiator placement.

That said, I still believe it is the placement of the radiator (couplings at the top) that is the primary culprit in the OP's build.

I've had a few tube kinks in my builds occasionally. Ultimately if the loop provides satisfactory cooling, it's good enough and might not be worth diddling with, at least from a thermal perspective. There are still acoustic and component wear considerations. This is really up to the OP to decide how to proceed.

The temps look okay.

that only matter w/clc and their piss poop and i do mean piss poor flow rates:

my rad is set up external with the ports down. i can turn it upside down and there is no trapped air; flow rates of d5 and ddc blow the air to the res, which clc don't have.
24-36 hrs 100% and most air made it to my d5 pump/140res, 280 EKCE, evo supremacy and evo uniblock (when i had 980ti). a week later and i can top off the res again and it will stay there.

 

[toilet pepper]

If the air keeps coming back to the same spot in the gpu block the pumps not the problem. Pretty much any variation of a ddc would have plenty of head pressure and flow with such a small loop. The res is the problem. There's nowhere for the air to collect before it gets rammed back into the loop. I believe ive had this conversation with the OP before. Many small reservoirs come with sponges or plastic dividers to help with catching the air as it passes through. Lacking something like this, the rad dance it is.
Try running the pump as slow as you can while rotating your case without releasing the air thats already in your res. The latter is the biggie. Rinse and repeat, be patient. Itll take time.
The piece of tubing thats collapsing can be fixed with zip ties but youll have to get it back to round first. Then wrap the part of the tubing that collapsed with as many zip ties as you can fit. Make sure they are as tight as you can get them, otherwise the tubing will just collapse under them.

You are right. There was foam/sponge when I got the pump res but I removed it. I thought it was some kind of packaging material. It looks brittle as well and I dont want pieces of it runing in the loop.

I learned a lot with this build. Considering this is my first time, I made sure I had more than enough parts to go around but I was wrong. First fit leaked when I attached the side panel. The 90 degree fittings were too tall and the 16mm fittings were too wide. I just jerry-rigged fittings and parts that I had lying around to make it work. And that's where we are now.

Watercooling parts are not easy to come by in my area. I practically have to ship most of them from China and the choices are Bykski or Barrow. I'll order a few other assorted fittings and re-do the whole loop in the next couple of weeks.

I guess I could have called it a day and did a loop in an 011 dynamic but I didn't because there's no challenge in that.

I practically did what you said and it got a little better now. I just changed the orientation until the bubble appeared on top of the res and filled it again. Rinse. Repeat.

BTW that's not a kink. I'm using a 16mm OD flex tube and it is really hard to kink it. I've tried.

I'll try and get a 45 degree for this part. As I've said the whole loop didin't go as planned and had to make do with what I currently have.

Had to run it like this for a while then change orientation until I get the air gap in the res.

Thank you all for the suggestions and help.

 

[Mussels]

Hell i'm just about to tweak my own very first water build - some people here have been doing it forever and got old and snarky, but we all gotta learn somehow... and most of the fun and pride in this sort of custom job, is finding solutions along the way

 

[nguyen]

Because your res doesn't have anywhere to bleed air, you need a makeshift resevoir, here an idea:

Use a 5L water bottle as a makeshift resevoir
Use a long tube to connect CPU outlet to the water bottle (instead of going to the res)
Connect another tube from the 5L water bottle to resevoir inlet
Place the water bottle above the PC level, fill it with coolant and run the loop, make sure the tubes are submerged first, let the system run for a few hours.
After that just cut the tube from CPU outlet and connect to Res inlet, make sure the case is oriented where the Res is the highest point to prevent spilling.

I use this method to clean out new loop btw.

 

[toilet pepper]

Because your res doesn't have anywhere to bleed air, you need a makeshift resevoir, here an idea:

Use a 5L water bottle as a makeshift resevoir
Use a long tube to connect CPU outlet to the water bottle (instead of going to the res)
Connect another tube from the 5L water bottle to resevoir inlet
Place the water bottle above the PC level, fill it with coolant and run the loop, make sure the tubes are submerged first, let the system run for a few hours.
After that just cut the tube from CPU outlet and connect to Res inlet, make sure the case is oriented where the Res is the highest point to prevent spilling.

I use this method to clean out new loop btw.

I've thought of doing this but my smooth brain cant comprehend how I'm gonna connect everythin back without making a mess. I dont have a qdc fitting. I do however have lots of 16mm tube and a bunch of barb fittings and a valve.

As for water.. its currently flooding outside. And i have several gallons of distilled.

 

[Valantar]

You are right. There was foam/sponge when I got the pump res but I removed it. I thought it was some kind of packaging material. It looks brittle as well and I dont want pieces of it runing in the loop.

I learned a lot with this build. Considering this is my first time, I made sure I had more than enough parts to go around but I was wrong. First fit leaked when I attached the side panel. The 90 degree fittings were too tall and the 16mm fittings were too wide. I just jerry-rigged fittings and parts that I had lying around to make it work. And that's where we are now.

Watercooling parts are not easy to come by in my area. I practically have to ship most of them from China and the choices are Bykski or Barrow. I'll order a few other assorted fittings and re-do the whole loop in the next couple of weeks.

I guess I could have called it a day and did a loop in an 011 dynamic but I didn't because there's no challenge in that.

I practically did what you said and it got a little better now. I just changed the orientation until the bubble appeared on top of the res and filled it again. Rinse. Repeat.

View attachment 209583View attachment 209584

BTW that's not a kink. I'm using a 16mm OD flex tube and it is really hard to kink it. I've tried.


View attachment 209585


I'll try and get a 45 degree for this part. As I've said the whole loop didin't go as planned and had to make do with what I currently have.

View attachment 209589

Had to run it like this for a while then change orientation until I get the air gap in the res.

View attachment 209590

Thank you all for the suggestions and help.

That is starting to look pretty good to me. If you want a tip for more ease of bleeding for a small loop: get a cheap 3-port flow indicator (something like this), open it up and remove the rotor, and use it as a micro reservoir. Stick it as close to the top of your loop as you can, with the spare port upwards as a fill/bleed port. From the looks of it you should be able to mount it directly to your radiator inlet/outlet (use a rotary male/male extension to mount it), which should be near ideal. If you have that foam sponge from your pump/res still, cut a piece of it to fit the new micro res to help trap bubbles. It does seem brittle, but it shouldn't degrade over time - mechanical stress on the foam is minimal when installed.

This is what I have done in my Meshlicious, and it works excellently (though in hindsight I should have filled the whole thing with foam, not just blocked the outlet)

Another thing that helps: get a mid-sized syringe + some thin tubing (something like this) to fill small quantities of fluid into the loop. Fiddly, but it's a convenient way of avoiding spills and getting every last bit of air replaced with fluid.

Beyond that, I think the only thing I would really change about your loop is adding that 45° adapter to the top of your res. You could always shorten your GPU-side tubing runs (it should be doable to get that lower tube mostly straight between the inlet and the T-block), and if you get a flow indicator micro-res and mount it to the rad on the GPU side, stick a 90° onto its end and you can have a mostly straight run down to the outlet as well. But straigtening tubing runs is never necessary. Heck, mine are a mess right now, and I don't plan on changing that until I have more time on my hands than currently.

I've thought of doing this but my smooth brain cant comprehend how I'm gonna connect everythin back without making a mess. I dont have a qdc fitting. I do however have lots of 16mm tube and a bunch of barb fittings and a valve.

As for water.. its currently flooding outside. And i have several gallons of distilled.

Without QDCs, something like this will inevitably be messy, as you'll need to very carefully drain out just enough water from the tubing going into the bottle to remove that tubing and mount what is supposed to go there (and then that tubing will be full of air). And no matter what you'll be handling uncapped tubing full of water. I wouldn't bother. Without QDCs, something like that just isn't very practical unless you have a reservoir large enough to fill up what is inevitably spilled.

 

[Deleted member 24505]

That is starting to look pretty good to me. If you want a tip for more ease of bleeding for a small loop: get a cheap 3-port flow indicator (something like this), open it up and remove the rotor, and use it as a micro reservoir. Stick it as close to the top of your loop as you can, with the spare port upwards as a fill/bleed port. From the looks of it you should be able to mount it directly to your radiator inlet/outlet (use a rotary male/male extension to mount it), which should be near ideal. If you have that foam sponge from your pump/res still, cut a piece of it to fit the new micro res to help trap bubbles. It does seem brittle, but it shouldn't degrade over time - mechanical stress on the foam is minimal when installed.

This is what I have done in my Meshlicious, and it works excellently (though in hindsight I should have filled the whole thing with foam, not just blocked the outlet)

Another thing that helps: get a mid-sized syringe + some thin tubing (something like this) to fill small quantities of fluid into the loop. Fiddly, but it's a convenient way of avoiding spills and getting every last bit of air replaced with fluid.

Beyond that, I think the only thing I would really change about your loop is adding that 45° adapter to the top of your res. You could always shorten your GPU-side tubing runs (it should be doable to get that lower tube mostly straight between the inlet and the T-block), and if you get a flow indicator micro-res and mount it to the rad on the GPU side, stick a 90° onto its end and you can have a mostly straight run down to the outlet as well. But straigtening tubing runs is never necessary. Heck, mine are a mess right now, and I don't plan on changing that until I have more time on my hands than currently.


Without QDCs, something like this will inevitably be messy, as you'll need to very carefully drain out just enough water from the tubing going into the bottle to remove that tubing and mount what is supposed to go there (and then that tubing will be full of air). And no matter what you'll be handling uncapped tubing full of water. I wouldn't bother. Without QDCs, something like that just isn't very practical unless you have a reservoir large enough to fill up what is inevitably spilled.

Can i ask what is the black tubing? I will be setting up a loop in my mATX build soon, and i like the look of that.

 

[nguyen]

I've thought of doing this but my smooth brain cant comprehend how I'm gonna connect everythin back without making a mess. I dont have a qdc fitting. I do however have lots of 16mm tube and a bunch of barb fittings and a valve.

As for water.. its currently flooding outside. And i have several gallons of distilled.

I don't have QDC either, I would just prepare some paper towel where I would cut the tube, distilled water is safe anyways.
I have had spillage directly onto my 3090, no fret there .

 

[Valantar]

Can i ask what is the black tubing? I will be setting up a loop in my mATX build soon, and i like the look of that.

EK ZMT 16/10mm. It's great tubing in many ways (doesn't kink, no fluid permeation), but it's also very stiff, so be aware of that before building. Tight bends are a no-go, and getting it onto fittings can require some real force. Bends directly off a fitting have a significant risk of popping off if it's a short barb fitting, hence my use of compression fittings in tight/high stress spots. Cutting it cleanly is also rather challenging, at least without proper tools (I use scissors and a utility knife, which ... works, but it's never clean). Still, I really like it.

 

[Deleted member 24505]

EK ZMT 16/10mm. It's great tubing in many ways (doesn't kink, no fluid permeation), but it's also very stiff, so be aware of that before building. Tight bends are a no-go, and getting it onto fittings can require some real force. Bends directly off a fitting have a significant risk of popping off if it's a short barb fitting, hence my use of compression fittings in tight/high stress spots. Cutting it cleanly is also rather challenging, at least without proper tools (I use scissors and a utility knife, which ... works, but it's never clean). Still, I really like it.

Thx. i still have some tube cutting shears. I'll remember it's stiff, gonna be for my Matx so i will arrange it accordingly.

 

[ThrashZone]

Hi,
QDC's are

 

[Valantar]

Hi,
QDC's are

QDCs are awesome, yes, but also expensive, and make tube routing in an SFF case much more of a headache due to the necessary flex for connecting and disconnecting them. I still absolutely love mine, but getting that into the Meshlicious? It sure wasn't easy. I don't think I'd recommend it for a beginner, at least not someone who cares about build aesthetics.

 

[ThrashZone]

QDCs are awesome, yes, but also expensive, and make tube routing in an SFF case much more of a headache due to the necessary flex for connecting and disconnecting them. I still absolutely love mine, but getting that into the Meshlicious? It sure wasn't easy. I don't think I'd recommend it for a beginner, at least not someone who cares about build aesthetics.

Hi,
Yeah hardware has been so overpriced last couple years I haven't utilized qdc's like I was hoping too for switching gpu's/ ... easily between rigs.
They have made it easy to add or remove additional mora 360's from one rig to another though and of course a snap to change out thermal paste without draining the system completely and refill pain.

 

[Valantar]

Hi,
Yeah hardware has been so overpriced last couple years I haven't utilized qdc's like I was hoping too for switching gpu's/ ... easily between rigs.
They have made it easy to add or remove additional mora 360's from one rig to another though and of course a snap to change out thermal paste without draining the system completely and refill pain.

I went for Alphacool's industrial nylon QDCs, which are roughly half the price of any other good QDCs I could find, but that still makes a set for three components (CPU+pump, rad, GPU for me, would be four for most people with CPU and pump being separate) plus one spare for filling and draining a relatively significant additional cost. They also release 1-2cc of liquid per connection cycle - not an issue IMO, just need to keep some paper towel around when disconnecting, but worth noting. They're also quite small for QDCs (there are shorter ones, but those are typically much wider). I also like that they're nylon and not brass, just for the weight savings and decreased risk of denting or scratching anything from moving them around. Given the dearth of water cooling components where the OP lives I doubt they have much access to QDCs though. Barrow does make some, but I have no idea whether they are any good.