AM3 CPU + 1600 MHz RAM = Uh oh..?

[crazyeyesreaper]

thuban is the same

its A Deneb die with 2 extra cores nothing else really its a bit better of a chip and the IMC is better but otherwise there pretty much the same.

 

[erocker]

we are aware there are gains erocker but most sticks of DDR3 ive seen dont really do low timings at 1600mhz on AMD very well its luck of the draw most of the time. my Mushkins can do 6 7 6 1333 but it takes 8 8 8 to get 1600 the average DDR3 ram wont push those timings on AMD very often and you are pushing lower timings with the high speeds again something that you usually need some higher end sticks to do.

It's still pretty easy to find 1.8-1.9v 1333 cas 6 or 1600 cas 7 sticks out there and they do great. Thing is, his chip should be able to run 1600mhz cas 9 no problem. Perhaps they need a voltage bump as sometimes AMD stuff requires more RAM volts than stock.

 

[crazyeyesreaper]

probably does need a volt bump could also be the CPU-NB needs a small bump.

 

[cookiemonster]

I don't know the reason but that is what i was told and so far i have no problems and I run

Crucial 8GB (4x2GB) DDR3 1333MHz/PC3-10600 Ballistix Memory Kit CL7 (7-7-7-24) 1.65V

 

[Mussels]

its just that since 1600 isnt an officially supported speed, that you have to manually set timings/voltages.


with thubans at least, the gains from 1600Mhz become greater, the higher you OC the CPU-NB link.

 

[breakfromyou]

MSI 790FX-GD70 w/Phenom II X3 720 (bought it as soon as they came out--it's a C2 rev memory controller), paired up with some G.Skill ECO 2x2gb DDR3-1600 7-8-7-20 timings, 1T @ 1.4v no problem. I can't go any higher than 1650 on this system at these timings, and I think i've had it up to 1700 at CL9 before. On an Intel 1156 i7 860, same RAM, I managed 2000 @ CL8 no problem. 2100 CL8 was kinda tough, but I did manage to get it to run for a little while

Point is: It depends on how tough your memory controller is, and since you have a Thuban, you shouldn't have any issues AT ALL. Those memory controllers are tough as hell compared to these old C2 deneb's. Id look into tweaking the more advanced settings in BIOS.

btw: This system at 1600 CL7 only benches a little better than 1333 CL6, but with better latency...so I suck with it. My NB clock is 2600, CPU at 3.6 GHz.

 

[Dbiggs9]

erocker, i did them setting with no luck as op say's might be true...... 965-c3

 

[JrRacinFan]

erocker, i did them setting with no luck as op say's might be true...... 965-c3

Erocker is running a Thuban die. Refer to the post above yours.

 

[Horrux]

double post. Apologies.

 

[Horrux]

thuban is the same

its A Deneb die with 2 extra cores nothing else really its a bit better of a chip and the IMC is better but otherwise there pretty much the same.

That's pretty incorrect, given that a 6-core Thuban runs at the same TDP as a 4-core Deneb. There certainly ARE changes in the circuitry.

One example of such differences is that the Deneb only allows 4 sticks of DDR2 at 800, but 2 sticks will run at 1333. With Thuban, you can run 4 sticks of DDR2 at 1333 no problem.

So there is a difference on the memory controller, most definitely.

 

[crazyeyesreaper]

which i mentioned unless you dont know what IMC means

and no they are the same

think of thuban as a new revision to Deneb

each core in thuban has the same performance as a core in deneb

the only real difference is thuban allows slightly better overclocks do to a tweak in the design but its by no means different

its like saying a Core 2 Duo is completely different from a Core 2 Quad when in reality its not the quad was just 2 Duos on the same die

Thuban is the same as Deneb so far as it uses the same architecture, same design, offers same features same core performance same IPC performance, it just overclocks a little better

and Deneb can run 4 sticks of 1333 without issue, the only reason they try and say a Deneb cant is do to the stock CPU-NB voltage

but yes overall THuban is a Deneb die everything is the exact same besides the 2 more cores added. theres nothing new to thuban besides 2 more cores and a better revision,

 

[JrRacinFan]

@Reaper

I was always under the knowledge of Thuban dies have a stronger IMC. I mean is that true? Not saying they are totally different but they are unique.

 

[Horrux]

which i mentioned unless you dont know what IMC means

and no they are the same

think of thuban as a new revision to Deneb

each core in thuban has the same performance as a core in deneb

the only real difference is thuban allows slightly better overclocks do to a tweak in the design but its by no means different

its like saying a Core 2 Duo is completely different from a Core 2 Quad when in reality its not the quad was just 2 Duos on the same die

Thuban is the same as Deneb so far as it uses the same architecture, same design, offers same features same core performance same IPC performance, it just overclocks a little better

and Deneb can run 4 sticks of 1333 without issue, the only reason they try and say a Deneb cant is do to the stock CPU-NB voltage

but yes overall THuban is a Deneb die everything is the exact same besides the 2 more cores added. theres nothing new to thuban besides 2 more cores and a better revision,

OK so to you "a better revision" makes them "the same", fine.

A lot of people spend time making sure they get the right revision of whatever chip they get. They don't seem to think they are "the same". Question of point of view I guess.

 

[Mussels]

@Reaper

I was always under the knowledge of Thuban dies have a stronger IMC. I mean is that true? Not saying they are totally different but they are unique.

they are stronger for sure. its known fact. while deneb did good for itself, thuban lets you go further.

 

[crazyeyesreaper]

The IMC is better on thuban but

That's pretty incorrect, given that a 6-core Thuban runs at the same TDP as a 4-core Deneb. There certainly ARE changes in the circuitry.

One example of such differences is that the Deneb only allows 4 sticks of DDR2 at 800, but 2 sticks will run at 1333. With Thuban, you can run 4 sticks of DDR2 at 1333 no problem.

So there is a difference on the memory controller, most definitely.

the above is a load of bullshit

Thuban dosent magically support more sticks of ram then a Deneb die, its a REVISION thats slightly better it dosent dramatically change a damn thing.

As Thuban is E0 stepping i would expect it to be better then the Aging C3 stepping of the Deneb cores but these stepping changes again dont change ram support

both are 800mhz x4 sticks or 2 sticks at 1066 same goes to DDR3 they support 2x sticks of 1333 in dualchannel it makes no mention of 4 sticks and uh Thuban never supported 1333mhz DDR2 out of box lolz but im gonna say by common sense that was a typo, eitherway it makes no difference because a simple voltage bump on the CPU-NB means everything is stable its AMDs low CPU-NB voltage that causes the ram to be unstable. and since the CPU-NB is safe to around 1.4-1.45v and its default is 1.1 theres no real issue in upping it to 1.2v to gain full stability, some chips are just more stable with 4 sticks then others.

Example this chip here is perfectly stable stock voltage with 4 sticks of ram with no tweaking on DDR3 at 1333mhz CL7 but DDR2 it requires a small volt bump for 4 sticks 1066 to be stable no chips are exactly the same, the OP just needs a small volt bump on the CPU-NB and presto problem solved. Its not rocket science the Thuban IMC scales far better but it still has the same limitation as Deneb.

 

[erocker]

I ran four sticks at 1333 and 1600mhz with my 965 BE C3 without an issue. Thuban can do it a little better since it has a stronger IMC. "Little better" meaning a higher IMC frequency.

 

[Neuromancer]

Thuban IMC is noticeably stronger. Which is why Deneb memory oc's were recorded at 1900 and Thuban was able to easily break the 2K mark. (2200 in a google search.)

The issues with running 1600 MHZ RAM on AM3, was some boards have an issue with the divider, IE, you cant set 1600 MHZ in the BIOS and boot stable, but you can set 1333 and then bring the HTREF clock up to about 240 and run fine.

AMD also recommends CPUNB at 3 times the ACTUAL memory speed. So for 1600 MHZ RAM (800MHz) you will want to run 2400 MHz CPUNB speed.

As stated before you may need to increase CPUNB volts to get stability.

 

[erocker]

AMD also recommends CPUNB at 3 times the ACTUAL memory speed. So for 1600 MHZ RAM (800MHz) you will want to run 2400 MHz CPUNB speed.

As stated before you may need to increase CPUNB volts to get stability.

I finde that the memory bottleneck starts to alleviate when CPUNB is brought up to 3000mhz while running 1600mhz ram. Then again, if I were running my 1600mhz RAM at higher/looser timings it could probablly do with less CPUNB frequency. So really, you want as close to four times the speed on the CPUNB then the RAM. It's also a noticable performance difference be it on startup or while gaming. So really, you want your CPUNB at 3 times the acutal memory speed at minimum.

See attatchment

 

[Mussels]

I finde that the memory bottleneck starts to alleviate when CPUNB is brought up to 3000mhz while running 1600mhz ram. Then again, if I were running my 1600mhz RAM at higher/looser timings it could probablly do with less CPUNB frequency. So really, you want as close to four times the speed on the CPUNB then the RAM. It's also a noticable performance difference be it on startup or while gaming. So really, you want your CPUNB at 3 times the acutal memory speed at minimum.

See attatchment

my bottleneck started to reduce past 2.6, i didnt fight mine upto 3.

 

[xsever]

Read this informative post here: http://forums.guru3d.com/showpost.php?p=3887788&postcount=6

Apparently, running an AM3 CPU with ram faster than 1333 can damage the CPU's memory controller with time.

 

[Mussels]

Read this informative post here: http://forums.guru3d.com/showpost.php?p=3887788&postcount=6

Apparently, running an AM3 CPU with ram faster than 1333 can damage the CPU's memory controller with time.

nope. running stupid voltages through it could, but we all already knew that.


read his post, he doesnt actually know anything nor has he done any tests. he's just repeating stuff that others have told him (which sounds like saying "dont run it out of spec or we dont know what will happen")

i mean he literally says "dont run above 1333 or your system will fall over"

"From my own testing, RAM above 1333 Mhz can be extremely fussy if you insist on trying to run in Ganged Mode and will often return an Overclock warning at start-up and revert to 1333 Mhz."


this just sounds like he never manually set his timings/voltages properly. i dont think that post holds any valid information, its just regurgitating material from elsewhere with his own asusmptions mixed in.

 

[xsever]

nope. running stupid voltages through it could, but we all already knew that.

read his post, he doesnt actually know anything nor has he done any tests. he's just repeating stuff that others have told him (which sounds like saying "dont run it out of spec or we dont know what will happen")

i mean he literally says "dont run above 1333 or your system will fall over"

"From my own testing, RAM above 1333 Mhz can be extremely fussy if you insist on trying to run in Ganged Mode and will often return an Overclock warning at start-up and revert to 1333 Mhz."


this just sounds like he never manually set his timings/voltages properly. i dont think that post holds any valid information, its just regurgitating material from elsewhere with his own asusmptions mixed in.

I am receiving my 955 and 1600 9-9-9-24 1.5V in the mail today. What do you suggest I do? Run them @ 1600 with their default timings and 1.5V, or run them @ 1300 with tighter timings and maybe lower voltage?

I can see you have a Thuban and 1600 RAM so I am interested in your opinion.

Thank you,

 

[crazyeyesreaper]

tighter timings

go for 1333mhz CL7 with 2600mhz NB speeds both should be easily attainable and will give you a memory to L3 cache speed of 1 to 1

 

[xsever]

tighter timings

go for 1333mhz CL7 with 2600mhz NB speeds both should be easily attainable and will give you a memory to L3 cache speed of 1 to 1

Thanks for the tip. I use K10Stat for overclocking and it's very handy and allows all sort of modifications (voltages, NB, Core Control, etc..)

 

[cheesy999]

Hi its the Deneb Core that has problems with the 1600mhz not the Thuban, when i got my 965 be for my Gigabyte mobo I was advised by them to get 1333mhz.

no, it just takes some work since its hard to get a good NB clock on Deneb when using DDR3, i'm managing to run 1600mhz cas 8 at the moment

(a lot of Denebs can't go too high but be sure to get every last mhz out of your NB clock, makes so much difference its almost unbelievable)