AMD “will consider adding support” for RIS on Vega, but has no plans to right now

[Madgemade]

unless you're seeing 50%+ CPU when usinmg youtube, your Radeon does indeed decode YouTube quite perfectly without you even noticing.

It really doesn't decode anything. I just tested it now and my CPU (3700X) goes from 2% usage to 10/11% with a 4k@60 video playing. If I look at the GPU tab in task manager it shows 3D load but nothing for video decode. If I use a H.264 video then CPU use is unchanged and the video decoder shows activity. No fixed function decoding support in vega.
I was getting 30%+ usage on my old 3770 until I upgraded to Zen 2.

 

[R0H1T]

Did you try GPUZ or hwinfo, the thread you linked quotes hybrid support

 

[MrPotatoHead]

It really doesn't decode anything. I just tested it now and my CPU (3700X) goes from 2% usage to 10/11% with a 4k@60 video playing. If I look at the GPU tab in task manager it shows 3D load but nothing for video decode. If I use a H.264 video then CPU use is unchanged and the video decoder shows activity. No fixed function decoding support in vega.
I was getting 30%+ usage on my old 3770 until I upgraded to Zen 2.

It has the same unified video decoder hardware as vega 10

 

[xkm1948]

I think he has a grudge against AMD over his watercooled Fury X but when it suits him, he's all in for AMD considering how many times he mentions building Threadripper systems for DNA sequencing. He comes off as hyper critical of AMD for the most part though.

Yeah I shop with my brain, not my feelings. What does that have to do with the topic here? I am not AMD engineer or PR. I posted a news piece FFS.

 

[TheoneandonlyMrK]

Yeah I shop with my brain, not my feelings. What does that have to do with the topic here? I am not AMD engineer or PR. I posted a news piece FFS.

This thread is not about you or your shopping habits or anything you own or wish to buy.
Which is why some question your motivation and vehemence in the thread, im not having a dig just expressing how i perceive this thread.

And it yet again is a bit dramatic, I would agree Amd need to put this right but at the same time feel that a new feature brought out a year or two after my card got released might not reach my card is actually fair and reasonable.

If companies dont make new features to sell cards i won't buy new cards and they can't be expected to roll every feature backwards.

Plus it's sometimes pointless ,like Gtx getting Rtx support, totally pointless.

Im a Vega owner too, so I have direct interest in this.

 

[xkm1948]

This thread is not about you or your shopping habits or anything you own or wish to buy.
Which is why some question your motivation and vehemence in the thread, im not having a dig just expressing how i perceive this thread.

And it yet again is a bit dramatic, I would agree Amd need to put this right but at the same time feel that a new feature brought out a year or two after my card got released might not reach my card is actually fair and reasonable.

If companies dont make new features to sell cards i won't buy new cards and they can't be expected to roll every feature backwards.

Plus it's sometimes pointless ,like Gtx getting Rtx support, totally pointless.

Im a Vega owner too, so I have direct interest in this.

Hopefully the company listens to the community, same as the RyZen 3000 boost issue. At the same time, these should not even become an issue in the first place. Vega should be the first batch to receive new features right after Navi.

 

[TheoneandonlyMrK]

Hopefully the company listens to the community, same as the RyZen 3000 boost issue. At the same time, these should not even become an issue in the first place. Vega should be the first batch to receive new features right after Navi.

I think you have to consider market use, in that polaris reached so many more hands then vega.

If you were running a company, you surely would want the new feature you just back ported so to speak ,to work on the largest installed base first ,which within support terms is polaris for Amd, see how that goes then hopefully expand support.

I agree that the boost thing shouldn't happen but that's irrelevant in this thread and talk of it here risks this thread just becoming the typical flamewar.

Your coming across as knowing all the facts and limitations that limit Amd scaling this to vega , when in fact only the software team working on this at Amd can actually know.

Perhaps state it as your opinion that they should have brought it to vega first instead of stating it like A fact you know, I would still dissagree.

But that's a more balanced statement even if it's imho flawed.

 

[xkm1948]

Now I am wondering whether RTG is planning to rehash the good old Polaris for the 5xxx series as entry level 5500 or 5400. That would make sense for why Polaris got support.

7nm shrink Polaris?

 

[Madgemade]

It has the same unified video decoder hardware as vega 10

That slide you posted is for Raven Ridge and nothing to do with Vega 10/20.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unified_Video_Decoder#GPUs

The UVD and VCE were replaced by the Video Core Next (VCN) ASIC in the Raven Ridge APU implementation of Vega

The fact that VP9 is said to be a feature of VCN in fact means that it cannot have been a feature of UVD 7. It wouldn't be a new feature if it was.
Also I was wrong in thinking that Polaris has support for VP9. It seems to have been added with VCN as shown on that slide and the slide for Navi.

 

[Zubasa]

It really doesn't decode anything. I just tested it now and my CPU (3700X) goes from 2% usage to 10/11% with a 4k@60 video playing. If I look at the GPU tab in task manager it shows 3D load but nothing for video decode. If I use a H.264 video then CPU use is unchanged and the video decoder shows activity. No fixed function decoding support in vega.
I was getting 30%+ usage on my old 3770 until I upgraded to Zen 2.

Actually, it is decoding something. Basically it is running software decoing within the Shaders.
But the issue is as stated in that link it is not fix function hardware decoding, meaning it is far less efficient and potentially buggy.
For example, if I turn off hardware decoding on my setup, playing 4k60 videos will take between 12~28% CPU usage on a 1950X.
That is far more than what you are getting in CPU usage.

 

[Madgemade]

Actually, it is decoding something. Basically it is running software decoing within the Shaders.
But the issue is as stated in that link it is not fix function hardware decoding, meaning it is far less efficient and potentially buggy.
For example, if I turn off hardware decoding on my setup, playing 4k60 videos will take between 12~28% CPU usage on a 1950X.
That is far more than what you are getting in CPU usage.

I don't think it can be contributing all that much. I'll turn of hardware decoding and see what difference it makes to CPU usage. At least it not as bad as this guy who had 60% usage.

 

[xkm1948]

That slide you posted is for Raven Ridge and nothing to do with Vega 10/20.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unified_Video_Decoder#GPUs

The fact that VP9 is said to be a feature of VCN in fact means that it cannot have been a feature of UVD 7. It wouldn't be a new feature if it was.
Also I was wrong in thinking that Polaris has support for VP9. It seems to have been added with VCN as shown on that slide and the slide for Navi.

I thought it was just Netflix UHD. So is it just Youtube 4K or all Youtube? Tried different browser? Can you force enable it in FireFox config?

 

[Madgemade]

Can you force enable it in FireFox config?

It was enabled already. I disabled "use hardware acceleration when available" and my CPU use goes up to 16% for 4K@60 compared to 12% with it enabled. 3D use shows as 10% in task manager compared to 20-30% before. So it does seem that the driver does some offloading but not proper hardware decoding. It was much worse on my old CPU. I checked this before when it was mentioned on reddit and back then (with a 3770) I was getting 50% CPU usage (more than I remembered). I tried chrome (default settings) and the usage was the same as firefox with hardware accel enabled. If I use the H.264 plug-in then I have very low CPU usage but 4K is not supported at all then.

So is it just Youtube 4K or all Youtube?

All videos, they all use VP9 and so have the same issue. Difference is that 1080p is much less work to decoe so the CPU usage (on this 3700X anyway) is almost undetectable. On my old 3770 I would always have about 15-20% just watching videos.

 

[xkm1948]

It was enabled already. I disabled "use hardware acceleration when available" and my CPU use goes up to 16% for 4K@60 compared to 12% with it enabled. 3D use shows as 10% in task manager compared to 20-30% before. So it does seem that the driver does some offloading but not proper hardware decoding. It was much worse on my old CPU. I checked this before when it was mentioned on reddit and back then (with a 3770) I was getting 50% CPU usage (more than I remembered). I tried chrome (default settings) and the usage was the same as firefox with hardware accel enabled. If I use the H.264 plug-in then I have very low CPU usage but 4K is not supported at all then.

All videos, they all use VP9 and so have the same issue. Difference is that 1080p is much less work to decoe so the CPU usage (on this 3700X anyway) is almost undetectable. On my old 3770 I would always have about 15-20% just watching videos.

That sucks. I remember using Edge and somehow it put my old GPU to full utilization. So give Edge a try? Not the new chrome based edge though

 

[Madgemade]

That sucks. I remember using Edge and somehow it put my old GPU to full utilization. So give Edge a try? Not the new chrome based edge though

I tested edge (not hte new edge) and it doesn't do 4K the option is not there which means it must be getting served h264. According to this only Chrome and Firefox were served VP9 originally so that might explain why it can decode in hardware as it was probably getting h.264 instead which is well supported.

 

[xkm1948]

I tested edge (not hte new edge) and it doesn't do 4K the option is not there which means it must be getting served h264. According to this only Chrome and Firefox were served VP9 originally so that might explain why it can decode in hardware as it was probably getting h.264 instead which is well supported.

Well I am out of ideas then.


Maybe try complain on AMD official community forum?

 

[Madgemade]

Maybe try complain on AMD official community forum?

There's nothing to complain about. I'm not bothered whether it supports it or not, doesn't affect me. Just a bit higher CPU usage that's all.
There's already 151 threads on there with "AMD VP9" so I don't think adding more will do any good.
After all they did listen to the community and added VP9 support for Navi. They can't add it to older GPUs because it would require new hardware.

 

[TheoneandonlyMrK]

Now I am wondering whether RTG is planning to rehash the good old Polaris for the 5xxx series as entry-level 5500 or 5400. That would make sense for why Polaris got support.

7nm shrink Polaris?

7nm gcn version Polaris would be better but not efficient enough to compete with low-end Nvidia or Intels offerings, i think they will bring Navi small out personally, and pretty soon.

Navi's switch from 64bit wavefront's\16bit Simd to 32bit wavefront's\32bit Simd is where that efficiency comes from and that cant be done with Polaris or vega arch.

 

[TheinsanegamerN]

As an owner of 3x VEGA64's (1x PC Red Devil, 2x GB Gaming OC), I feel AMD should be taking care of us as well, after all, if the cheaper RX4xx/RX5xx can handle it, why should the VEGA line be left out? Still, I ain't complainin' none as I'm happy with my cards, though my Red Devil does struggle a bit with newer games (@ 3440x1440).....like Metro Exodus and Gears 5.

Edit - I'll admit, however, that recently, I've been thinking of getting a Zotac RTX2080 Ti Amp Ed used at about 875USD (after conversion), only thing holding me back is the warranty issue that I'd have to verify.

AMD wont take care of its users. I dont know where this idea that "AMD cares about its users" came from, but as a reminder AMD's driver support (and before that ATIs) not only left a lot to be desired but was also ridiculously short, not only were their GPUs made legacy faster then nvidias but mainstream GPU driver releases would stop shortly thereafter. This is the same company that stopped releasing drivers for their HD6000 series 5 years after launch in 2015, while nvidia's GTX 500 series was moved to legacy support in 2018 and continued receiving security patches until january of 19. People complain about Nvidia not optimizing for previous arches, ask HD 6000, 5000, ece users how well they were treated when ATI came out with a new arch.

I own a vega 64, because it was way cheaper then a 1080 at the time, but I am under no impression AMD will take care of their GPU users. They never have historically, the only reason they did with GCN was because they were stuck with it for 6 long years with no budget to replace it.

 

[FordGT90Concept]

The fact RIS doesn't work with DX10-11 is a pretty major downer. The vast majority of the games made in the last 10 years are on that API.

 

[Athlonite]

The fact RIS doesn't work with DX10-11 is a pretty major downer. The vast majority of the games made in the last 10 years are on that API.

That's exactly what I thought to myself too when I read for DX12 only on RX5xx erm what's the point AMD you may as well just left it for Navi as a selling point

 

[HenrySomeone]

It's all fine and dandy whatever excuse AMD apologists come up with. Limited resources, less employees than even Nvidia whose primary focus is GPU (not CPU & GPU like AMD), smaller driver/software team etc. etc. It's all acceptable.

What's not is AMD belittling its high-end customers. Fury was shit, Vega was less shit but still shit. Only the most hardcore AMD fanboys would've bought these cards and now they're being shat on. Doesn't inspire confidence for their future high end offerings does it?

No it doesn't and honestly I think AMD will never again have a product at least roughly equivalent to Nvidia's flagship, they are simply too far behind in all aspects...

 

[Fluffmeister]

That's exactly what I thought to myself too when I read for DX12 only on RX5xx erm what's the point AMD you may as well just left it for Navi as a selling point

And NV's new Freestyle Sharpen works across all their GPU's across all those API's.

Digging deeper into image sharpening, we think Nvidia has the better solution overall when compared to RIS. Freestyle can achieve equivalent image quality, but it also offers an adjustable strength slider which is great for games like The Division 2 that are a bit overprocessed with default settings. You can also configure it on a game-by-game basis.

Nvidia’s solution is also much more compatible. It works with all Nvidia GPUs, and supports all modern APIs including DX11. Currently, Radeon Image Sharpening is exclusive to Navi GPUs and doesn’t support DX11. While RIS has the advantage of a lower performance impact on Navi, restricting it to newer GPUs and not supporting DX11 doesn’t make a lot of sense.

DLSS is Dead: New Nvidia Freestyle Sharpening Tested

Nvidia's latest major driver update brought with it several new features including performance enhancements, GPU integer scaling for retro games, a new ultra-low latency mode and perhaps...

www.techspot.com

 

[TheoneandonlyMrK]

And NV's new Freestyle Sharpen works across all their GPU's across all those API's.

DLSS is Dead: New Nvidia Freestyle Sharpening Tested

Nvidia's latest major driver update brought with it several new features including performance enhancements, GPU integer scaling for retro games, a new ultra-low latency mode and perhaps...

www.techspot.com

So why bring dlss out ,ask that question, exactly because it used and gave purpose to, Tensor cores in consumer.
Freestyle sharpen works without a surcharge doesn't it on multiple GPUs , it just works.
Seams a bit No Rtx = Crazy to me ie a bit daft.
Nvidia are knocking the crap out of their own selling points??
@HenrySomeone I don't think it will be just Amd selling Nvidia competitive cards in two years and i expect big navi out 2H 2020 if not sooner and it should compete with an 2080 ti since a highly clocked 5700Xt gets close in most modern and all dx12 games.

 

[Fluffmeister]

So why bring dlss out ,ask that question, exactly because it used and gave purpose to, Tensor cores in consumer.
Freestyle sharpen works without a surcharge doesn't it on multiple GPUs , it just works.
Seams a bit No Rtx = Crazy to me ie a bit daft.
Nvidia are knocking the crap out of their own selling points??
@HenrySomeone I don't think it will be just Amd selling Nvidia competitive cards in two years and i expect big navi out 2H 2020 if not sooner and it should compete with an 2080 ti since a highly clocked 5700Xt gets close in most modern and all dx12 games.

I don't care about any of that, DLSS is just something else they get to play with.

Fact is 436.02 drivers brought image sharpening and lower input lag to all their users, both were Navi selling points.

All else is tears in the rain.