AMD 7nm "Vega" by December, Not a Die-shrink of "Vega 10"

[Vya Domus]

It's doesn't replace anything, it's an addition.

 

[londiste]

It's doesn't replace anything, it's an addition.

How about generating shadow maps for example?

 

[Vya Domus]

How about generating shadow maps for example?

What about it ? It used to be you would do depth-testing with z-buffers and now you can also use rays. It doesn't replace anything.

 

[londiste]

What about it ? It used to be you would do depth-testing with z-buffers and now you can instead use rays. It doesn't replace anything.

OK, what do you mean by replacing? Do you expect a whole new paradigm of rendering? As was already said, full-on realtime raytracing is simply not viable.

You are correct, shadows, lighting, reflections, all are part of the current rendering and are all done on shader units with various cool algorithms. What is currently being done and presented as part of RTX is effectively replacing these parts of existing rendering pipeline with raytraced solutions that are capable of providing more accurate representation as well as potential performance uplift (at least in theory) by offloading some work from traditional shader units to dedicated RT/AI units.

 

[Vya Domus]

What is currently being done and presented as part of RTX is effectively replacing these parts

They wished that was the case, unfortunately it's not, it would make things completely unplayable to have all the shading be done through ray-tracing. For the time being nothing is replaced completely that's why this is an addition not a replacement and they made that pretty clear too. Z-buffering isn't going anywhere.

OK, what do you mean by replacing?

You tell me. You said it replaces things, you are going circles on your own statements.

 

[londiste]

Why would all shading have to be done through ray-tracing?

 

[Vya Domus]

Why would all shading have to be done through ray-tracing?

shadows, lighting, reflections, all are part of the current rendering ... What is currently being done and presented as part of RTX is effectively replacing these parts of existing rendering pipeline with raytraced solutions

You said it. Are you trolling or do you genuinely do not have recollection of anything you say ?

 

[Vayra86]

Why would all shading have to be done through ray-tracing?

You are guessing but you dont need to guess that RT will only add frame time compared to non RT shader action. Its blatantly obvious and because RT limits performance, those shaders wont do extra work because theyre waiting for RT calculations. Even x80ti wont alleviate that with its "10 giga rays" (still laughing at Jensen saying this btw, and a crowd buying it like candy was even more hilarious to watch.)

If you buy into this, honestly, you just dont get it.

 

[londiste]

Nevermind. I give up.

 

[lewis007]

With every passing day AMD looses relevance as a graphics company, in the mean time Nvidia will make a shit ton of money. I never thought I would find myself saying this, but Intel's line of graphics can't come soon enough.

 

[ShurikN]

I wouldn't say that. Going from 14nm to 7nm should give Vega a significant performance boost.

Vega is a lost cause for gaming at the moment, a die shrink wont make it any better. It was made for computing from the get go.
Navi on the other hand is a gaming gpu first and foremost (if the PS5 rumours are true). I wish AMD would focus on 7nm Navi for 2019 and forget about Vega/Polaris all together.
nVidia wont come out with anything interesting until the same time frame, and Turing is just a stopgap. It's nothing revolutionary like nVidia hypes it to be.

 

[Midland Dog]

im calling rip

 

[CheapMeat]

You seriously think the 2060, 2050 and whatever else are going to be as cheap as they used to be ? The massive price hike is going to trickle down to all of their products.

It's absolutely baffling that you wouldn't see this as an issue.

IF I DON'T GET MY RTX CARD I'M GOING TO LITERALLY DIE!!! REEEEEEE!!!

 

[cyneater]

Yes, all those special features, that AMD fans were screaming would save AMD. DX12, async, Mantle, vulkan, tressFX, the list goes on.

.

Vulkan when AMD fix the drivers it works on windows....
But it works on linux :S

 

[Super XP]

Many where hoping AMD to produce something good so they can go and buy cheaper Intel and Nvidia hardware. For me, I am glad to see AMD throwing R&D money where it will make money, not where people would end up laughing at it's face saying "Thank you for helping us buy cheaper products from your competitors" adding that "AMD hardware is for the poor".

It's obvious that we are in a "bulldozer" era for GPUs, so Nvidia will go unchallenged for the next 2-3 years. You want better GPUs from AMD and better competition? Support Ryzen as an option to those who ask you for a hardware advice.

The thing is AMD GPUs may be behind in performance, but in no way can they not play games.

My RX 580 plays games at 2K high setting with absolutely no issues.

Nvidia obviously has a lead in GPUs, and for good reason, that's there strength. AMD competes in a lot more segments, CPUs being the big one, over Nvidia.

Hopefully NAVI helps AMD steer in the right direction. GPUs? At least for now all they need is solid price / performance / low power draw, till there ducks get in order.

Ryzen is a beast. Threadripper was a very smart move that caught the competition by surprise. Love It.

 

[carex]

Vega is a lost cause for gaming at the moment, a die shrink wont make it any better. It was made for computing from the get go.
Navi on the other hand is a gaming gpu first and foremost (if the PS5 rumours are true). I wish AMD would focus on 7nm Navi for 2019 and forget about Vega/Polaris all together.
nVidia wont come out with anything interesting until the same time frame, and Turing is just a stopgap. It's nothing revolutionary like nVidia hypes it to be.

i strongly believe navi is similar to vega .....and there is no such thing as different gaming gpu only gaming drivers
vega for me is the backbone of all upcoming gpus as it uses infinity fabric inside in vega 56/ 64
it automatically optimise's all games for infinity fabric like crossfire ....about the power efficiency 2500u is a serious example what vega really can do
but yeah they have to use the infinity fabric outside as well otw amd will be dead

 

[Morgoth]

i hope this new vega gets a low price around 300 usd, not what nvidia is doing now.. rtx 2070 starts at 499 wtf
i mis the days when 3dfx was alive offering competition between ati,nvidia,3dfx
i hope navi puls it off
and intel gets a good enough gpu to compete in 2020 im done with these over priced products

 

[R0H1T]

With every passing day AMD looses relevance as a graphics company, in the mean time Nvidia will make a shit ton of money. I never thought I would find myself saying this, but Intel's line of graphics can't come soon enough.

As long as AMD have the consoles, which they do for the next gen, they're not getting anymore irrelevant today than they were yesterday.
It's only the marketshare that's shifting but that could change directions pretty quickly in the next year or so, as we've seen in the past or with CPUs.

 

[efikkan]

I get it "Navi" as in we will navi make this gpu available for desktop gamers, navi.

Navi is supposed to be for the PS5 I thought... so what no love for desktops?

Desktop gaming GPUs is no longer the focus for AMD, their focus is custom SOCs, and the desktop gets whatever they can easily re-purpose.

You seriously think the 2060, 2050 and whatever else are going to be as cheap as they used to be ? The massive price hike is going to trickle down to all of their products.

It's absolutely baffling that you wouldn't see this as an issue.

The price hike is quite a bit over Pascal, but not the highest we've seen (GeForce 8800 Ultra was over $1000 corrected for inflation).
Still we have to acknowledge that MSRP prices have been a little low lately, especially for AMD with expensive choices like HBM and large dies. You might remember they tried to sell Vega at $100 over MSRP, and that's probably no accident. The cost of competing is probably one of the reasons why AMD is targeting "Vega level performance" with Navi, instead of more ambitious designs. The danger is that they will soon barely have any products in even the mid-range, leaving them with the very low margin low-end market.

The thing is AMD GPUs may be behind in performance, but in no way can they not play games.

My RX 580 plays games at 2K high setting with absolutely no issues.

It's fine that you are satisfied with your investment, but that's irrelevant when it comes to the competitiveness of a product. Even with Polaris/Vega vs. Pascal, AMD have the inferior choices throughout the mid-range. Surely many will be satisfied e.g. with a RX 580, but what good is that when there are better choices?

Buyers should always go with the choice they believe to be the best deal within their budget. Even prior to Turing, Polaris/Vega is a hard sell, unless the buyer have very specific requirements. With the availability of Turing this is going to get much worse. AMD's top model Vega 64 will soon be competing with GTX 2060 at ~$300 and half the TDP. AMD simply can't make a profit then.

As long as AMD have the consoles, which they do for the next gen, they're not getting anymore irrelevant today than they were yesterday.

They are lagging further and further behind. If this continues they'll loose future console deals as well.

 

[JRMBelgium]

More then 60% of all gamers still play at 1080p. My Vega 56 runs all the latest games just fine on Ultra 60fps+. Battlefield 1 for example runs at 100+ fps with High settings and 140% resolution scale.
I've borrowed a 1080 and with my Vega 56 overclocked, we're talking about 5fps difference in BF1. So why would I need anything faster at the moment?

And it's not just me, the 1050TI and the 1060 are still the most popular graphics cards today. And AMD still has the RX 4xx and RX 5xx to compete with those cards.

The fact that AMD has nothing to compete with the 1080TI or newer just means that they have nothing in the market for the 5% of gamers who can actually afford this hardware. I think some of you are a little bit to dramatic.

I'm concinved that AMD will release a new gamers GPU next year, and I'm honestly convinced that it will only provide 1080TI performance ( perhaps a tiny bit faster ), but for 500$ and not for the crazy prices Nvidia is charging. Keep in mind that their research budget is seriously limited compared to Nvidia.

I've waited 4 years to replace my 290x for the Vega 56. And I don't mind waiting another year for the next decent upgrades. When I upgrade, I want at least 25-50% performance upgrade. I'm sticking with AMD. Not once have I ever had any hardware or software issues ( exept for a faulty driver perhaps ).

If you have a Vega 56 or 1070Ti, just wait it out and then decide if you want to upgrade to Nvidia's 2xxx or AMD's next gen. The ones that upgrade now to Nvidia 2xxx will end up paying twice the amount that the people will pay a year from now.

If there are games at the moment that can not run at 60fps ( minimum framerate ) on a Ryzen 2700x combined with a Vega 56, then it's a crappy game to begin with. Becease that hardware is more then powerfull enough for beatifull modern graphics on high framerates

 

[ppn]

I cant stand anything less than 1440p on 24".

Just cut the memory to 2048 bit and release it already.

the 27% bump in memory speed of the new HBM2 945 ->1200 Mhz. the core overclock 37% on 7nm and this baby is 4K ready. just like 1080Ti/2080

What are you waiting for AMD, tell.me

 

[efikkan]

the 27% bump in memory speed of the new HBM2 945 ->1200 Mhz. the core overclock 37% on 7nm and this baby is 4K ready. just like 1080Ti/2080

A 37% overclock would be too optimistic on a Vega 20, AMD would have to cut the fp64 support then. Still the production volume on 7nm would be very low.

 

[x86overclock]

Is "Navi" the next gaming chip, end of the line for GCN?

Yes. Because of Nvidia mainly. Nvidia does not have Asynchronous Compute hardware, instead they have their own proprietary simulated Asynch Compute instruction which is used by most game developers because they use Nvidia hardware to develop those games. When you use Nvidia hardware to develop a game you can only use "CUDA". CUDA automatically implements Nvidia optimization instructions including their proprietary simulated Asynch Compute instruction which only benefits Geforce Cards and hinders Radeon performance. Radeon's GCN relies on Microsoft DX12's Asynchronous Compute which is not implemented in 95% of games out there. The titles that do use DX12's Asynchronous Compute like Forza 7 and Wolfenstein 2 The New Colossus, Both the RX Vega 56 and RX Vega 64 surpass The Nvidia Geforce 1080ti in performance by almost 25%. Because of this AMD will not be persuing Asynchronous Compute after Navi in the gaming segment but they will keep it in the professional segment.

i hope this new vega gets a low price around 300 usd, not what nvidia is doing now.. rtx 2070 starts at 499 wtf
i mis the days when 3dfx was alive offering competition between ati,nvidia,3dfx
i hope navi puls it off
and intel gets a good enough gpu to compete in 2020 im done with these over priced products

I have confidence Intel will do an outstanding job on their discrete GPUs. But Vega 7nm won't be coming to the gaming segment as stated above. Navi 7nm will be coming to the gaming segment in 2019 and from rumors it may be appearing in the early spring.

 

[Basard]

I'm not sure what all the fuss is about with people needing to "stop buying expensive cards...." Just look at the latest steam survey ffs. Just because "nobody" is buying AMD cards doesn't mean that they aren't still using shitty cards. Hell, if not for so much overtime this year, I'd still be using a 780 that I paid $100 for from a friend. According to the survey, just over 3.5% of people are using a 1080 or 1080ti. Yeah, the world doesn't revolve around Steam, but it's a decent enough indicator.

Who knows what the hell AMD is doing.... Get some HBM onto a TR sized package, give it a single CCX (8c/16t) and a real Vega GPU. They can call it X599.

 

[x86overclock]

Yes, all those special features, that AMD fans were screaming would save AMD. DX12, async, Mantle, vulkan, tressFX, the list goes on.

Special features dont matter unless you can get most developers to use it, and only nvidia's gameworks has seen such success. For 5 years "special features" were going to be AMD's ace up their sleeve, and for 5 years Nvidia has dominated them on sales. AMD needs to focus less on special features they cant support and more on producing fast GPUs.


Performance in one application =? performance overall. You could just as easily point to nvidia's gaming performance and CUDA performance in pro applications and say "You can doubt it, but that shows how they really stack up".

Regardless of how good VEGA is (which is highly subjective based on application), VEGA was over a year late to market, power hungry, with very little OC capability, was hampered by minuscule availability and HBM production. The result was Nvidia capturing a huge portion of the market using now 2 year old GPUs because AMD never bothered to show up. You cant just leave an entire generation behind and expect people to continue supporting your brand.

AMD now considering leaving a second generation to nvidia does two things. First, it creates an even stronger idea that AMD simply cant compete on the high end, reinforcing the "mindshare" that many AMD fans are convinced exists. in reality, it is people being uncertain about investing in a brand when said brand cannot consistently show UP to compete. The second is that it gives nvidia a captive market to milk for $$$, which helps keep them economically ahead of AMD, able to make bigger investments in development of new tech, and perpetually keeping AMD in a position of catching up.

AMD is not targeting the high end market on their next gen Navi. Navi is taking the Polaris approach by selling a GPU that is equivalent to a Geforce GTX1080's performance and only charging $300 for it but that might change soon because there is going to be a big price drop on existing Geforce GTX 1000 series in order to move inventory to make room for the new RTX 2000 series.