AMD Bulldozer A Surprisingly Sell-Out Sales Success. Victims: Phenom II & Athlon II

qubit · Dec 6, 2011

nt300 said:
In the AMD FX OC'ers thread its been concluded that Bulldozer underclocks itself when under load due to AMD's application management thingy. Check it out in that thread, this could also be another issue with Bulldozer's performance.

Just imagine if all those poor benchmarks turn out to be due to a little software bug like this - it would be a sensation. Unfortunately, while there might be some truth to it, the problem would have been discovered and fixed by now, as AMD having to reduce the price on it is costing them millions.

erocker · Dec 6, 2011

qubit said:
Just imagine if all those poor benchmarks turn out to be due to a little software bug like this

It's not. On many motherboards APM can be disabled. There's no magical software fix for BD and there won't be.

qubit · Dec 6, 2011

erocker said:
It's not. On many motherboards APM can be disabled. There's no magical software fix for BD and there won't be.

I know, as I explained in the rest of my post.

ensabrenoir · Dec 6, 2011

erocker said:
It's not. On many motherboards APM can be disabled. There's no magical software fix for BD and there won't be.

Move over fountain of youth , atlantis. And. Shangerla(no spell check on not so smart phone)
There is a new quest emerging.....

THE FIX...... FOR BULLDOZER!!!!!!!!!!

TheoneandonlyMrK · Dec 6, 2011

ever the pessimists i thought a win7 patch was due im not thinking it a holy grail patch or nowt but thatll net 1-2%improvement :rolleyes:

nt300 · Dec 7, 2011

erocker said:
It's not. On many motherboards APM can be disabled. There's no magical software fix for BD and there won't be.

I am not blaming this as being the culprit with how it performs but it is something to consider because it happening right now with many users. Some motherboards you can disable this feature and others you cannot.
And yes I believe there is a fix for Bulldozer and it called Piledriver that it said to be about 20% to 30% improvement over the current FX.

Software fix? Yes the fix is when the software catches up with the hardware.
http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/cpu/display/20111026223104_AMD_Expects_Trinity_t

ffer_20_30_Performance_Increase.html

AMD projects Trinity's Piledriver x86 cores to offer up to 20% higher performance compared to Husky x86 cores inside Llano.

ensabrenoir · Dec 7, 2011

nt300 said:
I am not blaming this as being the culprit with how it performs but it is something to consider because it happening right now with many users. Some motherboards you can disable this feature and others you cannot.
And yes I believe there is a fix for Bulldozer and it called Piledriver that it said to be about 20% to 30% improvement over the current FX.

Software fix? Yes the fix is when the software catches up with the hardware.
http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/cpu/display/20111026223104_AMD_Expects_Trinity_tffer_20_30_Performance_Increase.html

Said to be 20 to 30% improvement..... amd the source.......yep totally believeble....the main question is will tjey mailing out those missing transistor to everyone who bought bd and will.Pd have ...

Not hating..... it is what it is. Its yours....enjoy it. Nothing to prove to anyone

newtekie1 · Dec 7, 2011

ensabrenoir said:
Said to be 20 to 30% improvement..... amd the source.......yep totally believeble....the main question is will tjey mailing out those missing transistor to everyone who bought bd and will.Pd have ...

Not hating..... it is what it is. Its yours....enjoy it. Nothing to prove to anyone

Aren't they the ones that said we'd get up to 50% more performance over the i7s... :laugh:

ensabrenoir · Dec 7, 2011

newtekie1 said:
aren't they the ones that said we'd get up to 50% more performance over the i7s...

.

Maybe

xenocide · Dec 7, 2011

nt300 said:
And yes I believe there is a fix for Bulldozer and it called Piledriver that it said to be about 20% to 30% improvement over the current FX.

Software fix? Yes the fix is when the software catches up with the hardware.
http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/cpu/display/20111026223104_AMD_Expects_Trinity_tffer_20_30_Performance_Increase.html

Unless I'm reading something wrong isn't that talking about the successor to Llano? NOT the successor to the FX line. That article is talking about switching Llano from K10-based architecture to Bulldozer-based architecture. Basically going from Phenom II -> FX with APU's. Going from a Phenom II X6 to an FX-6100 for example did not yield a 20% performance gain, so I wouldn't expect that to be the case for the APU's.

Your statements were rather misleading :rolleyes:

cdawall · Dec 7, 2011

newtekie1 said:
Aren't they the ones that said we'd get up to 50% more performance over the i7s...

In very very specific situations it does. Such as when the reviewer is drunk and underclocks the i7!

Damn_Smooth · Dec 7, 2011

xenocide said:
Unless I'm reading something wrong isn't that talking about the successor to Llano? NOT the successor to the FX line. That article is talking about switching Llano from K10-based architecture to Bulldozer-based architecture. Basically going from Phenom II -> FX with APU's. Going from a Phenom II X6 to an FX-6100 for example did not yield a 20% performance gain, so I wouldn't expect that to be the case for the APU's.

Your statements were rather misleading

Didn't read the article but Trinity is Piledriver based. There is no Bulldozer APU.

xenocide · Dec 7, 2011

Damn_Smooth said:
Didn't read the article but Trinity is Piledriver based. There is no Bulldozer APU.

Piledriver is based off of Enhanced Bulldozer, I was talking about the basic designs (Llano being derived from K10 and Trinity basically being derived from Bulldozer). I was even more addressing the fact that he quoted an article talking about AMD's Fusion lineup as though it were talking about their Desktop lineup. He quoted alleged performance gains out of context from a completely different platform.

TRWOV · Dec 7, 2011

Damn_Smooth said:
Didn't read the article but Trinity is Piledriver based. There is no Bulldozer APU.

Zambezi = current FX core
Piledriver = future FX core
Trinity = Piledriver APU

All of the above are based on the Bulldozer microarchitecture.

nt300 · Dec 7, 2011

xenocide said:
Unless I'm reading something wrong isn't that talking about the successor to Llano? NOT the successor to the FX line. That article is talking about switching Llano from K10-based architecture to Bulldozer-based architecture. Basically going from Phenom II -> FX with APU's. Going from a Phenom II X6 to an FX-6100 for example did not yield a 20% performance gain, so I wouldn't expect that to be the case for the APU's.

Your statements were rather misleading

After reading the information it states a 20% performance improvement with Piledriver over the current K10 being used and 30% improvement in graphics. At this point anything can happen. And ya we are talking about the Piledrive based on the desktop replacement for the current Bulldozers.

newtekie1 said:
Aren't they the ones that said we'd get up to 50% more performance over the i7s...

I think Super XP started that rumor :rolleyes:

Damn_Smooth · Dec 7, 2011

xenocide said:
Piledriver is based off of Enhanced Bulldozer, I was talking about the basic designs (Llano being derived from K10 and Trinity basically being derived from Bulldozer). I was even more addressing the fact that he quoted an article talking about AMD's Fusion lineup as though it were talking about their Desktop lineup. He quoted alleged performance gains out of context from a completely different platform.

I see. I thought you meant 1st gen.

TRWOV said:
Zambezi = current FX core
Piledriver = future FX core
Trinity = Piledriver APU

All of the above are based on the Bulldozer microarchitecture.

Yes, I know. Gave up caring a while ago though.

MasterCATZ · Feb 1, 2012

I just had to post in this

I was an AMD Fan and been trying to get back from Evil intel
hell AMD are who made it possible for me to be able to afford to upgrade

( pretty much I jumped off the boat when Intel did their first Great CPU I bought 16x Intel® Core™2 Duo packages for my Internet Gaming Cafe and after what must now be 4~5 yrs they still run everything ) I used to upgrade at least 1/4 ly only upgrades have been yearly V cards ( until the Nvidia 260's they still run everything )

also been holding back because I never liked Nvidia always was a Voodoo person

with my personal PC's every Intel after my p100 was a fail and the AMD's rocked until I got my hands on the Intel® Core™2 Duo's

hoping this upgrades going to be like when I left k6-500 for a Duron 600 .. God that thing hammered for its 100 mhz Difference

I have been holding back for these bulldozers as long as I can as much as the i5's keep tempting me ,
I no longer play many games any more and really wanting a Trinity as much as I want 8x cores for my Video encoding / Trans-coding
I am wanting to use as little power as possible for my Final All In One rig

Currently switched 99% from M$ Windows and Using FreeBSD that does Every Thing I need ( ZFS Raidz for file server , Virtual Box Server and media player with wine running all my windows apps flawlessly )

plus it actually gets better FPS then any Game I had installed via Windows ... ( BETTER MEMORY MANAGEMENT ?? )

I know the Bulldozer cores use around 80 watts idle vs intel 50 watts idle but I am hoping the AMD 4 core Trinity will be around the 50 watt mark as well
( making up in the power loss with integrated GPU vs using up another PCI-e slot for a video card that could be hosting another HBA Raid Controller

Really Sucked how the 4 and 8 core Bulldozers had the same idle power usage

however it looks like my AIO upgrades going to be rushed now with all the 10-bit multimedia coming out ( my little ATOM ION media player can not do them so time to use it as a carputer has finally came , File server can not Transcode 1080p 10-bit Live )

Yo_Wattup · Feb 1, 2012

PaNiC said:
fanboys are retards, they buy a bad product just because they don't like other company. The bulldozer will make more AMD fanboys then ever be for cause that's how fanboys starts, they buy a bad product, defend it and hate the other company for releasing something better.

+1

Fx said:
does being a loyal fan to AMD because Intel uses shady practices make me a fanboy? if so, I guess I can live with that. but if that is so then I can think of lots of names to call Intel fanboys...

I guess having morals costs me to miss out on some performance- I can live with that just fine. furthermore, it is because of AMD fanboys that AMD has stayed afloat all of these years which has influenced your precious Intel to keep it's ASPs much lower for the majority of their chips

I get disgusted with people with no backbone

There's plenty of 'shady' companies we still transact with, ever used a bank? A lawyer? YOU THEREFORE DON'T HAVE MORALS! Apparently.

Truth is your teeny-weeny $200 purchase from the other company won't do jack shit to either company. Only loser there is you. I'll buy whatever has the greatest performance per dollar and right now it's intel. Rational thinking FTW. :pimp:

edgedemon · Feb 1, 2012

MasterCATZ said:
I just had to post in this

I was an AMD Fan and been trying to get back from Evil intel
hell AMD are who made it possible for me to be able to afford to upgrade

I have always bought AMD as they offered a half decent price vs performance point, my first cpu was the K6-2 series. I have now switched to X79 i7 3930K, as I was waiting for bulldozer and decided that I couldn't wait for piledriver to hopefully improve things.

Bulldozers failure is bad for all of us, as Intel can keep prices high and release crippled chips as top end as there is no competition. If bulldozer had been competitive, we would be seeing 8 core chips in SB-E.
So I decided to spend lots of cash on a PC that will hopefully last me 5 yrs and by then Im hoping that we have some competition again

Super XP · Feb 8, 2012

Bulldozer is not a failure. They are selling like hot cakes. The only problem was retailers were selling them for a lot more than AMD's recommended price.

Bulldozer was super hyped by AMD and people. So long as the price is right, it's a winner for now. After most of the fixes, we all hope the Piledriver will indeed be approx: 25% to 30% faster than the current Phenom II's.

xenocide · Feb 8, 2012

Super XP said:
Bulldozer is not a failure. They are selling like hot cakes. The only problem was retailers were selling them for a lot more than AMD's recommended price.

Bulldozer was super hyped by AMD and people. So long as the price is right, it's a winner for now. After most of the fixes, we all hope the Piledriver will indeed be approx: 25% to 30% faster than the current Phenom II's.

Pentium 4's sold great, must have been a tremendous product.

qubit · Feb 8, 2012

Super XP said:
Bulldozer is not a failure. They are selling like hot cakes. The only problem was retailers were selling them for a lot more than AMD's recommended price.

Bulldozer was super hyped by AMD and people. So long as the price is right, it's a winner for now. After most of the fixes, we all hope the Piledriver will indeed be approx: 25% to 30% faster than the current Phenom II's.

I couldn't agree more. The only thing that defines a product as a success or failure is how well it sells, not its technical merits. Seems a shame, but that's the way it is.

xenocide · Feb 8, 2012

qubit said:
I couldn't agree more. The only thing that defines a product as a success or failure is how well it sells, not its technical merits. Seems a shame, but that's the way it is.

And Bulldozer is selling for the same reason Pentium 4 did. People look at it and go "HOLY CRAP 8 CORES!?!?" and are willing to throw money down, when P4 was around people were blown away by 3Ghz clock speeds and just assumed it was so much faster. Keep in mind yield was also a huge reason why Bulldozer (just like Llano) seemed to be in such short supply.

MarcusTaz · Feb 8, 2012

Anyone hear about the new BD going up for sale?

http://www.cpu-world.com//news_2012/2012020101_Pre-order_prices_for_upcoming_AMD_FX_CPUs.html

Are they refreshes or just new skus

TRWOV · Feb 8, 2012

I'd say they are higher binned CPUs, not sure about new stepping. The 8150WOX it's just the water cooling version.

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Memory	16GB (2 x 8GB Corsair Vengeance Black DDR3 PC3-12800 C9 1600MHz)
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AMD Bulldozer A Surprisingly Sell-Out Sales Success. Victims: Phenom II & Athlon II

qubit

Overclocked quantum bit

erocker

*

qubit

Overclocked quantum bit

ensabrenoir

TheoneandonlyMrK

nt300

ensabrenoir

newtekie1

Semi-Retired Folder

ensabrenoir

xenocide

cdawall

where the hell are my stars

Damn_Smooth

xenocide

TRWOV

nt300

Damn_Smooth

MasterCATZ

New Member

Yo_Wattup

New Member

edgedemon

New Member

Super XP

xenocide

qubit

Overclocked quantum bit

xenocide

MarcusTaz

TRWOV

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