amd dual core 3800+ or e6300 for gaming

[t260g]

i want to build a gaming computer (who doesnt) and ive decided to go spend less money on the whole computer a gfx card (x1950pro) so when i upgrade to dx10 cards,i wont feel like i wasted money. the whole computer would cost around $700-$750. then in like a year ill get a dx10 card for like $400 and it will be good then. im not goign to do any crossfire, just one card. so im not going to waste money on a crossfire mobo

so, about the processor, i can get a socket AM2 dual core 3800+ windsor for $109:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16819103733

an then the mobo is like $80

or i can get a e6300 for like $180 and a decent mobo for $100+

both of these processors can overclock esily, ill probably do that

what i want to do is buy cheap for now, upgrade later when dx10 is popular. so, id like to know if that dual core 3800+ is good for gaming... for now. i like the AM2, because i know they will continue making better processors on it and ill be able to upgrade from there later. is the core2duo the processing god? or should i stick with the cheaper AMD? is the performance in games worth the high cost?

 

[ktr]

we can all say and more-or-less confirm that the 6300 will burn the 3800...

 

[randomperson21]

we can all say and more-or-less confirm that the 6300 will burn the 3800...

i concur...
the c2d will smoke the 3800+. plus, the c2d o/c's better.

 

[dino25]

c2d will for shure burn 3800+...but for the price and gaming with good VGA you dont need more..only if you are rich..

 

[Alec§taar]

we can all say and more-or-less confirm that the 6300 will burn the 3800...

Agreed, "110%" - were I going to buy NEW today? I would go INTEL, & THAT CPU specifically... best "bang-for-the-buck" imo.

I saw what Tigger did in the ScienceMark 2.0 competition here w/ one, & it astounded me (then again, he seems to really know what he's doing w/ INTEL stuff o/c'ing it too - perhaps NOT 'average results' on his part either!)

APK

 

[technicks]

Alec.

What would be the best value for money if sticking to 939? Opteron or a 4000 series dual core? I don't want to buy a new board also.

But if i had the right board i would for sure go for the e6300.

Thanks.

 

[t260g]

yeah, all im worried about is performance in games... like, 3dmark06 scores and fps in games. does a e6300 really effect that all that much?dx10 cards are all about the graphics cards because its designed to take less processing off the cpu... and put it in the gfx, which is why im waiting to get a $400 dx10 card. im also looking for future upgrades in the cpu, i think amd will get better lol or so i hope

 

[Alec§taar]

Alec.

What would be the best value for money if sticking to 939? Opteron or a 4000 series dual core? I don't want to buy a new board also.

Thanks.

Using the results from our ScienceMark 2.0 competition here? Opteron most likely... it knocked myself & others (usually) out of the ballpark, often not by HUGE amounts, but it usually would (folks like myself who are on socket 939 & using X2 series AMD cpu's).

It's a better CPU apparently than X2 by AMD, but not by 'huge' amounts either.

Still - If I had known about them @ the time of my purchase, I would have gotten one (I think this mobo CAN take one that I have, but not sure, but the % of increase over x2 is NOT the same as you'd see if you went INTEL CoreDuo/Core2Duo etc.)... I just wasn't aware of them @ that time.

Money - it's always a stumbling block, & having to spend on a new mobo is tough. I don't like advising folks on that subject, one way OR another - after all, it's THEIR MONEY!

I have a good friend who's always putting me in that position: Money, vs. Performance. I tell him "it's your money, I can only show you various tests folks I know have run that I have participated in, to extoll ANY (if any) relevant performance boosts over that which you have, now"...

And, because he's a good friend, I try to help him out, because he has helped me out in diff. stuff too, but on spending his money? I tell him "hold off" for now, because new things always come out, that drive down the costs of TODAY's "cutting edge/state-of-the-art" stuff.

I can't make decisions for someone there, it wouldn't be right. Plus, I am a rank amateur imo, when it comes to today's hardwares. I don't 'stress' keeping up on ALL of its details/permutations. BUT, I can take a look @ & participate in tests of varying kinds (ScienceMark, AquaMark, & SuperPi are 3 I took part in here) to see what it is that I have & see how well it does do against more current new stuff, & then, I decide if the % boost of increase is enough to justify a new purchase.

I haven't seen ENOUGH of that yet, but INTEL's latest stuff? It DOES come close, especially when overclocked (amazing gains).

I can only say, I only buy when I am "flush" w/ cash, so it does NOT cut into more pressing/immediate/necessary things I have to pay off (food, gas, bills, etc.).

APK

 

[t260g]

c2d will for shure burn 3800+...but for the price and gaming with good VGA you dont need more..only if you are rich..

yeah that is what im thinking, its more about a good gfx card for dx10, not a really good cpu that will effect fps go for the gfx first for gaming

 

[Deleted member 24505]

thanks for the comments alec that means a lot to me coming from you.


i cant recommend the 6300 enuf,as far as i'm concerned,buy a cheap chip,clock tho bejesus out of it,then when newer ones come out,you dont lose loads of dosh changing it.

and i spent ages testing and testing my chip,i really could do with some faster mem(8500+) and some h20.

 

[t260g]

what does all this oc with e6300 do to 3dmark06?

 

[Alec§taar]

thanks for the comments alec that means a lot to me coming from you.

You EARNED them...

(I had the VERY BEST HELP a guy could get here on these forums o/c'ing my rig, & you STILL got the better of me (Hector vs. Achilles, lol) though it was a somewhat "protracted battle" on both our parts (friendly competition is more like it)).

APK

 

[Deleted member 24505]

@t260g,i think it does a lot,at 3.5ghz my cpu score on 3d06 is 2800ish,look at the cpu scores on the amd clockers thread.it also certainly put my score up,from 4500ish to 5300.

 

[t260g]

that is what ive been debating... will the processor be such a big factor for performance for dx10? or is it the gfx card?

http://xtreview.com/review159.htm

seems that teh card does more work than cpu due to the reduced processor load of DirectX 10

 

[trt740]

if your not overclocking it the e6300 is not that much faster if at all on stock (non of the core duo chip are at stock )plus remember new ram is very expensive. If I was looking to just build a gaming machine a 3800x2 is plenty fast and also considering nothing uses dual core you may see even less a difference when you do. The e6300 is a great chip but is not really all that much faster at factory stock if you have a 939 chip set buy a Opty 165 you will see almost no real world difference especially since nothing uses a dual core chip yet so even the true potential of the Pent D dual cores and Amd 64 dual cores haven't been used. I see almost zero difference running my Opty 185 at 3.1 ghz and running my 3800x2 at 2.0ghz during game play. If you are burning a cd the difference can be measured in seconds between the e6300 and 3800x2 . If your upgrading to have fast bench marks and over clocking then get the intel chip, or if your building a new system but if your doing it only to upgrade an existing computer its a waste of money get a Opty 165 or if your wanting to save big time get a 4000+ single core and oc it to 3.1 ghz. They can be had for less than 80.00 dollars new and are fx 53 chips. Also no dual core chip when programming is written for them will bottle neck any of the existing GPUs remember to play games smoothly you only need about 25 frames per second constantly. TV is 23 frames a second

 

[t260g]

youve made the most sence so far trt740

ty...

am i right about the dx10 stuff? cause, i think its better to have mediocre processor with a pwnage dx10 ...

yeah, the pc i want to build has 2gb ram
ive heard something about am2 dual core 3800+s needing ddr800 RAm, not ddr667 or lower... anyone know about that?

 

[trt740]

Well the Dx 10 cards are kinda a waste for now . Remember the old 6800 cards were the first 3.0 cards and when all was said and done were unable to really run it very well. If you buy a 8800gts for shader 3.0 and value they are a good buy and do like dual core better than single core. They are going for as low as 280.00 dollars . Think of the cpu thing like this a AMD 64 x2 is lightning fast and a Core Duo is lightning fast plus 30 percent their both still lightning fast right!!! By the time there potential is used we will be on quad core. Also on the video game front only 4 games even use shader 3.0 and none use dx10 and none use dual core really.

 

[Tatty_Two]

Alec.

What would be the best value for money if sticking to 939? Opteron or a 4000 series dual core? I don't want to buy a new board also.

But if i had the right board i would for sure go for the e6300.

Thanks.

My name is not Alec, but I can recommend the Opty 170 x2 with good stepping, just got mine, cool as a cucumber at 3Gig, very impressed, not as fast in raw speed as my 4000 but hey......it's got the cores and the cache!!

 

[trt740]

don't upgrade from 939 to am2 that even a bigger waste of money

 

[trt740]

Tatty It would be faster If both cores were used to their full potential but for now it's not much faster.

 

[Tatty_Two]

youve made the most sence so far trt740

ty...

am i right about the dx10 stuff? cause, i think its better to have mediocre processor with a pwnage dx10 ...

yeah, the pc i want to build has 2gb ram
ive heard something about am2 dual core 3800+s needing ddr800 RAm, not ddr667 or lower... anyone know about that?

No it isnt, unfortunatly to get the best out of the powerful DX10 cards your going to need a fairly powerful CPU, if for example you had an 8800GTX and a 3800 x2 at 2.7Gig I would estimate you would only be getting about 70% of the full potential of the card as there would at times be some heavy CPU bottlenecking, if you think about that, then it makes sense to just get the 8800GTS as you will be wasting less $ on the bottlenecking.

 

[trt740]

No way .When both core are Optomized in a game it won't bottle neck that chip unless your saying the difference between 60 fps and 110 is gonna be noticable by the human eye. For benchmarking you will notice it but not for the real world gaming , and by the time you do notice it we will be 3 generations a head in video cards and cpus. Also take my opinion with a grain of salt Tatty taught me alot about this stuff and just because I don't agree doesn't mean I'm right. He also knows alot more about over clocking than I do.

 

[t260g]

yeah, im going to use the msi x1950pro ($156) for a year or two then upgrade to a dx10 card so i can play games again lol.

 

[Alec§taar]

that is what ive been debating... will the processor be such a big factor for performance for dx10? or is it the gfx card?

http://xtreview.com/review159.htm

seems that teh card does more work than cpu due to the reduced processor load of DirectX 10

My take on this is this:

For gaming? You need games like Quake 4 SMP 1.13 to take advantage of dualcore technology...

Problem is, not many of them out there @ present. Maybe 2-3, but I am only a user of 1 of them!

(Yes, IDSoftware 'fanboy' here, as much as I could be a fanboy I suppose of anybody else - I admire John Carmack's abilities is why, just like I would anyone else whom I feel is my superior in a particular area... I don't know the man personally, but know his accomplishments in this field, & even if the guy was someone I didn't personally "mesh" with? I'd still respect him for his work!).



Ah, anyhow...

(& that multithreaded/smp-ready gain largely really works best @ 'relatively speaking', "LOWER" resolutions, ala 640x480 - 1024x768... IDSoftware's Quake 4 SMP showed up to 87% GAINS in that range... less in higher ones, but the gains/benefit are STILL present, nevertheless! This starts to show you, where the CPU does a bigger part of the work, & where it begins to be LESS, even w/ multithreaded/SMP-ready code that takes advantage of multiple CPU cores!)

* SO, that all said: For higher resolution gaming (over those ranges I stated above) especially, the graphics board takes over most of the chores, multithreaded/smp-ready or not in the game, & w/ MOST of today's game @ least, they are not coded, thus...

APK

P.S.=> Mussels here has a "rule" I tend to adhere to, after YEARS of being caught in what I call "the upgrade trap": Only buy ALL NEW, if you see double the power of your previous rig... I only buy, like w/ cars, every 4-5 yrs... & I SEE THAT LEVEL OF GAIN, 2 machines in a row now. If you upgrade though (& I am 'weak' on Mussel's rule, in graphics boards only because I like to game as much as the next guy), see @ LEAST 50% gain over the particular piece of hardware you are replacing via upgrade... not worth it otherwise, imo @ least! apk

 

[trt740]

If your going to build a Am2 rig thats a waste then build a Core duo system, but if you have a 939 system now keep it. I not sure I made that clear.