AMD Duron multiplier settings

[trodas]

Guys, since I discover a bug in mainboard, that crash down the FSB to 33MHz, then it making that mobo ideal to do some very slow runs

Now the weakest CPU I managed to source is a Duron 750. That is 100 x 7.5.
When it is 33 x 7.5 ( 248 - 262MHz ), then it is still too "fast" (SuperPi 32M 8h).
http://valid.canardpc.com/evdcpe

So I looked at how can I lower the "high" x7.5 multiplier. The solution looks obvious: connect all the four L1 bridges to get multiplier unlocked Duron. So I did that today with conductive paint by this guide:
http://www.ocinside.de/go_d.html?ht...d.html&usg=ALkJrhgFicC6QnLDdYiJzx32ObTgfnt_Dw

I was sucesfull I think, because on JetWay V266B mainboard I managed it to work well. (there are 5 switches that allow me to change the multiplier from x5 to x12.5) running at default, at x5, at x5.5 (with FSB 133) and x6... (x8 the CPU did not make, quite poor overclocker (!) but whatever)

Then I moved to the target board (MSI 6340) and after inserting the CPU, there is nothing new in bios - eg. no multiplier select table, nothing like that at all. Suxx!

Yet I was ready for this eventuality and with the unlocked multi I wanted to force the multiplier down to x5 by wires from the bottom side of the CPU around the pins, by this guide:
http://www.ocinside.de/go_d.html?ht...d.html&usg=ALkJrhgfaKJz4biu1Us66eSygvAftUhGWg

And that is, where I hit the wall. The MSI 6340 refuse to post and it make me wonder, if the multipliers are any different between the Duron and the awailable settings for CPU's - AMD T-Bred, AMD Barton and AMD Athlon XP.
I think not (there is no way or reason why they should be any different and even the interactive pin guide show no sign of and change between the CPU's as far, as the multipliers go) but the MSI 6340 is not posting now. Not a beep, just fans on, but that it is.

Anyone have clue about what is going on? I go to check the wires under the CPU and if they are fine... then perhaps test with the JetWay V266B, if there the enforced x5 multi will work...
Ideas welcomed.

Or the KT133 cannot work with x5 multiplier?

 

[trodas]

So I'm confused, why it does not want to work.

I tried this - since the MSI 6340 is obviously no-go, then I look at my wiring job and find out that there are few bad wires making contact where they should not (used too much wire, mostly, even is the size of hair, there is still too much for 4 threads around these pins, I suggest 2 max and end in middle of these), so I fixed this and tried again. Again no go. So I get worried if I did not blow up something and did another test - back to the JetWay V266B, that worked. Now it does not. No way to post...
I was clueless, but then I tried something that is quite interesting - instead of having the multipliers set to auto, I tried set them directly to x5 multi, as I believe I had already set in the wires bellow the CPU. SURPRISE, it posted and even worked fine at multi x5 ...! WTF!!!
So I tried x5.5 - worked again, but at x5 settings. Then I tried x6 or even auto again, but none works. So as long, as I set by manual anything x5 multi (x5, x5.5) it work fine in the JetWay V266B mobo. Hmmm.
That is NOT what I was hoping for when I connected the L1 bridges! I hoped I can set any multi I want and force it by wires! Obviously this is not true...
Could someone tell me why?

And one more interesting thing - on post, the Duron 750 is reporting itself as Duron 1400. No kidding. x5 or x5.5 settings, always Duron 1400
(I never knew I could upgrade Duron 750 to Duron 1400 just by few wires... but it work as 500MHz, so, slow, lol)

It just make me think, what is MSI 6340 try to run it at 1400MHz settings? Eg. it is obvious, that the mainboards probably go for the fastest multi (when multipliers are free) and ignore my wires. What should I do?! I hope not what I think - eg. change the L4 and L6 bridges... I did not exactly want permamently x5 multi. That is why (damn!) I was connecting the L1 brigdes, so I can choose what multiplier I want.
And upon adding the wires is worked (on mobo, that allow the multipier changes, that it is) ... Help, anyone?

As far, as the x5 multi goes, well, there it is:

CPU-Z Validator 4.0

 

[kn00tcn]

this is pretty awesome, you'll do some other benchmarks? (i'm thinking windows boot, x264, cinebench haha)

 

[trodas]

If anything like that can run on Win2k, then why not? Currently wPrime 1024M test is running, SuperPi 32M test passed But I tried even higher FSB and it partly can work at 160MHz FSB

But my major problem is, how to force the x5 multiplier when settings are AUTO. That would help me out on the MSI 6340 mobo to gain the x5 setting...

Did I use right settings for this x5 multi wires?

http://www.ocinside.de/html/workshop/pinmod/amd_pinmod.html

 

[Solaris17]

I think its because the memory cannot go lower can you up it? if you can keep the mem freq from dropping below 100 you might be able to

 

[Bones]

So I'm confused, why it does not want to work.

I tried this - since the MSI 6340 is obviously no-go, then I look at my wiring job and find out that there are few bad wires making contact where they should not (used too much wire, mostly, even is the size of hair, there is still too much for 4 threads around these pins, I suggest 2 max and end in middle of these), so I fixed this and tried again. Again no go. So I get worried if I did not blow up something and did another test - back to the JetWay V266B, that worked. Now it does not. No way to post...
I was clueless, but then I tried something that is quite interesting - instead of having the multipliers set to auto, I tried set them directly to x5 multi, as I believe I had already set in the wires bellow the CPU. SURPRISE, it posted and even worked fine at multi x5 ...! WTF!!!
So I tried x5.5 - worked again, but at x5 settings. Then I tried x6 or even auto again, but none works. So as long, as I set by manual anything x5 multi (x5, x5.5) it work fine in the JetWay V266B mobo. Hmmm.
That is NOT what I was hoping for when I connected the L1 bridges! I hoped I can set any multi I want and force it by wires! Obviously this is not true...
Could someone tell me why?

And one more interesting thing - on post, the Duron 750 is reporting itself as Duron 1400. No kidding. x5 or x5.5 settings, always Duron 1400
(I never knew I could upgrade Duron 750 to Duron 1400 just by few wires... but it work as 500MHz, so, slow, lol)

It just make me think, what is MSI 6340 try to run it at 1400MHz settings? Eg. it is obvious, that the mainboards probably go for the fastest multi (when multipliers are free) and ignore my wires. What should I do?! I hope not what I think - eg. change the L4 and L6 bridges... I did not exactly want permamently x5 multi. That is why (damn!) I was connecting the L1 brigdes, so I can choose what multiplier I want.
And upon adding the wires is worked (on mobo, that allow the multipier changes, that it is) ... Help, anyone?

As far, as the x5 multi goes, well, there it is:

CPU-Z Validator 4.0

I can't answer everthing here but one thing I do know is that sometimes with Socket A the board's BIOS will not ID the chip correctly if you use certain multis and bus speeds when setting things up in the BIOS. Socket A systems can't ID chips like newer systems can and the BIOS will judge what it is based on your settings.
For example I can take my XP 3200 - 200FSB chip and simply change the bus settings to 166 instead of it's stock 200 setting and it shows up as a XP 2500 in the BIOS and CPU-Z. The XP 2500 has the same default multi (11x) but a lower default bus speed (166). Now I know you're thinking about how does it know the difference between a 200FSB XP 3200 vs a 166FBS XP 3200 and the difference is the 166 version has a default 14x multi with a default 166FSB speed.
Chances are it will never correctly ID the chip simply because of this and the BIOS is doing what it's supposed to be doing based on the info it has BUT it cannot "Guess" what it is so it just goes with what it knows.

 

[Solaris17]

I can't answer everthing here but one thing I do know is that sometimes with Socket A the board's BIOS will not ID the chip correctly if you use certain multis and bus speeds when setting things up in the BIOS. Socket A systems can't ID chips like newer systems can and the BIOS will judge what it is based on your settings.
For example I can take my XP 3200 - 200FSB chip and simply change the bus settings to 166 instead of it's stock 200 setting and it shows up as a XP 2500 in the BIOS and CPU-Z. The XP 2500 has the same default multi (11x) but a lower default bus speed (166). Now I know you're thinking about how does it know the difference between a 200FSB XP 3200 vs a 166FBS XP 3200 and the difference is the 166 version has a default 14x multi with a default 166FSB speed.
Chances are it will never correctly ID the chip simply because of this and the BIOS is doing what it's supposed to be doing based on the info it has BUT it cannot "Guess" what it is so it just goes with what it knows.

this socket A boards judge the chip by hard coded speed afaik the boards (except maybe extreme high end) didnt pull info from the CPUID

 

[trodas]

Bones - that seems to be right at the spot, because when I run the chip and 100x5, it reports as "Duron 1400"
Since Duron 750 WR in OC is like 1370-something MHz, I wanted to claim WR, but they obviously did not fall for it as HWbot I make it fun from start to end and the CPU-Z report correct COU and speed:

I can run at 100x5 easily - 500MHz AMD Duron 750:
http://valid.canardpc.com/tzu5v3

...but that is only when I switch the switches on the mainboard to the x5 multiplier on the Jetway V266B. If these switches are left on auto (as are on the target MSI 6340), it just did not post. Anyone have any ideas why this is happening and how to fix it?


Solaris17 - I did not pretend that the board detect the CPU well in any way, shape or form, but I did not care as long, as it post My question is, why it does not post (MSI 6340 as well, as Jetway V266B) when L1 bridges are closed.
To me it looks like that I must set some default multiplier, but when I set it with the wires, it was still not good for the MSI and V266B ignored it as long, as the settings I use on switches are x5 or x5.5. If I used x6 or x6.5 or anything else, then it did not post, when the wires are present. W/O it (as it is now) it won't post at all with the MSI 6340 and require multiplier switches setting on V266B.
REQUIRE to post.
When used any other locked CPU, then it does post w/o fuss with the AUTO settings on the switches. But unlocked Duron + auto switches = no post.

I did not understand

 

[Bones]

Bones - that seems to be right at the spot, because when I run the chip and 100x5, it reports as "Duron 1400"
Since Duron 750 WR in OC is like 1370-something MHz, I wanted to claim WR, but they obviously did not fall for it as HWbot I make it fun from start to end and the CPU-Z report correct COU and speed:

I can run at 100x5 easily - 500MHz AMD Duron 750:
http://valid.canardpc.com/tzu5v3

...but that is only when I switch the switches on the mainboard to the x5 multiplier on the Jetway V266B. If these switches are left on auto (as are on the target MSI 6340), it just did not post. Anyone have any ideas why this is happening and how to fix it?


Solaris17 - I did not pretend that the board detect the CPU well in any way, shape or form, but I did not care as long, as it post My question is, why it does not post (MSI 6340 as well, as Jetway V266B) when L1 bridges are closed.
To me it looks like that I must set some default multiplier, but when I set it with the wires, it was still not good for the MSI and V266B ignored it as long, as the settings I use on switches are x5 or x5.5. If I used x6 or x6.5 or anything else, then it did not post, when the wires are present. W/O it (as it is now) it won't post at all with the MSI 6340 and require multiplier switches setting on V266B.
REQUIRE to post.
When used any other locked CPU, then it does post w/o fuss with the AUTO settings on the switches. But unlocked Duron + auto switches = no post.

I did not understand

It will probrably take a BIOS mod to make it work correctly - If one exists for that board.
Most likely the board "as is" when you try it with all settings in "Auto" is getting confused and doesn't know what to do with it. Not all boards can successfully run bridge/pin modded CPU's. NF2 chipped boards ignore these mods and do not apply the modded settings or just not work at all, they will work however with VIA and SiS chipped boards.

Check around and see if you can find a modded BIOS for the board you have and if you find one, try it. I'd also make a backup of the BIOS you currently have just in case. I will say this, I cannot suggest doing a BIOS mod lightly, it's up to you to decide whether to try it or not since there is a bit of risk involved with trying one.
Some BIOS modded files aren't all that and a few are screwed up too, some don't work correctly or at all and there's even been a few modders that botched things when they did the mod to the point you can't flash it out once it's in the BIOS chip to restore the original BIOS file, as in you're stuck with it unless you replace the BIOS chip itself.

 

[trodas]

Looks like not even on the OC inside forum anyone can help me to understand what is going on:

http://www.forum-inside.de/cgi-bin/forum/topic.cgi?forum=14&topic=214

That is sad

And yes, it looks like the mobo is pretty confused, so to say at least. The question is - could this can be fixed with some bios update (no more recent bios is available for any of these two mainboards) and who can inject the more recent AMD CPUs support into the existing bioses? I cannot do that, I never did THAT hard bios mod at all I heard about it, know a guy who did it for ABit board for Intel, but that it is.

There is - to my best knowledge - no moded bios either for Jetway V266B, not for the MSI 6340 mainboard.
I asked about some mods to be done to them there:
http://www.bios-mods.com/forum/Thread-MSI-6340-CPU-support
http://www.bios-mods.com/forum/Thread-Oldie-AwardBIOS-120G-mod-possible
and
http://forums.mydigitallife.info/threads/51068-AMD-Duron-multiplier-settings
...but as you can see, no help or interest at all. So I'm stuck there. Maybe I could try the unlocked Duron 750 in Jetway V600DAP mobo. That could let me see, if there is a mobo, where it can at AUTO work... or maybe again, nope. Dunno.

As for the moded bioses could go wrong - well, I'm avare of this, but none of the bios is available, so, not need to worry right now