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AMD May Have Won the Hardware Battle at E3 But Most Games Embraced NVIDIA RTX: Cyberpunk 2077, Watch Dogs Legion, Call of Duty and More

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A very odd and specific number. Care to share your sample size with us? Your relationship with the samples you polled? Or just some magical rainbow number farted out of a unicorn? Anyone can pull these type of shit:

Oh 96% of my people I have talked to actually prefer physics based light reflection rendering over pre-baked "fake" lighting. Ha! 1% more than yours.


BS and trash-talking does nothing. Real time ray tracing is the more relaisitic approach for rendering 3D scenes. In the past the technology was restricted by limitation in computation power. Now hardwares are getting closer to solve that problem and it will be the natural progression to abandon pre-baked lightings.



Take a look at this new article. Back in the good old ATi Radeon 4800 days they were already talking about Ray-Tracing.

lol you thought I was making a scientific factual statement with that number... and yeah a few of my buddies with rtx 2080 ti's and 21:9 high refresh monitors have told me during metro exodus and such they prefer the higher frames and smooth action to ray tracing being on. /shrug I don't care if you enable ray tracing, do it, enjoy it bro. i won't be doing so, I prefer extra smoothness, maximum smoothness.
 
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lol you thought I was making a scientific factual statement with that number... and yeah a few of my buddies with rtx 2080 ti's and 21:9 high refresh monitors have told me during metro exodus and such they prefer the higher frames and smooth action to ray tracing being on. /shrug I don't care if you enable ray tracing, do it, enjoy it bro. i won't be doing so, I prefer extra smoothness, maximum smoothness.

But wouldn’t it be better if you can have both? Butter smooth framerate AND better rendering?


Oh wait, that is the whole point of technology progressing! It is all about going forward not backwards!

Sarcasm aside, it definitely wont happen at current gen GPU and current gen rendering engines. At least it is a good direction. So in the future instead of just focusing on raising resolution to 8K60fps we can hope for 4K high fidelity Ray Tracing 60fps

Out of how many total HPCs? US? Whole world?

We can cherry picking all day long. As someone works in academia right now, Nvidia’s hardware and software solution in GPU accelerated computing still dominates.

EPYC is gaining momentum, Radeon still has a very long way to go in server.
 
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But wouldn’t it be better if you can have both? Butter smooth framerate AND better rendering?


Oh wait, that is the whole point of technology progressing! It is all about going forward not backwards!

Sarcasm aside, it definitely wont happen at current gen GPU and current gen rendering engines. At least it is a good direction. So in the future instead of just focusing on raising resolution to 8K60fps we can hope for 4K high fidelity Ray Tracing 60fps
We will see, Physx looked greated too, and no one is using it anymore. Call me skeptical. I hope you are correct.
 
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Sarcasm aside, it definitely wont happen at current gen GPU and current gen rendering engines. At least it is a good direction. So in the future instead of just focusing on raising resolution to 8K60fps we can hope for 4K high fidelity Ray Tracing 60fps
You can hope but it's a lot easier to market a console or TV to the general public public that does 8k @ 60FPS then one that does 4k @ 120fps with ray tracing.
 
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You can hope but it's a lot easier to market a console or TV to the general public public that does 8k @ 60FPS then one that does 4k @ 120fps with ray tracing.
Leave it to the marketing team to try. SONY is already doing Ray Tracing is PS5 with RDNA2
 
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I have to admit, I hope Sony can pull off games in the 85-120hz fps range, new consoles will be supporting freesync i am certain as well. i would prefer 4k 120hz over 8k 60hz. i really hope sony can do it
 
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I have to admit, I hope Sony can pull off games in the 85-120hz fps range, new consoles will be supporting freesync i am certain as well. i would prefer 4k 120hz over 8k 60hz. i really hope sony can do it

SONY is in its own league of pushing the envelope of new consumer tech, in a good way.

While everyone (mainly old timer “monitor” only pc users) claimed VR is dead, SONY sold 4.2million PSVR and successfully pushed the VR industry forward. I have little doubt that SONY’s capability in pushing RTRT into mainstream console. And hey, maybe when consoles have good RTRT or VR it will convince those old timer pc users to be more open to new technology.



 
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Leave it to the marketing team to try. SONY is already doing Ray Tracing is PS5 with RDNA2
True, but they are also touting "8k support" which my motherboard also "supports" although I don't think iGPU will be doing Metro Exodus at 8k.

As long as ray tracing won't be a major hit on FPS and/or resolution I'm sure some games will support it on the PS5.
 
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True, but they are also touting "8k support" which my motherboard also "supports" although I don't think iGPU will be doing Metro Exodus at 8k.

As long as ray tracing won't be a major hit on FPS and/or resolution I'm sure some games will support it on the PS5.
they probably know indie games will only do 8k 30. they are focused on 4k 60 i have doubt but giving developers room for 120 with variable refresh its a good strategy imo
 
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I've said it a million times before, when someone implements RT-RT that actually makes something look more realistic instead of extra shiny; I will become interested. The reflections are excellent but again they tend to be massively exaggerated versus real life. I'm not sure if this is on the developer side, overdoing things to look more impressive or is this what basic RT is limited to...
 
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I want to be open to VR tech but it's damn expensive and not very mature.

I've said it a million times before, when someone implements RT-RT that actually makes something look more realistic instead of extra shiny; I will become interested. The reflections are excellent but again they tend to be massively exaggerated versus real life. I'm not sure if this is on the developer side, overdoing things to look more impressive or is this what basic RT is limited to...
Metro does it pretty well - you can actually use the lighting to know enemy positions and you do notice the shadows being thrown accurately - to the point that now I actually play with ultra RT and DLSS turned on (makes the far textures look low rez) but i really do prefer the high FPS (avg 92ish @3440x1440) & RT vs crispy textures on everything. In a game where staying in the dark is part of game-play RT does add quite a bit to the experience.

Quake RTX i think is just a demo of just how shiny they can make everything. Want a shotgun made of mirrors you say? DONE. Mirror water too? DONE!
 
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Metro does it pretty well - you can actually use the lighting to know enemy positions and you do notice the shadows being thrown accurately - to the point that now I actually play with ultra RT and DLSS turned on (makes the far textures look low rez) but i really do prefer the high FPS (avg 92ish @3440x1440) & RT vs crispy textures on everything. In a game where staying in the dark is part of game-play RT does add quite a bit to the experience.

Quake RTX i think is just a demo of just how shiny they can make everything. Want a shotgun made of mirrors you say? DONE. Mirror water too? DONE!
As compared to BF5, Metro Exodus is light years better but it is still a mixed bag IMO. For a 15%+ performance hit, I expect more. Nvidia has been one continuous disappointment for a few years now. From predatory business practices to price gouging, it's obvious they don't get along with Apple because they are too much alike.
 
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the term "price gouging" applied to toys sounds hilarious.
 
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Yep Nvidia are used for far more serious high performance computation,

Does this tit for tat stuff help , see Rohits reply. I
Was replying with facts to tukker Carlson ,I did try and ignore you but your still here trying to push Nvidias image , odd.
Almost like you two are trolling but cant be that eh.
 
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they probably know indie games will only do 8k 30. they are focused on 4k 60 i have doubt but giving developers room for 120 with variable refresh its a good strategy imo
They are not getting 4k @ 60FPS. The hardware needed for that doesn't match the console price point. The Nvidia 1070ti will do Metro Exodus at medium settings 4K @ 30FPS and the Xbox and PS5 GPU will be in the same ballpark graphic wise as the 1070ti. If those consoles are doing 60FPS on a AAA game it's probably @ 1440p. Similar to how the current crop of consoles tries to pass off 900p in difficult games as 1080p.

 
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One man's toy is frequently another man's tool and vice-versa...
is it really that frequent when it comes to graphics cards?
 
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is it really that frequent when it comes to graphics cards?
Absolutely, basically all CAD/CAM software, AI, data mining, product and material simulation, video compression and editing, the list goes on and on. Hell even Photoshop has GPU acceleration. There are of course professional series products for all these scenarios but in some cases the consumer products marketed at gaming are just as, if not more effective. Price gouging in a legal sense(at least in the US) really only applies to necessities but by definition price gouging is charging more than what is reasonable and/or ethical and does not differentiate based on necessity. Is charging $1200 for a video card price gouging? Hard to say without knowing the margins on it but it certainly doesn't seem reasonable.
 

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Leave it to the marketing team to try. SONY is already doing Ray Tracing is PS5 with RDNA2
Just because it is supported by the platform doesn't mean many (any?) games will use it. Using RTRT is going to make passing validation (minimum framerate target) difficult. At the most, it will be used for global illumination in not-so busy areas of the virtual world where their processing budget can handle it. In other words, window dressing. Like HairWorks. Like GPU accelerated PhysX.

They are not getting 4k @ 60FPS. The hardware needed for that doesn't match the console price point. The Nvidia 1070ti will do Metro Exodus at medium settings 4K @ 30FPS and the Xbox and PS5 GPU will be in the same ballpark graphic wise as the 1070ti. If those consoles are doing 60FPS on a AAA game it's probably @ 1440p. Similar to how the current crop of consoles tries to pass off 900p in difficult games as 1080p.

Metro Exodus only does global illumination RTRT; hence, being able to do it on midrange hardware. Again, this is an extra layer of expense for developers so the vast majority won't do it.
 
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Translation: eight developers were given RTX cards on the condition that they add RTX features to their games. Hardly anyone asked for it yet, development resources are wasted on it in the name of promoting NVIDIA brands. Meanwhile, the vast majority of gamers won't use it because their GPU can't handle it. Remember HairWorks in Witcher 3? History repeats.
I’m just wondering how long before it will become affordable for decent results. GPUs already carry a huge transistor budget, so adding RT just balloons that even further. GPU makers cant afford to sell large chips for low margins, and it sounds like RT will take even more transistors before it becomes “worth it.” So they need to add transistors and sell it for less to gain adoption. What process node will be the golden ticket for gamers? 5nm?
 
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They are not getting 4k @ 60FPS. The hardware needed for that doesn't match the console price point. The Nvidia 1070ti will do Metro Exodus at medium settings 4K @ 30FPS and the Xbox and PS5 GPU will be in the same ballpark graphic wise as the 1070ti. If those consoles are doing 60FPS on a AAA game it's probably @ 1440p. Similar to how the current crop of consoles tries to pass off 900p in difficult games as 1080p.

consoles are completely different than pc's.... ps5 will very much hit 4k at 60 fps. why am I explaining this close to 2020...
 
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Just because it is supported by the platform doesn't mean many (any?) games will use it. Using RTRT is going to make passing validation (minimum framerate target) difficult. At the most, it will be used for global illumination in not-so busy areas of the virtual world where their processing budget can handle it. In other words, window dressing. Like HairWorks. Like GPU accelerated PhysX.


Metro Exodus only does global illumination RTRT; hence, being able to do it on midrange hardware. Again, this is an extra layer of expense for developers so the vast majority won't do it.
Goal,, Like 8K 120Hz? i mean I don't know how, even Csgo seams like a dream IMHO, I wouldn't mind seeing that though.

4K 60Hz is doable for me right now on a Vega64 with compromises, so PS5 should be fine in 2020, but Not full scene path tracing ;), and it is clear there has been more work done by Intel And AMD on raytracing then Nvidia would have you believe.

Of note is how few of the features, each RTX feature game actually uses, do any use all?, does quake II?

My pipe dream is for a Caustic RAYCASTER Accelerator to turn up out some companies! ;) ass that pans the crap out of that task alone(Rays), that's obviously £20, and pciex4.

I thought little of high Hz until i tried it, same as 4k and a decent monitor, could be RTX changes the game, but I can't see it beating out the desire for high hz and high resolutions, so like 3dvission and PhysX they will need to expand its use quickly.

given the price of 7Nm , And the Long-lived nature of it, I will be surprised if anyone can make a GPU that can push full AAA games at 4K 60hz and Fps synced or not, with full path tracing of all lights in the next 3 years Tbh.

@dirtyferret , you realize most PC games are slightly fudged with 1080p render scales for efficiency, some like GtaV allow frame scaling so you can see 4 K correctly
 
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Those things are not mutually exclusive, though. 4k is going to be the standard for some time -- much like 1080P; and I would wager that we are 2 graphics generations away from being able to comfortably drive 4K with RT enabled at the high end, and 3 generations away to where mid-range cards could do it. The next gen of consoles are all going to have RT, which means, unlike hairworks -- it will have mass adoption fairly quickly.
Which totally flips the premise of this Forum. AMD's new generation of GPUs (Navi) has no trouble with ray tracing using shaders. nVidia saves power by rasterizing early. That made adding ray tracing support somewhat complex. AMD's Next Gen GPUs which will be in the next generation consoles will add additional hardware for ray tracing.

So will developers use nVidia ray tracing? No. Will game developers use the Microsoft API for Ray Tracing? Sure on DirectX games. Vulkan programmers will use Open GL. Game Developer's Tools API developers don't have to think about how ray tracing works, they just have to provide the calls with appropriate parameters. In a complete tool stack, nVidia command line options will result in nVidia specific calls, if that is what you want. But in reality we are talking a few microseconds for the calls, up to hundreds of microseconds to pass the calls to the graphics card--graphics calls get big--that was a big driver in developing Vulkan, which started out as Mantle, an AMD close-to-the metal language.

So what does AMD have to do to provide ray tracing support? As anyone who was looking would have noticed, not very much. The Green Team needed to make Ray Tracing work with their rasterized graphics. nVidia saves lots of watts with that rasterization, so it is nice that they can make it work with ray tracing. I hope it still saves as many watts...

I need to get into the gory details to explain what is going on. Ignore ray tracing and have illumination sources without reflections. You need to take the RGB values (or CMYK or whatever) for the source, calculate the effective distance to the target, then multiply the light source color values, multiply them time the target color values, and add to the register for that target pixel. GPUs were developed to do just that. If you add ray tracing right, some lights will bounce multiple times before reaching some targets. You only need to update the distance traveled for each bounce. The light won't change color in route. Then you do the normal shading using the summed ray traced illumination. Specular (mirror-like) reflections need a different route, and you may find out you have a mirror to deal with halfway through. More work, but not a timing issue. Computing the lighting, then the reflections works, but yes you have to do the mirror twice (or more).

So what is AMD planning to do in their Next Gen GPUs? Special hardware to deal with distances, instead of 'wasting' some of the compute power of the shaders which tend to work with (three) RBG values, not one distance value. Eventually you do have to split those numbers and eventually integrate with the normal image data. Will this save a few watts while ray tracing? Sure. Will it make it any faster than current graphics? Not really, but... The calculations needed for each point are known. But if you have more shaders, you can process more points in parallel. So this may speed up ray tracing a bit. What about nVidia? When they came out with their fancy ray tracing cards, they got hit with a wet fish. Yes, it works, and yes, the images are cleaner than with today's (non-ray tracing) technology. But to get the better images you have to do more calculations. The algorithms have been pounded on for forty or fifty years. Initially to get a single frame image complete before you fell asleep. (Yes, I can remember half-hour plus ray tracing times when I was a young programmer.)

So if you want to turn ray tracing on in some game with an AMD GPU, go ahead. It has been part of the DirectX interface for ages. Well, it seems like ages to me. Anyway, if ray tracing does become a big thing in the next few years, it won't affect the relative positions of AMD and nVidia. AMD may make cards that run 4K60 with ray tracing, and at that time nVidia will be selling cards to do 8k144 with ray tracing--that no users buy. But graphics developers will be a big enough market. Well, add seismic data processing. Processing the data is one thing, and increasing resolution by a factor of two means about 10 times the CPU crunching. For decades, run the best that you can overnight, and if it is promising take a week or more to get better results. They won't need the real-time game graphics, but they do want to be able to turn the (3d) representation of the oil field this way and that. They quickly adopted 4k when it came out, and I had to have it for home. (And a Vega 64 card for under $400. Couldn't turn that down.)
 
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Pascal takes a beating from DXR but at least Nvidia gives their customers the option, we can only assume AMD will be adding DXR/Vulkan support soon.

I suspect they are like the Labour party in the UK, it's easy to criticize when they haven't really stood up to be counted.
 
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